It seems pretty unambiguous to me that OP is specifically referring to levels.
I prefer to immerse myself in the game. Its the experience for me, not how quickly I can max out. I do understand that for some folks the need to rush to end game content is important. So maybe to accomodate different types of players the speed that we level our characters should be kept to a not too fast pace but offer some kind xp potion that will enable others to get there faster. That way it's up to us to play the way we want to. Also having the option to turn off XP gain completely would be a benefit especialy if you're wanting to finish exploring a certain lower level area without out leveling it.
Trasak said: Yes, the OP did phrase the post as a question of levels but from a game design and long term game play perspective leveling speed is a small slice of the whole picture.
While true, that has nothing to do with this thread.
charmad said:Also having the option to turn off XP gain completely would be a benefit especialy if you're wanting to finish exploring a certain lower level area without out leveling it.
I like it. Instant extension of content. Unsure how often it would be used (especially if players can delevel themselves using the mentor system) but it is on the right track.
philo said:charmad said:Also having the option to turn off XP gain completely would be a benefit especialy if you're wanting to finish exploring a certain lower level area without out leveling it.
I like it. Instant extension of content. Unsure how often it would be used (especially if players can delevel themselves using the mentor system) but it is on the right track.
In EQ, I used to push my AA slider up really, really high when I didn't want to outlevel something I hadn't finished yet.
In EQ2 I would turn EXP gain off completely for similar reasons.
So, all that is to say, a big +1 to charmad's idea from me. If content is going to be level-banded, or "gray out", then let us control when that happens.
Yea EQ 2's ability to turn off xp gain was exactly what I was referring to. There are just some areas that require more time, or a zone I enjoy spending the time in but is not as much fun when you outlevel them. Mentoring is helpful, but when mentored you're still OP for that area and it defeats the purpose to be able to just stroll through it with no effort.
charmad said:...maybe to accomodate different types of players the speed that we level our characters should be kept to a not too fast pace but offer some kind xp potion that will enable others to get there faster. That way it's up to us to play the way we want to...
This seems to be a slippery slope towards a game that attempts to appease everyone. What I want to see is a steep leveling curve. Those that want to race to max level and "end game" content, will do so regardless if it takes them 3 months or 5 months to get there. Having a magic potion or activated ability that changes your experience gain from 100% to 500% (or any other number) just because a player wants to level faster seems counter to the feel of this game.
charmad said:Mentoring is helpful, but when mentored you're still OP for that area and it defeats the purpose to be able to just stroll through it with no effort.
I don't think that is how this mentor system will work. You simply delevel yourself to a lower lvl so you can play through lower lvl content at the correct lvl range. (stats etc. will scale down).
Hopefully there will be so many systems to work on, you won't need to worry about max level. And if the game is fun to play, then the leveling will take care of itself. Ideally, for me, I would like to see a game designed to last for years and years. A game that can become a hobby. So my vote would be for a world so complex and entertaining that maxxing everything out would take at least a decade.
philo said:charmad said:Mentoring is helpful, but when mentored you're still OP for that area and it defeats the purpose to be able to just stroll through it with no effort.
I don't think that is how this mentor system will work. You simply delevel yourself to a lower lvl so you can play through lower lvl content at the correct lvl range. (stats etc. will scale down).
I would hope that would be the case, it would give that opportunity to experience a lower level that you missed or enjoyed enough to go back and complete or relive.
Liav said:Trasak said: Yes, the OP did phrase the post as a question of levels but from a game design and long term game play perspective leveling speed is a small slice of the whole picture.While true, that has nothing to do with this thread.
Actually looking back at the first post level is not mentioned at all so I believe that puts the full scope of my question as to what is Max is valid per the post. Many other posters only focused on pure levels but max is a very different thing from maximum character level.
Trasak said:Actually looking back at the first post level is not mentioned at all so I believe that puts the full scope of my question as to what is Max is valid per the post. Many other posters only focused on pure levels but max is a very different thing from maximum character level.
The word "level" or some variation of it is mentioned exactly four times in the OP. Like I said, it is not ambiguous what was meant by OP.
I did indeed mean level.
We have all heard people say that "The game begins at max level" for MMO's. I sort of think that MMO's "begin to end at max level" for a lot of players as they no longer have the expectation of another level to play for (the ding is a mighty thing) - and so it then comes down to what other things they can do / like to do, and does the game provide enough of that something to keep them around until new content is delivered by the developers.
To that extent, I personally believe taking a very long time (50 - 60 days played which would take an average player the better part of a year to a year) is a good thing for all of the reasons I mentioned in my first post.
I went and re-watched one of the three hour videos today, and while I wasn't looking for this, they specifically mentioned that levelling would *NOT* be fast. In addition content would be mixed in zones where high level mobs would be in the same areas ass low level mobs in some cases.
They also discussed the mentoring aspect, and yes, you will be de-levelled in order to mentor people.
Liav said:Kalok said:I went and re-watched one of the three hour videos today, and while I wasn't looking for this, they specifically mentioned that levelling would *NOT* be fast.
Fast is relative. :D
I thiink those in the "I will be max level in a couple of months..." camp are going to be sorely disappointed based on what they were sayiing.
Depends. If it takes the average player a year, the hardest of hardcore will easily be max level in a couple of months.
Note that I'm using "average" in a literal sense. The level of efficiency the most dedicated players can achieve relative to the average is not to be underestimated.
Liav said:Depends. If it takes the average player a year, the hardest of hardcore will easily be max level in a couple of months.
Note that I'm using "average" in a literal sense. The level of efficiency the most dedicated players can achieve relative to the average is not to be underestimated.
We'll see how well that works out for them.
Oh yeah. As a side note, they also mentioned Epic Quests not just for class defining weapons, but also class defining abilities and other things. Which sounds super cool.
Kalok said:Liav said:Depends. If it takes the average player a year, the hardest of hardcore will easily be max level in a couple of months.
Note that I'm using "average" in a literal sense. The level of efficiency the most dedicated players can achieve relative to the average is not to be underestimated.
We'll see how well that works out for them.
I don't really understand the meaning of this post. Are you saying that you don't believe extremely hardcore players have incredible efficiency over the baseline?
Liav said:Kalok said:Liav said:Depends. If it takes the average player a year, the hardest of hardcore will easily be max level in a couple of months.
Note that I'm using "average" in a literal sense. The level of efficiency the most dedicated players can achieve relative to the average is not to be underestimated.
We'll see how well that works out for them.
I don't really understand the meaning of this post. Are you saying that you don't believe extremely hardcore players have incredible efficiency over the baseline?
No. I'm saying that I don't think that "being extremely hardcore" or "being incredibly efficient" is going to get them there in a couple of months.
It's safe to say that some people will do all they can do in order to be "first" - in fact... given that a selling point of the game is that it should take a long time, I'm sure there will be folks out there who take it upon themselves to prove they can reach max in a ridiculously low amount of time.
I wouldn't even be surprised if some group or other set up a rotation of players to level a set of avatars 24 hours a day. I've seen such happen more than a few times in MMO's.