They've never put a number on the ratio... that's really the community trying to communicate the idea in a more "succinct" manner. Also, if you consider crafting/trading/exploration as a solo/small group type content then the ratios are much different, so mostly we're talking about combat driven content with that ratio.
As far as the "contested" raid discussion, one thing they've mentioned that will alleviate a lot of this is the amount of content available at end-game. In most games you have only a few targets that are a top priority and so they implement instancing to allow for large numbers of players. Having more targets, more spread out, with slower travelling and levelling and that will alleviate a large amount of the "contested" raid issue. Sure they'll still have to work out the details around who gets the kill and such, but if we're not all competing over the same 2 or 3 spawns that will help immensely.
NoobieDoo said:Cromulent said:My biggest question about the improvement system is will crafters be able to improve NO DROP loot and if so how will that work if the other player has already looted it? Hopefully some system will be put in place that will allow NO DROP loot to be improved and I'll certainly be looking out for more information on that side of things.
If eventually crafters are able to enhance/enchant no drop raid items this is what I would like to see.
First, I'd like to see the possibility of learning every single crafting type require so much time that only the seriously dedicated players be able to obtain mastery in all categories. Not only would I like to see depth in PRFs crafting system I'd also like for players to not be able master every craft easily. I don't like the idea of handcuffing players to only being able to master one craft like some games do but I think it would go a long way for giving the ability to enhance no drop raid items. Why?
Because I'd like to see enhancing no drop raid items be left to the owner of the item them self. Instead of temporarily giving someone else your no drop item for them to enhance the only way to enhance the item is to do it yourself. So if players are only able to master one craft (or not master every craft) or it is very hard to master all the crafts then this would create a good balance and not make the crafter too powerful. Unless you spend the time. It would also create a lane for players to really think before they begin their crafting career. A warrior could master blacksmithing and be able to eventually enhance all of their blacksmithing no drop raid items. OR to make it even more strategic the warrior would have to master weapon smithing and ultimately be able to enhance their no drop raid weapons. Or armor smithing and be able to enhance armor. etc etc And obviously all no drop items could be enhanced not just raid items.
Couple this with giving crafters the ability to craft items equal in power to raid drops and I think crafters could have a very prominent role within the 'end game' gear scene. Being able to enhance their own items would just be the cherry on top for having spent so much time in crafting and would also give every player a giant reason to begin crafting in the first place.
Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. I missed this thread for a couple of weeks.
Interesting idea requiring everyone to master crafting if they want to improve their NO DROP gear. I'm not sure how I feel about that. When I was thinking about crafting I kind of saw it as its own independent sphere within the game and in order to get to the highest levels of crafting it would require the same amount of time and skill as becoming a high end raider for instance. That would instantly mean that most people who are just casual crafters in games like EQ would be disqualified and not able to reach the highest levels so requiring people to improve their own NO DROP items would mean that high end raiders would be required to be high end crafters as well.
I was thinking more along the lines of everyone can do something to a reasonable level but you can only do one thing at the ultra high level tier so players would have to make a choice. Do they want to be a ultra high end crafter, raider or grouper? And that decision would stick with that character for the rest of the time the player was playing that character. If they wanted to do something else at the ultra high end they would have to level a new character.
Not sure what you think about that? But that is the way I've been thinking recently.
Cromulent said:NoobieDoo said:Cromulent said:My biggest question about the improvement system is will crafters be able to improve NO DROP loot and if so how will that work if the other player has already looted it? Hopefully some system will be put in place that will allow NO DROP loot to be improved and I'll certainly be looking out for more information on that side of things.
If eventually crafters are able to enhance/enchant no drop raid items this is what I would like to see.
First, I'd like to see the possibility of learning every single crafting type require so much time that only the seriously dedicated players be able to obtain mastery in all categories. Not only would I like to see depth in PRFs crafting system I'd also like for players to not be able master every craft easily. I don't like the idea of handcuffing players to only being able to master one craft like some games do but I think it would go a long way for giving the ability to enhance no drop raid items. Why?
Because I'd like to see enhancing no drop raid items be left to the owner of the item them self. Instead of temporarily giving someone else your no drop item for them to enhance the only way to enhance the item is to do it yourself. So if players are only able to master one craft (or not master every craft) or it is very hard to master all the crafts then this would create a good balance and not make the crafter too powerful. Unless you spend the time. It would also create a lane for players to really think before they begin their crafting career. A warrior could master blacksmithing and be able to eventually enhance all of their blacksmithing no drop raid items. OR to make it even more strategic the warrior would have to master weapon smithing and ultimately be able to enhance their no drop raid weapons. Or armor smithing and be able to enhance armor. etc etc And obviously all no drop items could be enhanced not just raid items.
Couple this with giving crafters the ability to craft items equal in power to raid drops and I think crafters could have a very prominent role within the 'end game' gear scene. Being able to enhance their own items would just be the cherry on top for having spent so much time in crafting and would also give every player a giant reason to begin crafting in the first place.
Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. I missed this thread for a couple of weeks.
Interesting idea requiring everyone to master crafting if they want to improve their NO DROP gear. I'm not sure how I feel about that. When I was thinking about crafting I kind of saw it as its own independent sphere within the game and in order to get to the highest levels of crafting it would require the same amount of time and skill as becoming a high end raider for instance. That would instantly mean that most people who are just casual crafters in games like EQ would be disqualified and not able to reach the highest levels so requiring people to improve their own NO DROP items would mean that high end raiders would be required to be high end crafters as well.
I was thinking more along the lines of everyone can do something to a reasonable level but you can only do one thing at the ultra high level tier so players would have to make a choice. Do they want to be a ultra high end crafter, raider or grouper? And that decision would stick with that character for the rest of the time the player was playing that character. If they wanted to do something else at the ultra high end they would have to level a new character.
Not sure what you think about that? But that is the way I've been thinking recently.
I like this idea and I was sorta thinking along the same lines. Each crafter would have to choose from out of all the tradeskills and choose one that they wanted to master. Where one of the benefits to this mastered tradeskill would be them obtaining the ability to enhance/enchant/upgrade their no drop items of that particular type.
I went with my version simply because I feel Pantheon won't go that route with crafting. I think a player may be able to craft their entire time like they could in VG but just like VG I don't think the game will be designed where any benefit will be gained from strictly being a crafter. Nor do I think crafting will be so involved and/or so in depth that a player would have to dedicate their entire game time devoted to crafting.
There is at least one MMO coming soon treating crafters like this which is called Saga of Lucimia where crafting will be its own sphere and/or endeavor. It seems players will have to choose between being a fighter type player ie. warrior, cleric, wizard or being a crafter type class ie. blacksmith, weaponsmith, leatherworker. Basically the idea is that groups will have situations where they will need to bring along these players who are stictly crafters. I think this is a great idea, but I also don't think Pantheon will go this route. But obviously it is still very early so who knows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDjFkvG0RZQ
I like the vanguard idea where the raid mob once killed is then ghosted to all that killed it for a certain number of days, but re-spawns almost instantly. This would allow attempts to be made by another guild/organization- that would also suffer he same ghosted lock out once defeated. Those who succeed- win. Those who lose, don't and are encouraged to become better players.
Interestingly, I see the competition then turning to a matched sprint racing type event (linked) where the top guilds are surrounding the spawned raid mob- ensuring no one, not even themselves, get a chance at the encounter.
(the broadcasters should really be acknowledged for their coverage of this sporting event)
NoobieDoo said:Cromulent said:NoobieDoo said:Cromulent said:My biggest question about the improvement system is will crafters be able to improve NO DROP loot and if so how will that work if the other player has already looted it? Hopefully some system will be put in place that will allow NO DROP loot to be improved and I'll certainly be looking out for more information on that side of things.
If eventually crafters are able to enhance/enchant no drop raid items this is what I would like to see.
First, I'd like to see the possibility of learning every single crafting type require so much time that only the seriously dedicated players be able to obtain mastery in all categories. Not only would I like to see depth in PRFs crafting system I'd also like for players to not be able master every craft easily. I don't like the idea of handcuffing players to only being able to master one craft like some games do but I think it would go a long way for giving the ability to enhance no drop raid items. Why?
Because I'd like to see enhancing no drop raid items be left to the owner of the item them self. Instead of temporarily giving someone else your no drop item for them to enhance the only way to enhance the item is to do it yourself. So if players are only able to master one craft (or not master every craft) or it is very hard to master all the crafts then this would create a good balance and not make the crafter too powerful. Unless you spend the time. It would also create a lane for players to really think before they begin their crafting career. A warrior could master blacksmithing and be able to eventually enhance all of their blacksmithing no drop raid items. OR to make it even more strategic the warrior would have to master weapon smithing and ultimately be able to enhance their no drop raid weapons. Or armor smithing and be able to enhance armor. etc etc And obviously all no drop items could be enhanced not just raid items.
Couple this with giving crafters the ability to craft items equal in power to raid drops and I think crafters could have a very prominent role within the 'end game' gear scene. Being able to enhance their own items would just be the cherry on top for having spent so much time in crafting and would also give every player a giant reason to begin crafting in the first place.
Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. I missed this thread for a couple of weeks.
Interesting idea requiring everyone to master crafting if they want to improve their NO DROP gear. I'm not sure how I feel about that. When I was thinking about crafting I kind of saw it as its own independent sphere within the game and in order to get to the highest levels of crafting it would require the same amount of time and skill as becoming a high end raider for instance. That would instantly mean that most people who are just casual crafters in games like EQ would be disqualified and not able to reach the highest levels so requiring people to improve their own NO DROP items would mean that high end raiders would be required to be high end crafters as well.
I was thinking more along the lines of everyone can do something to a reasonable level but you can only do one thing at the ultra high level tier so players would have to make a choice. Do they want to be a ultra high end crafter, raider or grouper? And that decision would stick with that character for the rest of the time the player was playing that character. If they wanted to do something else at the ultra high end they would have to level a new character.
Not sure what you think about that? But that is the way I've been thinking recently.
I like this idea and I was sorta thinking along the same lines. Each crafter would have to choose from out of all the tradeskills and choose one that they wanted to master. Where one of the benefits to this mastered tradeskill would be them obtaining the ability to enhance/enchant/upgrade their no drop items of that particular type.
I went with my version simply because I feel Pantheon won't go that route with crafting. I think a player may be able to craft their entire time like they could in VG but just like VG I don't think the game will be designed where any benefit will be gained from strictly being a crafter. Nor do I think crafting will be so involved and/or so in depth that a player would have to dedicate their entire game time devoted to crafting.
There is at least one MMO coming soon treating crafters like this which is called Saga of Lucimia where crafting will be its own sphere and/or endeavor. It seems players will have to choose between being a fighter type player ie. warrior, cleric, wizard or being a crafter type class ie. blacksmith, weaponsmith, leatherworker. Basically the idea is that groups will have situations where they will need to bring along these players who are stictly crafters. I think this is a great idea, but I also don't think Pantheon will go this route. But obviously it is still very early so who knows.
In EQ2's later years, they introduced consignment crafting, which allowed crafters and their clients to open a special window where the client would place a no-trade item (like their Epic Weapon) and components/payment for the crafter to alter with their skills. They both had to be present for the crafting action to take place, but it allowed crafters to improve the weapons that were bound to the other character. The Wizard Epic requires this specifically. I think some later Heritage Quest items may as well. You could use it for regular crafting as well, if you were willing to gather the resources yourself and wait the few minutes it took the crafter to combine them.
I think something like this is a good way to keep the crafting community relevant with the adventuring community. Even if the item is no-drop/no-trade, allow some way for the crafters to collaborate with the item holder to improve them. That way, if you don't want to craft to improve your own stuff, you can find someone and pay them to do it with you.
NoobieDoo said:Cromulent said:NoobieDoo said:Cromulent said:My biggest question about the improvement system is will crafters be able to improve NO DROP loot and if so how will that work if the other player has already looted it? Hopefully some system will be put in place that will allow NO DROP loot to be improved and I'll certainly be looking out for more information on that side of things.
If eventually crafters are able to enhance/enchant no drop raid items this is what I would like to see.
First, I'd like to see the possibility of learning every single crafting type require so much time that only the seriously dedicated players be able to obtain mastery in all categories. Not only would I like to see depth in PRFs crafting system I'd also like for players to not be able master every craft easily. I don't like the idea of handcuffing players to only being able to master one craft like some games do but I think it would go a long way for giving the ability to enhance no drop raid items. Why?
Because I'd like to see enhancing no drop raid items be left to the owner of the item them self. Instead of temporarily giving someone else your no drop item for them to enhance the only way to enhance the item is to do it yourself. So if players are only able to master one craft (or not master every craft) or it is very hard to master all the crafts then this would create a good balance and not make the crafter too powerful. Unless you spend the time. It would also create a lane for players to really think before they begin their crafting career. A warrior could master blacksmithing and be able to eventually enhance all of their blacksmithing no drop raid items. OR to make it even more strategic the warrior would have to master weapon smithing and ultimately be able to enhance their no drop raid weapons. Or armor smithing and be able to enhance armor. etc etc And obviously all no drop items could be enhanced not just raid items.
Couple this with giving crafters the ability to craft items equal in power to raid drops and I think crafters could have a very prominent role within the 'end game' gear scene. Being able to enhance their own items would just be the cherry on top for having spent so much time in crafting and would also give every player a giant reason to begin crafting in the first place.
Sorry it has taken me so long to reply. I missed this thread for a couple of weeks.
Interesting idea requiring everyone to master crafting if they want to improve their NO DROP gear. I'm not sure how I feel about that. When I was thinking about crafting I kind of saw it as its own independent sphere within the game and in order to get to the highest levels of crafting it would require the same amount of time and skill as becoming a high end raider for instance. That would instantly mean that most people who are just casual crafters in games like EQ would be disqualified and not able to reach the highest levels so requiring people to improve their own NO DROP items would mean that high end raiders would be required to be high end crafters as well.
I was thinking more along the lines of everyone can do something to a reasonable level but you can only do one thing at the ultra high level tier so players would have to make a choice. Do they want to be a ultra high end crafter, raider or grouper? And that decision would stick with that character for the rest of the time the player was playing that character. If they wanted to do something else at the ultra high end they would have to level a new character.
Not sure what you think about that? But that is the way I've been thinking recently.
I like this idea and I was sorta thinking along the same lines. Each crafter would have to choose from out of all the tradeskills and choose one that they wanted to master. Where one of the benefits to this mastered tradeskill would be them obtaining the ability to enhance/enchant/upgrade their no drop items of that particular type.
I went with my version simply because I feel Pantheon won't go that route with crafting. I think a player may be able to craft their entire time like they could in VG but just like VG I don't think the game will be designed where any benefit will be gained from strictly being a crafter. Nor do I think crafting will be so involved and/or so in depth that a player would have to dedicate their entire game time devoted to crafting.
There is at least one MMO coming soon treating crafters like this which is called Saga of Lucimia where crafting will be its own sphere and/or endeavor. It seems players will have to choose between being a fighter type player ie. warrior, cleric, wizard or being a crafter type class ie. blacksmith, weaponsmith, leatherworker. Basically the idea is that groups will have situations where they will need to bring along these players who are stictly crafters. I think this is a great idea, but I also don't think Pantheon will go this route. But obviously it is still very early so who knows.
I'll be interested to hear more about which direction Pantheon goes with the whole grouping / raiding / crafting thing. Talking about myself personally here I'd like to be able to pick either of those options and know that I'll be needed by other players. There is nothing more depressing than spending a long time working on one sphere only to find out that no one wants you are that there is so much competition on your server that your skills are worthless. I feel like every player should be desired for at least something. Afterall this is meant to be a community game and being required by someone is what brings the community together. If players think they can do everything on their own then they won't need to interact with other players and that would have a negative impact on the community.
I'm pretty confident that this is the way the devs are going but until we have some more information on crafting it is going to be hard to work out whether a player could be 100% dedicated to crafting. In most games it is perfectly possible to be a full time grouper or a full time raider but in most of the games I've played 100% dedicated crafters are very rare and I'd like to see that change.
Cromulent said:...
I'm pretty confident that this is the way the devs are going but until we have some more information on crafting it is going to be hard to work out whether a player could be 100% dedicated to crafting. In most games it is perfectly possible to be a full time grouper or a full time raider but in most of the games I've played 100% dedicated crafters are very rare and I'd like to see that change.
I'd really like to see this too. Would have to make crafting quite interesting for this to happen, and that's only a good thing.
Cromulent said:I'm pretty confident that this is the way the devs are going but until we have some more information on crafting it is going to be hard to work out whether a player could be 100% dedicated to crafting. In most games it is perfectly possible to be a full time grouper or a full time raider but in most of the games I've played 100% dedicated crafters are very rare and I'd like to see that change.
I agree and I would like to see it too. My only concern would be that a lot of players like to do both(all); they like to be a full-time grouper/raider, as well as crafting. So if a game such as Pantheon designs the game where crafting is so involved and so in depth that to progress to the highest echelons of crafting the player would have to forego fighting monsters altogether (grouping/solo/raiding) then I think a lot of people would be bummed. And I think being bummed would be valid too because crafting has always been something a player could do outside of their grouping. Crafting gave players somethig to do when they didn't have time to group or raid. So while I'd like to see an MMO push the boundaries here I think it is also a tight rope they would have to walk because it is super important to create things for players to do (like crafting or fishing or personal housing etc) when they are alone or just when they don't have time to group or raid.
I would be fine having to choose which "sphere" I majored in, but if raiding was considered a "sphere" there would need to be ample raid content to choose from. I don't think it would be fair to make people choose between majoring in grouping or raiding if there is 5x as much group content as there is raid content. Ultimately, I think it would be ideal if we could master all spheres ... grouping, raiding, crafting, diplomacy (if/when it's implemented) and so on. I am a huge fan of progression. I don't need a giant achievement book that tracks everything but I would definitely like to play in a world where there is always an area to improve my character. Hopefully the faction system is super deep because I see a ton of long-term potential when it comes to faction. There could be a remote tribe somewhere that is rather difficult to obtain faction with but they offer some sort of unique trinket or piece of resist jewelry with an acclimation bonus or something like that. Emphasizing situational gear allows a ton of growth potential for player progression.
NoobieDoo said:Cromulent said:I'm pretty confident that this is the way the devs are going but until we have some more information on crafting it is going to be hard to work out whether a player could be 100% dedicated to crafting. In most games it is perfectly possible to be a full time grouper or a full time raider but in most of the games I've played 100% dedicated crafters are very rare and I'd like to see that change.
I agree and I would like to see it too. My only concern would be that a lot of players like to do both(all); they like to be a full-time grouper/raider, as well as crafting. So if a game such as Pantheon designs the game where crafting is so involved and so in depth that to progress to the highest echelons of crafting the player would have to forego fighting monsters altogether (grouping/solo/raiding) then I think a lot of people would be bummed. And I think being bummed would be valid too because crafting has always been something a player could do outside of their grouping. Crafting gave players somethig to do when they didn't have time to group or raid. So while I'd like to see an MMO push the boundaries here I think it is also a tight rope they would have to walk because it is super important to create things for players to do (like crafting or fishing or personal housing etc) when they are alone or just when they don't have time to group or raid.
Yeah I can see how people would be disappointed. I totally understand why they would be upset.
My way of approaching the problem is that everyone should be able to get crafting up to a good level but only the 100% dedicated crafters get get crafting up to the uber level of crafting. That way you keep the casual crafters busy but make it worthwhile dedicating all your time to crafting if that is your goal. I think that would be happy compromise.
Megaera said: If all the raid gear is situational then there will still be bis gear, just many more pieces of it. That will force guilds to spread out their farming methods to equip faster. That will stop guilds from locking down all meaningful raid/farm equipment. I am 100% against almost immediate spawns of nerfed bosses after the real one is dead. To me thats watered down content. And if a guild is in need of drops from thst boss, there is nothing stopping them from farming it unless you lock them out. The players working together is the key to keeping content open and accessible to all. 40% best gear from raids, 40% from rare spawns/epic quests, and 20% from crafting. This would spread things out plenty.
I can live without it as well but the ghost system was used in Vanguard and I'm almost positive we'll see it reappear in some form in Pantheon. I don't think it will happen with all bosses but there will most likely be certain spawns (perhaps quest related or entry level raid) that will have the ghost / fast-respawn elements to make sure that they are accessible to all. As far as your numbers on situational BiS gear goes, I would be fine with that as well but highly doubt we'll see it. I expect something closer to 35% from group activities (dungeon crawls, rare names), 20% from raids, 20% from crafting (hopefully the best of the best will be using components that can only be acquired from PVE content), 15% from faction, and 10% from quests.
For me.. i really don't mind if a lot of the raid content is Open World. Planes of Power featured some of the most fun raid content in EQ.
THAT SAID.
If the Raid Content is going to be Open World, you'll need to address the problem of FAIR ACCESS. If you're going to do like Old EQ, and simply put things on long timers so that the Top 2 guilds can farm as they come up, just don't bother. There needs to be Fair Access for as many guilds as possible, and on their schedule, not that of the game.
That pretty much means spawnable events, with lockouts. Think the Cleric Epic Final Fight against that Dragon and the absolute mess that preceded it, necessitating the changes to make it spawnable. And like PoP, you segregate the event to the back of the zone. Whats interesting is that i can see an interesting dynamic.
* A Raid Event is spawnable. Upon doing so, everyone gets a task timer(to when it can be respawned), the doors close and anybody not in the Raid is booted from the Spawn Area.
* Raid then attempts the Event.
* Upon fail, all of the bodies are sent to the start of the zone(Graveyard), and the task timer for that riad is set to 1 hour(or pick a cooldown time.. you could do the once a day thing and make it say an 18 hour timer). Next guild gives it a try.
* Upon success, anybody dead is auto-rezzed by the event, loot is provided, and a task timer of say 7 days is set. The trigger respawns. Next guild gives it a try.
What this has the potential to do is make it a lot more competitive for guilds, because you only get one go at the open world raid event before being put on a cooldown for it, and failing incurs a heavy penalty. It also allows other guilds to try the event before anyone has completely 'figured it out', making the first kill more meaningful.
The biggest thing being all guilds can and will have a fair shot at the mob and/or event so you don't have c-blocking and interference. This is only Open World Rules, of course.
Not a fan of farming resources as a cost to spawn events, particularly given the onerous penalty I described of having essentially one shot per hour or day at it, as its essentially another form of putting content behind a pay wall. If a raid can do it, they should be able to try.
The Raid Currency mechanic, or some form of it, is a must. If you farm raids X amount of times and recieve Y amount of credit for it, you should be able to spend that credit and get your choice of a drop from the loot tables. How you tune X and Y determines when you get enough currency that that drop can finally be obtained. Its usually never fast enough that you can totally gear this way, but it prevents people from farming the thing months on end and simply never either getting the right roll or having the right dkp to be able to loot anything from the event. A common occurance in the early EQ game. It also makes you focus on those key items you really need.
Im interested in the specific ways to stop the rush level to max level / end game and being ill equiped. Example in Everquest 1 a character could just be twinked out then have a druid thorns regen him and run around a high aggro zone like unrest flying up levels. The down sides were you had horrible fizzles as casters or low defence offence weapon skills as fighter class... all of which you could practice or say let a monster hit you while buffed every time you went up a few levels.
The interest I have in this is seeing a solid way to stop power leveling - that has been thought up rather than a hurdle that people just work around and do anyway.
Another reason people would rush to highest level was you could make alot more platinum there and also rushing to top level for say a pet class you could farm away drop items for tailor, blacksmith etc or platinum from monsters like ice giants, then you use your wealth to have the best items for your low level characters all the way up to top level skipping potentially weeks of socializing and allowing a character to level up by grouping.
I do like the idea of a slow progression/levels by playing the game which I havent seen in a long time.
I've raided pretty heavily in VG and I don't remember any 'ghost' versions of raid bosses. I quit before some of the very final content was released so maybe it was part of that content but I don't remember any ghost versions of APW bosses or Griffon questline bosses or POTA or SoD or stuff around that era.
Rador said:Im interested in the specific ways to stop the rush level to max level / end game and being ill equiped. Example in Everquest 1 a character could just be twinked out then have a druid thorns regen him and run around a high aggro zone like unrest flying up levels. The down sides were you had horrible fizzles as casters or low defence offence weapon skills as fighter class... all of which you could practice or say let a monster hit you while buffed every time you went up a few levels.
I consider that a feature, not a bug, and really occured on a common basis later in the process when DS became strong enough via expansions, and levelling the traditional way was highly unrealistic. Its gotten to the point where they just give you a level 85 character now to start off with. If you want to go the 'traditional way, thats what Progression servers(something they should very much lay the ground work for) are for. Either way, it something you don't have to worry about until the game has actually been out for a long time.
It was far more common for twinkage to happen in classic, and once again, i consider that a feature, not a bug. I see absolutely no reason for Pantheon to go through and itemize their stuff for required levels. What they talked about with 'tuning' the gear in order to prevent inflation sounds more realistic. Buying a set of gloves and 'tailoring' them for your character, making the item no drop in the process. It was fitted for you. Its basically a variation of bind on equip.
The interest I have in this is seeing a solid way to stop power leveling - that has been thought up rather than a hurdle that people just work around and do anyway.
Not sure why you would want to stop it, other than envy. And the only way you'll truly stop it is hardcaps on levelling and xp rates per day, and nobody will buy that game.
NoobieDoo said:I've raided pretty heavily in VG and I don't remember any 'ghost' versions of raid bosses. I quit before some of the very final content was released so maybe it was part of that content but I don't remember any ghost versions of APW bosses or Griffon questline bosses or POTA or SoD or stuff around that era.
If you killed a raid mob in VG they either didn;t respawn for a while or respawned within a certain time (sometimes instantly) and were translucent, non-aggro and unattackable, you were locked out for usually 7 days from killing them again, solving the camping problem and allowing lots of other guilds to have a go, while the guild who killed it moved on to other targets, for this to work however there needs to be enough raid content and targets to fill a guild roster for the week, which is something we are aware of as we have many raiders on the team from hardcore to casual. :)
Kilsin said:NoobieDoo said:I've raided pretty heavily in VG and I don't remember any 'ghost' versions of raid bosses. I quit before some of the very final content was released so maybe it was part of that content but I don't remember any ghost versions of APW bosses or Griffon questline bosses or POTA or SoD or stuff around that era.
If you killed a raid mob in VG they either didn;t respawn for a while or respawned within a certain time (sometimes instantly) and were translucent, non-aggro and unattackable, you were locked out for usually 7 days from killing them again, solving the camping problem and allowing lots of other guilds to have a go, while the guild who killed it moved on to other targets, for this to work however there needs to be enough raid content and targets to fill a guild roster for the week, which is something we are aware of as we have many raiders on the team from hardcore to casual. :)
Do you really have to though? And whose guild roster are we talking? High-End Uber Raiders that will have anything you can make down before you can blink(assuming it isn't released in a broken state(Rathe Council, Tacvi, etc)) just to make sure its nearly impossible(or impossible) to kill before tuning? I mean, with the base package, you're putting out an entire game of content. There really doesn't have to be a lot of high-end raid content, and tbh it might be good to take the raid content and release it on a schedule ala WoW. First tier on release.. a raid + mobs for a new tier every month. That way you can put stuff out there, fine tune it after it hits, and bring more than just high-end raid guilds along as you go. They may have it down a couple days after release.. but other guilds can take a week or two. So you end up with say the 3-4 tiers of raid content for Vanilla, but not all at once dogpiled at the start.
Quillim said:Kilsin said:NoobieDoo said:I've raided pretty heavily in VG and I don't remember any 'ghost' versions of raid bosses. I quit before some of the very final content was released so maybe it was part of that content but I don't remember any ghost versions of APW bosses or Griffon questline bosses or POTA or SoD or stuff around that era.
If you killed a raid mob in VG they either didn;t respawn for a while or respawned within a certain time (sometimes instantly) and were translucent, non-aggro and unattackable, you were locked out for usually 7 days from killing them again, solving the camping problem and allowing lots of other guilds to have a go, while the guild who killed it moved on to other targets, for this to work however there needs to be enough raid content and targets to fill a guild roster for the week, which is something we are aware of as we have many raiders on the team from hardcore to casual. :)
Do you really have to though? And whose guild roster are we talking? High-End Uber Raiders that will have anything you can make down before you can blink(assuming it isn't released in a broken state(Rathe Council, Tacvi, etc)) just to make sure its nearly impossible(or impossible) to kill before tuning? I mean, with the base package, you're putting out an entire game of content. There really doesn't have to be a lot of high-end raid content, and tbh it might be good to take the raid content and release it on a schedule ala WoW. First tier on release.. a raid + mobs for a new tier every month. That way you can put stuff out there, fine tune it after it hits, and bring more than just high-end raid guilds along as you go. They may have it down a couple days after release.. but other guilds can take a week or two. So you end up with say the 3-4 tiers of raid content for Vanilla, but not all at once dogpiled at the start.
I am not talking about from release, raid content will be implemented over time and will be tailored to all guilds, the raid targets will vary in challenge, difficulty and mechanics so there will be something for everyone and again, I must stress, we are not new to this aspect of it and have many experienced raiders on the team, we see what happens in other games, we play them too, so best to wait until you see what we have in store before trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist in our game, my friend. ;)
Iksar said:Content is king, not competition. I would be actively involved in progressing the content...if other players weren't blocking me out playing gatekeeper. Therefore the time thing? Doesn't check out here. I could have the same 1,000 hours invested into the game as a "hardcore" raider while being just as skilled an focused on my character, just at different times, and not reach the same level because he was in a "top" guild and phone tree'd every raid.
Competition will ALWAYS be a part of a non-instanced MMO. And that includes having multiple copies of the same open zone (which is a form of instancing no matter what anyone says, and I do support it by the way).
But if you want to play without ever dealing with competition then you should start trying to convince Brad to instance everything. Because anything valuable that there is only one of in the world (a boss mob, for example) will have people competing to get it.
I hope you're not one of the people who has been so vocally opposed to all instancing.
Searril said:Competition will ALWAYS be a part of a non-instanced MMO. And that includes having multiple copies of the same open zone (which is a form of instancing no matter what anyone says, and I do support it by the way).
But if you want to play without ever dealing with competition then you should start trying to convince Brad to instance everything. Because anything valuable that there is only one of in the world (a boss mob, for example) will have people competing to get it.
I hope you're not one of the people who has been so vocally opposed to all instancing.
Yes, I also said:
I'd prefer competition be kept to a minimum, yes. No problem with regular group camps for spawns every few hours. I don't play on PvE servers to get bamboozled into it becoming PvP for an entire type of content that supposidly has the (at least a fair portion) best rewards.
Skill should be the gatekeeper. If the raid is truly hard then let anyone throw themselves upon the rocks and only the strongest/best will rise to the top to reap the rewards. I'm fine with it being your way if the rewards are lesser than other content, but if you want to play gatekeeper on PvE servers by making it PvP and excluding players that have jobs/family or otherwise limited play time then I'd say it is a terrible mistake. Make the it accessable to attempt, but so difficult that only those dedicated to learning and working out out as a team can complete.
I have no issue with regular competition for a camp since named spawns tend to pop anywhere from 30 minutes to a few hours. Raids are entirely different and I don't want uber guilds to play gatekeeper. Groups there isn't really much competition in the sense that there either is or isn't a group at the camp at any given time of day so you get on a list or set up the camp yourself. I don't want to see raids be like EQ where the top guilds all race to beat a mob and lock it for the server for another 3-5 days before they race again.
I have no issues with shards/copies of open world zones when population reaches a certain point, so long as it is done in a way that can't be exploited by large numbers or players to spawn as many copies as they want.
oneADseven said: Some people do enjoy competition though and I am really happy to know that VR is aware of that and will be creating content with longer respawn timers for guilds to compete for. I don't like casual raids but I have no issue with them being implemented for people who do.
Not sure what accessible has to do with casual, but do you have a source for long respawn timers?