Angrykiz said:Raiding is what will get me to min max my character and pay for a sub long after I have hit max level.
If there's not enough of it to support a guild activity 2-3 nights a week I'll play to max level and then quit until more raids are made.
I can't see just playing group content for years on end.
True raid progression and extremely hard raid mobs that wipe out guilds are what I'm most interested in.
I think this is a niche that Pantheon should try to support although I feel like maybe I'm one of a dying breed of raiders.
Honestly Kilsin saying that they will raise the level cap as necessary is kind of a bummer to me as I would much rather see more horizontal progression versus just adding more levels.
Thanks for reading,
Kiz~
You aren't alone Kiz. Raiding is what keeps me around, but I like a combination of group content as well. My main focus is raiding, but I want group content that allows me to build my character toward that end during off hours. I am somewhat concerned that there won't be enough end game raid content, but will take a wait and see stance. Every name I recognize from this forum were like minded folks.
I could be totally off here, but I think people gravitate towards raiding because it allows all of their guild members to do something together in a game. I understand that Pantheon's primary focus is on solo group content. What if they add in other things to do for guilds that can bring multiple solo groups and everyone can enjoy the game together as a guild that isn't raids? Not sure what that could be as the easiest way so far in MMO's is "raids" without implementing guild instanced zones, guild building, guild quests, etc. Would be nice to see some more content added in that all guild members can partake in.
Guild quests, guild XP, guild AA system would all be amazing. I would even settle for achievements ... but yeah, fully agree that having content that guilds can work on collectively is extremely important.
To the people who are hardcore raiders and are stating their concerns with Pantheon only having '20%' raid content. Whatever arbitrary number which is raiding in PRF, 20% is a lot of raid content for worlds as big as Terminus. Like I said previously, I would bet money that VG at sunset had probably around 20% raid content and there was plenty to raid in VG.
NoobieDoo said:To the people who are hardcore raiders and are stating their concerns with Pantheon only having '20%' raid content. Whatever arbitrary number which is raiding in PRF, 20% is a lot of raid content for worlds as big as Terminus. Like I said previously, I would bet money that VG at sunset had probably around 20% raid content and there was plenty to raid in VG.
Wish I could've played VG long enough to experience APW, but the raid content available at launch wasn't even enough to keep a semi-hardcore raid guild busy. My entire guild decided to leave and go back to EQ2. We enjoyed building the castle and whatnot but what we enjoyed more than anything was doing PVE content collectively as a guild. Beyond Rahz Inkur and Temple of Tehatamani there wasn't anything for us to do ... and both of those were pretty limited themselves. Raiding was an afterthought ... something that could be implemented later. It took way too long for APW to come out and I'm willing to bet that a lot of the traction that the game lost early on could have been saved if APW would have been available at launch. Basically ... if the raid mechanics aren't fully fleshed out, the game isn't ready to launch. Raiding is too important to be put on the back-burner. As far as the 20% number goes, I have no issue/concern with that at all.
It seems to me that the only thing players who prefer another style of play to raiding are requesting is the opportunity to get the same quality of gear. Whether the gear is attained through raiding, grouping, crafting or whatever path the player enjoys shouldn't matter. They player gets to play the game in the manner they enjoy the most. A player should not be forced into another playstyle because the gear isn't available unless they do.
Only in this way can raiders raid because that's what they like, groupers group because that is what they like, crafters craft because that is what they like, and so forth. The rewards need to be equivalent across gameplay styles at all levels.
quadrophenia said:It seems to me that the only thing players who prefer another style of play to raiding are requesting is the opportunity to get the same quality of gear. Whether the gear is attained through raiding, grouping, crafting or whatever path the player enjoys shouldn't matter. They player gets to play the game in the manner they enjoy the most. A player should not be forced into another playstyle because the gear isn't available unless they do.
Only in this way can raiders raid because that's what they like, groupers group because that is what they like, crafters craft because that is what they like, and so forth. The rewards need to be equivalent across gameplay styles at all levels.
I wouldnt even say that people who don't want raiding want the same quality of gear. Some do. But most just don't want the game to gradually shift to a focus on shooting to max level on every expansion and grinding out keying on raids that unlock 50% of the content and get gear that's exponentially more powerful than anything achievable by any other avenues.
I personally think raiders should be rewarded with quality gear. I just dont think that they should be made so much more powerful by doing so that they can march thru other content with impunity. And I wholly disagree with a notion that everyone must raid if they want to see the majority of an expansion's content. PoP comes to mind.
quadrophenia said:It seems to me that the only thing players who prefer another style of play to raiding are requesting is the opportunity to get the same quality of gear. Whether the gear is attained through raiding, grouping, crafting or whatever path the player enjoys shouldn't matter. They player gets to play the game in the manner they enjoy the most. A player should not be forced into another playstyle because the gear isn't available unless they do.
Only in this way can raiders raid because that's what they like, groupers group because that is what they like, crafters craft because that is what they like, and so forth. The rewards need to be equivalent across gameplay styles at all levels.
Crafters most certainly should be required at the highest end of the game even when you are getting raid loot. If raid loot always beats crafted gear even though crafting requires just as much time and skill (or at least should do if the crafting system is decent) as someone getting to max level so they can raid then there would be no reason for crafters to exist.
I suggest that raids drop ingredients some times that can be turned into gear that is at least equivalent to raid gear. That way crafters will still be needed in the most hardcore raid guilds because they will realise that crafting is an important part of the game. Far too many games ignore crafting or make them useless at the top end of the game and that basically means that no one bothers with it because they can just get all their loot from group / raid encounters.
I'm a firm believer that crafting should be a major part of the game and not forgotten. I'm not saying crafted gear should always be the same as raid gear. That would be silly but some raids should drop ingredients that are used by crafters to make items that are equivalent.
Cromulent said:quadrophenia said:It seems to me that the only thing players who prefer another style of play to raiding are requesting is the opportunity to get the same quality of gear. Whether the gear is attained through raiding, grouping, crafting or whatever path the player enjoys shouldn't matter. They player gets to play the game in the manner they enjoy the most. A player should not be forced into another playstyle because the gear isn't available unless they do.
Only in this way can raiders raid because that's what they like, groupers group because that is what they like, crafters craft because that is what they like, and so forth. The rewards need to be equivalent across gameplay styles at all levels.Crafters most certainly should be required at the highest end of the game even when you are getting raid loot. If raid loot always beats crafted gear even though crafting requires just as much time and skill (or at least should do if the crafting system is decent) as someone getting to max level so they can raid then there would be no reason for crafters to exist.
I suggest that raids drop ingredients some times that can be turned into gear that is at least equivalent to raid gear. That way crafters will still be needed in the most hardcore raid guilds because they will realise that crafting is an important part of the game. Far too many games ignore crafting or make them useless at the top end of the game and that basically means that no one bothers with it because they can just get all their loot from group / raid encounters.
I'm a firm believer that crafting should be a major part of the game and not forgotten. I'm not saying crafted gear should always be the same as raid gear. That would be silly but some raids should drop ingredients that are used by crafters to make items that are equivalent.
The devs have stated that crafters can improve most anything. So in a sense it sounds like it will be as you're suggesting, potentially with raid gear being improved thru crafting. It only seems logical that components to do so should come from equally difficult encounters as the gear that dropped it originally.
Feyshtey said:Cromulent said:quadrophenia said:It seems to me that the only thing players who prefer another style of play to raiding are requesting is the opportunity to get the same quality of gear. Whether the gear is attained through raiding, grouping, crafting or whatever path the player enjoys shouldn't matter. They player gets to play the game in the manner they enjoy the most. A player should not be forced into another playstyle because the gear isn't available unless they do.
Only in this way can raiders raid because that's what they like, groupers group because that is what they like, crafters craft because that is what they like, and so forth. The rewards need to be equivalent across gameplay styles at all levels.Crafters most certainly should be required at the highest end of the game even when you are getting raid loot. If raid loot always beats crafted gear even though crafting requires just as much time and skill (or at least should do if the crafting system is decent) as someone getting to max level so they can raid then there would be no reason for crafters to exist.
I suggest that raids drop ingredients some times that can be turned into gear that is at least equivalent to raid gear. That way crafters will still be needed in the most hardcore raid guilds because they will realise that crafting is an important part of the game. Far too many games ignore crafting or make them useless at the top end of the game and that basically means that no one bothers with it because they can just get all their loot from group / raid encounters.
I'm a firm believer that crafting should be a major part of the game and not forgotten. I'm not saying crafted gear should always be the same as raid gear. That would be silly but some raids should drop ingredients that are used by crafters to make items that are equivalent.
The devs have stated that crafters can improve most anything. So in a sense it sounds like it will be as you're suggesting, potentially with raid gear being improved thru crafting. It only seems logical that components to do so should come from equally difficult encounters as the gear that dropped it originally.
Yeah the improvement thing has me really excited. I just want to see how it will be implemented. My biggest question about the improvement system is will crafters be able to improve NO DROP loot and if so how will that work if the other player has already looted it? Hopefully some system will be put in place that will allow NO DROP loot to be improved and I'll certainly be looking out for more information on that side of things.
yeah i'm also curious how they're going to implement that upgrading feature. in lotro, since they made legendary weapons fully customizable, and now upgradeable, it became boring. but i think a big part of the reason is that they did it to sell more items in the shop. i'm confident, VR will make it more interesting.
Cromulent said:Feyshtey said:Cromulent said:quadrophenia said:It seems to me that the only thing players who prefer another style of play to raiding are requesting is the opportunity to get the same quality of gear. Whether the gear is attained through raiding, grouping, crafting or whatever path the player enjoys shouldn't matter. They player gets to play the game in the manner they enjoy the most. A player should not be forced into another playstyle because the gear isn't available unless they do.
Only in this way can raiders raid because that's what they like, groupers group because that is what they like, crafters craft because that is what they like, and so forth. The rewards need to be equivalent across gameplay styles at all levels.Crafters most certainly should be required at the highest end of the game even when you are getting raid loot. If raid loot always beats crafted gear even though crafting requires just as much time and skill (or at least should do if the crafting system is decent) as someone getting to max level so they can raid then there would be no reason for crafters to exist.
I suggest that raids drop ingredients some times that can be turned into gear that is at least equivalent to raid gear. That way crafters will still be needed in the most hardcore raid guilds because they will realise that crafting is an important part of the game. Far too many games ignore crafting or make them useless at the top end of the game and that basically means that no one bothers with it because they can just get all their loot from group / raid encounters.
I'm a firm believer that crafting should be a major part of the game and not forgotten. I'm not saying crafted gear should always be the same as raid gear. That would be silly but some raids should drop ingredients that are used by crafters to make items that are equivalent.
The devs have stated that crafters can improve most anything. So in a sense it sounds like it will be as you're suggesting, potentially with raid gear being improved thru crafting. It only seems logical that components to do so should come from equally difficult encounters as the gear that dropped it originally.
Yeah the improvement thing has me really excited. I just want to see how it will be implemented. My biggest question about the improvement system is will crafters be able to improve NO DROP loot and if so how will that work if the other player has already looted it? Hopefully some system will be put in place that will allow NO DROP loot to be improved and I'll certainly be looking out for more information on that side of things.
I have seen it done. I can't remember which game ... maybe FFXIV? It's honestly a pretty simple system. You open up a window similar to a trade window, but one where you can place a single piece of no-trade loot that you want to be enchanted. There are other slots in the window where you can add items that can be traded such as components, and usually a tip. Both parties must agree on whatever work/operation/attempt that will take place. It's basically a trade that is contingent on crafting work being done on the slot that is designated as no-trade. There was always the chance, though, that the enchanting attempt could fail and that all resource components be consumed in the process. The tip would usually come later in a separate trade after the work was complete. Then there are other options such as allowing crafters to create enchantments that any person can use/apply to their gear, such as how EQ2/WoW did it. These enchants were some of the most valuable/sought after items on the market.
I would like to see a blend, personally. Perhaps crafters can make the enchants and then sell them in the market place ... but to encourage player to player interaction, there could be a potential bonus of some degree when the enchantment is applied to the gear directly? Perhaps the bonus could vary from crafter to crafter, depending on how they specialize? The bonus wouldn't necessarily have to be permanent either. I would love to see a crafting system where not every blacksmith with the same materials/level offers the same service. Specialization has already been hinted at and I think allowing crafters to "imbue" their enchantments with bonuses would be pretty awesome. Maybe "imbuing" is completely separate than enchanting ... in the sense that enchanting is a permanent modifcation to your gear, whereas "imbuing" is a temporary enchantment. Imbuing gear could last a day ... maybe a week, tops? It would create a demand for players to interact much more frequently with crafters and require a decent amount of maintenance on the gear in order to always be optimal.
oneADseven said:Cromulent said:Feyshtey said:Cromulent said:quadrophenia said:It seems to me that the only thing players who prefer another style of play to raiding are requesting is the opportunity to get the same quality of gear. Whether the gear is attained through raiding, grouping, crafting or whatever path the player enjoys shouldn't matter. They player gets to play the game in the manner they enjoy the most. A player should not be forced into another playstyle because the gear isn't available unless they do.
Only in this way can raiders raid because that's what they like, groupers group because that is what they like, crafters craft because that is what they like, and so forth. The rewards need to be equivalent across gameplay styles at all levels.Crafters most certainly should be required at the highest end of the game even when you are getting raid loot. If raid loot always beats crafted gear even though crafting requires just as much time and skill (or at least should do if the crafting system is decent) as someone getting to max level so they can raid then there would be no reason for crafters to exist.
I suggest that raids drop ingredients some times that can be turned into gear that is at least equivalent to raid gear. That way crafters will still be needed in the most hardcore raid guilds because they will realise that crafting is an important part of the game. Far too many games ignore crafting or make them useless at the top end of the game and that basically means that no one bothers with it because they can just get all their loot from group / raid encounters.
I'm a firm believer that crafting should be a major part of the game and not forgotten. I'm not saying crafted gear should always be the same as raid gear. That would be silly but some raids should drop ingredients that are used by crafters to make items that are equivalent.
The devs have stated that crafters can improve most anything. So in a sense it sounds like it will be as you're suggesting, potentially with raid gear being improved thru crafting. It only seems logical that components to do so should come from equally difficult encounters as the gear that dropped it originally.
Yeah the improvement thing has me really excited. I just want to see how it will be implemented. My biggest question about the improvement system is will crafters be able to improve NO DROP loot and if so how will that work if the other player has already looted it? Hopefully some system will be put in place that will allow NO DROP loot to be improved and I'll certainly be looking out for more information on that side of things.
I have seen it done. I can't remember which game ... maybe FFXIV? It's honestly a pretty simple system. You open up a window similar to a trade window, but one where you can place a single piece of no-trade loot that you want to be enchanted. There are other slots in the window where you can add items that can be traded such as components, and usually a tip. Both parties must agree on whatever work/operation/attempt that will take place. It's basically a trade that is contingent on crafting work being done on the slot that is designated as no-trade. There was always the chance, though, that the enchanting attempt could fail and that all resource components be consumed in the process. The tip would usually come later in a separate trade after the work was complete. Then there are other options such as allowing crafters to create enchantments that any person can use/apply to their gear, such as how EQ2/WoW did it. These enchants were some of the most valuable/sought after items on the market.
I would like to see a blend, personally. Perhaps crafters can make the enchants and then sell them in the market place ... but to encourage player to player interaction, there could be a potential bonus of some degree when the enchantment is applied to the gear directly? Perhaps the bonus could vary from crafter to crafter, depending on how they specialize? The bonus wouldn't necessarily have to be permanent either. I would love to see a crafting system where not every blacksmith with the same materials/level offers the same service. Specialization has already been hinted at and I think allowing crafters to "imbue" their enchantments with bonuses would be pretty awesome. Maybe "imbuing" is completely separate than enchanting ... in the sense that enchanting is a permanent modifcation to your gear, whereas "imbuing" is a temporary enchantment. Imbuing gear could last a day ... maybe a week, tops? It would create a demand for players to interact much more frequently with crafters and require a decent amount of maintenance on the gear in order to always be optimal.
Temporary upgrades sound interesting. I know for a fact that you might not always want a permenent upgrade to an item because you might use it in different situations so the ability to swap and change as time moves forward would be a good one. My main concern (which isn't really a concern, more a wish) is that crafters just have a role to fullfill at each level of the game. People who dedicate their time to crafting put in just as many hours as people leveling through killing mobs or questing and yet in some games they are often overlooked which I feel is real shame. So anything that makes sure that crafters are at least thought about is important to me.
I'm not asking for crafters be over powered though just equal to other sources of items and gear based on the amount of time they have put into leveling up their crafting skill.
I think part of what made early EQ great was that in many cases "raids" weren't designed as raids. They were often the powerful boss of a dungeon that increased in difficulty as you went along. I love that model and I hope that's what they have in mind for Pantheon. When you think about it, the first real "raid" in EQ was Veeshan's Peak but most people didn't experience it until late velious (or later). NToV was even more of an evolution towards WoW style raids but I think a game can support something like that as long as its done well.
What i'd love to see is alternate end game content. Yes Raids should always be part of it. But there are other ways to make it fun at end game content!
Bringing back some previous ideas
1. Arena PvP where people can witness competition inside an arena. make it city tourny, then the world tourny bringing all city winners to one big tourny!
2. Fishing competition who catches the biggest badess fish in the sea! imagine if this gets intrduced when personal ships are introduced!
3. Crafting, have your wares displayed proudly and being part of the elite crafters! I dont know how this could be done but if people spend more time crafting than adventuring perhaps they could get some sort of bonus as they master the craft more than the one adventuring?
4. Not sure if we will have houses or not but if we do, have a monthly competition on who ca have the best looking interior :-)
@Crom
From the sound of it, crafting will indeed be very important. Crafting specializations have been confirmed while adventure specializations are only being considered. You have definitely been a champion of all things crafting in Pantheon. I try to champion many causes, but the one that is most special to me is anything/everything to do with guilds. Raiding has always been a chunk of content that allows a guild to band together and tackle something well beyond the scope of a single group. Pantheon has a huge focus on cooperative gameplay, teamwork, socialization, etc. As long as most major decisions keep those very important aspects in mind, I think we're in store for some amazing memory building sessions.
As far as I am concerned, I would like to see all styles of gameplay have an impact on end-game, including harvesting! I haven't seen a whole lot of discussion on end-game harvesting, but it's definitely possible. Imagine that when a dragon is killed it drops it's standard set of loot. Beyond that, it also drops a lockbox that can only be opened by a specialized rogue. In addition, it's corpse can be skinned/flayed for rare dragon scales/fangs/bones, etc. I would like to see "contested" exotic harvesting nodes ... a cave pond for example that cannot be fished safely without the help of adventurers. I want the game to pull people together, from as many playstyles as possible. I want there to be dozens and dozens of "unique" opportunities that can only be capitalized by having a player with a specific skill-set. The more detriments the game has, the more opportunities there are to create dynamic content that requires some sort of specialized assistance.
We don't know much about the deity system yet, but I imagine we'll sacrifice gear for favor. That sounds awesome. How could something like this be modified in a way to allow guilds to work on it collectively? I think it would be epic if guilds had the opportunity to undergo some sort of questline where they can acquire artifacts that belong to various deities. Perhaps, over time, a guild could create a temple where they can house their various deity monuments / altars that they can worship. Imagine if guild bankers were able to stock their temple with goods that players could sacrifice for favor as needed. Or maybe there could be a giant favor pool that the guild could work on collectively? Sort of like a tiered favor system? Every individual player could have their own personal character/deity relationship and resource pool, but beyond that, there is a T2 pool that can be worked on collectively.
I have a guild full of like-minded veteran gamers. People who understand the importance of relationship building and going out of your way to help others. I want to see a crafting system that requires various crafters to have to work together to make specialized products. I want to see a perception system that does the same! Perhaps there could be areas in the game that can only be navigated if you have multiple players fully progressed in various perception specializations. As a rule of thumb ... if you can twist any aspect of the game in a way to where it requires you to work with other players, that's a good thing. The more unique variables involved, the better. A rogue is not a rogue is not a rogue. I want to see gameplay where my team can take advantage of a situation that requires having 3 different specialized rogues all at the same time.
Another idea that has always appealed to me is having a coliseum. There are many players out there who have taken up issue with the regional auction houses. I imagine that if a coliseum were implemented, and that it offered plenty of fun/engaging activities for individuals/groups/guilds, it could serve as an unofficial EC tunnel of sorts. If you can create an attraction that will naturally pull people together ... THAT could be something really fun. I would like to see it become accessible around level 35. It would feel like a major milestone in the game ... you've been traveling all this time, seeing people as you go, but now you get to the hotspot that has tons of people from far and wide. You could participate in horse racing/betting, arena PVP, fishing tournaments, PVE arena (timed challenges, wave challenges, raid challenges, leaderboards), diplomacy, lottery, mini-games, etc. For any Final Fantasy fans out there, imagine the coliseum from FF3 on the SNES where you could sacrifice items to fight something, and the Gold Saucer from FF7 on the PS1 that was full of mini-games. Add in a cool fishing system and something for culinarians/designers as well. One thing that wouldn't be here ... an AH! Player to player trading only!
oneADseven said:@Crom
From the sound of it, crafting will indeed be very important. Crafting specializations have been confirmed while adventure specializations are only being considered. You have definitely been a champion of all things crafting in Pantheon. I try to champion many causes, but the one that is most special to me is anything/everything to do with guilds. Raiding has always been a chunk of content that allows a guild to band together and tackle something well beyond the scope of a single group. Pantheon has a huge focus on cooperative gameplay, teamwork, socialization, etc. As long as most major decisions keep those very important aspects in mind, I think we're in store for some amazing memory building sessions.
As far as I am concerned, I would like to see all styles of gameplay have an impact on end-game, including harvesting! I haven't seen a whole lot of discussion on end-game harvesting, but it's definitely possible. Imagine that when a dragon is killed it drops it's standard set of loot. Beyond that, it also drops a lockbox that can only be opened by a specialized rogue. In addition, it's corpse can be skinned/flayed for rare dragon scales/fangs/bones, etc. I would like to see "contested" exotic harvesting nodes ... a cave pond for example that cannot be fished safely without the help of adventurers. I want the game to pull people together, from as many playstyles as possible. I want there to be dozens and dozens of "unique" opportunities that can only be capitalized by having a player with a specific skill-set. The more detriments the game has, the more opportunities there are to create dynamic content that requires some sort of specialized assistance.
Thanks for the reply :). Yeah I agree everything I've heard about crafting so far from the developers has been very encouraging and I welcome some of the decisions they have taken regarding it. I also agree that the developers should make sure that all forms of progression are equally catered for. This includes grouping, raiding, a limited amount of soloing, crafting and harvesting. Whatever a player decides to do in-game should have some reward. Raiding should have some of the best rewards in the game and if group crafting is a thing then that should be able to craft some very nice items as well. The more time and skill you spend on something the greater the reward. This is why the hardest raid content should have some of the best item rewards in the game. Likewise group crafting (if it is a thing) should have some of the best crafted items in the game.
I agree with you when it comes to guilds as well. Guilds are what really make an MMO for me. They are a place where you can meet new people and make friends as well as enjoying the game with like minded individuals. They are the bedrock of the social aspect of MMOs. Organising a guild is fun and very rewarding and I'm really looking forward to getting to know all of my guild mates as time goes on.
Overall I'm very pleased with what I have been hearing from the developers recently. It really sounds like they know what they are doing and have really good plans in place so I'm just looking forward to more information being released. Perhaps the next newsletter will contain some interesting stuff?
Cromulent said:My biggest question about the improvement system is will crafters be able to improve NO DROP loot and if so how will that work if the other player has already looted it? Hopefully some system will be put in place that will allow NO DROP loot to be improved and I'll certainly be looking out for more information on that side of things.
If eventually crafters are able to enhance/enchant no drop raid items this is what I would like to see.
First, I'd like to see the possibility of learning every single crafting type require so much time that only the seriously dedicated players be able to obtain mastery in all categories. Not only would I like to see depth in PRFs crafting system I'd also like for players to not be able master every craft easily. I don't like the idea of handcuffing players to only being able to master one craft like some games do but I think it would go a long way for giving the ability to enhance no drop raid items. Why?
Because I'd like to see enhancing no drop raid items be left to the owner of the item them self. Instead of temporarily giving someone else your no drop item for them to enhance the only way to enhance the item is to do it yourself. So if players are only able to master one craft (or not master every craft) or it is very hard to master all the crafts then this would create a good balance and not make the crafter too powerful. Unless you spend the time. It would also create a lane for players to really think before they begin their crafting career. A warrior could master blacksmithing and be able to eventually enhance all of their blacksmithing no drop raid items. OR to make it even more strategic the warrior would have to master weapon smithing and ultimately be able to enhance their no drop raid weapons. Or armor smithing and be able to enhance armor. etc etc And obviously all no drop items could be enhanced not just raid items.
Couple this with giving crafters the ability to craft items equal in power to raid drops and I think crafters could have a very prominent role within the 'end game' gear scene. Being able to enhance their own items would just be the cherry on top for having spent so much time in crafting and would also give every player a giant reason to begin crafting in the first place.
NoobieDoo said:and would also give every player a giant reason to begin crafting in the first place.yes this is what i'm afraid of. i preferred much the EQ system, where NOT everyone was a crafter. few actually had a high crafting skill. but i guess they will go the modern style and make crafting so easy that everyone is doing it, just restricted to one trade.
letsdance said:NoobieDoo said:and would also give every player a giant reason to begin crafting in the first place.yes this is what i'm afraid of. i preferred much the EQ system, where NOT everyone was a crafter. few actually had a high crafting skill. but i guess they will go the modern style and make crafting so easy that everyone is doing it, just restricted to one trade.
You gotta love when people hope the majority will not play parts of a game.
It's going to be a solid game. Hopefully, most people will want to experience all of the game.
letsdance said:NoobieDoo said:and would also give every player a giant reason to begin crafting in the first place.yes this is what i'm afraid of. i preferred much the EQ system, where NOT everyone was a crafter. few actually had a high crafting skill. but i guess they will go the modern style and make crafting so easy that everyone is doing it, just restricted to one trade.
I haven't seen any information released that suggests VR is using any modern style crafting system or that it will be easy. What makes you think that? Did I miss a crafting announcement of some sort? We haven't even seen a single crafted item yet as far as I know. Pantheon is a hardcore game and I find it farfetched to think that something as major as crafting will be done in a way that's identified as "so easy that everyone is doing it." With a player driven economy, I imagine it being a pain in the ass to get to max level crafting, especially if a bunch of the recipes require components from multiple professions.
I have never been a huge fan of crafting, but I would love to see a system in Pantheon that encourages people to craft that isn't tied into profit or convenience. I would totally level up blacksmithing if it allowed some sort of PVE bonus that is exclusive to blacksmithing. Most games shy away from stuff like this. They keep crafting stats/progression completely separate from our adventure class. Why couldn't a master blacksmith have a stamina boost or extra fire resist? As far as I am concerned ... the more unique ways we can progress our character and separate a warrior from a warrior from a warrior from a warrior, the better. Race, perception, crafting profession, gear, specialization, rites of passage, colored mana ... I love all of these ideas/concepts and really hope that VR takes character progression to the next level.
Beefcake said:You gotta love when people hope the majority will not play parts of a game.It's going to be a solid game. Hopefully, most people will want to experience all of the game.
i hope it's going to have sufficient content that i'm happy with only using some of it. for example they stated repeatedly that not everyone needs to participate in the perception system. there was even a thread "is it really optional". i like to have distinctive characters and players. not everyone will raid, not everyone will percept(!), not everyone will PvP. why do you think everyone should be a crafter? in EQ you had to seek a master smith if you needed one. MMOs have so many players, i love meeting different people / characters / players that each play the game differently. if everyone is a crafter you're just one of the crowd really.
most of all, i hope (and am confident) they'll have a large enough world so that you cannot sensefully experience all of it easily. EQ had so many different zones for each level that you needed multiple characters to have played them all.
@oneADseven: the reason why i think they'll make it easy is that many people think like beefcake and i notice a tendency to make the game more suitable for the masses than i expected initially: auction houses, quests, zone copying - why not crafting as well?
I'm not going to comment on regional auction houses other than to say that I am absolutely thrilled that we'll eventually be able to test them. I am not sure what you mean about quests. As far as zone copies go, I am curious to see how sharding pans out. I understand the idea behind sharding but I'm not really a big fan of certain elements associated with it. I seriously hope that it's used as sparingly as possible. EQOA had a 100% open world and there was never a need for a single instance. Some of the raid zones got crowded from time to time ... awesome! I loved seeing a ton of people in Isle of Dread. Rather than opening up a second instance of IoD, though, they allowed raiders to farm place-holder mobs in order to force pop the names. I don't like the idea of multiple instances (shards) of the same zone being opened up, no matter how crowded it gets. If I'm not in the mood for fierce competition, I can always go somewhere else that isn't quite as intense. Beyond that, certain quest NPC's can have lockouts to prevent progression blocking. I want to see zones bustling with activity. I want to compete with other groups/guilds when it comes to tagging a named or winning the DPS race. If sharding waters down loot exclusivity or loot acquisition in any way, I will be disappointed.
In my opinion, the best way to deal with over-crowding is to offer a wide variety of content options for players to choose from. Faction could play a huge role in that. I would like to see 20+ factions that offer some sort of situational end-game gear. I would like to see Progeny implemented in a way that actually encourages people to use it as a form of progression. It's been stated that if it doesen't work it will be removed. If we test the system as it's designed and the majority of players don't like it, I would hope that the idea behind it could still be salvaged and perhaps modified in a way that would make it more appealing rather than just scrapping the system altogether. I would like to see a huge curve on character progression similar to the AA systems of EQ and EQOA. I would absolutely love love love to see a zone like this (Read Evoras post) come into fruition:
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4986/ideas/view/post_id/100402 ; -- an area that allows players/groups/guilds to play as much as their hearts desire but having the effectiveness of that progression be mostly limited to that zone. Replay value is extremely important in any MMO and it's definitely a beast to balance. You want to give super hardcore players enough content to keep them busy and engaged, but not create so big a power gap between them and the more casual folks that it breaks the game. Evoras explains one potential way that something like that can be accomplished ... and it even includes radioactive pets!
When I played WoW, advanced character progression was basically just a matter of time. Oh hey, your character is a solid 3 weeks of progression ahead of mine. Cool story! I'll have that in 3 weeks. I would like to see progression be so much more than capping your weekly allotment of justice/valor/conquest points. I would like to see as many optional ways to progress my character as possible. You like my belt? How do you get one, you ask? Well there is only one way ... you need to complete a legendary fishing quest! But you don't like fishing? Sorry for your luck! Ohhh you like how shiny my armor is too? What kind of polish did I use? Well young lad, this isn't something you can buy in stores. Only a master blacksmith can offer this kind of bling! How much would I charge to "pimp out your armor?" Sorry young buck, this kind of technique is exclusive ... it can't be performed on other peoples armor. The specialization of this craft taps into your very soul! Err, I mean, I can only do this on my own soulbound armor. You should totally hit up that blacksmithing trainer over there if you want to learn how.
Did you just call me fat? That's actually "bonus girth" youngster, if you want stamina like me you need to be serious about nutrition and eat no less than 60 portions of dragon stew within a 30 day period! You might be able to buy some, but it's gonna cost ya! If you don't want to break the bank, you should probably look into killing some dragons. How am I wearing a sacred ring of Skarness, even though I'm an Ogre? Well this one time at training camp ... there was an ogre and a skar, they did stuff. Man I had some awesome grandparents! They liked to mix things up and so I ended up inheriting this ring that can only be worn by Skar. I understand that a lot of people probably don't like these ideas. It's probably too extreme, or the potential "gap" too wide. Players wouldn't want to feel "forced" into killing dragons, reproducing bi-racial spawnlings, mastering blacksmithing, or catching 10,000 fish just for a cool belt, some bonus stats, shiny armor and the ability to wear cross-race heirlooms.