I always play PVP servers. They seem to have very tight communities (not saying the other servers on Pantheon will not). In addition to that, it's always nice to be able to go slay some people when you only have 30min or so to play and can't be dedicated to grouping/raiding. It's just another element to the game that I enjoy and open world PVP is even better because you always have to be watching over your shoulder, just seems more immersed I suppose.
The only downside to PVP is that most of the time guilds have a harder time reaching end-game PVE content because of rifts or divides on the server/faction that will never allow them to be as coordinated as PVE servers (there are some exceptions, but now many).
Kilsin said:Sylee said:
PvP. Dullahan gets it right here.
It's making me a little sad to see all the PvP haters in this thread though. When the PvP server launches, you should all come play with me and I'll show you how fun it can be. <3I will definitely come and check it out with you folks and I know some other team members will be keen also, mind you I will have GM immunity on and a buff to magnetize all incoming damage by 1000% and return it to the owner but I will be there haha :D
P.S. This hate is mild compared to what the VG community gave you guys back in the day lol ;)
PVE 100%
I will say that I have played games where you had to PVP and have done my fair share of PVP to get abilities, gear, xp … Pros and cons of adding PVP to a game.
Pro’s – This is the only PRO’s I can think of right now. No other rational reason other than nostalgia by Devs.
Con’s
Hard to understand why Devs feel that one Pro is worth all the Con's just to touch PVP.
Sylee said:Kilsin said:Sylee said:
PvP. Dullahan gets it right here.
It's making me a little sad to see all the PvP haters in this thread though. When the PvP server launches, you should all come play with me and I'll show you how fun it can be. <3I will definitely come and check it out with you folks and I know some other team members will be keen also, mind you I will have GM immunity on and a buff to magnetize all incoming damage by 1000% and return it to the owner but I will be there haha :D
P.S. This hate is mild compared to what the VG community gave you guys back in the day lol ;)
Haha. Too true, Kilsin. The VG community definitely helped me develop a thick skin. The PvP hate here barely phases me. :)
You and your friends are welcome to come play with me anytime. You'll all be in my group with those GM tricks, right? I'll make sure to save you a spot . <3
Haha, absolutely ;)
PVE should be the base but i dont believe you can have a truly emersive RPG without the option of PVP being included. Be it pvp servers or the option to toggle pvp, even from a RP standpoint, pvp is pivitol in creating a diverse player base. From a developers standpoint, pvp is a whole niche of mmorpg players now and leaving it out could kill the life span of a great game, turning someone who may play 6-12months into someone who plays 3-6...
Lodgedogg said: The absolutely best part about this thread for me is thinking when someone says I tried pvp in X game and some jackass ruined y experience, I can't hope to think and hope that said jackass was me and it makes it all worth it
I've always had enough trouble with the game trying to kill me. I never felt the need to add other players trying to kill me too. I do enjoy object driven PvP like Hutball from Starwars though.
The only way I could endorse PvP was if there were REAL in game RP related drawbacks. Such as faction hits for killing other players that was not repairable. Griefing would come at a high cost. If you want to be a murderer, then you will be hated throughout the land and no longer be able to use merchants or enter main cities. You would be restricted to specific and sparse in game merchants that cost 2-3 times more and paid 2-3 times less for your vendor items. The black market isn't fair. I could get behind a system like this. If you kill someone in anything other than a /duel or in say RvR areas where its considered a "military" action then you are immediately KoS within most cities. As you continue killing you become KoS to everything, everywhere except some "assassin's den" where it is outragiously expensive to restock on food, water, potions, reagents, and ammo. Make it HURT to be a griefer. This brings a sense of immersion and realness to the game. Then I could get behind an open world all pvp game.
If you can curb the harassment and griefing, then i'm good, if not... then no PvP.
And for the love of god just normalize all dmg in PvP so that nothing is more powerful than anything else. Make anything except damage spells and such not work in PvP so that balance doesn't come into the equation. every damage ability just does 50 dmg (or 50dps, melee and spell casters might be done differently... maybe let everyone do the same dps over time regardless of how that dmg is done.) then it become more tactical rather than flavor of the month classes as everything is nerfed over and over in one giant circle.
I love the idea and prospect of PvP, it's just that PvP is often done poorly. If done right, it places an importance on relationships and forming alliances with other guilds has real weight. You can create so much depth to an MMO just by simply establishing it full PvP over PvE. Some say the problem with PvP is it's hard to balance classes but that's not true any longer. The problem is, is that most people don't want to be griefed. You shouldn't have to find a guild at level 1 just to feel safe and/or to protect yourself from others.
The devs need to create a PvP system that creates as little desire to kill weaker players as possible. Anyone can go outside there house right now and smack around some twirp but we don't do it because there are laws against it, there is little to no reward to do it, there is also the chance that twirp is actually a badass and we might get slapped around for messing with them, and for most of us it would not make us feel good to hurt/rob/mug/attack them. And the devs need to try to create this sort of atmosphere to help disuade players from griefing others.
If anybody knows of a game that has a PvP server/setting/system that creates this sort of environment let me know. I'd definitely like to check it out.
Kilsin said:Do you prefer PvE or PvP or Both, and what draws you to that style over the other?
Disclaimer: We have already stated that we will be PvE based and PvP servers will be separate and have no effect on PvE. :)
PVE 100%.
I dislike PVP in fantasy MMO's. If I'm going to PVP, I want a perfectly even playing field like you'd find in Counter-Strike. Just player skill vs player skill with no other variables. Nothing is ever balanced when magic/levels/gear is involved. Everyone is always complaining and no one is ever happy. Who wants that, really? Not me! :)
NoobieDoo said:I love the idea and prospect of PvP, it's just that PvP is often done poorly. If done right, it places an importance on relationships and forming alliances with other guilds has real weight. You can create so much depth to an MMO just by simply establishing it full PvP over PvE. Some say the problem with PvP is it's hard to balance classes but that's not true any longer. The problem is, is that most people don't want to be griefed. You shouldn't have to find a guild at level 1 just to feel safe and/or to protect yourself from others.
The devs need to create a PvP system that creates as little desire to kill weaker players as possible. Anyone can go outside there house right now and smack around some twirp but we don't do it because there are laws against it, there is little to no reward to do it, there is also the chance that twirp is actually a badass and we might get slapped around for messing with them, and for most of us it would not make us feel good to hurt/rob/mug/attack them. And the devs need to try to create this sort of atmosphere to help disuade players from griefing others.
If anybody knows of a game that has a PvP server/setting/system that creates this sort of environment let me know. I'd definitely like to check it out.
I'm right there with you noobie, as my post near the bottom of this thread outlines
Pvp servers always encourage PVP, but why... a server that was PVP capable , but not promoted would allow the players to moderate themselves. Griefers beware, you will be hunted.
I want to say that I'd be okay with PvP, but it would have to be the whole game to me: player-created content; player-created quests; player-created danger.
In a game like Pantheon or D&D or EQ or any role-playing game where you are playing through adventures, I believe that PvP is a major distraction and detriment to the storytelling. It's like having diplomacy card games in a fantasy setting, which excuses itself from any role-playing and makes the player perform a task before they can continue their story. I find that to be obnoxious. I've played on PvP servers in WoW and loved/hated it. I loved the challenege of player fights. That griefing though... I can't say that I found any fun in having to ask my guild to come to my rescue because a level 60 is perma-camping my level 22. It's a favor I shouldn't have to ask for, which is why a skill-based and/or team-based PvP system is all I ever really find rewarding where PvP is concerned.
TL;DR: PvE for storytelling and that tabletop feel. PvP for some other game where the story is player-generated or just an overlay to the game and there are no levels.
In class based games, I generally prefer PVE. I say that because generally, class based MMO developers screw up PVP by trying to make unequal classes equal, and PVP ends up being really stale and watered down. In games where the devs take a hands off approach to PVP, like EVE, the RZ server of original EQ1, pre-Lich King WoW, etc...I will end up playing PVP because of the fear/excitement element it adds to normal gameplay. It's a rare thing though, devs allowing serious gankfest PVP because people with no earthly business in that kind of world go there and then create thousands of forum posts whineplaying about how unfair and mean PVP is and why it must be fixed to allow them to have more fun.
Generally, I agree with Aena - MMO PVP tends to be horrendous and wastes dev time that would be better spent making PVE better. Real PVP'ers play real PVP games, not class based MMOs.
kellindil said:The only way I could endorse PvP was if there were REAL in game RP related drawbacks. Such as faction hits for killing other players that was not repairable. Griefing would come at a high cost. If you want to be a murderer, then you will be hated throughout the land and no longer be able to use merchants or enter main cities. You would be restricted to specific and sparse in game merchants that cost 2-3 times more and paid 2-3 times less for your vendor items. The black market isn't fair. I could get behind a system like this. If you kill someone in anything other than a /duel or in say RvR areas where its considered a "military" action then you are immediately KoS within most cities. As you continue killing you become KoS to everything, everywhere except some "assassin's den" where it is outragiously expensive to restock on food, water, potions, reagents, and ammo. Make it HURT to be a griefer. This brings a sense of immersion and realness to the game. Then I could get behind an open world all pvp game.
If you can curb the harassment and griefing, then i'm good, if not... then no PvP.
I like this with one exception. Guild wars. I think you should be able to war a limited number of guilds, and to prevent abuse, the declaration of war shouldn't necessarily allow war to take place immediately. That way, if you suddenly decide you don't like a guild with whom you are not at war (just because they're fighting a raid mob you wanted to kill), you can't just suddently attack them without suffering the faction penalty.
Limited guild wars so you cannot simply war every guild and have to pick your rivals wisely.
I do like the idea that killing a player unprovoked, result in a faction hit. However, I don't think it should be some permanent thing. It should be harsh, like any other faction hit from killing an NPC. Over time, you should be able to fix it.
This could be a sort of "in-between" PvP server ruleset for people who like PvP, but don't necessarily want a no holds barred kind of environment.
kellindil said:And for the love of god just normalize all dmg in PvP so that nothing is more powerful than anything else. Make anything except damage spells and such not work in PvP so that balance doesn't come into the equation. every damage ability just does 50 dmg (or 50dps, melee and spell casters might be done differently... maybe let everyone do the same dps over time regardless of how that dmg is done.) then it become more tactical rather than flavor of the month classes as everything is nerfed over and over in one giant circle.
I agree. In EQ they nerfed spell damage but left melee damage the same. That was because melee we're so weak early on when it came to DPS. That didn't last long, and it created an imbalance which forced people to play melee if they were serious about killing other players.
To start with, I am not at all in favor of pvp. Maybe it makes it fun for some of you but it is always a problem to those that do not like to pvp. If sitting there waiting fo another player, who is 2 levels below you, to get brought down to 40% health by a pve mob only to jump in and kill him and say "wow,I am tough" is your bag,well great for you. I sure hope you still feel that way when you get out of 5th grade.
And i know all you pvp ers will say " not me". Thats alright. We all know the truth.
But wht don't you just start on a pvp server and leave it be. I am so tired of the pvp ers in all the games wanting to force everyone to "enjoy" the pvp experiance. I DO NOT.
So stop the I want all servers to be pvp mentality and enjoy your game your way and let us enjoy it our way. Or maybe your afraid that if the whole server is like you then you ay have to kiss your behind goodbye more often than you think.
Just my opinion.
Thanks for reading it
Isaya said:To start with, I am not at all in favor of pvp. Maybe it makes it fun for some of you but it is always a problem to those that do not like to pvp. If sitting there waiting fo another player, who is 2 levels below you, to get brought down to 40% health by a pve mob only to jump in and kill him and say "wow,I am tough" is your bag,well great for you. I sure hope you still feel that way when you get out of 5th grade.
And i know all you pvp ers will say " not me". Thats alright. We all know the truth.
But wht don't you just start on a pvp server and leave it be. I am so tired of the pvp ers in all the games wanting to force everyone to "enjoy" the pvp experiance. I DO NOT.
So stop the I want all servers to be pvp mentality and enjoy your game your way and let us enjoy it our way. Or maybe your afraid that if the whole server is like you then you ay have to kiss your behind goodbye more often than you think.
Just my opinion.
Thanks for reading it
I think the understanding underlyinga PvE vs PvP debate is that all classes are not the same. Because all the classes are not the same does not mean they are imbalanced. If a caster were to get in the ring with a warrior and the warrior got their hands on the caster, the caster will die. If a caster got in the ring with another caster- now that's a fight.
Every other scenario that evolves from this- has its answer in social behavior and interaction. So proceed with your "what if's..." and imagine the outcomes and resolutions,inside.
If you are familair with PvE, it might be worth looking at the environments in PvP games, especially over contested content. You may find that there is only a history of contested content, but it is not, present.
If there is a memory of being frustrated in a PvE environment,it might be worth looking to see if that same frustration exists in a PvP environment, i.e. epic pieces any evidence of MQ'ing as a business.
Have the ruleset servers for pvp or roleplay..that should keep most happy. I used to pvp, but am more geared toward exploration, crafting etc these days, not as quick as I used to be. :P Daoc WAS my fave pvp game, (The Old Frontiers) Lotro wasn't bad, (The Ettenmoores) didn't like the "scenarios" in Warhammer (pvp in a box) preferred open field hunting...with villages off limits to recuperate, regen. LineageII was fun at times, but too full of botters..Enjoyed SWG, taking down gun turrets with my kicks..hehe So it is possible to cater to Pve and Pvp...just make it different servers, so that pvp on a ruleset server is catering to pvp. Where the other pve servers aren't ..balanced according to pvp. Up to the player which server they choose. Variety is the spice of life...and I hope that Pantheon makes that a possibility. So if one day, I want to try my hand at pvp again, I can create a character on a pvp ruleset and do that. :)
Cana
Definitely PVE! I love exploring, questing, and doing dungeons etc especially if I have a great group to do them with. My experience with PVP is that it is usually too chaotic, the goals are unclear and the zones are too large to play effectively. The only time I have ever enjoyed PVP (blasphemous as it may sound) is in WOW Warsong Gulch which was a simple concept with a clearly defined goal and a zone small enough that it was easy to play. When you capped that fl;ag it was exhilarating!
My preference has always been PVE, but I do love PVP when we are forming trinity groups to fight trinity groups, i love the opposing tactics clashing together and changing tactics on the fly, but unfortunately i havent enjoyed many fights on pvp servers that were not just a steam roll zerg from either my side or theirs so i got bored of it either way, it was never a complaint about being beaten but a complaint about being very uninspired/uninterested about the tactics used from either side... so it think i will be primarily on PVE side but will be very keen to do some group Arena PVP battles on the pve server and dabble here and there on a pvp server when there are a few guildies keen to migrate for a sesh here and there!