Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

The Ultimate Decision - PvE or PvP?

    • 763 posts
    October 24, 2016 9:13 AM PDT

    I perfectly well understand why people like PvP.

    The idea is exciting,

    it models real life

    it adds a certain 'survival' element to the game.

    I enjoy many aspects of it and have even played (a small amount) in many games where it was offerred. It has its drawbacks, of course.

    6 vs 1 ganking.

    Opportunistic ganking (wait for player to engage a mob)

    where, technically, you use the aggro mechanics as an exploit. If a few Orcs are figthing a human and another non-orc appears, they are likely to assume he is a valid target rather than rely on artificial 'aggro mechanics'. They would certainly take the opportunity to flank and kill the new arrival if he were so foolish as to attack his fellow non-orc and expose his flank to the orcs.

    However ....

    I would also say that almost all the negatives are for a single reason: A lack of risk, or consequence.

    PvP servers do not model human behaviour...

    ... beceause if a human dies, they stay dead!

    It is this 'get out of jail free' clause that allows people to join PvP servers and act as sociopaths without a care of consequence. It is likely that nearly all the things that turn people off from playing on a PvP server are those that this mechanism would remove (most of).

    NOW:Imagine a server ... where death was final (or you had 'lives').

    1. You could have full loot (if they lose their last life!) else a few items.

    2. Losing life = grevious injury and a nice scar!! (remember, chicks dig scars!)

    3. Gaining (back) Lives should be very very hard (quests, lengthy recouperation, dunno)

    4. Have a 'progeny' system so they can have an heir ready etc

    5. Make sure you have children before you run out of lives! (else leave server!!)

    6. Designate a few items as 'family heirlooms'

    Run it for a year (or 6-9 months), then re-start.

    1. People who have a played_time over a certain ammount, or level, or other metric, get recreated on the new server as progeny of an established family with some bonus items and titles to go with it!

    2. Top 50/25/10 players get some other prize/title

    3. Top number of players get their 'family' some factions, status etc

    4. Offer RL prizes (free slots on other servers/model of your char/framed 'survivor' award)

    This might get some interest in normally 'PvE only' players to try a PvP server. Established players would certainly stamp on 'new idiot gankers' etc. I would try this server. It would be scary ... but isn't that the point?


    This post was edited by Evoras at October 24, 2016 9:16 AM PDT
    • 38 posts
    October 24, 2016 9:14 AM PDT

    I like me some PvP, although I also enjoy PvE. It would be nice if some form of PvP is implemented on the PvE servers - not hardcore free for all, but perhaps something more in-line with Dark Age of Camelot, or LoTRO Ettenmoores. Even FFXI had a couple types of PvP that didn't get in the way of the PvE experience at all. I'm all for combining the two, but keeping them seperate enough so that they don't negatively effect one another. If that can't be achieved, I will likely roll on a PvP server. 

    I find that properly adding PvP to these games (Dark Age of Camelot, LoTRO, FFXI as examples of this) only has a positive effect on the community. 

    • 7 posts
    October 24, 2016 9:16 AM PDT

    I have always played PvP I started my first character on the Zek server and I plan to start a character on Pantheon PvP server. The amount of adrenaline pumping encounters goes up quiet a bit on a pvp server and I have always loved those moments. It also makes the game much more difficult and that risk/reward factor goes up a lot. Not only are you camping mobs but you have to be aware of potential threats from players as well and when you do finaly get what your after its very rewarding. The economy does not get flooded with items as easy and to make good progress you really have to create friends and out of those friends you do create they become much closer because you absolutely need each other to survive.

    When you go explore a new area alone on a PvP server just think of the increased risk factor compared to a PvE server that alone gives reason to have them.

    Dont get me wrong though I love PvE also and will have characters there but I am considering the PvP server a hard core mode.


    This post was edited by Durzo at October 24, 2016 10:00 AM PDT
    • 1778 posts
    October 24, 2016 9:24 AM PDT

    I enjoy them both, but it honestly depends on the genre or even different games in the genre. In Pantheons case I will likely have a character on both PvE and PvP servers. But yet again that depends on the rulesets work. Ultimately though what might tip the balance for me is to see how the "social experiment" works out on PvE. Clearly Im skeptical, but Im willing to wait and see.

     

    • 22 posts
    October 24, 2016 10:17 AM PDT

    To me PvP and PvE are two totally different experiences, and I don't mind to keep them separated at all.

    In WAR and RIFT I enjoyed PvP, and in VG and EQ2 I enjoyed PvE. But I don't think there was ever a game where I enjoyed both at the same time. Probably it would be too time consuming to 'focus' on both at the same time. For me, and maybe also for the developers.

    In PvE games I would like to see crafting (others) and harvesting (for me) as well as a deep lore and nice environment. In PvP games Im much more into balance gameplay, some sort of 'us vs them', and RvR PvP mechanics.

    Im looking at Phanteon for PvE primarily, and wouldn't mind if there is no PVP other then some dueling / arena action.

    • 166 posts
    October 24, 2016 10:28 AM PDT

    For me it depends on the type of game, but for MMORPGs I would definitly say, that I prefer PvE.

    But I would be ok with it, if there is PvP to some degree in Pantheon. It should just by far not be the main or most important part of the game.

    If it is to complicated or time consuming to balance the PvE and PvP parts of the game and therefore the PvP would negatively affect the PvE, then different servers for PvE and PvP would be the best solution.

     

    • 45 posts
    October 24, 2016 10:30 AM PDT

    Aena said:

    Hate PvP in MMORPGs and resent every bit of time and effort spent on it instead of improving the PvE.

    Totally agree.  If I want to play PVP, I go play a MOBA.  

    • 668 posts
    October 24, 2016 10:44 AM PDT

    I prefer a solid, long duration, PVE game.  Nothing like experiencing the world of Terminus and all of it's dangers and memories with new friends.  I can't wait to get lost in it, figuring out all the little secrets and seeing how the devs will need to change things as we discover some loops.  It is a journey I am anxiously waiting for...

     

    PvP - The reason I am drawn to PvP at times is because of the dynamic playing environment.  Even though some battlegrounds are the same layout, you seldom get the same match due to live player dynamics (group make up varies, play styles vary, different things happen, siutations present themselves, etc..)

    Now, get me a PvE environment that encourages a dynamic environment (one that is constantly different even in same zone) then that is a world I will hang out in for a lifetime.  Ideas to build this were already discussed (rare mob spawns, dynamic events triggered, changing weather or seasons, NPC mob migration, new perception quest triggers based on zones, etc...)

    • 18 posts
    October 24, 2016 11:26 AM PDT

    WoW did a pretty good job for that. You have gear that you earn thru PvP that is good for PvP and PvE gear comes from the game content.

    That way PvP is more like a mini-game, which is what it should be for an MMO in my opinion.

    • 902 posts
    October 24, 2016 12:00 PM PDT

    PvE all the way.

    My first experience with EQ1 was on a pvp server. I did the early safe stuff and got out into the bad wide world. Minding my own business, I was attacked by someone who was a higher level. That player then proceeded to kill me everytime I got my gear back. This went of for what seemed like an eternity, at least an hour and I was getting more and more frustrated. A friend of mine then logged on and I told her what was going down. She agreed to help me. That player attacked me yet again and the trap was sprung and she joined in. We almost had him down, when his guild showed up and took us both out. We tried to explain what had happened and they said some stuff and left.

    That left a total bad taste in my mouth and me and my friend moved servers. I was at the point that if the new server proved to be bad, that I was going to give up on EQ1. Thankfully, that was not the case and I enjoyed years of play and made lots of friends.

    I dabble now and then and then in PvE and do find it enjoyable, now that I know whats what. But that early experience has never left me and it tainted the whole PvP experience for years after. I dont begrudge players who want this, but I much prefer helping players than griefing them. I guess thats why I also hate contested mobs so much too.

     


    This post was edited by chenzeme at October 24, 2016 12:05 PM PDT
    • 14 posts
    October 24, 2016 12:10 PM PDT

    Only PvE.

    • 187 posts
    October 24, 2016 12:27 PM PDT

    I do like anxiety and thrill that comes with PvP, that survivalist feeling that Evoras pointed out. I also like that it enables players to be villans, a role which isn't typically assumed in real life (thankfully). I think it generates a facinating ripple in the fabric of the game's social sphere. Buuuut, all of that shouldn't be at the cost of the comradery we feel when we accomplish something great together in game.

    I have mixed feelings about having shards with different rulesets. I wish there could just be a middle ground solution to implement some form of PvP seamlessly in a PvE server.

    • 12 posts
    October 24, 2016 1:09 PM PDT

    I agree with the majority of people here. PvE for life! 

    • 523 posts
    October 24, 2016 1:39 PM PDT

    I love both, but only when done seperately.  For a raiding style MMO, I only want PvE.  But I absolutely adore PvP based MMOs that focus around that and have no raiding (Shadowbane, Crowfall).  Rarely do I like to mix them inside one game, though I did have some enjoyable moments in WoW and EQ2 battlegrounds. 


    This post was edited by Mathir at October 24, 2016 1:40 PM PDT
    • 7 posts
    October 24, 2016 2:54 PM PDT
    The PvP I think will be valuable in an mmo is campaign and mini game based PvP. You cover both your ends on people who want a quick fun distraction or those who want to work against players with a team. If you are speaking about an open PvP system in the world, I feel like that would change the dynamics or the game world itself so much that it would feel odd. Either way I love both equally here. I do wonder how balancing will go in a game with so many classes though.
    • 29 posts
    October 24, 2016 2:58 PM PDT

    PvE

    You can mix in PvP as long as you accept that you won't have balance in 1v1 pvp.

    • 7 posts
    October 24, 2016 3:27 PM PDT
    I strongly prefer PvE, but meaningful combinations of the two can be great additions. I prefer the "vP" aspect to be competing against players for "vE" objectives rather than killing each other (e.g., race against another group through a dungeon... winner gets the final boss with better loot... obviously that has plenty of issues, but that sort of thing)
    • 9115 posts
    October 24, 2016 4:04 PM PDT

    Nice replies, there are some great detail and a wide range of reasons in here which is awesome to see. :)

    • 2138 posts
    October 24, 2016 4:10 PM PDT

    I prefer PvE but I also like limited or targeted PvP- like a guild wars. 

    • 51 posts
    October 24, 2016 5:38 PM PDT

    I prefer pve.

    • 54 posts
    October 24, 2016 5:43 PM PDT
    I prefer PvE because I feel more immersed while playing and I can focus on the actual game itself and not have to watch my back for "DirtyLarry the Player Killer" while I'm fighting a mob. I am all for instanced PvP and objective based arena modes in a PvE server.

    My experience with open PvP games/servers was so bad that I turned to booze to forget the traumatizing experiences and shocking chats that I witnessed. I'm so glad Pantheon separates the two.
    • 120 posts
    October 24, 2016 5:52 PM PDT

    I prefer both. More stuff to do is always better. They also have 2 completely different competitivate natures that are enjoyable. Things I dislike is people being able to excel in one or the other with whatever is achievable in the other contet. I do think though PVP needs to have rewarding content at the same time to justify people throwing themselves at it.

    • 1399 posts
    October 24, 2016 5:58 PM PDT

    I plan to have at least one charrictor on each PVE and PvP. Many of my friends and my son are PvP only and I'll give it a try. But if there is too much griefing I'll stick with the PvE.

    It's not a given that PvP is a grief fest.. in EQ my son played PvP.. weeks would go by and him never need to fight or attack anybody. He said after you made level 15 or 20 it was more like RL.. you CAN kill people but you don't or people get to know you and your KOS to the world.

    I seen some of these post refer to PvP as faction based talking about "sides". If I recall old EQ correctly it was a free for all.. you could even kill your own.

    @Kilsin Can you reveal how Pantheon plans to do it yet?

    • 207 posts
    October 24, 2016 6:38 PM PDT
    I enjoy both pve and pvp but I have yet to find a game that did justice to both types of game play. As others have said, each type of play style affects the others, and it's frustrating dealing with the constant class balancing. The only way I think the two can work together is if you left the pvp to its own zones/arenas with its own special rules....basically mob levels will need to be altered, class balance, ect, while somehow not having a affect on the rules in the pve zones...which would be a nightmare to program lmao
    • 1434 posts
    October 24, 2016 7:48 PM PDT

    PvP for sure.

    PvP without solid PvE progression is boring though. That is why I think Pantheon has potential to be a big hit with PvP players. Most of them havent ever played an open world PvP MMO with meaningful contested progression. Nothing in any other pvp mmo (not daoc, sb, darkfall, mortal online et al) ever compared to fighting over dungeons and raid bosses in EverQuest.