Zorkon said:I plan to have at least one charrictor on each PVE and PvP. Many of my friends and my son are PvP only and I'll give it a try. But if there is too much griefing I'll stick with the PvE.
It's not a given that PvP is a grief fest.. in EQ my son played PvP.. weeks would go by and him never need to fight or attack anybody. He said after you made level 15 or 20 it was more like RL.. you CAN kill people but you don't or people get to know you and your KOS to the world.
I seen some of these post refer to PvP as faction based talking about "sides". If I recall old EQ correctly it was a free for all.. you could even kill your own.
@Kilsin Can you reveal how Pantheon plans to do it yet?
We don't have any info on PvP yet as PvE is our focus to get the game into pre-alpha testing, PvP will be something we most likely start to discuss during testing. :)
PvP has a way to attract the worst scum and the most toxic players . No principles, no problems to kill weaker players who have no possibility to defend, strong motivation is theft, harrassing and abusive behaviour (corpse camping&Co), predatory gangs kiiling everything that is weaker than them, no ethics .
First experience : UOL . I mostly enjoyed exploring and mining . PKs coming in my mine to just kill me to steal my hard acquired ingots and laughing at me in the process . Over and over . End of UOL .
Second experience : a few other games for a short yime
Third experience : SWTOR . Many years later but the same scum was there . I remember 3 guys each of them stronger than me explaining "We'll kill you just because we get a kick out of it" . End of SWTOR
PvP and MMORPG just don't mix in open world .
I play PvP in WoT, WWIIOL or MOBA .
But I'd like an MMORPG only PVE and pure PVE for me please .
I like both but I do not like pure PvP because as mentioned by others it does bring out the worse in people as well as make the game a bit boring (PvP as end content is not very exciting for me). But having the ability to do both in a game adds flavor to the existing and exciting content provided by the devs (PvE content).
There were 3 games I always returned to EQ, LOTRO and Archeage. Archeage had the best implementation of PvP/PvEd (well the PvE content wasn't as good) but I liked how it was first implemented. So you are safe in your factions zone for most of your leveling until you get to 30 and then you venture into contested zones. This can be dangeous as you can be killed by the opposing faction or your own faction! That is what makes it so interesting! Your own faction "could" attack you too! And if they did, blood stains are left so that those individuals can be reported and if convicted (yes, they had a court and jury!) sent to jail. That was pretty awesome.
Players got bad raps just like in other games and it was fun to help defend someone being attacked by same faction or opposite.
Now I don't think you have a ruleset that closely resembles this kind of play but I would prefer it even though I really suck at PvP. It makes life more interesting and allows me to be a hero when someone needs it. But I will go where the guild I join goes because games are so much better with a guild!
I actually returned to AA because it is a very pretty and fun game while I wait for Pantheon.
I would vote PvE.
PvE - This allows you to focus on creating content that falls in line with the group based dynamics.
PvP - This requires additional resources and causes the devs to make sure all classes have an equal combat footing. This leads to either their being different combat rules for PvP, and PvE content, or a some classes having their abilities reduced because they are "too powerful" when used against players.
I would be ok with a PvP arena where you could to 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 (and on...) as long as any "balance" changes are restricted to while you are in the PvP arena.
In my opinion it's impossible to balance classes if you mix PvP and PvE. The only way it works is completely different servers that don't allow geared transfer on or off. That way you can balance PvP without disrupting PvE and vice versa. To answer the original question, I never PvP in an MMO.
Deadshade said:PvP has a way to attract the worst scum and the most toxic players . No principles, no problems to kill weaker players who have no possibility to defend, strong motivation is theft, harrassing and abusive behaviour (corpse camping&Co), predatory gangs kiiling everything that is weaker than them, no ethics .
First experience : UOL . I mostly enjoyed exploring and mining . PKs coming in my mine to just kill me to steal my hard acquired ingots and laughing at me in the process . Over and over . End of UOL .
Second experience : a few other games for a short yime
Third experience : SWTOR . Many years later but the same scum was there . I remember 3 guys each of them stronger than me explaining "We'll kill you just because we get a kick out of it" . End of SWTOR
PvP and MMORPG just don't mix in open world .
I play PvP in WoT, WWIIOL or MOBA .
But I'd like an MMORPG only PVE and pure PVE for me please .
Sorry you missed EQ PvP.
Because the game revolved around heavy cooperative play and PvE progression, players were more grounded and did not usually gank or disrespect other players. Being an outlaw came at a price, and it made leveling and equipping much harder.
Having played on both PvE servers (Tarew Marr) and PvP (Rallos Zek), the general atmosphere and "principles" of the playerbase on RZ was much higher.
As I said on Twitter...I am PVE all the way. I have no love, nor desire, to have anything to do with PVP. I prefer that PVE servers remain separate from PVP.
That being said, I do understand that for many people, PVP is the way they prefer to play. That is their own opinion, and they are welcome to it. I have no reason nor right to tell them they are wrong in that playstyle.
I do very much prefer that PVP players have their own servers and rules etc. Now, as long as dueling is something that can be permanently denied by those of us who don't wish to have dueling invites spammed in our faces, that is fine on PVE servers imho.
All I ask is that there is no autoflagging for PVP on the PVE servers. In arenas, just give me a warning that this is a PVP area and give me the option to proceed and be temporarily flagged while in the arena. Don't just spring it on me!
Never liked PVP in games involving such a variety of classes/levels/abilities/talents/etc..... Way too much to try and balance out because there WILL be balance whining if PVP represents any realistic form of progression. If PVP is treated like it was in EQ regarding class balance I don't mind it. I will not be participating much myself but as long as my characters are not effected by it, have no issue with others participating.
Arena pvp would be fine for duels and guild challenges for bragging rights. Have a tourney every month with prizes and maybe a special symbol for the players guild tag for the champion guild. Make it special. Maybe players could bet coin on teams to win a match. Winnings would come from the pool of money bet on the match. Odds figured by the amount bet on the team(s) as a percent of the total pool of money. Like they do for horse racing today. Have a designated day and time of the month for the tourney that fits into the lore. Players could sit in the stands and watch the action.
i wouldn't want the classes changed for pvp purposes. There are others games coming that are pvp focused.
PvE here also, mostly for reasons already mentioned. Keeping PvP and PvE on separate servers as is planned seems to be the best solution. I might try creating a character on a PvP server, though I am not an aggressive person and my first instinct is to help someone, not kill them, so it may be short lived. Since balance seems to be the hardest issue, perhaps just make one class that can do a little bit of everything, and let everyone play that. Then "skill" will truly determine the outcome. Well, perhaps that and level, gear, addons, and ping:)
Dullahan said:Deadshade said:PvP has a way to attract the worst scum and the most toxic players . No principles, no problems to kill weaker players who have no possibility to defend, strong motivation is theft, harrassing and abusive behaviour (corpse camping&Co), predatory gangs kiiling everything that is weaker than them, no ethics .
First experience : UOL . I mostly enjoyed exploring and mining . PKs coming in my mine to just kill me to steal my hard acquired ingots and laughing at me in the process . Over and over . End of UOL .
Second experience : a few other games for a short yime
Third experience : SWTOR . Many years later but the same scum was there . I remember 3 guys each of them stronger than me explaining "We'll kill you just because we get a kick out of it" . End of SWTOR
PvP and MMORPG just don't mix in open world .
I play PvP in WoT, WWIIOL or MOBA .
But I'd like an MMORPG only PVE and pure PVE for me please .
Sorry you missed EQ PvP.
Because the game revolved around heavy cooperative play and PvE progression, players were more grounded and did not usually gank or disrespect other players. Being an outlaw came at a price, and it made leveling and equipping much harder.
Having played on both PvE servers (Tarew Marr) and PvP (Rallos Zek), the general atmosphere and "principles" of the playerbase on RZ was much higher.
I had a short adventure on a PvP Realm vs Realm server with my friends. We got hit on by a lvl 4 high elf to our lvl 2 dwarves. 3 of us little guys were trying to kill him and a bunch of high levels sitting near by didn't do much. Then a stupid level 5 wood elf jumped in and all hell broke lose. The high level group got up and completely healed us and chased after the annoying wood elf. We then managed to kill the evil high elf. That was fun and I see what you mean by the community. However those days of PvP are gone. I have yet to see this kind of community in the last few mmos I've played (WoW, WAR, Rift, AA or BDO). But who is to say. Perhaps it will be like the old days again.
Kilsin said:Do you prefer PvE or PvP or Both, and what draws you to that style over the other?
Disclaimer: We have already stated that we will be PvE based and PvP servers will be separate and have no effect on PvE. :)
PVP baby!!! There is nothing better then coming across your arch enemy as they are raiding the Uber dragon of Epic badassery waiting until they have it at 5 percent and then rolling in like a Boss and curb stomping there raid force into the ground. Then you steal the mob kill it and gate away before they can kill you because that makes it even more EPIC. Not to mention Player driven policing of the community is much easier to achieve.
Plus a Bounty system for jerks please would be amazing. Granted some people would try very hard to get the highest bounty possibly. Kalgore EVE pilot Bounty 10.5 billion ISK :D
PvE
I don't mind PvP in MMOs but I don't think the genre lends itself well to PvP. Once you introduce PvP you get the inevitable complaints that "Class X is OP" or "Ability Y is game breaking" leading to an infinite regression of nerfs and "balances" to the PvE game to accomodate PvP. Once a game is on that treadmill you begin getting homogenization of classes based on the idea that every class should be "effective" in PvP. In principle I think that open world PvP should be the default for an MMO but I've never seen a development team that didn't eventually cave to the whining about PvP imbalances and start trying to hammer the square peg into a round hole.
Dullahan said:PvP for sure.
PvP without solid PvE progression is boring though. That is why I think Pantheon has potential to be a big hit with PvP players. Most of them havent ever played an open world PvP MMO with meaningful contested progression. Nothing in any other pvp mmo (not daoc, sb, darkfall, mortal online et al) ever compared to fighting over dungeons and raid bosses in EverQuest.
PvP. Dullahan gets it right here.
It's making me a little sad to see all the PvP haters in this thread though. When the PvP server launches, you should all come play with me and I'll show you how fun it can be. <3
For me it's PVE all the way. I enjoy the story aspects, the immersion of a well made journey and grouping up with friends to overcome obstacles which you wouldn't be able to do solo. Camaraderie. Although with saying that those aspects aren't exclusive to PVE, they also can fit PVP.
I like a more structured journey. I rarely get any fun out of running around getting ganked whether it's from an opposing faction or from within my own. I have done a bit of PVP but it normally just irritates me.
I do find it amusing and irritating when pro PVP people make sweeping statements implying that PVE is boring and should only be a vehicle to get to PVP, I disagree. People need to remember that different people like different things. Both PVE and PVP can be integrated together to form a fun journey for the PVPers.
I think having PVP in an online game is important. It adds another dimension to the game and therefore should keep a larger group of people interested in the game. I think if Pantheon does get enough interest from the Community for PVP then having a server that is open world PVP would be the way to give the PVPers what they want.
~~~ <()> ~~~
Valor and virtue ride with me, my blade defends the helpless,
my might upholds the weak, my words speak only truth,
my wrath undoes the wicked!
<~ Vaultarn Stormborn ~>
Sylee said:Dullahan said:PvP for sure.
PvP without solid PvE progression is boring though. That is why I think Pantheon has potential to be a big hit with PvP players. Most of them havent ever played an open world PvP MMO with meaningful contested progression. Nothing in any other pvp mmo (not daoc, sb, darkfall, mortal online et al) ever compared to fighting over dungeons and raid bosses in EverQuest.
PvP. Dullahan gets it right here.
It's making me a little sad to see all the PvP haters in this thread though. When the PvP server launches, you should all come play with me and I'll show you how fun it can be. <3
I will definitely come and check it out with you folks and I know some other team members will be keen also, mind you I will have GM immunity on and a buff to magnetize all incoming damage by 1000% and return it to the owner but I will be there haha :D
P.S. This hate is mild compared to what the VG community gave you guys back in the day lol ;)