Riqq said:I literally hope it takes 16 hours to get from one side of the world to the other without aid of buffs or portal masters
I am for that, but I doubt they could design that much content. There is a sweet spot to a players run speed that doesn't look like it is "forced". Granted a lot of this is due to animation and the speed of traversal, but you can only make someone move so slow before it doesn't look right. The same is in how fast the move (which is why modern games look so silly in how the players are racing through content at enormous pace).
To make the game where a player has to run 16 hours from one side to the next, it would take an ENORMOUS amount of content to achieve that. That is, they would need to build a current EQ (with all of its 20 expansions) and then relegate players to the original run speed of the game and then maybe you would get that level of travel time.
I would love it, but... they dont' have the budget for that as an intial release.
I would be happy with 3+ hours or so to run from one side of the game to the other without aid of boats, ports, or run speed (longer if they can make it possible, but that is an acceptable distance to make the world feel bigger). I think that with ports without run speed buffs, an hour or so, with run speed buffs and ports, around 45 mins or so. The point is, a group should go through a process of evaluating the time it takes to get somewhere to the point where they need to "plan" for later groupings.
The benefit of this is that it actually allows for a higher population servers to provide content to those who are willing to take the journey. If a particular zone is popular, most people will group there, leaving the adventurous and risk takers the ability to go out, explore and find new areas to group in that are "out of the way" because most players want the easy fast grouping results of a popular dungeon. If everywhere is easy to get to, then every place will be packed.
Akilae said:Tanix said:Riqq said:I literally hope it takes 16 hours to get from one side of the world to the other without aid of buffs or portal masters
I am for that
Is it fair to say that you are also not in favor of an "autorun" function or keybind?
What is the logical process that allowed you to come to that assumption?
Tanix said:Akilae said:Tanix said:Riqq said:I literally hope it takes 16 hours to get from one side of the world to the other without aid of buffs or portal masters
I am for that
Is it fair to say that you are also not in favor of an "autorun" function or keybind?
What is the logical process that allowed you to come to that assumption?
You want travel to be part of the overall experience of the game. You don't want it to be quick, in fact you appear to want it to be as slow as it can be without making it seem ridiculous. If travel is part of the experience then autorun would run counter to your stated preferences in that you can just point in a compass direction, hit autorun and then go watch a video or read a book thus taking the whole "experience" part out of the equation.
So I'm curious. What are your thoughts on autorun?
Akilae said:Tanix said:Akilae said:Tanix said:Riqq said:I literally hope it takes 16 hours to get from one side of the world to the other without aid of buffs or portal masters
I am for that
Is it fair to say that you are also not in favor of an "autorun" function or keybind?
What is the logical process that allowed you to come to that assumption?
You want travel to be part of the overall experience of the game. You don't want it to be quick, in fact you appear to want it to be as slow as it can be without making it seem ridiculous. If travel is part of the experience then autorun would run counter to your stated preferences in that you can just point in a compass direction, hit autorun and then go watch a video or read a book thus taking the whole "experience" part out of the equation.
So I'm curious. What are your thoughts on autorun?
Autorun only counters your interaction with the keyboard. I could care less if you are sitting there pressing the key or watching the screen while you are on autorun. My point is time spent in game play, if your character spends 15 mins running from A to B, you touching the keyboard or not is irrelevant.
Now if you have been paying attention to my discussion in other threads, you would also note that I don't think travel should be without danger. That is, I am against "safe" roads in the game. Don't think that to mean that I think you should be FORCED to fight through wave after wave of mobs to get from point A to B (if In a dungeon I think this should be, but that is a different reason and discussion), but in lets say a zone you are running along some planes to another location, I think that there should be a "chance" for some roaming mob to agro and attack you, even though you are on a specific road or what appears to be a safe passage area (note I STRONGLY disagree with Brad on safe roads through zones, there should be NO such thing).
So, you can go ahead, put on auto-run and watch your youtube as you run, but... you may miss that some roaming mob passes you and attacks. How often that should happen, I think is a "tunable" aspect of paly. I think they should make it where you have to be "somewhat" attention focused as something could "jump out" or cross paths with you, even mobs WAY higher level that could one shot you (which is why I love the multi-level mobs content in a single zone, keeps people on their toes).
That said, you being at the keyboard or not does not change the fact of time in travel and how travel time has an overall effect on game play in a multiplayer game. You taking time to get somewhere has subtle results in play in everything from progression time, grouping choices, and so many other areas.
Tanix said:Akilae said:Tanix said:Akilae said:Tanix said:Riqq said:I literally hope it takes 16 hours to get from one side of the world to the other without aid of buffs or portal masters
I am for that
Is it fair to say that you are also not in favor of an "autorun" function or keybind?
What is the logical process that allowed you to come to that assumption?
You want travel to be part of the overall experience of the game. You don't want it to be quick, in fact you appear to want it to be as slow as it can be without making it seem ridiculous. If travel is part of the experience then autorun would run counter to your stated preferences in that you can just point in a compass direction, hit autorun and then go watch a video or read a book thus taking the whole "experience" part out of the equation.
So I'm curious. What are your thoughts on autorun?
Autorun only counters your interaction with the keyboard. I could care less if you are sitting there pressing the key or watching the screen while you are on autorun. My point is time spent in game play, if your character spends 15 mins running from A to B, you touching the keyboard or not is irrelevant.
Now if you have been paying attention to my discussion in other threads, you would also note that I don't think travel should be without danger. That is, I am against "safe" roads in the game. Don't think that to mean that I think you should be FORCED to fight through wave after wave of mobs to get from point A to B (if In a dungeon I think this should be, but that is a different reason and discussion), but in lets say a zone you are running along some planes to another location, I think that there should be a "chance" for some roaming mob to agro and attack you, even though you are on a specific road or what appears to be a safe passage area (note I STRONGLY disagree with Brad on safe roads through zones, there should be NO such thing).
So, you can go ahead, put on auto-run and watch your youtube as you run, but... you may miss that some roaming mob passes you and attacks. How often that should happen, I think is a "tunable" aspect of paly. I think they should make it where you have to be "somewhat" attention focused as something could "jump out" or cross paths with you, even mobs WAY higher level that could one shot you (which is why I love the multi-level mobs content in a single zone, keeps people on their toes).
That said, you being at the keyboard or not does not change the fact of time in travel and how travel time has an overall effect on game play in a multiplayer game. You taking time to get somewhere has subtle results in play in everything from progression time, grouping choices, and so many other areas.
Then it seems your only interest in slow travel is to make the world seem bigger and to increase the risk in careless gameplay (which is largely handled via corpse runs/dragging but no matter). The first will only be a factor until a player becomes familiar with the world. Afterward slow travel only makes it take longer to get where you want to be. That and the second bit are purely punitive.
Granted, there is value in travel not being instantaneous. I don't want instant travel either (nor do I have anything against an hour or more spent recovering from a raid wipe waiting for your corpse to be dragged to you). But I can't see anything wrong with mounts, buffs and druid/wizard ports to speed up travel to places you're likely already familiar with. Time sinks are fine so long as they're interactive. The 10th or 100th time you travel to Zone X you're no longer interested in the scenery, you just want to get there.
Another question for you:
What do you think about "soul binding" as in EQ or similar mechanics in other games? Should we always spawn at our starting city when we die?
Akilae said:
What do you think about "soul binding" as in EQ or similar mechanics in other games? Should we always spawn at our starting city when we die?
IMO, players should not be able to bind just anywhere. I'm OK with melee only being bound in cities, and casters have to be bound near a binding stone or something that can be scattered around the world, but not just bind themselves anywhere at will.
Akilae said:Tanix said:Akilae said:Tanix said:Akilae said:Tanix said:Riqq said:I literally hope it takes 16 hours to get from one side of the world to the other without aid of buffs or portal masters
I am for that
Is it fair to say that you are also not in favor of an "autorun" function or keybind?
What is the logical process that allowed you to come to that assumption?
You want travel to be part of the overall experience of the game. You don't want it to be quick, in fact you appear to want it to be as slow as it can be without making it seem ridiculous. If travel is part of the experience then autorun would run counter to your stated preferences in that you can just point in a compass direction, hit autorun and then go watch a video or read a book thus taking the whole "experience" part out of the equation.
So I'm curious. What are your thoughts on autorun?
Autorun only counters your interaction with the keyboard. I could care less if you are sitting there pressing the key or watching the screen while you are on autorun. My point is time spent in game play, if your character spends 15 mins running from A to B, you touching the keyboard or not is irrelevant.
Now if you have been paying attention to my discussion in other threads, you would also note that I don't think travel should be without danger. That is, I am against "safe" roads in the game. Don't think that to mean that I think you should be FORCED to fight through wave after wave of mobs to get from point A to B (if In a dungeon I think this should be, but that is a different reason and discussion), but in lets say a zone you are running along some planes to another location, I think that there should be a "chance" for some roaming mob to agro and attack you, even though you are on a specific road or what appears to be a safe passage area (note I STRONGLY disagree with Brad on safe roads through zones, there should be NO such thing).
So, you can go ahead, put on auto-run and watch your youtube as you run, but... you may miss that some roaming mob passes you and attacks. How often that should happen, I think is a "tunable" aspect of paly. I think they should make it where you have to be "somewhat" attention focused as something could "jump out" or cross paths with you, even mobs WAY higher level that could one shot you (which is why I love the multi-level mobs content in a single zone, keeps people on their toes).
That said, you being at the keyboard or not does not change the fact of time in travel and how travel time has an overall effect on game play in a multiplayer game. You taking time to get somewhere has subtle results in play in everything from progression time, grouping choices, and so many other areas.
Then it seems your only interest in slow travel is to make the world seem bigger and to increase the risk in careless gameplay (which is largely handled via corpse runs/dragging but no matter). The first will only be a factor until a player becomes familiar with the world. Afterward slow travel only makes it take longer to get where you want to be. That and the second bit are purely punitive.
The first will be reduced "some" by learning the world, but as I said, the world must always remain large and so even the high level player will need to deal with travel time in zones they learn the routes.
For instance, traveling to Kelethin (I think someone in on this site brought up this very point once), here is the map:
Notice how if you knew the zone, you could more easily travel from Butcherblock (a main crossing zone) to Kelethin? Heck, if you knew the area, knew the location, knew the pathing of mobs (there are dangerous mobs that will one shot evil alignments roaming), you could more quickly get to the city? Sure, time is "cut down", but it is not eliminated. Even with run speed, time is time to travel. The thing to avoid is saying "well, everyone will learn it anyway, so might as well let them instant travel after that because... well... travel is boring, etc..." and THAT is the point. Travel must ALWAYS be an impediment, not matter if someone thinks it is "boring" or "a time waster". This is what keeps travel relevant and the ability to "reduce" that time through speed solutions important. It is also why speed solutions should never invalidate the travel as an obstacle, only make it "less" of an obstacle.
Akilae said:Granted, there is value in travel not being instantaneous. I don't want instant travel either (nor do I have anything against an hour or more spent recovering from a raid wipe waiting for your corpse to be dragged to you). But I can't see anything wrong with mounts, buffs and druid/wizard ports to speed up travel to places you're likely already familiar with. Time sinks are fine so long as they're interactive. The 10th or 100th time you travel to Zone X you're no longer interested in the scenery, you just want to get there.
Travel always needs to be an obstacle, period. Remove it, you remove game play and then you remove yet another component that gives us the dumbed down modern MMOs of today. We can't "pick and choose" as what you want easy, someone else wants something else to be easy and what makes your opinon on what should be removed as an obstacle more important than someone else? I think all obstacles are important, regardless if one gets "bored" with it.
Akilae said:Another question for you:
What do you think about "soul binding" as in EQ or similar mechanics in other games? Should we always spawn at our starting city when we die?
Originally that mechainic was a bug (ie melee could only bind in cities, casters could bind anywhere). What I think is, I liked the city only mechanic, but... I do beleive in the pros/cons of class design. So, I think in terms of such balance that melee being of no caster based nature should be able to bind anywhere other than "major city" based areas (includes some ruins, and the like and only with a casters spell cast on them by another player) and casters should be able to bind... "most" places, though I would make it more limited than EQ (maybe having magical focus points in various zones where they could bind).
The idea is to balance out some aspects of play. Casters can generally offer services to remedy corpse recoveries. So, I would like them to be a "bit" closer to help in the process of recovery, but still create a sense of time requirement in play. This has to be balanced well as I don't want casters getting an easy out either, so maybe some hardships between the caster bind locations and that of major areas? Something that forces them to use all their tricks, spells, and knowledge of the zone to get safely back to the zone entrance.
As a monk, I was often used as the one to CR the corpses in a zone. So, I often had to run back to the dungeons from the main cities (after getting a speed buff from someone). The journey was always... tricky, dangerous (lots of mobs that would agro, see invis if I had invis cast on me, etc...). So I would like "some" of that placed on casters rather than allowing them to easily bind anywhere.
Though if it was an all or nothing, I would say yes... ALL must bind in a city, nowhere else.