@BamBam
That is the benefit of being a teleportation class. I was a Paladin and it took me an hour or 2 sometimes to get across the content to the destination I wanted to go. Of course without a map and knowing where I was going it took longer than it should of. So are you saying you want all classes to accomplish that, or just the teleportation classes?
DracoKalen said:IRL when I go on vacation is a 2.5 hour drive to the house, that's not an obstacle it's the beginning of the adventure
Ok so a thought - is the 2.5 hour drive to your vacation home the same adventure as the 3 minute walk to your neighbor‘s house?
BamBam said: I would also like an epic long quest that provide an item with heartstone tp spell, with 1 day Cooldown (a teleportation to your bound place). I would also like players to be abel to teleport if they moved to a druid ring or wizard spire. But that's just my 2 cents.
And that will make teleporters useless in the end then. I assume they will go the route of teleporters having to be at a spire/druid ring to even teleport a player to begin with. So no, I think you would have gone to far on that.
BamBam said: @Tanix You intrepid my words completely wrong.. I played a wizard in eq for years. Most of my traveling was max 30 min. anywhere I wanted to go in the world. I don't know what game you played, or how many mins you spend deciding directions and so on.. For me 30 min could take me anywhere. This is a time limit to give an idea of how far I would like to travel, for a grp or guild. Here I will plan on using teleportation and movement speed buffs. So please stop intrepid my words to agru against me, to make your own point come through. It's frankly beening very rude!
Please leave your emotions at the door. My questions and discussion are entirely logically oriented, I could care less about offending you, so do us both a favor and cut out the "I am offended" garbage. My intent is not to attack, it is to get to the specifics of an arguments claim.
I would contest the claim of 30 mins to anywhere as a wizard, maybe possible as a druid (them using their self only run buff maybe). The fact is, it took more time than that with ports alone (unless you played later EQ). Heck, just running through a single zone without run speed buffs could take you 5-10 mins or more.
Point is, you stated you wanted 15-30 min max for travel anywhere, and I contest a game that achieves this is not an obstacle in travel, it is a modern convience of such, serving modern mainstream focus. Travel should exist as a major impediment, with specialized classes "lessening" this obstacle, but not invalidating it. EQ in many ways provided this, though at certain times it failed in this process. I would like the original concept of travel as an obstacle to stay consistent in Pantheon, even for "fast travel" classes. That is, I want even the fast travel classes to see such as an obstacle, which would then almost force all other classes to seek those fast travel classes for aid.
I care about game play, not individual preference or desire in game play and I think I have been pretty consistent in this position throughout topics.
BamBam said: I would also like an epic long quest that provide an item with heartstone tp spell, with 1 day Cooldown (a teleportation to your bound place). I would also like players to be abel to teleport if they moved to a druid ring or wizard spire. But that's just my 2 cents.
EQ1 had, eventually, introduced this in the Luclin expansion. The portal would auto-teleport every 10 or 15 minutes. I think EQ2 had this as well in a few spots. Standing around waiting 15 minutes is the price you pay for the convenience factor of not having to find a class that can teleport you.
I wouldn't be against gate potions to allow non-porting classes to return to their bind point either. I see returning FROM someplace as less of an issue wtih respect to keeping travel time as an important part of the game than I do getting TO someplace.
Tanix said:BamBam said: @Tanix You intrepid my words completely wrong.. I played a wizard in eq for years. Most of my traveling was max 30 min. anywhere I wanted to go in the world. I don't know what game you played, or how many mins you spend deciding directions and so on.. For me 30 min could take me anywhere. This is a time limit to give an idea of how far I would like to travel, for a grp or guild. Here I will plan on using teleportation and movement speed buffs. So please stop intrepid my words to agru against me, to make your own point come through. It's frankly beening very rude!
Please leave your emotions at the door. My questions and discussion are entirely logically oriented, I could care less about offending you, so do us both a favor and cut out the "I am offended" garbage. My intent is not to attack, it is to get to the specifics of an arguments claim.
I would contest the claim of 30 mins to anywhere as a wizard, maybe possible as a druid (them using their self only run buff maybe). The fact is, it took more time than that with ports alone (unless you played later EQ). Heck, just running through a single zone without run speed buffs could take you 5-10 mins or more.
Point is, you stated you wanted 15-30 min max for travel anywhere, and I contest a game that achieves this is not an obstacle in travel, it is a modern convience of such, serving modern mainstream focus. Travel should exist as a major impediment, with specialized classes "lessening" this obstacle, but not invalidating it. EQ in many ways provided this, though at certain times it failed in this process. I would like the original concept of travel as an obstacle to stay consistent in Pantheon, even for "fast travel" classes. That is, I want even the fast travel classes to see such as an obstacle, which would then almost force all other classes to seek those fast travel classes for aid.
I care about game play, not individual preference or desire in game play and I think I have been pretty consistent in this position throughout topics.
True. Sometimes the things I find really annoying back in EQ, like corpse runs, are something that should be in the game imo. I didn't like it, which means it was a good penalty to deal with because it made me more hyper aware of my surroundings. I do agree with you that making penalties and travel and such convienent makes the game sooooo much worse off in gameplay in the end.
DracoKalen said:Watemper said:@DracoKalen
I am so confused on your posisition...same with BamBam lol.
Have you played EQ?
If so, Do you believe that traveling from Qeynos to Freeport, both towns, should be instant or should require time to get there?...much like your vacation taking 2.5 hours.
No in a previous post I stated I had never played EQ. But that really isn't the point of this thread. Just an example Tanix gave as why he doesn't like horses and other things that decrease travel time.
Not sure why you'd be confused. I feel travel is part of the adventure, not an obstacle. There can be obstacles as you travel (Bandits/undead/wild critters) but travel itself is not an obstacle. If travel time is made interesting I have no problem with it but just to insert it as a time sink is a waste of players time, neither fulfilling or meaningful.
Everytihng in a game like this is a balanced "time sink" in terms of risk vs reward. The time to get to a far off land is balanced by the effort and risk it takes to get there. Time to get there is a component of play, and this is EXACTLY why spells like "run speed", "ports", "Weight retrictions on run speed", etc... all exist. They are game play components that control how a game works, how you achieve, how you excel, it is the essence of an cRPG system to develop your character in the face of obstacles to overcome them.
Do you have a history with cRPGs? This is standard concept for the genre.
Vandraad said:BamBam said: I would also like an epic long quest that provide an item with heartstone tp spell, with 1 day Cooldown (a teleportation to your bound place). I would also like players to be abel to teleport if they moved to a druid ring or wizard spire. But that's just my 2 cents.EQ1 had, eventually, introduced this in the Luclin expansion. The portal would auto-teleport every 10 or 15 minutes. I think EQ2 had this as well in a few spots. Standing around waiting 15 minutes is the price you pay for the convenience factor of not having to find a class that can teleport you.
I wouldn't be against gate potions to allow non-porting classes to return to their bind point either. I see returning FROM someplace as less of an issue wtih respect to keeping travel time as an important part of the game than I do getting TO someplace.
And Luclin was the start of the downfall of EQ for many reasons...that being one of them. The bazaar was another and POK(POP) was the last straw in killing the game for a lot of people.
Watemper said:Tanix said:BamBam said: @Tanix You intrepid my words completely wrong.. I played a wizard in eq for years. Most of my traveling was max 30 min. anywhere I wanted to go in the world. I don't know what game you played, or how many mins you spend deciding directions and so on.. For me 30 min could take me anywhere. This is a time limit to give an idea of how far I would like to travel, for a grp or guild. Here I will plan on using teleportation and movement speed buffs. So please stop intrepid my words to agru against me, to make your own point come through. It's frankly beening very rude!
Please leave your emotions at the door. My questions and discussion are entirely logically oriented, I could care less about offending you, so do us both a favor and cut out the "I am offended" garbage. My intent is not to attack, it is to get to the specifics of an arguments claim.
I would contest the claim of 30 mins to anywhere as a wizard, maybe possible as a druid (them using their self only run buff maybe). The fact is, it took more time than that with ports alone (unless you played later EQ). Heck, just running through a single zone without run speed buffs could take you 5-10 mins or more.
Point is, you stated you wanted 15-30 min max for travel anywhere, and I contest a game that achieves this is not an obstacle in travel, it is a modern convience of such, serving modern mainstream focus. Travel should exist as a major impediment, with specialized classes "lessening" this obstacle, but not invalidating it. EQ in many ways provided this, though at certain times it failed in this process. I would like the original concept of travel as an obstacle to stay consistent in Pantheon, even for "fast travel" classes. That is, I want even the fast travel classes to see such as an obstacle, which would then almost force all other classes to seek those fast travel classes for aid.
I care about game play, not individual preference or desire in game play and I think I have been pretty consistent in this position throughout topics.
True. Sometimes the things I find really annoying back in EQ, like corpse runs, are something that should be in the game imo. I didn't like it, which means it was a good penalty to deal with because it made me more hyper aware of my surroundings. I do agree with you that making penalties and travel and such convienent makes the game sooooo much worse off in gameplay in the end.
Yep, point me to a game where everyone sees every obstacle as "fun" and I point you to a game only the bored and inept are playing.
Syrif said:DracoKalen said:IRL when I go on vacation is a 2.5 hour drive to the house, that's not an obstacle it's the beginning of the adventure
Ok so a thought - is the 2.5 hour drive to your vacation home the same adventure as the 3 minute walk to your neighbor‘s house?
Well now your talking apples and oranges. Driving the 2.5 hours there's new stuff as well as the old stuff I'm familiar with. Walking over to my neighbors house I wouldn't consider traveling, of course with their dogs it can get a bit exciting.
Tanix said:Watemper said:Tanix said:BamBam said: @Tanix You intrepid my words completely wrong.. I played a wizard in eq for years. Most of my traveling was max 30 min. anywhere I wanted to go in the world. I don't know what game you played, or how many mins you spend deciding directions and so on.. For me 30 min could take me anywhere. This is a time limit to give an idea of how far I would like to travel, for a grp or guild. Here I will plan on using teleportation and movement speed buffs. So please stop intrepid my words to agru against me, to make your own point come through. It's frankly beening very rude!
Please leave your emotions at the door. My questions and discussion are entirely logically oriented, I could care less about offending you, so do us both a favor and cut out the "I am offended" garbage. My intent is not to attack, it is to get to the specifics of an arguments claim.
I would contest the claim of 30 mins to anywhere as a wizard, maybe possible as a druid (them using their self only run buff maybe). The fact is, it took more time than that with ports alone (unless you played later EQ). Heck, just running through a single zone without run speed buffs could take you 5-10 mins or more.
Point is, you stated you wanted 15-30 min max for travel anywhere, and I contest a game that achieves this is not an obstacle in travel, it is a modern convience of such, serving modern mainstream focus. Travel should exist as a major impediment, with specialized classes "lessening" this obstacle, but not invalidating it. EQ in many ways provided this, though at certain times it failed in this process. I would like the original concept of travel as an obstacle to stay consistent in Pantheon, even for "fast travel" classes. That is, I want even the fast travel classes to see such as an obstacle, which would then almost force all other classes to seek those fast travel classes for aid.
I care about game play, not individual preference or desire in game play and I think I have been pretty consistent in this position throughout topics.
True. Sometimes the things I find really annoying back in EQ, like corpse runs, are something that should be in the game imo. I didn't like it, which means it was a good penalty to deal with because it made me more hyper aware of my surroundings. I do agree with you that making penalties and travel and such convienent makes the game sooooo much worse off in gameplay in the end.
Yep, point me to a game where everyone sees every obstacle as "fun" and I point you to a game only the bored and inept are playing.
If you're playing a game and you don't find it fun that's called work. And I know folks who played EQ and played other games with me and they found EQ fun as well. So enough of the l33t tude.
DracoKalen said:Tanix said:Watemper said:Tanix said:BamBam said: @Tanix You intrepid my words completely wrong.. I played a wizard in eq for years. Most of my traveling was max 30 min. anywhere I wanted to go in the world. I don't know what game you played, or how many mins you spend deciding directions and so on.. For me 30 min could take me anywhere. This is a time limit to give an idea of how far I would like to travel, for a grp or guild. Here I will plan on using teleportation and movement speed buffs. So please stop intrepid my words to agru against me, to make your own point come through. It's frankly beening very rude!
Please leave your emotions at the door. My questions and discussion are entirely logically oriented, I could care less about offending you, so do us both a favor and cut out the "I am offended" garbage. My intent is not to attack, it is to get to the specifics of an arguments claim.
I would contest the claim of 30 mins to anywhere as a wizard, maybe possible as a druid (them using their self only run buff maybe). The fact is, it took more time than that with ports alone (unless you played later EQ). Heck, just running through a single zone without run speed buffs could take you 5-10 mins or more.
Point is, you stated you wanted 15-30 min max for travel anywhere, and I contest a game that achieves this is not an obstacle in travel, it is a modern convience of such, serving modern mainstream focus. Travel should exist as a major impediment, with specialized classes "lessening" this obstacle, but not invalidating it. EQ in many ways provided this, though at certain times it failed in this process. I would like the original concept of travel as an obstacle to stay consistent in Pantheon, even for "fast travel" classes. That is, I want even the fast travel classes to see such as an obstacle, which would then almost force all other classes to seek those fast travel classes for aid.
I care about game play, not individual preference or desire in game play and I think I have been pretty consistent in this position throughout topics.
True. Sometimes the things I find really annoying back in EQ, like corpse runs, are something that should be in the game imo. I didn't like it, which means it was a good penalty to deal with because it made me more hyper aware of my surroundings. I do agree with you that making penalties and travel and such convienent makes the game sooooo much worse off in gameplay in the end.
Yep, point me to a game where everyone sees every obstacle as "fun" and I point you to a game only the bored and inept are playing.
If you're playing a game and you don't find it fun that's called work. And I know folks who played EQ and played other games with me and they found EQ fun as well. So enough of the l33t tude.
Success without failure is not achievement. Enjoyment comes from the process of failing and eventually succeeding over the obstacle, not the failing itself. If you can not fail, you achieved nothing and you have accomplished nothing more than wasting time.
This is the deliniation from mainstream gaming and that of older systems. One wants entertainment, they do not want a game, because they do not want to fail becausing failing "is not fun" and so you end up with bland, mundane systems of constant pat on the backs for the bored and inept.
Watemper said:Vandraad said:BamBam said: I would also like an epic long quest that provide an item with heartstone tp spell, with 1 day Cooldown (a teleportation to your bound place). I would also like players to be abel to teleport if they moved to a druid ring or wizard spire. But that's just my 2 cents.EQ1 had, eventually, introduced this in the Luclin expansion. The portal would auto-teleport every 10 or 15 minutes. I think EQ2 had this as well in a few spots. Standing around waiting 15 minutes is the price you pay for the convenience factor of not having to find a class that can teleport you.
I wouldn't be against gate potions to allow non-porting classes to return to their bind point either. I see returning FROM someplace as less of an issue wtih respect to keeping travel time as an important part of the game than I do getting TO someplace.
And Luclin was the start of the downfall of EQ for many reasons...that being one of them. The bazaar was another and POK(POP) was the last straw in killing the game for a lot of people.
Luclin's portals were not hugely convenient by any stretch of the means, only taking you to some wizard spires. The North Karana portal wasn't a convenient location to...well..anything at all. Neither was the Cazic Thule wizard spire. And even after that you still had to stand there for 15 minutes.
PoP, with their instant portals to every player race city in the game is what destroyed travel provided where you wanted to go was near a racial city. It didn't do much to reduce travel for many locations in Kunark, Velious, Luclin, Omens of War, Gates of Discord.
Can't think of anywhere in particular in early EQ that one couldn't get to within 15-20 minutes from a portal location. But from the sounds of it there are a couple different conversations being bled together here, travel time and things that might hinder travel.
I don't see what is unreasonable about something like, for example:
If: 1 hour travel to cross continent X on foot.
45 minutes to do the same with movespeed buff.
30 minutes to do the same with movespeed buff + mount.
+/- 5 to 20 minutes to do the same (depending on end destination and usage of the above) utilizing teleports.
What players may or may not run into to complicate travel or be an "obstacle" has nothing to do with this. Obviously a lower level would likely take longer due to having to dodge around various areas/mobs or use a longer but safer zone to zone route.
Vandraad said:Watemper said:Vandraad said:BamBam said: I would also like an epic long quest that provide an item with heartstone tp spell, with 1 day Cooldown (a teleportation to your bound place). I would also like players to be abel to teleport if they moved to a druid ring or wizard spire. But that's just my 2 cents.EQ1 had, eventually, introduced this in the Luclin expansion. The portal would auto-teleport every 10 or 15 minutes. I think EQ2 had this as well in a few spots. Standing around waiting 15 minutes is the price you pay for the convenience factor of not having to find a class that can teleport you.
I wouldn't be against gate potions to allow non-porting classes to return to their bind point either. I see returning FROM someplace as less of an issue wtih respect to keeping travel time as an important part of the game than I do getting TO someplace.
And Luclin was the start of the downfall of EQ for many reasons...that being one of them. The bazaar was another and POK(POP) was the last straw in killing the game for a lot of people.
Luclin's portals were not hugely convenient by any stretch of the means, only taking you to some wizard spires. The North Karana portal wasn't a convenient location to...well..anything at all. Neither was the Cazic Thule wizard spire. And even after that you still had to stand there for 15 minutes.
PoP, with their instant portals to every player race city in the game is what destroyed travel provided where you wanted to go was near a racial city. It didn't do much to reduce travel for many locations in Kunark, Velious, Luclin, Omens of War, Gates of Discord.
True, but they were the initial step into invalidating the mechanics of early EQ (ie they invalidated the need for teleporting classes as it concerned that specific line of travel). This is not a surprise as this is when Sony took over and so it was the start of Smed's vision into what would become EQ mainstream. You don't promote the original design structure of the game by implementing features that invalidate existing ones. SoL did , and PoP extended it to extremes.
@DracoKalen ...Just because you don't find your job fun doesn't mean that other people think the same. For instance, as a programmer there are plenty of phases of programming I hate. Debugging is 70% of the time and I hate it, but going through all of that and figuring out how to get it to work makes that 30% very fun. If I just copied and pasted code and be done with it, it isn't fun at all. Just boring. Same concept with any type of game. Games are much different than entertainment. Games are suppose to challenge some level of skill and perserverance. If you don't have that minimum standard the game brings to the table then you won't have fun with the game period. People who do will have fun with the game because they went through the tough patches of learning the game, which is always annoying for me, and showing perserverance in times that other people would simple refuse to do.
Iksar said:Can't think of anywhere in particular in early EQ that one couldn't get to within 15-20 minutes from a portal location. But from the sounds of it there are a couple different conversations being bled together here, travel time and things that might hinder travel.
I don't see what is unreasonable about something like, for example:
If: 1 hour travel to cross continent X on foot.
45 minutes to do the same with movespeed buff.
30 minutes to do the same with movespeed buff + mount.
+/- 5 to 20 minutes to do the same (depending on end destination and usage of the above) utilizing teleports.
What players may or may not run into to complicate travel or be an "obstacle" has nothing to do with this. Obviously a lower level would likely take longer due to having to dodge around various areas/mobs or use a longer but safer zone to zone route.
Under specific circumstances, it could take little time. You take a bard, a wizard/druid and then head to somewhere and it will be fast, extremely fast due to ports, bard speed, invis, etc... That isn't the norm, requires specific spells, specific classes and circumstances. This as you pointed out is not the same with a person who has none of those travel aids. Regardless, it still took time for players to move through EQ (some more than others for various reasons).
I am not a huge fan of how EQ very quickly invalidated its travel speed as an obstacle (which is why I made arguments to attach progression to zones as well as overall development). Even still, I think that a player who has defeated content in a given area, they should not be rewarded with an easy out fast travel solution to avoid the area. In fact, this is why many zones end up becoming ghost towns as higher level players are given a free pass to speed through, or invalidate time spent in a zone the previously experienced.
I think due to Pantheons layering of content in a zone and the fact that making travel important regardless of level in any zone promotes interaction between players (would not a high level warrior seek the aid of a low level druid/bard/wizard as they were moving through that content?).
Point is, I do not want to see pantheon invalidate previous content because of linear development solutions that award the player with "you won the zone, move on" solutions. Zones regardless of level should have meaning, should be relevant and be a part of all players regardless of level. This is accomplished by layering content as well as having mechanics that do not invalidate previous content such as many travel speed increases can cause.
Watemper said:@DracoKalen ...Just because you don't find your job fun doesn't mean that other people think the same. For instance, as a programmer there are plenty of phases of programming I hate. Debugging is 70% of the time and I hate it, but going through all of that and figuring out how to get it to work makes that 30% very fun. If I just copied and pasted code and be done with it, it isn't fun at all. Just boring. Same concept with any type of game. Games are much different than entertainment. Games are suppose to challenge some level of skill and perserverance. If you don't have that minimum standard the game brings to the table then you won't have fun with the game period. People who do will have fun with the game because they went through the tough patches of learning the game, which is always annoying for me, and showing perserverance in times that other people would simple refuse to do.
Well I love games. For instance there's a game called "Istaria" came out around 2000. It's the only game I found that had dragons as player characters, you start as a hatchling and in the beginning year or so of the game you started with no armor, while the bipeds had leather/chain/plate hatchlings had the AC of a naked biped. And even with that handicap I still got out there and explored....and died. So I know hard. My masterpiece was a dragon grand hall (You can build out your own lair). The grand hall took me 40 hours a week for 6 months and 3 weeks, that's going to each tiers resource field (T1-T6) and gather stone/metal/essense/wood. Dragging it back to my processing machines, turning the raw material into bricks/ingots/sphere's. Then combining those into sub parts then dragging it all to another machine to make the parts, then to my lair. It wasn't easy or exciting but when the grandhall materialized after all that work I was excited.
I know time sinks very well and when they're warranted I can live with it, even enjoy it. But when they are just introduced with no point, no purpose...no way. Wasting anyones time is...well to put it nicely, just rude.
Tanix said:Success without failure is not achievement. Enjoyment comes from the process of failing and eventually succeeding over the obstacle, not the failing itself. If you can not fail, you achieved nothing and you have accomplished nothing more than wasting time.
Yep, this is exactly the problem with mainstream mmo's. Hence mainstream's declining subs due to more and more players seeing current mmo's as a waste of time.
Tanix said:I am not a huge fan of how EQ very quickly invalidated its travel speed as an obstacle (which is why I made arguments to attach progression to zones as well as overall development). Even still, I think that a player who has defeated content in a given area, they should not be rewarded with an easy out fast travel solution to avoid the area. In fact, this is why many zones end up becoming ghost towns as higher level players are given a free pass to speed through, or invalidate time spent in a zone the previously experienced.
I think due to Pantheons layering of content in a zone and the fact that making travel important regardless of level in any zone promotes interaction between players (would not a high level warrior seek the aid of a low level druid/bard/wizard as they were moving through that content?).
Point is, I do not want to see pantheon invalidate previous content because of linear development solutions that award the player with "you won the zone, move on" solutions. Zones regardless of level should have meaning, should be relevant and be a part of all players regardless of level. This is accomplished by layering content as well as having mechanics that do not invalidate previous content such as many travel speed increases can cause.
Seems like a separate issue entirely. If I am on my way to zone X I am not going to stop in zone Y along the way, regardless of if there is content relevent to my level or not so it wouldn't help with the zone being a ghost town or otherwise just a stepping stone for higher level players. The same way that if I was running from Freeport to LGuk in EQ I wouldn't have to stop by the spectres in Oasis or fight sand giants.
I agree that there sould be things to draw players of different level brackets to many of the same zones in the game but that is almost entirely separate from traveling through zones trying to get from zone A to zone B, C, D, etc. unless almost every zone were bottlenecked with high level dangerous mobs with no way to avoid them (which would be awful design).
Iksar said:Tanix said:I am not a huge fan of how EQ very quickly invalidated its travel speed as an obstacle (which is why I made arguments to attach progression to zones as well as overall development). Even still, I think that a player who has defeated content in a given area, they should not be rewarded with an easy out fast travel solution to avoid the area. In fact, this is why many zones end up becoming ghost towns as higher level players are given a free pass to speed through, or invalidate time spent in a zone the previously experienced.
I think due to Pantheons layering of content in a zone and the fact that making travel important regardless of level in any zone promotes interaction between players (would not a high level warrior seek the aid of a low level druid/bard/wizard as they were moving through that content?).
Point is, I do not want to see pantheon invalidate previous content because of linear development solutions that award the player with "you won the zone, move on" solutions. Zones regardless of level should have meaning, should be relevant and be a part of all players regardless of level. This is accomplished by layering content as well as having mechanics that do not invalidate previous content such as many travel speed increases can cause.
Seems like a separate issue entirely. If I am on my way to zone X I am not going to stop in zone Y along the way, regardless of if there is content relevent to my level or not so it wouldn't help with the zone being a ghost town or otherwise just a stepping stone for higher level players. The same way that if I was running from Freeport to LGuk in EQ I wouldn't have to stop by the spectres in Oasis or fight sand giants.
I agree that there sould be things to draw players of different level brackets to many of the same zones in the game but that is almost entirely separate from traveling through zones trying to get from zone A to zone B, C, D, etc. unless almost every zone were bottlenecked with high level dangerous mobs with no way to avoid them (which would be awful design).
Again, you make the argument for me. IF you have to travel through the zone, it is a part of your game play, hence it should impede you, be an obstacle in play regardless if you "won" part of it or not. Now if you were to say there is ZERO reason for a player of your level to be there and because it is "invalid" content, you should be able to bypass it because it has ZERO value to a player of your level, I might agree with you, but then if VR designs their zones that way, they have failed their design.
Point is, if you are in the zone, you should be constrained to all the obstacles you would if it were a zone of your "level". This is consistency in game play.
Okay then stop staying obstacle in place of the word "time sink" because that's all you seem to be advocating. You want players to be forced to spend extra time traveling through areas that hold little to no risk or interest on their way to some other location. Someone who outlevels the majority of a zone or at least the main routes within is not and will not be constained by any sort of "obstacles" (mobs/risk/danger), it's just a time sink on the way from point A to point B.