Inspect is good.
Unless it is a mistake, You should always ask before you inspect somebody.
It is another way to weed out rude people too.
Eveybody is not from where you are.
Sky
I think it would be good to have but as others have said, make an option for players not wanting to be. And asking first should be encouraged regardless, especially if you want to check out someone's full set of gear or something where they will be standing there for a while.
Skycaster said:Inspect is good.
Unless it is a mistake, You should always ask before you inspect somebody.
It is another way to weed out rude people too.
Eveybody is not from where you are.
Sky
Why is it or was it ever considered rude? I don't get it. If the message was never there to begin with, nobody would ever know or care.
Liav said:Skycaster said:Inspect is good.
Unless it is a mistake, You should always ask before you inspect somebody.
It is another way to weed out rude people too.
Eveybody is not from where you are.
Sky
Why is it or was it ever considered rude? I don't get it. If the message was never there to begin with, nobody would ever know or care.
It was considered Rude on the server I played on in the Original EQ game. I never felt like it was terribly rude myself but it was how it was, and i grew to like the formality and respect it afforded.
You would get a message that soandso was inspecting you.
It became etiquette to ask first; I was told so in no uncertain terms several times when I first started playing that the community expected you to ask. If a person on the Rathe server was inspecting you over and over and they were, lets say level 15 or higher, then they were being rude or just not paying attention, because it was widely known. I only say level 15 because I figure somebody would know by then.
I personally found it interesting at first but later found it to be a cool quirk of the community that I liked along with some other stuff.
Now, I realize that not everybody played or cares about what happened on EQ and that is fine. I like the tradition and customs that formed on EQ in the early days and was mirroring that experience here.
Being that everybody knew about it, it was a small hint as to what type of person was behind the toon if they spammed you with inspects.
If somebody asked first, you knew that they "got it" :)
Sky
This post was edited by Skycaster at May 1, 2016 1:25 PM PDT
I've played EQ for 17 years, it was the same on my server iirc. I just never understood it and thought it was dumb. If someone called me rude for inspecting them, I'd just tell them to go **** themselves.
I'd say it was the developer's fault for adding a message at all. Being spammed with a message by another player would be annoying, but that's a design issue, not a player issue. The act of looking at someone else's gear is basically 90% of MMOs to begin with.
Liav said:I've played EQ for 17 years, it was the same on my server iirc. I just never understood it and thought it was dumb. If someone called me rude for inspecting them, I'd just tell them to go **** themselves.
I'd say it was the developer's fault for adding a message at all. Being spammed with a message by another player would be annoying, but that's a design issue, not a player issue. The act of looking at someone else's gear is basically 90% of MMOs to begin with.
LMAO Liav, I like your Independence and go to hell attitude :)
We just disagree for different reasons. Opinions are like assholes anyways and we all have one so at least we do share one thing.
Now why would you say go **** yourself to somebody that told you that in this world (on this server) we consider it rude to do something, unless you just have to be the rebel.
In Real Life it would be rude to inspect somebody close enough to gather that type of information and as a role play game it was just assumed rude. It is a role play game so for fun we had rules to help the immersion in the game world. Hell without game rules and customs Why even bother with the graphics, the emotes, anything at all other than a game of dice to roll some numbers and say I win because the math says I do.
You need to focus son, put a little role play in your mmorpg and try to read between the lines a little at what people are really trying to say.
I can tell from many of your posts that your too damned smart not to understand what I am saying. Maybe you just like to disagree to push the envelope a bit. I like it, and have no problem with it because I am an old man and have had a lot of things smack my ass over the years, but you need to tone it down a bit if you want anybody to give a damn about what you have to say when you just want to tell somebody Go **** yourself.
Liav, this is a Role Play Game
Skycaster said:LMAO Liav, I like your Independence and go to hell attitude :)
We just disagree for different reasons. Opinions are like assholes anyways and we all have one so at least we do share one thing.
Now why would you say go **** yourself to somebody that told you that in this world (on this server) we consider it rude to do something, unless you just have to be the rebel.
I was just speaking out of character. Basically, it's a design flaw with the game (the developer's fault), and not mine. I wouldn't intentional spam someone's chat window with inspect messages, but if I want to see their gear, I'm not going to waste my time asking for their permission. IF they don't like that, they can complain to Visionary Realms to change the mechanic.
Skycaster said:In Real Life it would be rude to inspect somebody close enough to gather that type of information and as a role play game it was just assumed rude. It is a role play game so for fun we had rules to help the immersion in the game world. Hell without game rules and customs Why even bother with the graphics, the emotes, anything at all other than a game of dice to roll some numbers and say I win because the math says I do.
Yeah, but this isn't real life. It's a video game with mechanics that can be changed at will by the developers. I'm not obligated to adhere to any specific rules or customs, especially if I disagree with them on the basis of being a design flaw.
Skycaster said:You need to focus son, put a little role play in your mmorpg and try to read between the lines a little at what people are really trying to say.
I don't role play.
Skycaster said:I can tell from many of your posts that your too damned smart not to understand what I am saying. Maybe you just like to disagree to push the envelope a bit. I like it, and have no problem with it because I am an old man and have had a lot of things smack my ass over the years, but you need to tone it down a bit if you want anybody to give a damn about what you have to say when you just want to tell somebody Go **** yourself.
Liav, this is a Role Play Game
No, this is not a "role play game" if I don't want it to be. I have never "role played" in these types of games.
I didn't tell anyone to go **** themselves, I simply said that it would be my go-to response if somebody wanted to attempt to take the moral high ground with me over something as innocuous as an inspect feature.
Liav
Great answers, and now I understand a bit where you are coming from. I think you see the game from a different perspective and plan to lay waste to what ever stops you getting what you want a soon as you can. I understand that. Others want something different, everybody should have the freedom to play as they like.
However it is a Role Play Game. And You will play the role of something in the game. If you accept that you can cast a magic spell, accept a buff, kill an undead shmuck, or many other things, then you have accepted the role that you play in the game of fantasy that is Pantheon. Just accept it man, come on. say it with me Brah. Role Play :)
Now as to how deeply you wish to immerse yourself into your characters role in this game of course solely your decision.
So to answer the question of Inspecting. You could care less ,and I think it would be cool to role play a bit deeper as my choice, and think it would be nice to bring back a bit of nostalgia.
In my opinion playing along even a little bit will pay off.
I think if you find a like minded guild, you will be far along in your level and raid progress compared to the average player, so I want to be selfish and hope we can be friends because I may need you to bail my butt out of a dungeon some day. And we can do some Role Playing after that , LOL
Have a Great Day
Skycaster Crimsonhands
On an extremely superficial level, anyone who plays a fantasy MMO is roleplaying to an extent. When I say roleplaying, I'm specifically talking about the custom emotes and pretending that you literally are your character. I find it extremely cringey, personally.
That aside, I agree that some in-game rules need to be agreed upon. A code of ethics, if you will. Things like camps, training, etc. Inspecting people is just very, very far off of my radar.
I think we're on the same page, though, even if we disagree.
Liav
A code of ethics is a great idea for a new post. It is probably one of the only things the future players can have more effect over than the Devs.
Of course a search may find it already posted. It is probably a bit early, we need some beta action started probably before the players talk about it.
Cromulent said:On my EQ server it was certainly considered rude to inspect people so I still have negative feelings about it. I don't really see the requirement to inspect people. If you are playing your class well and doing your job in a group then things should be OK regardless of what gear you have on.
Yeah, I never understood the worries over inspecting. Any time I inspected someone's gear, it was because I liked some particular item they were using and wanted to see some details about it. I just really don't understand why that's considered rude.
As someone else mentioned, just remove the notification on the inspectee side, and it's a non-issue.
I loved the social dynamic of inspecting gear in EQ. I loved that the community ultimately determined it was rude to inspect with out permission, and upheld these social expectations. What I loved most was this was all organic. There was nothing in the game that told us we should be polite and ask to look at others gear -- this was an organic evolution. 100% emergent social gameplay.
Im not asking for this to be engineered into Pantheon, but rather encourage the developers to allow enough room for emergent nuances like this to develop and flourish on their own.
Dekaden said:I loved the social dynamic of inspecting gear in EQ. I loved that the community ultimately determined it was rude to inspect with out permission, and upheld these social expectations. What I loved most was this was all organic. There was nothing in the game that told us we should be polite and ask to look at others gear -- this was an organic evolution. 100% emergent social gameplay.
Im not asking for this to be engineered into Pantheon, but rather encourage the developers to allow enough room for emergent nuances like this to develop and flourish on their own.
It really wasn't that emergent. There was an annoying message you would get every time someone would inspect you, and I believe that is the source of how it became a rude practice.
I don't think programming in ways for players to annoy eachother for the purpose of causing them to avoid those things is a good idea.
Yes to inspecting, but also use to /toggleinspect off
This way if you don't wish to accidentally inspect folks you can turn that feature off.
For me it's important to be able to inspect folks because, well to be honest people are dishonest. You wouldn't believe how many times I've been in camps with folks in everquest with a known drop in that camp where someone would say I NEED THAT while they were already wearing it simply because they were greedy and wanted to sell it. There are other practical reasons as well, but this one stands out in my mind.
So yes I think inspecting is a great feature that should exist, but for the sake of the irritation of accidentally inspecting folks where it brings up that window in a combat situation /toggleinspect off|on seems like a reasonable command to exist to settle that issue.
I liked how inspect worked in Vanguard. You had to actually click the player, right click their name in the target window, and click on the inspect button. It was really hard to accidentally inspect someone that way due to the multiple-step process.
Even so, I'd like to see the LORE tag used copiously on anything that isn't crafted so we can just avoid that situation altogether. For instance, inspect only ever allowed you to see what a person had equipped. It wouldn't show that they had that item already in their bags/inventory, unless it was lore and they couldn't win it anyway.
Liav said:I liked how inspect worked in Vanguard. You had to actually click the player, right click their name in the target window, and click on the inspect button. It was really hard to accidentally inspect someone that way due to the multiple-step process.
Even so, I'd like to see the LORE tag used copiously on anything that isn't crafted so we can just avoid that situation altogether. For instance, inspect only ever allowed you to see what a person had equipped. It wouldn't show that they had that item already in their bags/inventory, unless it was lore and they couldn't win it anyway.
It was the exact same in EQ2 for inspecting. No one knew either. I know my Paladin would of been spammed with inspections if it had it due to all my particle effect gear I would put on while AFK :D
Liav said:Dekaden said:I loved the social dynamic of inspecting gear in EQ. I loved that the community ultimately determined it was rude to inspect with out permission, and upheld these social expectations. What I loved most was this was all organic. There was nothing in the game that told us we should be polite and ask to look at others gear -- this was an organic evolution. 100% emergent social gameplay.
Im not asking for this to be engineered into Pantheon, but rather encourage the developers to allow enough room for emergent nuances like this to develop and flourish on their own.
It really wasn't that emergent. There was an annoying message you would get every time someone would inspect you, and I believe that is the source of how it became a rude practice.
I don't think programming in ways for players to annoy eachother for the purpose of causing them to avoid those things is a good idea.
I think very few would agree with you that the "you are being inspected" message was truly annoying, especially giving the vast amount of other text EQ fed us. Right-click inspect by default was terrible, however.
And yes, it was emergent. We were given an informational message, nothing more. The community decided what to do with it. That's emegent. These little nuances, although small in the context of this conversation, add up to something huge when looking at the game as a whole. Without the sum of these nuances - lets just call them social sandbox elements - you end up with a sterile game.
From a simple notification message that you're being inspected spawned an entire facet of the social aspect of EQ. I'd call that nothing short of emergent.
Dekaden said:I think very few would agree with you that the "you are being inspected" message was truly annoying, especially giving the vast amount of other text EQ fed us. Right-click inspect by default was terrible, however.
And yes, it was emergent. We were given an informational message, nothing more. The community decided what to do with it. That's emegent. These little nuances, although small in the context of this conversation, add up to something huge when looking at the game as a whole. Without the sum of these nuances - lets just call them social sandbox elements - you end up with a sterile game.
From a simple notification message that you're being inspected spawned an entire facet of the social aspect of EQ. I'd call that nothing short of emergent.
I think you're severely overstating the impact that inspect had on EQ.
Vanguard also had gear inspecting, but it didn't have a message. Alas, nobody cared when someone inspected them and asked where a piece of gear came from.
It serves absolutely no functional purpose to notify someone that they're being inspected.
Liav said:Dekaden said:I think very few would agree with you that the "you are being inspected" message was truly annoying, especially giving the vast amount of other text EQ fed us. Right-click inspect by default was terrible, however.
And yes, it was emergent. We were given an informational message, nothing more. The community decided what to do with it. That's emegent. These little nuances, although small in the context of this conversation, add up to something huge when looking at the game as a whole. Without the sum of these nuances - lets just call them social sandbox elements - you end up with a sterile game.
From a simple notification message that you're being inspected spawned an entire facet of the social aspect of EQ. I'd call that nothing short of emergent.
I think you're severely overstating the impact that inspect had on EQ.
Vanguard also had gear inspecting, but it didn't have a message. Alas, nobody cared when someone inspected them and asked where a piece of gear came from.
It serves absolutely no functional purpose to notify someone that they're being inspected.
Sure it does. It tells you someone is being nosy and checking you out. It's not that different than glancing at a person from across the street and then walking up to them and almost leering at them. Some people use 1st person view a lot and when you get up that close to them it can look like you are getting up in their face.
This was also a time before gearscore. People weren't denied XP groups based on gear unless they were trying to get in raid gear group content(PoFire in PoP for example). There really wasn't a need to inspect someone save curiosity and certainly not what it devolved into around 2009. For the most part it wasn't your business what the other person was wearing.
A toggle I'd like to see is to allow someone to inspect you or not. Solve the problem real quick.
Some people used to get very upset if you inspected them in XI. I never understood it, personally. Wanna inspect me? Have at it. It never bothered me at all.
But, as it bothers some, I'd say a toggle to make your gear un-checkable, or a way to disable "you're being inspected" notifications would work fine.
FierinaFuryfist said:Sure it does. It tells you someone is being nosy and checking you out. It's not that different than glancing at a person from across the street and then walking up to them and almost leering at them. Some people use 1st person view a lot and when you get up that close to them it can look like you are getting up in their face.
This was also a time before gearscore. People weren't denied XP groups based on gear unless they were trying to get in raid gear group content(PoFire in PoP for example). There really wasn't a need to inspect someone save curiosity and certainly not what it devolved into around 2009. For the most part it wasn't your business what the other person was wearing.
A toggle I'd like to see is to allow someone to inspect you or not. Solve the problem real quick.
Saying that inspecting someone's gear is the video game equivalent of leering at someone irl, then having names above people's heads is the video game equivalent of asking every single random person that walks by you their name irl.
It's a nonsensical argument at it is hilariously unfounded. Why do you insist on comparing video game mechanics to real life when there is no reasonable correlation between the two?
I never thought being inspected was rude. If anything I think people should feel complimented that someone is taking an interest in you. I think it is a great conversation starter (where did you get that?) and I think it is a good social tool. Sometimes we can help a newer player with their gear selection - usually that is only if it is an obvious blunder. And sometimes we can throw an upgrade to them too.
Liav said:It's a nonsensical argument at it is hilariously unfounded. Why do you insist on comparing video game mechanics to real life when there is no reasonable correlation between the two?
This sentence here is why we'll generally never agree on most topics. When you want to create a virtual world, it is going to share similarities with real life - so yes, certain social dynamics will be created that will be comparable. What you are wanting to be created is a game that you log into to have fun, without the emergent behavior/social dynamics that occur in a virtual world. Neither stance is wrong, but we're wanting inherently different experiences. And those who are using real life comparisons are wanting the virtual world as well, so, while you may not see the correlation, it doesn't mean that it doesn't exist.
