My real issue with having long lower levels is that no class really has any skills early on. So it's stupidly boring spamming the same 1-2 buttons. I wouldn't mind if the first 10-15 levels took a good bit less time than the rest. Hell get to 20 quick and drop it fast. Fine by me. Long as the game itself isn't really slow paced and just sitting there auto attacking for 3 minutes to kill a mob
Enitzu said:My real issue with having long lower levels is that no class really has any skills early on. So it's stupidly boring spamming the same 1-2 buttons. I wouldn't mind if the first 10-15 levels took a good bit less time than the rest. Hell get to 20 quick and drop it fast. Fine by me. Long as the game itself isn't really slow paced and just sitting there auto attacking for 3 minutes to kill a mob
Stupidly boring in what game? EQ was absofreakinglutely amazing without all of your skills and abilities handed to you at level 1 and it gave you something to look forward to. The hybrid classes didn't get ANY spells until level 9. Guess what? That was the price they paid. Warriors, rangers, monks, rogues bards getting dual wield at different levels. If the same itself is fun, none of this stuff people are complaining about will matter. You're exploring the world, you're hunting for loot, you're learning the game, you're learning the zones, you're making friends. Who cares if you only have 2-3 attack skills for a a few days? When you DO get that one you were waiting for it will have even more meaning and value to you because you ahd to earn it.
Krixus said:Enitzu said:My real issue with having long lower levels is that no class really has any skills early on. So it's stupidly boring spamming the same 1-2 buttons. I wouldn't mind if the first 10-15 levels took a good bit less time than the rest. Hell get to 20 quick and drop it fast. Fine by me. Long as the game itself isn't really slow paced and just sitting there auto attacking for 3 minutes to kill a mob
Stupidly boring in what game? EQ was absofreakinglutely amazing without all of your skills and abilities handed to you at level 1 and it gave you something to look forward to. The hybrid classes didn't get ANY spells until level 9. Guess what? That was the price they paid. Warriors, rangers, monks, rogues bards getting dual wield at different levels. If the same itself is fun, none of this stuff people are complaining about will matter. You're exploring the world, you're hunting for loot, you're learning the game, you're learning the zones, you're making friends. Who cares if you only have 2-3 attack skills for a a few days? When you DO get that one you were waiting for it will have even more meaning and value to you because you ahd to earn it.
Early levels in EQ weren't really that slow though. I didn't mind, not having all of my abilities. It was just fast enough that I didn't mind not having much beyond auto attack, but slow that down too much and there really needs to be something to tide you over. I wouldn't consider the area just beyond the city gates much of an exploration.
Dullahan said:Krixus said:Enitzu said:My real issue with having long lower levels is that no class really has any skills early on. So it's stupidly boring spamming the same 1-2 buttons. I wouldn't mind if the first 10-15 levels took a good bit less time than the rest. Hell get to 20 quick and drop it fast. Fine by me. Long as the game itself isn't really slow paced and just sitting there auto attacking for 3 minutes to kill a mob
Stupidly boring in what game? EQ was absofreakinglutely amazing without all of your skills and abilities handed to you at level 1 and it gave you something to look forward to. The hybrid classes didn't get ANY spells until level 9. Guess what? That was the price they paid. Warriors, rangers, monks, rogues bards getting dual wield at different levels. If the same itself is fun, none of this stuff people are complaining about will matter. You're exploring the world, you're hunting for loot, you're learning the game, you're learning the zones, you're making friends. Who cares if you only have 2-3 attack skills for a a few days? When you DO get that one you were waiting for it will have even more meaning and value to you because you ahd to earn it.
Early levels in EQ weren't really that slow though. I didn't mind, not having all of my abilities. It was just fast enough that I didn't mind not having much beyond auto attack, but slow that down too much and there really needs to be something to tide you over. I wouldn't consider the area just beyond the city gates much of an exploration.
Exactly. People are saying getting to level 2 should tak 1-8 hours lol. EQ1 takes about 20 minutes to get to level 2 fighting even/white con'd mobs. You can find out for yourself on the P99 classic server. It does slow down from there, but I really don't think it should take any longer than EQ1.
xetura said:Dullahan said:Krixus said:Enitzu said:My real issue with having long lower levels is that no class really has any skills early on. So it's stupidly boring spamming the same 1-2 buttons. I wouldn't mind if the first 10-15 levels took a good bit less time than the rest. Hell get to 20 quick and drop it fast. Fine by me. Long as the game itself isn't really slow paced and just sitting there auto attacking for 3 minutes to kill a mob
Stupidly boring in what game? EQ was absofreakinglutely amazing without all of your skills and abilities handed to you at level 1 and it gave you something to look forward to. The hybrid classes didn't get ANY spells until level 9. Guess what? That was the price they paid. Warriors, rangers, monks, rogues bards getting dual wield at different levels. If the same itself is fun, none of this stuff people are complaining about will matter. You're exploring the world, you're hunting for loot, you're learning the game, you're learning the zones, you're making friends. Who cares if you only have 2-3 attack skills for a a few days? When you DO get that one you were waiting for it will have even more meaning and value to you because you ahd to earn it.
Early levels in EQ weren't really that slow though. I didn't mind, not having all of my abilities. It was just fast enough that I didn't mind not having much beyond auto attack, but slow that down too much and there really needs to be something to tide you over. I wouldn't consider the area just beyond the city gates much of an exploration.
Exactly. People are saying getting to level 2 should tak 1-8 hours lol. EQ1 takes about 20 minutes to get to level 2 fighting even/white con'd mobs. You can find out for yourself on the P99 classic server. It does slow down from there, but I really don't think it should take any longer than EQ1.
Who is saying it should take longer than vanilla EQ? People are saying they want more skills, sooner, and faster levels. Go play Diablo 3 if that's what you want. This is about a long term relationship where things take time and MATTER. No time = no matter.
Krixus said:Enitzu said:My real issue with having long lower levels is that no class really has any skills early on. So it's stupidly boring spamming the same 1-2 buttons. I wouldn't mind if the first 10-15 levels took a good bit less time than the rest. Hell get to 20 quick and drop it fast. Fine by me. Long as the game itself isn't really slow paced and just sitting there auto attacking for 3 minutes to kill a mob
Stupidly boring in what game? EQ was absofreakinglutely amazing without all of your skills and abilities handed to you at level 1 and it gave you something to look forward to. The hybrid classes didn't get ANY spells until level 9. Guess what? That was the price they paid. Warriors, rangers, monks, rogues bards getting dual wield at different levels. If the same itself is fun, none of this stuff people are complaining about will matter. You're exploring the world, you're hunting for loot, you're learning the game, you're learning the zones, you're making friends. Who cares if you only have 2-3 attack skills for a a few days? When you DO get that one you were waiting for it will have even more meaning and value to you because you ahd to earn it.
Lol so you are saying it should take literally 45 hours, based on the whole 8 hours for lvl 1 concensus going around atm, to get you lvl 9 spells then? So for literally a full work week plus some you would prefer to stand around with an auto attack running while you stare at a screen watching rats get hit for 2 damage? I mean come on dude I get that you loved EQ. I did too. But saying that stuff is what made the game is so not true. The game was great because of the community it folstered. Not because of the tediously mind numbing gameplay. Especially not the early gameplay. Later on it got pretty solid but early stuff made more people stop playing than anything. Hell I couldn't get friends to even try the game at level 1, but when I let them use my account and play around on my 65+ toons they loved it.
I see level 1 as being an advanced sort of tutorial, where the player is able to make mistakes and flounder around, practice whatit is to get exp, understand that it might be betetr if expwas gotten and run around the home city finding out everything and learning things, so I am looking from the perspective of a new player.
I can understand that a seasoned player will want to avoid allof this, but I am sort of looking forward to doing it all over again, and lasting a long time while that happens.
Prominus said:What does it matter how long it takes as long as there is content to support the time.
For multiple reasons. There won't always be content. Slowing down the paces allows you to get more out of it. And if the content is good, why in the world would you just want to race through it? Getting to level 15 in EQ took me the better part of 2 weeks playing every spare hour I could and I loved the experience. Why would I want to condense that into a couple of days? If you love the game, why in the world would you want to increase the pace of it? The content in games like GW2 is horribly shallow, so of course they want you to race through it. There's no reason to stop and smell the roses. EQ was the complete opposite.
Enitzu said:Krixus said:Enitzu said:My real issue with having long lower levels is that no class really has any skills early on. So it's stupidly boring spamming the same 1-2 buttons. I wouldn't mind if the first 10-15 levels took a good bit less time than the rest. Hell get to 20 quick and drop it fast. Fine by me. Long as the game itself isn't really slow paced and just sitting there auto attacking for 3 minutes to kill a mob
Stupidly boring in what game? EQ was absofreakinglutely amazing without all of your skills and abilities handed to you at level 1 and it gave you something to look forward to. The hybrid classes didn't get ANY spells until level 9. Guess what? That was the price they paid. Warriors, rangers, monks, rogues bards getting dual wield at different levels. If the same itself is fun, none of this stuff people are complaining about will matter. You're exploring the world, you're hunting for loot, you're learning the game, you're learning the zones, you're making friends. Who cares if you only have 2-3 attack skills for a a few days? When you DO get that one you were waiting for it will have even more meaning and value to you because you ahd to earn it.
Lol so you are saying it should take literally 45 hours, based on the whole 8 hours for lvl 1 concensus going around atm, to get you lvl 9 spells then? So for literally a full work week plus some you would prefer to stand around with an auto attack running while you stare at a screen watching rats get hit for 2 damage? I mean come on dude I get that you loved EQ. I did too. But saying that stuff is what made the game is so not true. The game was great because of the community it folstered. Not because of the tediously mind numbing gameplay. Especially not the early gameplay. Later on it got pretty solid but early stuff made more people stop playing than anything. Hell I couldn't get friends to even try the game at level 1, but when I let them use my account and play around on my 65+ toons they loved it.
You are just straight up inventing things at this point. If you love playing the game, what does it matter when you get what abilities? If I am into the systems of the world they have created, then yes, absolutely I will spend however many hours necessary watching rats get hit for 2 damage. The game can still be fun, engaging and worth spending time in without catering the game dynamics that have turned MMOs from 3D MUDs into 3D Diablo.
Within reason, the slower things are the more EVERYTHING MATTERS. When you manage to kill that Orc, you get that rush and sense of accomplishment. Speaking for myself, when you're mowing down one mob after another, each individual encounter is meaningless. It's spam, it's inflation. This game isn't going to have non stop action. This game is going to have DOWN TIME. This game is going to have slow progression, this game is going to have low stats and low damage numbers. You continue to demonstrate that you have not read up on the core tenets of this game. If you hate how EQ was, well, I already said it.
Another thing that made level 1 take a long time for me was the fact that I explored the newbie city (Halas) for me and Everfrost. If Pantheon has meaningful starting zones with inventory and resource management and downtime similar to EQ, then level 1 will take much longer than the P1999 example that's being thrown around. I know I tried to sell every item I had to make every copper. The run back and forth added quite a bit of time as well. It also made me appreciate my first backpacks.
On P1999, people know exactly where to go, what to do, and how to play EQ today as nearly all have played for years.
But, slow progression is good for two reasons. It makes the players be able to gain an appreciation for their characters, items, content, zones and form attachments to them all (similar to vivid memories of EQ zones and items that people recall and want to claim its nostalgia) and it helps developers be able to create content to outpace gamers burning through it (yes some people will still play 24/7 in Mom's basement and there's nothing that can be done about that group).
However, I would think with nearly everyone playing or trying new MMOs and burning through content and being ridiculously bored at max level, that there would be no push at all for faster leveling.
Level 1 on day 1 of EQ was tough, because there was a flood of people in newbie zones and nothing to kill. I ran quests between Surefall and Qeynos just for a tiny bit of exp. While yes, that did suck, I'm not sure I would want it any other way. When I hit level 9 on that first Pally I felt like I had earned that in an epic way. As long as there is content for all level ranges, and plenty of it, I don't mind going as slow as EQ1. I would like to see more options for lower level content, not just BlackBurrow and Crushbone as options. Befallen I never liked due to the pitfalls and corpse losses, hehe.
That being said, I do hope to see hill Giants roaming around in newbie ish zones, and other npcs like Fippy or Garrix, to give that sense of never really being safe.
Krixus said:xetura said:Dullahan said:Krixus said:Enitzu said:My real issue with having long lower levels is that no class really has any skills early on. So it's stupidly boring spamming the same 1-2 buttons. I wouldn't mind if the first 10-15 levels took a good bit less time than the rest. Hell get to 20 quick and drop it fast. Fine by me. Long as the game itself isn't really slow paced and just sitting there auto attacking for 3 minutes to kill a mob
Stupidly boring in what game? EQ was absofreakinglutely amazing without all of your skills and abilities handed to you at level 1 and it gave you something to look forward to. The hybrid classes didn't get ANY spells until level 9. Guess what? That was the price they paid. Warriors, rangers, monks, rogues bards getting dual wield at different levels. If the same itself is fun, none of this stuff people are complaining about will matter. You're exploring the world, you're hunting for loot, you're learning the game, you're learning the zones, you're making friends. Who cares if you only have 2-3 attack skills for a a few days? When you DO get that one you were waiting for it will have even more meaning and value to you because you ahd to earn it.
Early levels in EQ weren't really that slow though. I didn't mind, not having all of my abilities. It was just fast enough that I didn't mind not having much beyond auto attack, but slow that down too much and there really needs to be something to tide you over. I wouldn't consider the area just beyond the city gates much of an exploration.
Exactly. People are saying getting to level 2 should tak 1-8 hours lol. EQ1 takes about 20 minutes to get to level 2 fighting even/white con'd mobs. You can find out for yourself on the P99 classic server. It does slow down from there, but I really don't think it should take any longer than EQ1.
Who is saying it should take longer than vanilla EQ? People are saying they want more skills, sooner, and faster levels. Go play Diablo 3 if that's what you want. This is about a long term relationship where things take time and MATTER. No time = no matter.
Angrykiz said:...I would say about 8 hours of gameplay for level 1 is what I would like.
Keiiek said:
8 hours seems good
Jokkel said:
8 hours isnt a bad number figure if the hard cores really work on it and the cap is say level 50 then thats a couple of months for them and 3-6 months for most of us. A perfect number imho as it allows people to enjoy the content and at the same time gives the devs a chance to take a breathe
Aethor said:Level 2 should be reachable in a solid 4 to 6 hours of playing.
Celandor said:I'd like to see the player get their first ding in about 3 hrs of play
cram9030 said:sub 2 hours
Manouk said:I can see why 8 hours at level 1 makes sense
Heebs said:maximum of 2 hours
Haseno said:Somewhere between 5 to 8 hours.
But please, keep telling me to go play Diablo 3 because you have no reading comprehension skills.
Dullahan said:As a proponent for all things challenging (and time consuming), I can see a potential problem with making lower levels excessively long. You often have very few abilities or options which is often done to gradually introduce a player to their class. I can't say I'd be against extending the leveling process for all levels including the first, but at level 1 a character generally doesn't have all of their class defining abilities. Even in EQ you could do the first 5 levels solo in a day's time. Having people spend several days with a very limited number of spells or skills could be seen as over the top.
Now, if classes start with enough skills to play their role and move into group content out of the gate, I think most people would have no problem with lvl 1 being as slow as the rest.
Exactly. I think we all want to take our time, but we like to be challenged. We don't need 8 hours to learn how to press "Kick" between auto-attacks.
Krixus said:Who is saying it should take longer than vanilla EQ? People are saying they want more skills, sooner, and faster levels. Go play Diablo 3 if that's what you want. This is about a long term relationship where things take time and MATTER. No time = no matter.
Did you even read this thread? Most people are saying it should take longer than EQ.
I think the real question is level 3. My monk dinged level 2 back in 2002 about 30 minutes after character creation. Level 3 took about an hr or two after that. At level 1 everything is even con or higher so you get max XP per kill. At level 2 a lot of stuff turns blue so it reduces the XP per kill while adding more to the total. I'd say level 3 in 2.5-3 hrs seems about right, with level two taking 30 minutes or so. In WoW, Rift, and the like, you hit level 2 after 5-6 kills.
Ill just trust that VR will come up with a good rate of progression that keeps me in the game, keeps me wanting to come back into the game, doesn't rush me through the game, entertains me while in the game.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, If you are enjoying yourself while in the game, it shouldn't matter how fast you are progressing through it. To me it is about the journey (I know that is cliche now adays) but it is true. If the goal isn't end game, then I'm focusing on having fun what ever level I happen to be at. That is the feeling I had when I played EQ and I havent had a game since then that was the same, well, maybe VG, but none other than that. If the progression is similiar to EQ, i'd be happy with that.
The significant danger here is "keeping up with the Joneses".
I would prefer a very journey-based experience, as opposed to a finish-line-pursuit. I think the first 6 months that I played EQ I had so much fun just being there that I didn't grind XP. I want to do that again. I want to take my time and enjoy the ride. I am driven and motivated but I don't want to rush. I would rather focus my intensity on experiencing everything deeply, not quickly.
That said, the danger is that folks will race to the top and if you take too long, you get left behind and can't get groups then you get left further behind.
The only times I ever really rushed XP was to 1) be able to wear/use gear or 2) be able to go into certain zones or 3) catch up so I can get groups.
#3 worries me.
I think the original EQ pace was about right. I was a very hardcore player, playing about 20+ hours per week but I experienced everything - I did tradeskills, tons of non-xp exploring and questing, etcetera. I was able to keep up with the majority of the population for 2 years until Luclin, then I got very big into tradeskilling and bazaar-ing.
POP was a great thing becuase it was like a hell-expansion .....it caused a huge traffic jam and everyone spent so much time Time flagging that everyone caught up.
OK, that all said, I htink the first Ding should come on the first night playing - maybe 4-8 hours in.
I think, with no bumps and no expansions, for me, max level should not come for a year. I know some folks will try to max-out in 2 days and folks will want to be maxed sooner. I think if max level is paced around 6 months it will be a very bad omen for the game and indicating that the race-to-the-top is too prominent.
Raise your hand if you answered "how long should LEVEL ONE take" with your answer to "how long should ONE LEVEL take?"
I very very seriously doubt even the most hardcore of us want LEVEL ONE to take 8 hours or 2 weeks of playing most days.
Instead of asking how long level one should take, why don't we ask how long x level should take?
Well still to answer the original question
365 Days!
.....ok i am kidding, or am i ?
It should take some time but i kind of can go off into an indepth discussion here because i tend to relate everything nowadays. Because from what i can tell sofar we only touch on individual things here and there about the Game its-self. But we are in a time where everything can and should be related to one another. So leveling to spells to progression to AA to crafting to....
But for me to explain this would take alot of time and i will have to do a seperate write up (Which will take a while to have it all written down)
And i want to stay on topic so it should take its time and should get harder the higher one is.
Its also kind of hard to put it on a set time because 2 Weeks ingame for me doenst represent someone else`s time spent ingame. So it might take me 2 weeks after spending 8 hours daily but it would take someone else maybe 6 weeks because of time restraints. So its hard to relate "Time" on this matter. But yes in general it shouldn`t be easy to archive a level
My worry with leveling is that sometimes I want to spend hours, day or weeks, on and off, just exploring, maybe gather items, working on tradeskills, seling items to players. But I am seriously afraid if I do that, the entire population will race ahead and I will get left behind unable to find groups.
Of course I want to level and advance my character, but I do not want to race-to-the-top. I want to experience everthing DEEPLY in the game. For me, playing 20 hours in a week would entail some leveling, of course, hunting, grouping,, camping, grinding, but also some exploring, tradeskilling and questing.
What happened in EQ was that it started out this way, but after a while it became a power-competition race-to-max and everyone left this behind and anyone who didn't keep up got left behind, unable to get groups.
Because of human nature, this tends to always happen, inevitably, to any game. The real question is how long can you stave this off?
xetura said:Dullahan said:Krixus said:Enitzu said:My real issue with having long lower levels is that no class really has any skills early on. So it's stupidly boring spamming the same 1-2 buttons. I wouldn't mind if the first 10-15 levels took a good bit less time than the rest. Hell get to 20 quick and drop it fast. Fine by me. Long as the game itself isn't really slow paced and just sitting there auto attacking for 3 minutes to kill a mob
Stupidly boring in what game? EQ was absofreakinglutely amazing without all of your skills and abilities handed to you at level 1 and it gave you something to look forward to. The hybrid classes didn't get ANY spells until level 9. Guess what? That was the price they paid. Warriors, rangers, monks, rogues bards getting dual wield at different levels. If the same itself is fun, none of this stuff people are complaining about will matter. You're exploring the world, you're hunting for loot, you're learning the game, you're learning the zones, you're making friends. Who cares if you only have 2-3 attack skills for a a few days? When you DO get that one you were waiting for it will have even more meaning and value to you because you ahd to earn it.
Early levels in EQ weren't really that slow though. I didn't mind, not having all of my abilities. It was just fast enough that I didn't mind not having much beyond auto attack, but slow that down too much and there really needs to be something to tide you over. I wouldn't consider the area just beyond the city gates much of an exploration.
Exactly. People are saying getting to level 2 should tak 1-8 hours lol. EQ1 takes about 20 minutes to get to level 2 fighting even/white con'd mobs. You can find out for yourself on the P99 classic server. It does slow down from there, but I really don't think it should take any longer than EQ1.
Heresy!!!!
I believe that the point of lvl 1 should be to introduce the person to the most basic of basic controls. How to move your toon around, how to speak to NPC, how to use auto attack / cast your 1 nuke you already know. But once you master those types of things, you are ready for lvl 2, which should slightly build on what you have already mastered, so lets say add in another combat skill and learn where the bank is in your city. The first 10 levels are mainly a long tutorial on how to play the game. Im less concerned with how long the xp takes, thats dependant on your skill of hack and slashing mobs, and I trust the devs to not make me kill 500 NPC before I ding lvl 2.
Im with the people for longer leveling, that lvl 9 paladin guy up there said it well and I agree totally with him. No tutorial please. Dont want me hand held. Figuring it out how to play is part of the exp. I want it to feel dangerous like I could die if I didnt get a partner or group. EQ had this right also imo.