Dullahan said:
As a proponent for all things challenging (and time consuming), I can see a potential problem with making lower levels excessively long. You often have very few abilities or options which is often done to gradually introduce a player to their class. I can't say I'd be against extending the leveling process for all levels including the first, but at level 1 a character generally doesn't have all of their class defining abilities. Even in EQ you could do the first 5 levels solo in a day's time. Having people spend several days with a very limited number of spells or skills could be seen as over the top.
Now, if classes start with enough skills to play their role and move into group content out of the gate, I think most people would have no problem with lvl 1 being as slow as the rest.
I understand your perspective, but I think there's another way of looking at it. I'm a proponent of having a large pool of abilities that are each useful in different situations. In that context, the lower levels should be where you get a grasp on using some core portion of your abilities, not to mention the mechanics of the game, at a level where the penalties are not as severe. Then as you gain levels you can add in more abilities at a pace that lets you learn to master them before you get more.
I guess one of the things that rubs me the wrong way is the idea of class defining abilities. What I'd like to see is various sets of abilities you have access to that could give players a bit more latitude in terms of defining how they carry out their role, rather than have the game define them. It would reward players who learn to master all their abilities by making them useful in more situations. It wouldn't give you all your abilities until level cap, and would allow you plenty of time to learn how to really use the abilities you have before giving you more. The idea is that what defines your class evolves. Sure you may be a crowd control class, but there are a lot of ways to accomplish that: roots, stuns, mez, snare, fear, charm, pets, etc.
So how long level one takes depends on what abilities you have and how challenging it is to master using them in various situations.
Angrykiz said:
My question to you Sogotp is what if you started at level 1 with the abilities you would normally have by about level 5 and just started playing the game without the weird ding ding ding for the first hour of play ?
Thanks for reading,
Kiz~
AngryKiz, to me each skill/ability builds to the next one. For instance one must become proficient in kicking before they can do a spin kick or one must be to mezmerize before they are able to charm a mob. If I got multiple abilities at once that should be spread out over time/levels that would water down the sense of immersion I want. If I started with the level 5 abilities then I would expect to be level 5 instead of level 1. To me that ding is very satisfying to me, even now as I am playing a free MMO that this one will be based off of. Those dings let me know that I have actually acheived something and when someone else acheives a ding I want to be able to tell them I am happy for them with the standard "grats/yea/woohoo/celebrationwordofchoice" because I do not expect and easy game.
People are talking about how the time investment will be shorter for this game but we do not know that. People have to remember that there will not be any kind of databases or sources of information for quests, maps, mobs in the game when it is released to the masses. When I started EQ just before Scars of Velious players were just reaching level 50 about that time. I think the highest level toon on my server when I started was level 55 out of 60 but that was with those really difficult firery levels also. I heard that when DAoC came out that it took folks about a year to reach max level because databases and information sources has to be built.. what will make this game any different? Just because MMORPGS have been around for almost two decades does not mean that this game will be any easier than the first ones were because they could easily make the learning and retention curve so difficult.
For the first level, I'd say about 30 minutes. In general, it's a training level anyway, including what to do once you level. There's a lot you can learn during that time. Just having it pass on by like it's nothing is honestly just a waste of "levels" to implement. I'd rather have 50 meaningful levels, than 10 fast ones and 40 meaningful levels if 50 is the cap.
RpTheHotrod said:
For the first level, I'd say about 30 minutes. In general, it's a training level anyway, including what to do once you level. There's a lot you can learn during that time. Just having it pass on by like it's nothing is honestly just a waste of "levels" to implement. I'd rather have 50 meaningful levels, than 10 fast ones and 40 meaningful levels if 50 is the cap.
Let me start off by saying just quoting you because I have seen a lot of the similar "ideas" about the early levels and training, lol not singling this post out :)
The main problem I see with that line of thinking is it almost contradicts for what we seem to be asking for in the rest of the game. E.G. no quest hubs, no hand holding, where to go next etc etc. If thats indeed what we want, then why would we ask for it at level 1? And how does that really prepare you for the game you are about to delve into. Lets say levels 1-10 are quick and there are "tutorials" about where trainers are, where merchants are, etc. Well then once you hit 10 its like a cold bucket of ice water in the face, almost everything you just learned you can toss it out the window. You now have figure out where to go on your own, who gives quests, where to get abilities, etc..
I just think the game should be relatively the same from 1-50. It actually creates a "deeper bond" with your toon too right from character creation. You will actually have to spend time researching and reading up to make sure you are picking what you want. And you know what, no matter what, you will find a way to get the most out that toon because by the time you hit 20, you now have a true investment in it. To just give it up and reroll would be one of the last things on your mind.
I recall my first hour on my newbie half elf Ranger running around Surefalls, clicking on all the NPCs before I actually found this cave that omg led out to the outside world and mobs that would attack. I killed not one mob in that hour, but you know almost 16 years later I still remember it, because I had to actually figure out what was going on, on my own. I have played numerous games since then, and cant remember anything about the first hour of game play from them.
I am not sure how many still agree with me, but I hope they just plop us in the game and then its on us to figure everything else out on a nice long journey to the level cap and raiding.
Jokkel said:
RpTheHotrod said:
For the first level, I'd say about 30 minutes. In general, it's a training level anyway, including what to do once you level. There's a lot you can learn during that time. Just having it pass on by like it's nothing is honestly just a waste of "levels" to implement. I'd rather have 50 meaningful levels, than 10 fast ones and 40 meaningful levels if 50 is the cap.
Let me start off by saying just quoting you because I have seen a lot of the similar "ideas" about the early levels and training, lol not singling this post out :)
The main problem I see with that line of thinking is it almost contradicts for what we seem to be asking for in the rest of the game. E.G. no quest hubs, no hand holding, where to go next etc etc. If thats indeed what we want, then why would we ask for it at level 1? And how does that really prepare you for the game you are about to delve into. Lets say levels 1-10 are quick and there are "tutorials" about where trainers are, where merchants are, etc. Well then once you hit 10 its like a cold bucket of ice water in the face, almost everything you just learned you can toss it out the window. You now have figure out where to go on your own, who gives quests, where to get abilities, etc..
I just think the game should be relatively the same from 1-50. It actually creates a "deeper bond" with your toon too right from character creation. You will actually have to spend time researching and reading up to make sure you are picking what you want. And you know what, no matter what, you will find a way to get the most out that toon because by the time you hit 20, you now have a true investment in it. To just give it up and reroll would be one of the last things on your mind.
I recall my first hour on my newbie half elf Ranger running around Surefalls, clicking on all the NPCs before I actually found this cave that omg led out to the outside world and mobs that would attack. I killed not one mob in that hour, but you know almost 16 years later I still remember it, because I had to actually figure out what was going on, on my own. I have played numerous games since then, and cant remember anything about the first hour of game play from them.
I am not sure how many still agree with me, but I hope they just plop us in the game and then its on us to figure everything else out on a nice long journey to the level cap and raiding.
I see your point, but notice I said it's a training level. I never said a tutorial level. It's your first level. You figure out how combat works, how getting around works, and in general...just somewhat familiarizing yourself with how the world works around you. Once you've spent about half an hour or so, the game gives you a slight push (level up, maybe a new ability) and off you go. It let's you at least know what to expect when you level. Part of the training is just familiarizing yourself...and that does include knowing how to handle getting stronger. While we are mostly veterans here, we WILL want new players coming, and if it takes days before they even see what happens when you level, it's likely our game won't grow in numbers as they honestly have no idea what's going on and what to expect. You always need some sort of training level.
RpTheHotrod said:
I see your point, but notice I said it's a training level. I never said a tutorial level. It's your first level. You figure out how combat works, how getting around works, and in general...just somewhat familiarizing yourself with how the world works around you. Once you've spent about half an hour or so, the game gives you a slight push (level up, maybe a new ability) and off you go. It let's you at least know what to expect when you level. Part of the training is just familiarizing yourself...and that does include knowing how to handle getting stronger. While we are mostly veterans here, we WILL want new players coming, and if it takes days before they even see what happens when you level, it's likely our game won't grow in numbers as they honestly have no idea what's going on and what to expect. You always need some sort of training level.
IMHO the only way someone could master a new combat system and UI in 30 minutes if is they already know it (i.e. it is substantially the same as an existing game they already know). In EQ, for your first character, where you had to sell stuff, that first level would include 2-3 trips to the vendor to sell drops because you only had 8 slots until you could buy a bag or pack. You were highly likely in some classes to die your first time out, because your skills were so pitiful you couldn't hit anything so add in a death and possibly a corpse recovery. You also got a note with a quest and it could take 10 minutes of running around to just find the right NPC to hand in the note. Add another 5-10 minutes to set up the UI, map macros, etc.
IMHO, if the game is so easy you can master what your given at level one in 30 minutes then I think in some sense they have failed right out of the box.
Haseno said:
Somewhere between 5 to 8 hours. The first several hours of your gameplay is the beginning of your learning curve. The game should discourage so much focus on the experience bar and encourage more time spent learning.
8 hours before I get a new ability to play with? Then I sure hope there's more to learn in level 1 than there was in Vanguard, or players will leave the game before even reaching level 2 and that's hardly going to create a commercial success.
With only 2 or 3 abilities to master at level 1 you simply don't need 8 hours to learn them and most people will give up out of boredom. You don't need to keep a player at level 1 for 8 hours to encourage them to learn how the game works, most people need regular rewarding for continuing to play. A new ability to play with is the best bit about levelling for me. Especially early on when the feeling is "hurrah, finally I can stop mashing this one button when killing enemies, and try some different combinations to see what kills them faster". At least that's how most of the classes in Vanguard were up to about level 10 in my experience.
Additionally if level 1 takes 8 hours, how long is 2 going to take? If we estimate that each level is about 2 times longer than the previous one, that means reaching level 10 is is 8184 hours, which is 48 weeks - nearly a year? Ridiculous in anyone's book, I hope. I'm all for not reaching level cap in a week but that's crazy.
I've never played an MMO where the first level took 5-8 hours, so I couldn't speak on that in terms of how it feels. I personally don't mind if levels 1-10 are fairly quick, maybe 15-25 hours of gameplay (adventuring only). After that though, I do expect the game to slow down. I would be very interested in longer levels, but there needs to be enough.....stuff, content, things to learn, or idk w/e. I think this is where an engaging crafting system can be beneficial. I know when I created alts in VG, I did crafting/harvesting alongside my adventuring, and my levels become much longer (i wanted to keep the various spheres in the same level range). It was very rewarding though, I could use mats gained while adventuring to craft the pieces of gear I wasnt able to get from an area or even stronger than what I could get adventuring.
ANYWAY
TL:DR
I feel level 1 should be short (1-3 hours) It should only be longer than this if there is some sort of engaging experience to go with it (lore, character background, combat/crafting/faction mechanics, death penalty, or w/e)
Level 1 should take as long as it takes to master the basic controls of the game like movement, attacking, spell casting, etc. You'd have to poll newbies that have never played the game before and ask them after how many kills did things start feeling comfortable. Maybe 10 kills in the noobie yard?
I absolutely do not want Pantheon to be a game that you get multiple levels just by turning in starting quest stuff which results in being level 2 or 3 before you even start to fight in the noobie yard.
Dullahan said:
As a proponent for all things challenging (and time consuming), I can see a potential problem with making lower levels excessively long. You often have very few abilities or options which is often done to gradually introduce a player to their class. I can't say I'd be against extending the leveling process for all levels including the first, but at level 1 a character generally doesn't have all of their class defining abilities. Even in EQ you could do the first 5 levels solo in a day's time. Having people spend several days with a very limited number of spells or skills could be seen as over the top.
Now, if classes start with enough skills to play their role and move into group content out of the gate, I think most people would have no problem with lvl 1 being as slow as the rest.
Pretty much this. Level 1 could take 3 years if level 1 gameplay is interesting. If level 1 gameplay is on par with EQ where you can basically turn on auto attack or maybe cast the only spell you have because you can't afford to buy another one... Well that is just boring as hell. I can tell you 1-20ish in EQ is easily one of my least favorite times for most every class (assuming not crazy twinked and killing stuff twice your level). It's just not really fun having limited abilities and minimal interaction with the game world.
An idea I have kicked around in my head a little bit but have never really fleshed out for an MMO would be to do new characters in a more "RPG" style. Have some choices/options of where you are from, the life you've lead, age, how you discovered your power or natural sword wielding ability, etc etc. Based on that you start in a different place in life. For instance if you are a warrior and pick that you grew up in the back alleys of the poor quarter fighting every day for food to avoid starvation and eventually escaping by signing up as a guard for a merchant's caravan you would say start at level 10 with some okay gear and a few predefined traits. Or for a warrior who was born a noble and taught swordplay from the day he could walk and is now leaving the protective umbrella of his wealthy parents you could start at say level 6 but with nicer gear and different predefined traits. Or if say you wanted to go completely your own way as a warrior you could start as a farm boy who's parents were murdered by thieves that has sworn revenge you could start off level 1 with some cheap clothes and a wooden mallet. If you wanted to get crazy you could have quests that matched your past.
It always has struck me as a bit silly that in MMOs you have thousands of naked peasants just dumped off at the same spot in the world with the same rusty dagger stabbing bats to death. What the hell were they doing from then to being an adult that left them in such a state? Some games certainly do this better than others SWTOR at least sends you through a decent backstory for instance. If the first few levels weren't crazy long I think this would solve a lot of the issues newbies have in terms of boredom and overcrowding and such. *shrug*
Phantomghost said:
I would say maybe one hour of killing. At level one you are trying to figure everything out. Find where things are, learn controls, etc.
Yea probably something like this. The level itself may take much longer depending on how quickly you jump into combat. But I would guess that it will take much longer for many of us who will be more concerned with setting up their UI, finding important NPCs, taking screen shots and just generally taking in our new surroundings. To me much of level 1 will be more about getting acclimated and exploring than actually hunting.
Kayd said:
IMHO the only way someone could master a new combat system and UI in 30 minutes if is they already know it (i.e. it is substantially the same as an existing game they already know). In EQ, for your first character, where you had to sell stuff, that first level would include 2-3 trips to the vendor to sell drops because you only had 8 slots until you could buy a bag or pack. You were highly likely in some classes to die your first time out, because your skills were so pitiful you couldn't hit anything so add in a death and possibly a corpse recovery. You also got a note with a quest and it could take 10 minutes of running around to just find the right NPC to hand in the note. Add another 5-10 minutes to set up the UI, map macros, etc.
While it may be disappointing to some I highly doubt that this game will be redesigning the standard WASD movement and hotkey bar system of most MMORPGs. I also don't recall reading about any sort of complex skill system. So I am sure most veteran players of any similar game could master the quirks of this one in a handful of minutes. I do like some of what you mention with the newbie notes and whatnot. Whether they went with a more role play friendly system like I mentioned above where most people didn't start at "level 1" or a standard starting at 1 system, I think there needs to be some sort of story/lore based start.
You talk to your guild master/employer/owner(if you're a slave)/father/whatever and get some sort of direction or task or something that gives you a starting point for your journey. I don't care how long it takes to advance to whatever the next level may be, it just needs to be entertaining to get there. To me everyone just starting off naked in a field with a rusty pocket knife with no ability beyond stabbing 30lb rats, 70 lbs bats, and kicking snakes ineptly with your knife is not okay if it takes 8 hours to get beyond. That's just boring and tedious. I want to be drawn into the game world not be like "sigh... rat number 3,427... halfway to level 2".
Jason said:
I liked VG's pace of things in the good ole days before the XP potions and XP enhancing items and gear. I feel the higher you get the harder it should be to gain further levels. I wouldn't mind hell levels too though admitted I don't care a huge amount about that either way. I do want being high level to mean something though and something that's not super easy to attain. I hope that once you get higher up there the achievement system really kicks in assuming that's still going to be implemented.
The pace of leveling in Vanguard at launch was good imo. I remember getting up into my 40s and running out of quests because they hadn't put in the higher level quests yet. The grind to make it to 50 w/o the quests and just gaining exp from mobs in Vanguard was tough, but a lot of fun. It brought the community together because leveling was so slow and we struggled together. I don't even think many of the group bosses dropped loot until at least several months after launch. Leveling up in Vanguard under those conditions created some lasting memories.
However, once they added in the lvl 40 to 50 quests, it increased leveling speeds significantly, which cheapened the efforts of those who leveled early on. Obviously Vanguard is unique in that it was forced to release early, so it was inevitable that this would happen.
In Pantheon I think it should be a slow leveling pace, like Vanguard or EQ. But just as importantly, after the game is launched, I believe they should not introduce new content or make changes that make leveling easier, trivializing the hard work of the early players. Any new content added after launch should be on par with what is already in the game. Alpha/Beta is the time to make adjustments that increase the leveling speeds if needed, not when the game is live.
Several months after a max-level increase, that would be the time to increase leveling speeds if needed, so that new players can catch up, but certainly not otherwise.
Level 1 in EQ really only lasted a few minutes for experienced players. Most of the time as a level 1 newbie was spent trying to find your way around and making the same newbie mistakes everyone did. Once you got that out of your system, it was only about 10 even con mobs to level 2. Getting to level 3 was much slower because most things conned blue after that. Then levels 4 and 5 were a lot slower mostly due to a lack of even cons. Everything in the newbie area was blue and if you ventured outside it you find would lots of yellows and reds. This may not be true for every newbie area but most of them seemed to follow that formula.
I personally loved the pace of leveling in EQ. It was slow enough that you could sort of count your level as your character's age, and death still held the risk of losing a level if you weren't careful, but it wasn't so slow that if you died at a spell level or after getting double attack (for ex.) you wouldn't be able to use your new spells/skills for a few days. That's a little too harsh imo. Remember, the bottom line to any game is that it should be fun. If you level so slowly that dying means you lose more exp than you gained that day, that's not very fun. It also loses the balance between making the game hard enough that players fear death but not so harsh that they're afraid to take risks.
I think you have to consider exp loss (among other things) when deciding on a pace for exp gain. It's all a balancing act, and ultimately the result should be challenging but fun. I agree that it should take the average player about 6 months to reach max level, but that would be a lot more fun on an experience curve. That doesn't necessarily mean level 10 in an hour, but realistically it shouldn't take 2 weeks to get to 10 either imo. I'd consider that a pretty boring gaming experience unless there was so much to do in the world that it took me 2 weeks to get to 10 because I was so distracted by all the fun I was having. But I don't want to spend 2 weeks basically grinding out the first few levels. Find a good balance between pacing and sense of achievement and I'll be happy.
jezebel said:
While it may be disappointing to some I highly doubt that this game will be redesigning the standard WASD movement and hotkey bar system of most MMORPGs. I also don't recall reading about any sort of complex skill system. So I am sure most veteran players of any similar game could master the quirks of this one in a handful of minutes. I do like some of what you mention with the newbie notes and whatnot.
That's sort of the problem isn't it. Level one has to handle veteran players without them becoming bored as well as people who have never played an MMORPG without things being thrown at them so fast they never learn what they have before the difficulty ratchets up. I actually doubt a game can walk that line well. That's probably why early levels are so easy and boring in a lot of games. They would rather bore veteran players than turn off new players.
I want the majority of the development time to go into higher level content. Most players will spend far more days in game at cap than they do at level 1-10 etc. Even altoholics. So spending significant resources on content that has limited playability seems counterproductive.
Kayd said:
That's sort of the problem isn't it. Level one has to handle veteran players without them becoming bored as well as people who have never played an MMORPG without things being thrown at them so fast they never learn what they have before the difficulty ratchets up. I actually doubt a game can walk that line well. That's probably why early levels are so easy and boring in a lot of games. They would rather bore veteran players than turn off new players.
This is kinda why I suggested something more PNP RPG (which admittedly I have never once played but understand the gist of) styled. Most MMOs your character starts out essentially as a newborn baby in an adult body. This is pretty much unrealistic beyond certain lore settings where you're some sort of warrior spirit being reborn or some such nonsense. A more realistic approach would be that you are an adult and deciding on a new career path. Meaning you have a story/life behind the point at which you start the game and what you did during that time may influence the starting point of your new career in terms of ability.
Growing up on the streets and fighting every day you are probably a bit tougher than a sheltered rich boy but he may have a bit more experience with a blade. Both of you could start on a path to become a warrior and one day be equal strength but for now the street smart guy starts at level 10 while the rich kid only starts at level 7 but has much nicer equipment and the guy who was an apprentice tailor may only start at level 3 but his tailoring skill may already be halfway complete. It's pretty easy to make these sorts of character pre-histories and could make starting out a lot more enjoyable than standard. At no point in any MMO post EQ (my first) or with any subsequent characters in EQ has it ever been engaging to be level 1 with two abilities bludgeoning things to death with the glorified twig that passes as a starting weapon. If they want to improve on this it will have to be something completely different in approach like I described above, or loaded with story/lore see SWTOR. *shrug*
jezebel said:
This is kinda why I suggested something more PNP RPG (which admittedly I have never once played but understand the gist of) styled. Most MMOs your character starts out essentially as a newborn baby in an adult body. This is pretty much unrealistic beyond certain lore settings where you're some sort of warrior spirit being reborn or some such nonsense. A more realistic approach would be that you are an adult and deciding on a new career path. Meaning you have a story/life behind the point at which you start the game and what you did during that time may influence the starting point of your new career in terms of ability.
Growing up on the streets and fighting every day you are probably a bit tougher than a sheltered rich boy but he may have a bit more experience with a blade. Both of you could start on a path to become a warrior and one day be equal strength but for now the street smart guy starts at level 10 while the rich kid only starts at level 7 but has much nicer equipment and the guy who was an apprentice tailor may only start at level 3 but his tailoring skill may already be halfway complete. It's pretty easy to make these sorts of character pre-histories and could make starting out a lot more enjoyable than standard. At no point in any MMO post EQ (my first) or with any subsequent characters in EQ has it ever been engaging to be level 1 with two abilities bludgeoning things to death with the glorified twig that passes as a starting weapon. If they want to improve on this it will have to be something completely different in approach like I described above, or loaded with story/lore see SWTOR. *shrug*
I don't disagree about post EQ or second characters in EQ, not that it bothered me much.
I think it's an interesting idea, but the game has no way of knowing any given players history with MMORPGs, so it would have to leave it up to players to decide how they want to start, and knowing how people like to min/max, I suspect everyone would choose to start out as powerful as possible.
What I wouldn't mind seeing is the ability to get new abilities based on actual usage of existing abilities. Set up challenges for the player that involve an ability like keeping aggro, using stuns, healing, etc, and if you show you can use them to meet a specific challenge, it unlocks other abilities before you'd normally get them. At least at early levels. Just a crazy stupid idea :)
level 1-5/10 is the most important and critical stage of the game, this is were new players will come and if they have to spend 8+ hours with nothing but one or two skills to spam they will just leave and never come back.
Making a level long just for the sake of it doesn't add challenge or make the game hardcore it just adds boredom. I have no issue with long leveling but don't make it long just for the sake of it.
I think you should be able to reach level 5 with 4-5 hours of game play, by this stage you have a handful of skills, looked into crafting, maybe start doing some group content ( would be nice if we could start group content early on ). Once you have some skills and stuff to do, then start boring the crap out of people.
I've always felt the first 5 levels should be sort of like the training ground.
Where the "Tip" windows still pop-up to guide you through the nuances of the game (Unless you turned them off). A place for you to get acclimated to the controls, learn what happens when you level, what is expected of you level (IE: spend skill points, etc), experience the difference in the mobs you're killing and the xp they give based on your new levels, you're collection new items and a time to get comfortable with the stat systems and mechanics.
1-5 should be done, by a complete newbie in 3-4 hours, and maybe 90-120 mins for an experienced gamer. Maybe even forgo death penalty for lvl 1 & 2, then they get implemented at 3.
After that the training wheels come off, and the xp ramps up to slow down progression to a range the developers feel is appropriate.
All this gives even the newest of players a chance to get a feel for a game, and get invested in it without getting frustrated by it.
Dullahan said:
As a proponent for all things challenging (and time consuming), I can see a potential problem with making lower levels excessively long. You often have very few abilities or options which is often done to gradually introduce a player to their class. I can't say I'd be against extending the leveling process for all levels including the first, but at level 1 a character generally doesn't have all of their class defining abilities. Even in EQ you could do the first 5 levels solo in a day's time. Having people spend several days with a very limited number of spells or skills could be seen as over the top.
Now, if classes start with enough skills to play their role and move into group content out of the gate, I think most people would have no problem with lvl 1 being as slow as the rest.
^This x100. Especially the latter part. I really would love to see a system where my character gets thrown into the world with naught but an auto attack, and through a small tutorial gains abilities that are used to define his class's main role in a group. Now during that tutorial you should not level 1 single bit, rather after the tutorial is finished you should be aware of how to play your class in a group (only basic knowledge, let the players learn tactics). Then you should need to get with other level 1-X players and start.
I really hope you can't just solo your way to 5 10 20 whatever you have it, player interdependence really needs to be put into focus.
My vote is for a really long leveling curve. The game should be designed to last years and years. Everquest has stuck around for more then 15 years, but I would say has suffered, because of the constant pressure to deliver more and more content for level capped characters. All the additional expansions and level cap increases tend to do, is obsolete prior expansion achievements and replace them with gear that is copied and pasted over and scaled up to the new level cap. This kind of makes everything that came before it, pretty much pointless. I believe that when they designed Everquest, they never imagined it would be around 5 years much less 15+ years. I do not want Pantheon to make the same mistake.
I want Pantheon to be a very challenging and thus rewarding experience. If the game is complex and fun, then the leveling will just be icing on the cake, so to speak. What happens if the cap is level 50 and it takes a typical player 4 - 6 months to reach that? Then what.
I like a scaling system.
4 Hours 1-10 (1 level per 4 hour session)
8 Hours 11-20 (1 level every 2 sessions)
12 Hours 30-40 (1 level every 3 sessions)
16 Hours 40-50 (1 level every 4 sessions)
That would be about 400 hours of xp grinding, or grouping. Add to that travel times, LFG time, crafting, exploring, gear farming and any death penalties... It would take most people 6 months to a year to reach 50, depending on playtime.