Tiberius said:Since Pantheon is going to be a Group centric Social MMO What do YOU hope comes back etiquette wise with Pantheon?
I hadn't worried about this since I've been with a guild for so long, but this is a great point. When I was between guilds I got a ton of pop up windows for group invites, guild invites, and duel invites from more modern MMOs. I remember being so upset that no one had the decentcy to just send a tell to ask if I was interested in grouping or joining their guild. Just random invites and pop up boxes. Coming from EQ, these things were just standard expectations, in fact, joining a guild was a big deal with applications and such at one time. The lack of communication and not even caring who you were inviting to join your guild just baffled me. I'm hoping that part of the etiquette comes back.
Tralyan said:Liav said:Prison server for training and gameplay related harrassment though, I'm down with.
Yes! Escape From L.A. style!
That absolutely needs to be a thing. A server filled with the scummiest of the scum.
I actually really like that idea! To add further maybe your character is tatooed visbly, or maybe your character name gets a symbol indicating your crimes(also helps inform people on who they are dealing with!)
...that might make being a jerk worth it though...
Another etiquette related thing, although not really is Language. I have noticed over the last decade that the language used in general chat was gotten worse and worse, it has become more and more toxic.
The sheer amount of foul and derogatory language in general chat is rediculous, and if anyone says anything about it, they get 10 people jumping down their throat threatening them, swearing at them, calling them a care bear, telling them to F**K off if they dont like it leave or use the profanity filter..
Sure there is a filter, but in classic mmo's like Daoc, asherons call, EQ Etc you didnt Need a filter.
The total Lack of respect for their fellow gamers, and just total lack of respect in general in modern mmo's is astounding.
People wouldn't have dared to act like they do in games like Wow Etc, but there again the Gms in wow never seem to care or do ANYTHING.
In classic Pre Pop EQ guides, and sometimes Gm's curbed this behaviour in chat and the community fround upon this kind of behaviour, you just didn't See this kind of behavior. I guess this is one reason a lot of parents played Eq, because they didnt have to worry about their kid seeing toxic and inapropriate language.
I hope the comminity in Pantheon is more like that of classic EQ than of wow and the like.
You didn't need a filter in DAoC, EQ, etc. because global chat channels didn't exist.
It's a psychological thing. The larger the platform you have, the more inclined certain types of people are to express their really idiotic opinions to everyone they possibly can. WoW popularized the global chat channel.
It isn't a flaw with "modern gamers". Don't include global chat channels in Pantheon and the problem will solve itself.
Tiberius said:OneForAll said:Kalok said:One thing that I would like to see, given that boats are supposedly going to be a thing, is a sea battle. But not really a thing to expect. So let's say you're taking a boat from Location A to Location B there is x% of chance that the boat will be attacked by pirates and the random people that are just riding the boat to get someplace have to defend the boat and repel the boarders. I'm not sure how the mechanics of itwould work if there was only like 1 or 2 people on the boat. Maybe number of riders would be a part of the percentage modifier of whether or not the boat was attacked.
Persoanlly when I am taking a 10 minute boat ride, thats when i go get food, use the bathroom etc... it would drive me crazy if i had to sit there and watch my toon take the whole boat ride or else come back potentially to a dead character.My friends and I used to teach eachother Languages on boat rides lol...good times.
Me too..friend of mine taught me "Thieves Cant" a relatively hard language to get hold of, on one of our boat rides. :) Hoping along with the rest of you that we see a resurgence of "Gamer Etiquette" and perhaps we can do that by being the good example, each and every one of us. If all of us do that then new people may take on our good example as habit. :)
Cana
Liav said:You didn't need a filter in DAoC, EQ, etc. because global chat channels didn't exist.
It's a psychological thing. The larger the platform you have, the more inclined certain types of people are to express their really idiotic opinions to everyone they possibly can. WoW popularized the global chat channel.
It isn't a flaw with "modern gamers". Don't include global chat channels in Pantheon and the problem will solve itself.
Perhaps that will lessen the amount of trollishness, and rudeness we see in General chat in most games these days. If a newbie asks a question or a direction in chat, just how difficult is it, to give them the needed information, and you can both be on your merry ways, and hey, you might even make a new friend. :) So my question is: if there are no general chat channels, how does one help newcomers to the game. Saga of Ryzom had channels where helpful people hung out, specifically to help and encourage newcomers to the game. In the end, that is smart, it means those newcomers may stick around, and the game you love so much ..will too.
Cana
Hopefully the starting zones will be littered with players in such a way that help is always available. You can still have zonewide chat channels like /shout, just not global, imo. In EQ, level 50s would still hang out in places like GFay and buff new players, hand out gear, etc.
At the same time, people are a lot more self sufficient now so they demand for help will be a lot lower than old school EQ. I think we'll be just fine without global channels.
Kalok said:Liav said:Part of me hopes static camps aren't the only form of effective grouping. Even so, camp checking will definitely be a thing if there are opportunities for static group gameplay.
I wouldn't say there's any particular etiquette rule I am or am not looking forward to, but having to actually communicate with people in general will be cool.
While I agree that I am hoping that there are dynamic camps, I don't think that we will get around a certain amount of static camps, or at least some hybrid therer-of, sort of like the revamped J-Boots was sort of a static-dynamic camp.
I remember how we used to get journey man boots..BEFORE the Bootstrutter quest was implemented...I've recounted this story before, we had to endure ninja casters who bound themselves to that spot to steal the goods once the spawn was killed, but we grouped up..and each person that was next in line in the Najena camp got their boots.
Groups reformed once each person got their boots loot, and the next person was added. It was a shared, continuous camp. We got to know people in the process, made friends and tossed jokes back and forth. It took me nine days to get mine, but it is an experience I'll never forget, a good example of cooperation between community members. And the ninja looters...well they gained that rep, people remembered, and they weren't welcome in our groups. :)
Cana
Liav said:You didn't need a filter in DAoC, EQ, etc. because global chat channels didn't exist.
It's a psychological thing. The larger the platform you have, the more inclined certain types of people are to express their really idiotic opinions to everyone they possibly can. WoW popularized the global chat channel.
It isn't a flaw with "modern gamers". Don't include global chat channels in Pantheon and the problem will solve itself.
You didn't have global chat, but you did have /shout and /ooc.
Generally speaking, the community seemed more civil in those channels than they do in general chat these days - but that could be for a variety of reasons... not the least of which is:
- The community was smaller
- The player base put expectations on you and had some capacity to enforce it by shunning you in that smaller community (didn't want to make a bad name for yourself)
Community was smaller and they were also split up among the 20-30 different zones in the game. That said, interdependence did help out a lot then, but I don't think it would help quite as much now.
When people say "the community", they make it out as if an individual is dependent on the entire population of a server to progress. In reality, you only need a small number of personal connections to progress.
Liav said:Community was smaller and they were also split up among the 20-30 different zones in the game. That said, interdependence did help out a lot then, but I don't think it would help quite as much now.
When people say "the community", they make it out as if an individual is dependent on the entire population of a server to progress. In reality, you only need a small number of personal connections to progress.
No not really, Sure you could still progress, But if you wanted to get into a group for one of the Better spawn spots, especially those with named spawns, like the one in Velks Lab for the Haste gloves (silver chitin ) for example, If you had a bad reputation you would Never get a group.. the community was pretty good about policing itself in this way.
As people have said before, If we start these practices in Beta and bring them into live they might just become the norm :)
Liav said:You didn't need a filter in DAoC, EQ, etc. because global chat channels didn't exist.
It's a psychological thing. The larger the platform you have, the more inclined certain types of people are to express their really idiotic opinions to everyone they possibly can. WoW popularized the global chat channel.
It isn't a flaw with "modern gamers". Don't include global chat channels in Pantheon and the problem will solve itself.
This is actually a good point that I've, personally, never really thought of.
It's really easy to blame the players and lament the new generation - but rarely do we stop to consider that maybe people always had the capacity to be little chits, and what changed was the forum in which they populated.
Tralyan said:maybe people always had the capacity to be little chits
15 Historical Complaints About Young People Ruining Everything
Oh yeah...
On p99 we have a player who may possibly be suffering from paranoia (as in a clinical diagnosis) - he talks in /ooc constantly in East Commons where there's always a big population, and he seems to think the government's genuinely out to get him and all his inventions/computer work. If he could reach more people in a global chat channel, he probably would be in that all the time, too. If you never went to EC, you'd never know he existed. Not so with global general chat.
sorn said:15 Historical Complaints About Young People Ruining Everything
Young people have been degrading society for hundreds of years. How do we stop it? Better education? Increase the legal age of becoming an "adult"? Stricter rules/laws? This is a much more important issue that is at the root of etiquette in the community. ;)
Celandor said:I'd like to see repeat offenders moved to a PVP "prison city" realm (as in Escape From New York). One way ticket for you and all of the toons on your account. If you want to train, harass or generally be an *sshat on an ongoing basis, we have just the place for you! No CS staff, no rules, just a bunch of nasty people doing nasty things to mobs and fellow players. Some folks might even want to jump in voluntarily and see who's king of the hill.
I had an idea but this was for botters and gold farmers (thought about this years ago) take the offending character, and dole out "medieval punishment" for a day, put the person in a virtual stock with head and hands confined in a wooden yoke. Put a basket of virtual tomatoes beside said person. Anyone can come by and play target practice on the prisoner, with achievements acquired for most direct hits. :P If the prisoner doesn't want to participate ..they can log off, but their character remains in the stocks for the required...4 or 5 hours. Yes its evil but I think its appropriate for wrong doers. :)
Cana
philo said:sorn said:15 Historical Complaints About Young People Ruining Everything
Young people have been degrading society for hundreds of years. How do we stop it? Better education? Increase the legal age of becoming an "adult"? Stricter rules/laws? This is a much more important issue that is at the root of etiquette in the community. ;)
Better parenting...teach about empathy, teach them that the universe doesn't revolve around them, that other people matter too. :) Empathy is a lost skill these days.
Cana
streeg said:Tiberius said:Since Pantheon is going to be a Group centric Social MMO What do YOU hope comes back etiquette wise with Pantheon?
I hadn't worried about this since I've been with a guild for so long, but this is a great point. When I was between guilds I got a ton of pop up windows for group invites, guild invites, and duel invites from more modern MMOs. I remember being so upset that no one had the decentcy to just send a tell to ask if I was interested in grouping or joining their guild. Just random invites and pop up boxes. Coming from EQ, these things were just standard expectations, in fact, joining a guild was a big deal with applications and such at one time. The lack of communication and not even caring who you were inviting to join your guild just baffled me. I'm hoping that part of the etiquette comes back.
I never respond to driveby guild invites, or driveby group invites. My attitude is, if it takes too much energy to speak with me, then I don't want to group ..or be in your guild.
Cana
Blind guild invites are convenient - I never set my characters to automatically decline them. How else could I add the guilds that do this to my "never join" list?
Blind group invites are a different matter. If it is just someone looking up who is on-line with the level and class they need for a group but unwilling to talk to them - well that *is* the same. But if someone is near me killing the same mobs I won't insist on a conversation - sure let them hit me with an invitation it is a lot faster.
dorotea said:Blind guild invites are convenient - I never set my characters to automatically decline them. How else could I add the guilds that do this to my "never join" list?
Blind group invites are a different matter. If it is just someone looking up who is on-line with the level and class they need for a group but unwilling to talk to them - well that *is* the same. But if someone is near me killing the same mobs I won't insist on a conversation - sure let them hit me with an invitation it is a lot faster.
Mainly I prefer a few words first, I'm not psychic, and I don't know what the other person wants, as they don't know what I want. Speech is helpful. Same for the guild situation..blind invites tells me they could care less who is in their guild, and probably don't manage or lead very well either. Common goals, for guild or group...along with a little effort in the communication department, will allow me to decide if that's what I want to do. I am not a puppy on a leash, following anyone blindly because they tugged. :P
Cana
CanadinaXegony said:dorotea said:Blind guild invites are convenient - I never set my characters to automatically decline them. How else could I add the guilds that do this to my "never join" list?
Blind group invites are a different matter. If it is just someone looking up who is on-line with the level and class they need for a group but unwilling to talk to them - well that *is* the same. But if someone is near me killing the same mobs I won't insist on a conversation - sure let them hit me with an invitation it is a lot faster.
Mainly I prefer a few words first, I'm not psychic, and I don't know what the other person wants, as they don't know what I want. Speech is helpful. Same for the guild situation..blind invites tells me they could care less who is in their guild, and probably don't manage or lead very well either. Common goals, for guild or group...along with a little effort in the communication department, will allow me to decide if that's what I want to do. I am not a puppy on a leash, following anyone blindly because they tugged. :P
Cana
I Too like a few words, if the person sending the invite is too lazy to even bother to send a few words and actually TALK to me, What else cant they be bothered to do? I always refuse invites from people too lazy to /tell or /whisper me
I mostly agree that words are good but if two of us are in the middle of 8 mobs by the time the more talkative person sends the message asking if the other wants to group we may be in the middle of 2 mobs. My assumption was limited mobs, no shared credit, not very fast respawn. In other words, the person trying to form the group loses out if the other person keeps killing.
For a longer term group I agree with both Cana and Tiberius but when there is just a minute or two left before all the mobs are gone I will just invite the person next to me, and usually he or she will just invite me if willing to group. I treat the invitation as an implicit "I am next to you and we both will come out ahead if we share these mobs".
I will *not* do anything else with the person without a conversation - just finish what we were in the middle of doing. And I will always talk after the invitation is accepted even if it is just a "thanks for sharing" or "good hunting".
I always made it a point, hey, I have to leave in 30 minutes does anyone have a friend they want to replace me? If not I'll find a replacement. Lots of people did it. Of course sometimes, late at night most often, a replacement couldn't be found. But that's just how it goes. The etiquette was nice.