Personally i would like to see varied sprint speeds dependent on the mob. A grizzly bear, Wolf, Tiger should be able to sprint 2 to 3 times faster then the average character. Griffins and Giant eagles even more so. Slime monster should be very slow.
Should character sprint speeds all be the same or be based on your starting stats? while the average human sprints at 15 mph the fastest was 30mph for a short distance.
I hope sprint speed is also limited by endurance.
Will there be paced run speed for longer runs?
I would want character run/walk speeds to be the same across all races. There really is no balance issue not having that, not to mention it would just be a hindrance to the shorter races.
As for the speed of mobs, yes, it should depend upon the creature. Some should be slower than player run speeds while other should be faster. It needs to make sense though. Would a dragon really fly slower than a gnome can run? No. Same goes for a giant for that matter. What should vary is for how long can those creatures maintain that run speed. Dragons and Giants I say would not tire, able to chase a character across an entire zone. A Grizzly bear? Much faster than a player for a brief period, but will slow down eventually. Shambling undead? Same run speed but never tiring...they are mindless after all.
Make it varied and make it fit with the creature so we can learn over time what trying to run just might mean for us.
Character speeds should definitely all be normalized. It would be ridiculously imbalanced if it was any other way, especially in PvP applications.
As for NPC speeds, perfectly fine with them varying within reason. Later EQ had expansions where mobs would run so fast they would practically warp to you. I'd rather not see them run that insanely fast.
There is issue with mobs moving faster than players. While yes it makes sense in the real world it is often too punishing in a game world, especially one where death means loss of exp/anything else. If you realize you need to run from a fight that often means you just have to die. If you are trying to travel across the the world to get somewhere but have to go through a higher level area in which you get aggro (especially with your higher aggro radius), you die.
I imagine there was a reason in EQ you saw very few mobs that cast root and very few mobs that ever had SoW. Even snare was pretty rare from mobs. I'm not saying mobs shouldn't have those abilities now, but movespeed should be pretty normalized and near or equal to that of a player so that (if they are fighting something near or below their level) they at least have a chance to land a quick stun and run. The run to zone is often still dangerous as it is.
My opinion is that NPC speed boosting / speed reducing abilities should be in line with player speed boosting / speed reducing abilities. For example, if druids have something similar to Spirit of Wolf, have root spells, snare spells, etc... for PLAYERS - then NPC druids should have the same thing. If you are out hunting stuff, and you DON'T have anthing that would boost speed or counter speed reduction, you would then need to take that into consideration before attacking a mob that can (and will) do those things.
Wandidar said:My opinion is that NPC speed boosting / speed reducing abilities should be in line with player speed boosting / speed reducing abilities. For example, if druids have something similar to Spirit of Wolf, have root spells, snare spells, etc... for PLAYERS - then NPC druids should have the same thing. If you are out hunting stuff, and you DON'T have anthing that would boost speed or counter speed reduction, you would then need to take that into consideration before attacking a mob that can (and will) do those things.
As long as many classes have a variety of ways to deal with it, I don't think it'll be an issue. It'll just be a part of the pre-planning component of combat.
Root, snare, dispell, stun, etc. are all ways you can deal with mobs with speed. Make sure every class has at least one of these CC options and the problem will sort itself out. Some items that can do these things too would be beneficial.
Im torn between mobs running faster than us or not. It makes the game significantly more dangerous.. and in a game where you suffer a pretty severe death penalty, that can be a deterring factor to newer players. Its great to think that everyone who ever loved EQ is going to come back and be perfectly fine with the difficulty level, the game will need new players to REALLY excel. I dont know if punishing someone THAT hard is worth the added excitement for us veterans.
I definitely think that certain races should be faster than other races. And that certain classes should be faster than other classes. You can augment your speed via spells, buffs, equipment, etc., so the choice of a faster (or slower) race and/or class should be available also. Granted there should be offsetting disadvantages for game balancing purposes.
That being said, I think that some NPCs should be faster than some of the slower players. But maybe not as fast as the quicker players.
Choice of race should make a difference and not just a cosmetic one.
The issue is that something like run speed is not necessarily completely quantifiable in the variety of ways it can impact your gameplay. How do you quantify an inability to make a jump over a chasm that another player can not? It's an experience, or rather a situation, that transcends our ability to balance perfectly because there are likely millions of variables that it could impact across the game world itself, as well as situations you can end up in.
I agree that races should have unique flavor beyond purely cosmetic. I disagree that run speed should be one of those unique flavors. There are far simpler routes to take. In my opinion, they should be things that are far more quantifiable to ensure fairness. If I had it my way, they would also not impact combat. Things that impact combat eventually get distilled to a very precise, quantifiable outcome where the optimal choice becomes obvious, rendering options moot.
I can't really think of anything off the top of my head, though, so these restrictions do indeed pose a design challenge. Something that deals with crafting would probably be a safe choice. Anything non-combat, really.
Laeril said:I definitely think that certain races should be faster than other races. And that certain classes should be faster than other classes. You can augment your speed via spells, buffs, equipment, etc., so the choice of a faster (or slower) race and/or class should be available also. Granted there should be offsetting disadvantages for game balancing purposes.
That being said, I think that some NPCs should be faster than some of the slower players. But maybe not as fast as the quicker players.
Choice of race should make a difference and not just a cosmetic one.
+ 1
I m agree the choice will make the difference and this game will be more RPG and finally as a humain being i ll be able to use my brain again on games
note: make more life on this game please not only mobs walking around i think nowdays we have more knowledge about AI
THANKS to bring back a tru RPG
The players races should have equal run speed. NPCs should have varying speeds however (good examples above already). And they definitely should make use of root and snare spells, while at the same time using SoW on themselves (if they can).
However, the devs can definitely do away with that extremely annoying bash/stun. If you have played EQ you know what I mean: you're running from an NPC, and every few steps they use bash and stun you (or even worse, spin-stun you).
I think it would be problematic for such a group based game to give players of different races or different classes anything other than the same base run speed... for the simple reason that groups running together somewhere would always be spread out - and not together unless faster races/classes intentionally ran, stopped, ran, stopped, to keep the group together.
That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be run speed modifiers in the game... class based spells, items, etc... that can either be used in a group setting if all can be impacted, or not used if you are the one guy either falling behind or running way ahead.
Liav said:The issue is that something like run speed is not necessarily completely quantifiable in the variety of ways it can impact your gameplay. How do you quantify an inability to make a jump over a chasm that another player can not? It's an experience, or rather a situation, that transcends our ability to balance perfectly because there are likely millions of variable that it could impact across the game world itself, as well as situations you can end up in.
I agree that races should have unique flavor beyond purely cosmetic. I disagree that run speed should be one of those unique flavors. There are far simpler routes to take. In my opinion, they should be things that are far more quantifiable to ensure fairness. If I had it my way, they would also not impact combat. Things that impact combat eventually get distilled to a very precise, quantifiable outcome where the optimal choice becomes obvious, rendering options moot.
I can't really think of anything off the top of my head, though, so these restrictions do indeed pose a design challenge. Something that deals with crafting would probably be a safe choice. Anything non-combat, really.
Wow had racials that you could say affected combat, and even at high end game, still didn't make a difference. (Were talking .1% differences over long fights) players themselves paid more attention to the racials than a guild necessarily did while recruiting.
Totally agree with this. I would like to see movement rate be dependent on what type of enemy you are facing.
I would like to see mob and player speed be built in to the challenge of one mob over another. The challenges of pulling a fast mob vs a slow mob can be considerable and well as the amount of reaction time available to CC. I would even say it would be interesting to have mobs that actually warp or go invisible like ghosts between agro and first aggressive action.
As far as normalized run speed I would say that encomberance should effect run speed negatively. I also am ok with specific races being faster than others but that speed increase would not stack with buff or magic item speed increases.
Porygon said:Wow had racials that you could say affected combat, and even at high end game, still didn't make a difference. (Were talking .1% differences over long fights) players themselves paid more attention to the racials than a guild necessarily did while recruiting.
If WoW's racials were that small, they might as well have not existed at all. That's kind of my point.
Liav said:Character speeds should definitely all be normalized. It would be ridiculously imbalanced if it was any other way, especially in PvP applications.
As for NPC speeds, perfectly fine with them varying within reason. Later EQ had expansions where mobs would run so fast they would practically warp to you. I'd rather not see them run that insanely fast.
I disagree.... In early EQ, mobs could run faster than characters under the right circumstances and characters ran at different speeds. More than once I played cannon fodder so that the shorter characters had a chance at getting away. My HEF Rogue would sit there and take a beating, and usually die, so that others could live. That was part of the fun. And no, I wasn't voted to do it. I chose to do it so that they could get away.
Interesting. I don't think I ever considered this something that required change from how EQ did it. Some MMO's, especially newer ones, it was ridiculously easy to outrun mobs. That's a shame, and I'm hoping they follow the EQ model here.
Griffins, wolves, lions (oh my) could keep pace with you easily and whack you in the back as you fled. That is as it should be.
(side note: ya'll remember the "strafe run" in EQ, right? Holding control and right/left key while running to outdistance regular mobs?)
While I would be against different races/classes having different run speeds, I would NOT be against certain classes or races having specialty skills that would help with fleeing. Skills with long cooldowns and short effects so as not to be abused and used too often. Flash powder for rogues to get a headstart, very small teleportations for casters, traps for rangers, etc, etc.
That would keep things within lore and add a certain panache without arbitrarily increasing run speeds and having to twist the reasoning to fit those changes.
Kalok said:I disagree.... In early EQ, mobs could run faster than characters under the right circumstances and characters ran at different speeds. More than once I played cannon fodder so that the shorter characters had a chance at getting away. My HEF Rogue would sit there and take a beating, and usually die, so that others could live. That was part of the fun. And no, I wasn't voted to do it. I chose to do it so that they could get away.
This is misinformation. All players in EQ have the same base run speed, and they always have.
I am enjoying this thread. I think some animals should be slightly faster than humanoids. I also like din EQ if the monster was too low on health it would turn and try to ruin away, but would be going slower. Snakes could sprint (after you, or away form you) for a little bit before needing to stop in the sun to let their blood heat up again so they could move again.
Flash thought: except snakes in Lava areas where they are always fast!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ULA-WcRLbE
Getting to your group in a dungeon
Liav said:Kalok said:I disagree.... In early EQ, mobs could run faster than characters under the right circumstances and characters ran at different speeds. More than once I played cannon fodder so that the shorter characters had a chance at getting away. My HEF Rogue would sit there and take a beating, and usually die, so that others could live. That was part of the fun. And no, I wasn't voted to do it. I chose to do it so that they could get away.
This is misinformation. All players in EQ have the same base run speed, and they always have.
Interesting.... I distinctly recall having to stop and wait for Gnomes, Haflings, and Dwarves to catch up frequently.