Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

How do you handle griefing in PvE?

    • Moderator
    • 7418 posts
    July 13, 2017 5:42 PM PDT

    Aena said:

    Hack the company that allowed it to happen. Install ransomware on all of their computers until they agree to institute the proper level of GM coverage and ensure policy adherence.

    I think you missed a key part of the question "without breaking the rules yourself?" ;)

    • 125 posts
    July 13, 2017 8:41 PM PDT

    lutorin said:

    If it is an individual it is never a big problem . Ignore is what works best . An individual can't KS a group, the worst he can do is to train . If he does it despite having been talked to, I find a way to get him killed and make sure his reputation becomes abysally bad .

     

    The only big problem are Guilds where the worst scum generally gathers . These people don't care for reputation because they can always play with like minded individuals so that they can disrupt groups, train, KS and monopolize content as they want . It is rare (inexistent ?) that whole Guilds get banned so that they have a sentiment of impunity regardless of what they do and how much they break rules and play nice policies . I first report to a GM (if any GM exist) and if nothing happens, only 2 attitudes are possible :

    1) Submit, shut up and go out of their way whenever and wherever they appear .

    2) Disrupt their raids . Kill as many as possible of them by training . It won't make them change but will give you a small satisfaction of having repaid them in kind .

    I tend to choose 2) .

     

    I have been griefed by individuals and usually just /ignore them and that usually works for me.  I also find what is more difficult is the guild filled with griefers, which I find more common.  Like finds like.  They almost always claim to be role playing evil guys and get away with it.  A guild that will move in on another groups area is far to common, take over an area until the original group leaves in frustration.  I have done as number 2 above, but I hate to sink to that level. If you have a guild that blocks content just so other guilds can not rival them.  That to me is griefing.  It will be interesting to see how VR deals with griefing guilds.  


    This post was edited by Questaar at July 13, 2017 8:49 PM PDT
    • 262 posts
    July 14, 2017 12:51 PM PDT

    This is a really hard subject.  The bottomline is that no matter what mechanics are put in place, it is very hard to prove after the fact and therefore, very hard to enforce.  Self-policing is important.  But "the rules" often prevent self-policing (the most effective way to prevent an individual, group or guild from griefing, taking over an area or camp, etc., etc. is to be better at training them than they are of training you.

    Otherwise, it is report to  GM who, early on might put in the effort to invisibly what them and implement some sort of justice action once caught.  Apathy normally sets in since griefer tend to be become "good boys" after successfully griefing for a significant amount of time making it hard for even dedicated GMs to enforce rules.

    I suggest giving the players as many tools as possible for reporting (significant logs, video and screen capture, etc.).  Setting up a reputation system will just be abused.  I don't like Joe, so Joe just "trained" me and trained me yesterday too and I give him -30,000 stars.  But you should keep records of reports made.  The get validated by GMs with a scaled rating of from "Sound like just a butt hurt player reporting someone to feel less butt hurt" to "Yeah, I saw him do five times with my own eyes" with "I can't prove it but it seems very likely this report is true" in there somewhere.  After 5 reports with a 6 months period with ratings higher than "I can't prove it but it is likely..." the player goes on a "we record everything you do when in game" list or some other method of close examination and justice is given based on the findings.

    • 25 posts
    July 15, 2017 2:26 PM PDT

    Report and wait if the game has a solution for it quickly, if not then report and move on - if reporting seems broken then start fighting fire with fire because by that time frustration levels are out of the roof.

    • 149 posts
    July 16, 2017 2:48 AM PDT

    This entire thread is why encounter locks are needed. Why , even allow training and kill stealing. There litterly the worst mechanics in old school mmos and bring nothing positive to the game.

    • 2549 posts
    July 16, 2017 9:40 AM PDT

    Xxar said:

    This entire thread is why encounter locks are needed. Why , even allow training and kill stealing. There litterly the worst mechanics in old school mmos and bring nothing positive to the game.

    Check out this statement from VR's Roenick about this: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/3129/why-training-and-other-quot-bad-things-quot-are-good-for-the-g

    • 2010 posts
    July 16, 2017 10:35 AM PDT

    I had a good time training people. That doesn't mean I should be able to. I had a good time kill stealing. That doesn't mean I should be able to.

    I had a good time doing a lot of pretty bad things in many games. That doesn't mean I should have had the ability to do so.

    Edit: Rephrasing for accuracy.

    Additionally, if "villainy" is punishable under the EULA (as in account bannings), then supporting player "villainy" is self defeating in the first place because you'll simply catch a ban. The way that dev post reads is almost as if training, kill stealing, etc. will be supported on the ambiguous grounds of making MMOs no longer "sterile", in which case we're gonna have a bad time.


    This post was edited by Liav at July 16, 2017 11:01 AM PDT
    • 345 posts
    July 16, 2017 10:49 AM PDT

    It would be rare for me to report somebody. I see it more as a part of a game; if it was obvious that somebody was griefing me more than once or twice, it would be part of the game for me to plan a special revenge for them.

    If it was just a complete A-Hole that was being particularly bad about griefing I would report it.

    Getting trained at the zone line usually means your sitting at the zone line not paying attention and that would not even be counted. 

    • 783 posts
    July 16, 2017 2:35 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    How do you handle griefing players in PvE MMORPGs without breaking the rules yourself? #PRF #Communitymatters

    Well the simple answer for me is I don't put myself into positions to be griefed because:

    • Pay attention to my surroundings at all times because griefing happens most when people aren't watching. 
    • Assume that everyone is out to grief.  That guy who runs past your group?  Assume he either has a train behind him or he's going to try pulling through your group.  Be repared.
    • Always know where the common camps are located so when you have to run you can avoid them.
    • Finally, look on a train not as a grief, but as extra XP.
    • If you're afraid of someone stealing your kills, be sure to tag it first and do more DPS then them.
    • Lastly, don't react to griefers because what they want more than anything is to see you get mad, yell, all the while you aren't gaining XP. 
    • 596 posts
    July 16, 2017 7:54 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    How do you handle griefing players in PvE MMORPGs without breaking the rules yourself? #PRF #Communitymatters

    Best way to really handle grieving from other players is to beat them at their own game, and if you cant bring more friends they they did to make sure they leave, and also let the community know that they are doing it if anything, plus if they are cuasing too much of a problem just report them and see what happens.  Grieving is going to be impossible to stop completely in an open world game, its one of the drawbacks in this kind of game, but at the same time it has a ton of pros as well, which is way it attracts a lot of attention from us.  But, if we can find a way to basically try to not steal camps, spout out insults to each other, and all that kind of nasty things, than we can have a pretty mature, respectful game with a good atmosphere.  Sad thing is this is much harder to do than to say, plus once it starts happening to good people, they start doing it becuase it happens to them, it becomes a pretty vicious cycle if it isnt controlled through the GM's, becuase if their isn't any punishment to stop them than they won't stop, becuase just like everyone, they can simply just ignore them and continue to grieve them like they were before.  But this is true for all MMO's so hopefully there are some semi harsh punishment for grieving so it make the players think twice before doing it.

    • 8 posts
    July 16, 2017 11:31 PM PDT

    Tell them to stop. If they don't, then black list them and talk to their guild (if they have one). Eventually, the person's reputation will become irrevocably damaged (along with their guild's) and nobody will want to group with that person anymore, causing their progression to suffer. If they want their reputation restored then they'll have to pay for a name change or change their ways and hope the community is forgiving. The end. The only time I think GM intervention is required is if it is something that is frequent.

    But to be honest in addition to the above I KS, train, and steal the camp back.


    This post was edited by manofyesterday at July 16, 2017 11:56 PM PDT
    • 149 posts
    July 17, 2017 3:35 AM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    Xxar said:

    This entire thread is why encounter locks are needed. Why , even allow training and kill stealing. There litterly the worst mechanics in old school mmos and bring nothing positive to the game.

    Check out this statement from VR's Roenick about this: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/3129/why-training-and-other-quot-bad-things-quot-are-good-for-the-g

     

    This was also entirely wrote from a players point of view in fact in some circles it might be considered counter productive from a dev's perspective to view things in that light , that does little to change the argument. I in fact disagree with almost all his statements . The ability to ks did not foster the community , in  fact it was one of the reasons most bailed on eq1 , it did not spark compition between guilds ... racing did. I can keep debating back and forth but until we are allowed to test mechanics , its a waste of time.

    • 149 posts
    July 17, 2017 3:42 AM PDT

    I want to know what Pantheons intentions or how there going to handle these issues.

    What recourse will the player base have to a person that does such acts , without breaking the rules. 

    • Moderator
    • 7418 posts
    July 17, 2017 4:36 AM PDT

    Xxar said:

    I want to know what Pantheons intentions or how there going to handle these issues.

    What recourse will the player base have to a person that does such acts , without breaking the rules. 

    This is a CM question, any EULA, ToS or guidelines/rules for handling CS related issues will be internal and follow our disciplinary protocol, when the game launches, we will make public the usual ruleset for game behaviour and expect everyone to follow it.

    • 176 posts
    July 17, 2017 5:18 AM PDT

    In this day and age, we know griefing is common place and there is only so much that gamers can do without ending up griefing the griefer, which is against the intention to produce a social gaming experience that harps back to the early days. There has to be a point where VR say enough is enough to repeat offenders. If someone continues to be a pain in the butt to everyone they want out of the way, then, as with any kind of cheating (which this is, if you ask me) then they should be warned, then their main char locked and eventually kicked from the game. In a game that is made for social and co-operative play, then anyone forcing game play away from this premise doesn’t deserve to be in the game.

    I want to experience those early community driven EQ days that were a pleasure. Yes, there were trains, but that was part of the fun and it was seldom intended. There is a point though, when people's gameplay becomes selfish and detrimental to others over an extended period, that is where the line should be drawn for a social game. Yes, self-policing ("/ignore", not grouping with, not allowing into a guild, etc) will help in most cases, but there are people who don’t give a fig about anyone else and take pleasure in disrupting others in inventive ways. For those people who cannot be self-policed, I would expect VR to intervene and keep the game play true to its roots. I am not calling for bans to the odd train or disagreement, I am calling for action against continual abusive and/or anti-social activities over a period where warnings have been issued. If those people cannot restrain themselves, then I dont believe they deserve to be part of the VR vision.

    One question on kill-stealing; if this is a social game, then why can't anyone involved in a kill have a chance at the mobs rewards? Maybe those rewards would be less than kills to grouped player (so incentivising group play), but it would promote helping others on the off chance and kill stealing wouldn't be much of an issue?

     

    • 596 posts
    July 17, 2017 5:56 AM PDT

    manofyesterday said:

    Tell them to stop. If they don't, then black list them and talk to their guild (if they have one). Eventually, the person's reputation will become irrevocably damaged (along with their guild's) and nobody will want to group with that person anymore, causing their progression to suffer. If they want their reputation restored then they'll have to pay for a name change or change their ways and hope the community is forgiving. The end. The only time I think GM intervention is required is if it is something that is frequent.

    But to be honest in addition to the above I KS, train, and steal the camp back.

    If you ae one of te people who KS, train, and steal camp checks, than im sorry but i believe you should be suspended to make you think twice, it shouldnt be required to be a fequent thing, becuase whats there definition of freq, 2, 5, 15? we wouldnt be able to know, make it if yu cause grieving, you have a chance to get suspended period, and im not talking about the accidental training, like you ran through and a npc popped in front of you and it caused a domino effect either and got you and someone else killed, im talking about intentional training, or intentional grieving, the best way to stop anything is to be quick, and swift with your punishments, none of this oh well hes only done it 3 times so maybe you just caught him on a bad day or some crap, nah man do something, anything whether it be a day, 2, a week i dont care but something, make them understand you want it to be a mature, respectful game and we the community and gms arent going to put up with shady **** and have people trying to ruin other peoples day, by them Ksing, by them stealing camps, having them cuss us up and down for a certain period of time, if we the people and the gm's are to relaxed on this it can get ugly quick, I'm going to mention a moment in EQ that happened to me I was playing my human monk in freeport and when i walked outside of East Freeport what did i see a ton of DE's just picking off all the nooby humans who havent even started playing probably before today well maybe some of them anyway, i myself was probably like a 5 months in, but i got tired of them killing everyone, so what did i do? i range attacked the guatd and ran right into their faces wasnt thinking of what i was doing was wrong but was defending my fellow brother humans and was seizing victory, later that day a gm contacted me and talked to me and said did to train someone with a freeport guard. and i said yes i did, becuase they were killing all of us and we couldnt get any exp, the end of the day the DE's who were causing the humans got a huge warning i heard and i got suspended for 1 day, becuase i intention made them lose exp, or something to this effect.

    • 11 posts
    July 17, 2017 9:41 AM PDT

    Well,

    I accept there is no such thing. Players all pay the same fees to enjoy the game within the rules that the programers designed. I am owed nothing more then any other player. I go on my merry way and will take a shot later. If someone is abusing something I will report them...if there is no way for me to get my stuff done I will talk to the other party; if they never respond then I will move on.

    • 209 posts
    July 17, 2017 10:22 AM PDT

    I love how Kilsin asks how we handle Griefing without breaking the rules ourselves and the top answer is essentially "report it but if rules aren't being enforced then I break the rules myself" =P

    Don't get me wrong I get the sentiment but Lol we just go from 0 to 11 don't we?

    Honestly I tend to ignore them myself until they get bored and go bother someone else.. its really the only effective way to deal with them since as other people said these "Trolls" tend to gather in their own guilds/groups so when they grief, attempting to execute public shaming doesn't really work since they literally already have all the friends they likely need. Personally thats one of the reasons I was hoping for a more robust player run economy w/ equipment decay so that there is more interdependency needed and their habbits carried real repurcussions for them. 

    That said, I'm sure there are other ways to inflict punishment on them without directly having the devs reach for the ban option. Like maybe give them a 30 day debuff that decreases their damage and heals by 5%, and allow those debuffs to stack for multiple offenders.. Alternatively a 5% snare or 10% vender price increase. The ultimate solution (IMO) would be banishment to a Griefers server and lockout of the other live servers. Then let them grief each other to their hearts content. The only real problem with the banishment server is getting its population to be stable or sufficient that its not just a drain on resources... but then again that is part of the charm.. them knowing they are locked away on another desolate server away from anyone they could prey on... The ultimate grief of a griefer. 

    • 262 posts
    July 17, 2017 12:44 PM PDT

    Keldaria said:

    I love how Kilsin asks how we handle Griefing without breaking the rules ourselves and the top answer is essentially "report it but if rules aren't being enforced then I break the rules myself" =P

    Don't get me wrong I get the sentiment but Lol we just go from 0 to 11 don't we?



    The issue has been, and likely always will be, that companies (like police) cannot be in all places at once and having to depend on them to keep one's camp or continue consuming content that a griefer has used force to take take or keep others, out, etc., is an exercise in futility.  It is not unlike arguments over the 2nd amendment.  It is all good to preach peace and love and that no one needs guns until you have to depend on the police during a home invasion.  I'm not trying to say that a griefer taking a camp is as bad as a home invasion (before someone make that claim).  I am saying that expecting some one to handle griefing with love and /ignore and still being able to play, nevermind enjoy the game, is rather naive.

    There IS a difference between someone that can go years without ever training someone and getting along wonderfully with the vast majority of players in a community, that one day finds himself in a training war with a guild that decided to take over a zone and that guild doing the same thing to his group and all other groups in the zone.  One of those differences is that, because that guild planned it all along, they had video capture turned on duing the retrobution and the victim gets suspended while the griefers go can go scotfree because no one was planning to get trained that day.

    I'm more for let the community police itself, because there is no programming that can stop it without sterilizing the game and there policing it tends to only harm the victims.


    This post was edited by DragonFist at July 17, 2017 12:51 PM PDT
    • 209 posts
    July 17, 2017 1:23 PM PDT

    DragonFist said:

    Keldaria said:

    I love how Kilsin asks how we handle Griefing without breaking the rules ourselves and the top answer is essentially "report it but if rules aren't being enforced then I break the rules myself" =P

    Don't get me wrong I get the sentiment but Lol we just go from 0 to 11 don't we?



    The issue has been, and likely always will be, that companies (like police) cannot be in all places at once and having to depend on them to keep one's camp or continue consuming content that a griefer has used force to take take or keep others, out, etc., is an exercise in futility.  It is not unlike arguments over the 2nd amendment.  It is all good to preach peace and love and that no one needs guns until you have to depend on the police during a home invasion.  I'm not trying to say that a griefer taking a camp is as bad as a home invasion (before someone make that claim).  I am saying that expecting some one to handle griefing with love and /ignore and still being able to play, nevermind enjoy the game, is rather naive.

    There IS a difference between someone that can go years without ever training someone and getting along wonderfully with the vast majority of players in a community, that one day finds himself in a training war with a guild that decided to take over a zone and that guild doing the same thing to his group and all other groups in the zone.  One of those differences is that, because that guild planned it all along, they had video capture turned on duing the retrobution and the victim gets suspended while the griefers go can go scotfree because no one was planning to get trained that day.

    I'm more for let the community police itself, because there is no programming that can stop it without sterilizing the game and there policing it tends to only harm the victims.

    I get it, I never said I didn't understand why people did it. My point and the world in which I live is that if you subscribe to a world without police and let the world police itself, then you always tend to find it reduced to the lowest common denominator. It becomes a world of just shutting down zones with spite trains to the point where nobody can do anything. It becomes a giant negative feedback loop where every action sends the next person in the cycle back to the begining to start the cycle again. In PVP oriented games like Eve, this works great as it helps make the community band together into factions and build defenses and protect each other by means of force but in a PVE game its not the same. The same dynamic that works in the PVP world just doesn't translate well into the PVE world. 

    I guess what I'm saying is I'd rather have a system of rules in place and subscribe to working within them. In your example its sad that the person who didn't start the griefing got banned but none the less he took actions into his own hand. In an event like that it would have been equally as easy to set right back up and hit record and let the camera catch them.

    Ultimately, some players are just that way. Engaging with them only makes them double down and get even more enjoyment out of the event. Yes I get it, it takes a lot to swollow your pride and move to another location or ignore them and push on as best as you can. Ultimately you feel helpless because lacking a PVP option and breaking the rules yourself you seem to lack the ability to even the playing field or stand your ground. That sucks and is one of the reasons instancing has been so popular because it removes that experience but that obviously has its drawbacks which is why we're all here. Aspiring to dive to their depths isn't the answer and isn't how healthy communities are generated. Send them a tell and check to make sure it wasn't just a mistake/accident, and then assuming they are just griefing, put them on ignore, report them and push on if you can or move to another location. The less you let them see you've been effected by their effort the better. 

    Also for the record, Yes I have been griefed many times in many different ways. Early on i found it hard to not react or move on, but in time I've found it easier and easier. There is always plenty of things to do/work on, and I always manage to get my trinket or whatever I'm camping to drop eventually. Patience is a virtue, and something that really annoys people who grief. Furthermore I often find that the time you mess around attempting to catch them or grief them back is often wasted time that you could've setup at a new camp and been killing/farming exp/drops. The more you waste time with these individuals the more game time you actually loose.


    This post was edited by Keldaria at July 17, 2017 1:27 PM PDT
    • 262 posts
    July 17, 2017 2:08 PM PDT

    Keldaria said:

    DragonFist said:

    Keldaria said:

    I love how Kilsin asks how we handle Griefing without breaking the rules ourselves and the top answer is essentially "report it but if rules aren't being enforced then I break the rules myself" =P

    Don't get me wrong I get the sentiment but Lol we just go from 0 to 11 don't we?



    The issue has been, and likely always will be, that companies (like police) cannot be in all places at once and having to depend on them to keep one's camp or continue consuming content that a griefer has used force to take take or keep others, out, etc., is an exercise in futility.  It is not unlike arguments over the 2nd amendment.  It is all good to preach peace and love and that no one needs guns until you have to depend on the police during a home invasion.  I'm not trying to say that a griefer taking a camp is as bad as a home invasion (before someone make that claim).  I am saying that expecting some one to handle griefing with love and /ignore and still being able to play, nevermind enjoy the game, is rather naive.

    There IS a difference between someone that can go years without ever training someone and getting along wonderfully with the vast majority of players in a community, that one day finds himself in a training war with a guild that decided to take over a zone and that guild doing the same thing to his group and all other groups in the zone.  One of those differences is that, because that guild planned it all along, they had video capture turned on duing the retrobution and the victim gets suspended while the griefers go can go scotfree because no one was planning to get trained that day.

    I'm more for let the community police itself, because there is no programming that can stop it without sterilizing the game and there policing it tends to only harm the victims.

    I get it, I never said I didn't understand why people did it. My point and the world in which I live is that if you subscribe to a world without police and let the world police itself, then you always tend to find it reduced to the lowest common denominator. It becomes a world of just shutting down zones with spite trains to the point where nobody can do anything. It becomes a giant negative feedback loop where every action sends the next person in the cycle back to the begining to start the cycle again. In PVP oriented games like Eve, this works great as it helps make the community band together into factions and build defenses and protect each other by means of force but in a PVE game its not the same. The same dynamic that works in the PVP world just doesn't translate well into the PVE world. 

    I guess what I'm saying is I'd rather have a system of rules in place and subscribe to working within them. In your example its sad that the person who didn't start the griefing got banned but none the less he took actions into his own hand. In an event like that it would have been equally as easy to set right back up and hit record and let the camera catch them.

    Ultimately, some players are just that way. Engaging with them only makes them double down and get even more enjoyment out of the event. Yes I get it, it takes a lot to swollow your pride and move to another location or ignore them and push on as best as you can. Ultimately you feel helpless because lacking a PVP option and breaking the rules yourself you seem to lack the ability to even the playing field or stand your ground. That sucks and is one of the reasons instancing has been so popular because it removes that experience but that obviously has its drawbacks which is why we're all here. Aspiring to dive to their depths isn't the answer and isn't how healthy communities are generated. Send them a tell and check to make sure it wasn't just a mistake/accident, and then assuming they are just griefing, put them on ignore, report them and push on if you can or move to another location. The less you let them see you've been effected by their effort the better. 

    Also for the record, Yes I have been griefed many times in many different ways. Early on i found it hard to not react or move on, but in time I've found it easier and easier. There is always plenty of things to do/work on, and I always manage to get my trinket or whatever I'm camping to drop eventually. Patience is a virtue, and something that really annoys people who grief. Furthermore I often find that the time you mess around attempting to catch them or grief them back is often wasted time that you could've setup at a new camp and been killing/farming exp/drops. The more you waste time with these individuals the more game time you actually loose.



    That is simply not my experience.  My experience in actually playing through situations like this, is that if one makes taking over or stealing content not worth the effort, the griefers give up and usually relatively fast.  I have experienced where it took a while to create that effect (hours) but I can also tell you that one specific guild that used to engage in this behavior on my server in EQ eventually came to just enter a zone and if I or member of my guild were in that zone, they just moved on to easier prey.

    That, for me, is a much more enjoyable game than one in which I have to leave because a griefer guild shows up in my zone.

    Look, I'm not saying that general training and other activities that clearly can ruin the game for others should be condoned.  But I am saying that a "self-defense plea" is and should be a valid thing.

    I also think that records should be kept of those that have such situations come up regularly so that GMs can start investigating both people that are regularly reported on for griefing and those claiming "self-defense" a whole lot.  Those that are problematic will likely have higher number of incidents and mechanics that allow GMs to keep track of those things and be given a list of the biggest red-flags would go a long way to handling things because you could narrow things down to the few major offenders.


    This post was edited by DragonFist at July 17, 2017 2:15 PM PDT
    • 33 posts
    July 17, 2017 2:10 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    How do you handle griefing players in PvE MMORPGs without breaking the rules yourself? #PRF #Communitymatters

     

    You let the player society handle it. 

     

    I would say enable a mechanism, even on the PvE servers to handle it socially/by force. Require a /pvp command that can be targetted at the greifer. Require ten persons worth of /PvP flags. Allow one /PvP flag per minute, as to limit exploitation. 

     

    So griefer enters zone and starts griefing. Once per minute, one of ten people /pvp's the griefer. A message appears that tells the griefing player the count of /pvp flags against them. They essentially have ten minutes to depart the area or will be forced to fight ten other players. Once activated, the /pvp flag lasts one hour (but only in the zone the griefing was initiated). The flag also lasts through death, allowing the griefers corpse to be camped up to that one hour. 

     

    To further prevent exploitation/crying wolf, each character is required to pay a small fee commensurate with their level for a bountry contract. 

     

    This will force the griefer to either fight or flight. 

     

    The same system could work on the PvP server if it has (teams), or people outside the PvP servers attack level restriction (if there is one). 


    This post was edited by Zybane at July 17, 2017 2:27 PM PDT
    • 2010 posts
    July 17, 2017 3:03 PM PDT

    Can't wait to be a member of a guild where we can PvP flag a group's healer and take over their camp.

    You can't trust players with things like that.

    • 33 posts
    July 17, 2017 3:53 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    How do you handle griefing players in PvE MMORPGs without breaking the rules yourself? #PRF #Communitymatters

    Since you've implied in your question that griefing is against the rules, I would report the player.  

    I tend not to negotiate with terrorists.

    • 33 posts
    July 17, 2017 4:04 PM PDT

    Liav said:

    Can't wait to be a member of a guild where we can PvP flag a group's healer and take over their camp.

    You can't trust players with things like that.

     

    Uh, sure you can. I only play on PvP servers, which naturally resolves itself anyway. 

     

    A: The healer getting flagged would have ten minutes of warning and for other solutions to be thought about/compromised.

    B: You could do the same thing to a key member of the invading group.

     

    This would make greifing much more of a pain in the butt and not worth the effort. Griefing is usually done by 1-2 people that are bored looking to annoy people. It is usually not done by entire groups on PvE servers.