Report the player and then put him on ignore. Ignore all he does, because it is the fuel he needs to grief. They have fun to deal with the reactions out of griefing, not griefing itself. Dont give them, what they want to get: Attention.
Iksar said:Darkhorse said:It would really help if the DEVS added a community reputation system that the players could use to report people that are rude or kill/loot steal and when you look at them you would see that community reputation. Of course you would have some people that would try to mess with that system but you could limit the reporting to people that have grouped with the individual.
Never going to happen though, too easy to abuse no matter the implementation.
Agreed. A tool like that meant to stop griefing would just be utilized as a griefing tool. Limiting it to people that have grouped with that person is easily defeated by an ****** just having his buddies group with a person they wish to target.
I always turn on my chat log right away. Then I ask them politely to stop. The log may not show exactly what that player was doing, but griefers I've encountered usually felt free to talk all sorts of trash back at me when I asked them to stop. A log of that goes a long way to convincing GMs that you're telling the truth. Not to mention that the combat info in such a log can add a lot of corroboration. While you shouldn't expect a griefer to get banned because of your complaint, you have to believe that enough complaints on the record will eventually turn into some kind of consequences for the griefer.
The best outcome I've ever had in dealing with a griefer was in a very socially focused game - Asheron's Call. Guilds were important, so I noted the griefer's affiliation and went and posted a POLITE rant on his guild's forums. Within a day or so, his guild Monarch contacted me live ingame to apologize and ask for details. She didn't say exactly what his consequence would be, and I didn't really care. The point was made, and her attitude convinced me that he would learn some kind of lesson. I was happy.
Given the focus on social connections that Pantheon is striving for, I have real hope that griefing will be strongly curtailed by the high value of social interactions. Of course I don't expect any game to completely eliminate it.
Liav said:In games where the staff actually cares: Report and move on.
In games where the staff doesn't care: Do the same thing, or worse, in return.
Rules only matter as far as they are enforced. Can't remember the last time training someone in EQ actually got me in trouble.
This is pretty much how I Look at it. We as the community have a certain amount of power when it comes to inviting people into pugs, but if a player has a bunch of friends in game they won't be as inclined to behave, especially if their friends are of the same mindset. I won't report someone for a first offense unless it is really bad, I think having the ability to keep my own in game notes on people would be great, and has been suggested by someone else in the community before. If I look up a name and have negative notes made about them I will be far less inclined to help when they ask.
Feyshtey said:Iksar said:Darkhorse said:It would really help if the DEVS added a community reputation system that the players could use to report people that are rude or kill/loot steal and when you look at them you would see that community reputation. Of course you would have some people that would try to mess with that system but you could limit the reporting to people that have grouped with the individual.
Never going to happen though, too easy to abuse no matter the implementation.
Agreed. A tool like that meant to stop griefing would just be utilized as a griefing tool. Limiting it to people that have grouped with that person is easily defeated by an ****** just having his buddies group with a person they wish to target.
Yup, as this thread (and many others) point out, it may sound good in theory, but it never actually works out well.
Put them on ignore and make note of the offense (if it could be handled as an in-game record then great otherwise I'll record it outside of the game). Then just leave and move on. There's generally plenty of content so no big deal. Note I am speaking as a casual player so the times where it really matters is few and far between and probably only on some key quest line aspect or some specific loot. However, we've always been able to just come back later. The person is "persona non grata" as far as me and my friends are concerned. Oh yeah, and that person becomes an ignore for friends and guildmates - which is why an ability to keep track via an in-game notebook - even if it is client based is great. I trust my friends and generally I trust my guildmates (if it's a small enough guild that everyone is at least familiar - too large a guild and everything is lost in the noise and crowd) - so if they say put this person on ignore and here is why, then I will put them on ignore.
Also, generally, coming at it from a casual player point-of-view, the griefer generally moves on and out-paces and out-levels me and the content area in soon enough time and they are gone and have moved on.
It's how I deal with griefers. I just move on and go enjoy some other content for a while. Come back later or the next day. Easy enough to do as a casual player.
/FD on the person... I mean... /duel... or maybe just /report.
But, really just make players need each other for progression, don't have massive servers or cross server grouping, so players get to know the people on the server instead of just using others for a 5 minute anonymous pickup group to finish a quest.
Server fame/infamy will make a return. Ninja looters, Trainers, a-holes will be known and unless its a guild of them - griefing will work itself out. Let the community handle or /report if it escalates past the ability to community police.
Raidan said:/FD on the person... I mean... /duel... or maybe just /report.
But, really just make players need each other for progression, don't have massive servers or cross server grouping, so players get to know the people on the server instead of just using others for a 5 minute anonymous pickup group to finish a quest.
Server fame/infamy will make a return. Ninja looters, Trainers, a-holes will be known and unless its a guild of them - griefing will work itself out. Let the community handle or /report if it escalates past the ability to community police.
You have the way of it, as usual.
Kilsin said:How do you handle griefing players in PvE MMORPGs without breaking the rules yourself? #PRF #Communitymatters
Put them on ignore and continue playing. If they prevent me from progressing? I let my wallet do the talking (I un-subscribe and go play one of the other 10 MMO's where other players can't prevent me from progressing). Pretty simple. Life is too short to spend my time being a customer of a company that, by design, permits toxic behavior to disrupt the progression of paying customers.
Yes, I understand Visoinary Realms is designing toxic behavior into Pantheon. When the time comes and the situation arises, I'll have to make the same decision I have with every other MMO.
If it is an individual it is never a big problem . Ignore is what works best . An individual can't KS a group, the worst he can do is to train . If he does it despite having been talked to, I find a way to get him killed and make sure his reputation becomes abysally bad .
The only big problem are Guilds where the worst scum generally gathers . These people don't care for reputation because they can always play with like minded individuals so that they can disrupt groups, train, KS and monopolize content as they want . It is rare (inexistent ?) that whole Guilds get banned so that they have a sentiment of impunity regardless of what they do and how much they break rules and play nice policies . I first report to a GM (if any GM exist) and if nothing happens, only 2 attitudes are possible :
1) Submit, shut up and go out of their way whenever and wherever they appear .
2) Disrupt their raids . Kill as many as possible of them by training . It won't make them change but will give you a small satisfaction of having repaid them in kind .
I tend to choose 2) .
Unfortunately we'll always deal with this behavior because most people are so rotten they can't tolerate the thought that you could have more success than them,
so they do everything within their power to make life miserable.
My cooking mentor recently told me I was a dirty noble for example,that she had such hard times and that I should undergo them too now
During my first weeks of stage en entreprise,she took vacation :D
I laughed in her face and told her that if she think what she is doing with all the frozen warm-up foods is cooking ,she is severely mistaking
Left her in the illusion she succeeded in griefing me,while actually she did me a favor by saving me from her pathetic fate
You'd be surprised by how many wish others ill,sometimes even your own family.
The advantage you have over griefers is that they often don't know you
while they think they have figured it all out how they can hurt people
Loorn has some good advise;ignore them if there is no relation
or share your untouchable happiness because they hate that.Sharing an epic in chat and act like it just dropped for you,thank them for that.They hate it when you are happy
There can never be an anti grief system indeed,people will use it as a grief system.Only if it was out of the player's hands perhaps.
But in that case the game would need to identify what griefing behavior is and it is questionable if a game would be able to do that.Karma and magic find(affecting the rate at which you find nice goodies) might be tools to reward/punish certain behavior.But can a game identify what is good and bad behavior?
Play nice rules would be nice again, and somewhat enforced. Warning or bans would be important if players not just grief but actually harass other players. No reason for it honestly but people must feel tough somehow. I honestly think it has something to do with being taken off of mommies milk to early.. but hey what do i know.
Since Shadowplay and fraps etc, all work well it appears to be more common then not when catching cheaters and that.
@kilsin are you guys just looking for new ideas? in other games what they do?
vjek said:Yes, I understand Visionary Realms is designing toxic behavior into Pantheon.
Then you understand incorrectly lol. That's an exaggeration if ever I saw one. It would be much more accurate to say they are including some mechanics that are typically more susceptible to toxic behavior. But that doesn't mean that kind of behavior will be common.
There is a vast difference between toxic and competative or community building elements which is what VR are trying to accomplish here. Unfortunately, trying to accomplish one often makes abuse on the other end of the spectrum easier. Hopefully Pantheon attracts a more mature community although there will always be some...
Some sort of debuff the GM's could give for repetitive bad behavior would be ideal. One that lasts like 24 hours. So that way no one does it too often and it would only be for someone seriously infamous. Half exp, speed, stats, etc. Then no one has to get banned unless it's a serious offense, but it's enough to make people not want to be too infamous on a server; unless they wanna be that kinda person and risk the debuff. The debuff wouldn't necessarily prevent them from playing, but it would prevent them from doing the same griefing for that 24 hours and prevent progress into levels and such. People can then surpass them and move on.
In Archeage, people reported blood stains and once the reported got killed they would be sent to jail if there was enough infamy. Too much infamy gave them 3,000 minutes in jail (most I've seen so far). That's a bit excessive, but I mean they were a pirate and kinda lived for the trolling. But since there is no open world pvp in pantheon (yet?), the debuff may work well like the infamy system in Archeage. If they were in jail they risked missing out on events and such. Same thing could be applied for the debuff.
More importantly, how is Pantheon staff going to deal with complaints about griefers? :-)
I think how people react depends on what kind of observation and action GMs are willing to do. In current day EQ this is basically nothing. So people either leave or try to fight back.
In a better staffed game with GMs willing to do something reactions could be different.
One of the main things that I enjoy about MMO is just the random **** that happens for better or worse.
Get trained, barely live... whew.
Almost die to a mob and have someone save you.
SG to docks... RUN !
All this kind of stuff makes it worth the effort imo.
So I just treat the griefers as another random element to be avoided or enjoyed.
Kiz~
Iksar said:Liav said:In games where the staff actually cares: Report and move on.
In games where the staff doesn't care: Do the same thing, or worse, in return.
Rules only matter as far as they are enforced. Can't remember the last time training someone in EQ actually got me in trouble.
This.
The whole bad reputation thing won't generally stop some people as I have known guilds in the past that turn a blind eye to their own members acting like jerks. It *could* end up being a bit worse in Pantheon where those with bad reputations only need 5 other friends to do high(est) level content since raids are not the focus.
I hope there are enough GMs/Guides to manage things and hopefully with powerful tools. It would be interesting to see GMs able to even disable specific abilities for a period of time for griefers, such as feign death.
This.
I've been talking about this since these forums opened. I was roundly shouted down early on. "Communithy policing will handle it!" I was told. "Making GMs deal with griefing is stupid!"
I hope I am wrong. I would love, love, love to be wrong. I am afraid, however, that I am not. Small groups of (insert pejorative here) can ruin the game for large numbers of 'regular' players. I've seen it over and over. No amount of community policing has ever worked, that I have witnessed. Full stop. Because there are people who play the game to have the fun of griefing. That's the majority of their enjoyment.
But, maybe I'm wrong with this game. I would like nothing better.
Liav said:In games where the staff actually cares: Report and move on.
In games where the staff doesn't care: Do the same thing, or worse, in return.
Rules only matter as far as they are enforced. Can't remember the last time training someone in EQ actually got me in trouble.
Sadly, this. I wish it wasnt so, but I'll say it again, rules are only good as long as they're enforced. If reporting players does not yield results, players will look to alternative means to solve their problems. If they can't solve the problem on their own, some will opt to simply quit playing.