Ha. Fair enough. I think my biggest gripe was that the whole point - to me, at least - of being able to use a Controller in an MMO is that it gives me the ability to hook up the ol' computer to my big screen TV, sit on a recliner with a cooler of beer at hand, and go to town. Having to get off my recliner and grab my keyboard just to type "Hello" didn't work with that dream. I'm pretty sure that I ended up hunched weirdly over in my reclinder with the keyboard in my lap than I did actually, y'know, reclining. I think FF14 hurt my back. I smell a lawsuit.
Amsai said: @ Ox Could you eloborate on limiting gameplay. I mean I guess it depends on what you mean. The biggest problem Ive ever encountered is direct targeting like in FPSs or special targeting like in Divinity OS with specifically placing and indicating the start/stop points of an Ice wall (ridiculously fun game btw). I mean if Pantheon is tab target I fail to see a problem. D-pad = tab, X = interact/confirm. Macros for shortcuts and more detailed commands. Have you seen how FFXIV works with gamepad and their cross hotbar for gamepads? Like I said I guess it depends on what the devs envision for gameplay and controls. But if its tab target and standard MMO controls then I cant see it being a difficult challenge. Or do you mean consoles and there typical use of very linear gameplay? If thats the case that is a choice by devs, they can and have made very non-linear gameplay before. But it isnt like they cant do it. Or do you mean the console ganers cant handle it? Again that depends on if you mean actual console gamers as opposed to casual users.
You pretty much coverd what I ahve experienced and the other side is the world in general. I guess my take on this is I like to point myself in any direction and head off inot the distance. I do not like being funneled into content. Console games always made me feel that way. Plus all the technical issues. Hope that answers that one.
Ox
Amsai said: Haha true enough. And if thats the case FFXIV hurt my feelings. Way to alienate the XI playerbase in favor of the WoW audience Sqeenix!
Naw not trying to do that. I thing the Consoles work fine for most for the gamer they like. Pantheon might be able to pull it off. They have a good team technically so who knows.
Good discussion though. I wish the Consols had the power my current monster PC has in a compact size. Like I said the next couple of years we may see it.
Ox
qalyar said: Console gaming and "console-style gaming" strikes me as incompatible with the tenets, unless, at a minimum, there's a solution to the lack of console keyboards. If you cannot type, you cannot communicate effectively. There have been options in some MMOs to have preset communication options, but that's never been (and really cannot be) successful. The death of communication in modern MMOs is one of the biggest draws of this game.
I have never played on a console (well back in the Zelda and Donkey Kong days for a time) So voice chat wouldn't be available for consoles? Or say something like Teamspeak (example) Also I did experience a roleplaying game where the port for PC wasn't that great ..it was a Dragon Age game (latest one..played for a couple hours and dropped it in disappointment) the prior Dragon Age games were fine on PC but the very last one, seemed kind of linear. If the ports are done right...then that shouldn't be a huge problem, should it? But if the PC end of things ends up limited and linear due to any limitations on the console, I'm afraid that wouldn't be a good result. Would like to say I am unfamiliar with today's console and what it can take on.
qalyar said: Limiting communication to voice chat is a terror of the modern MMO. It requires additional hardware. It makes some people uncomfortable. It is problematic in home environments when nearby family members are watching tv or studying. And, of course, it is transient. If I have to step away from the computer, I can read a "strat chat" (or just casual conversation) in text; voice chat that I missed, I've missed forever.
To be honest we played with text chat back in the day, still had time to socialize between pulls and such. I would be quite fine with text chat myself. :) But it usually comes down to what the group wants. :)
qalyar said: It requires additional hardware.< Not this sentence between these other two>. It is problematic in home environments when nearby family members are watching tv or studying.
This^^^^^ is why I stopped playing ESO on my PS4.
Plus when your walking through town you get:
baby crying in the background (maybe hes upset about failing an item upgrade idk)
Guy with wife yelling at him
And that asshole that has his mic and headphones too close or the pickup too high so its just reverbing like crazy.
And the crackling voice of pubescent children
Completely breaks the immersion
I didnt know FF11 had keyboard and mouse functionality. That could change my stance on the whole concept if it worked well on the new gen systems.
I like how this thread is about consoles, but 95% of the replies have nothing to do with consoles. Bickering about proximity voice chat has nothing to do with the topic of the thread.
Stop derailing ****.
Keyboards have been supported in consoles as long as I can remember. I used a keyboard to communicate with people in EQOA, on a PlayStation 2.
I dont think anyone was trying to derail. I think this has mostly been a good discussion. Some didnt know about keyboards on consoles and were justifiably worried it would turn into an mmo with either only terrible voicechat or simplified emotes (cough) Destiny (cough).
And thanks Liav for the confirmation, I had thought EQOA had keyboard functionality too like XI but wasnt 100% positive.
Oxillion said:Hi Everyone,
I had a friend ask me about this and was not sure how to answer. I know I don’t want this but some folks like the ability to play games like this on them. I looked in the FAQ and there wasn’t anything there and started to scan the forums for this. I decided to post anyway.
Is Pantheon going to be put out in that format?
Ox
I belive EQ had a platform for the PS3 not sure how well that turned out I played it for a bit but nuthing beats PC..
From my understanding the Devs would have to modify the code to run on a console platform. I am not sure what is entailed in such an endeavor but I am sure it’s not simple to do. I think its going to come down to what VR decide on a path for the game over time. Resources and deploying what essentially is a second IP may not be in the best interest for VR right now. Can it be done? Sure. VR has to make that call. For all you console gamers I hope they do but for now I think the PC version will be the primary focus.
Ox
Oxillion said:From my understanding the Devs would have to modify the code to run on a console platform. I am not sure what is entailed in such an endeavor but I am sure it’s not simple to do. I think its going to come down to what VR decide on a path for the game over time. Resources and deploying what essentially is a second IP may not be in the best interest for VR right now. Can it be done? Sure. VR has to make that call. For all you console gamers I hope they do but for now I think the PC version will be the primary focus.
Ox
This!
@Dullahan and others.
There isn't a problem with mmo's or pc games going on the console. The problem arises from the way they go about it. Let's face it, most companies are slapdash in there design and approach to games nowdays.. that's the real problem. Platform or controller really doesn't matter.. it's a choice. The problem is them not really using abstract design to take in controller & platform considerations.
As Amsai said earlier, the reason FFXIV did so well with both platforms is that they abstracted the gui and controls to cater to both. Most games companies don't do this.. Designer's like merge and over simplify controls, gameplay and mechcanics.. when really this is the wrong approach with games, but not with functionality mind you (you have your Mr Steve Jobs to thank for this). Games are meant to be fun and by merging and simplfing, rather than abstracting they try to please everyone, really it's only half-catering for each side. If they abstract correctly they'd have hardly any impact on the main games development and but cater to both fully. The only down side is seperate servers as the advantages and disadvantages between two irl physically controllers will never be resolved without this.. (unless they merge.. which ofc produces poor gameplay etc for each side; which deminishes the quality and feel of the game.) However they can still allow the controller choice to be there if they wish.. just as long as players know it will never be the same.. and your reputation will suffer for it. Games are an art form; not functional tools like a phone.. I really wish game designers understood this better.. Everytime I see a game do this, I facepalm. I'm not a designer or even an artist.. it's just common sense.
Tralyan said:Ha. Fair enough. I think my biggest gripe was that the whole point - to me, at least - of being able to use a Controller in an MMO is that it gives me the ability to hook up the ol' computer to my big screen TV, sit on a recliner with a cooler of beer at hand, and go to town. Having to get off my recliner and grab my keyboard just to type "Hello" didn't work with that dream. I'm pretty sure that I ended up hunched weirdly over in my reclinder with the keyboard in my lap than I did actually, y'know, reclining. I think FF14 hurt my back. I smell a lawsuit.
Haha, love the lawsuit comment. Wireless keyboards will work too though :)
Just a side note, Pubg has reissued a console version of their game from test server and the comments coming back are nothing but a badly ported Console game to the PC based.
I for one am old school and can not stand the Console versions linked directly to any PC game. I like the system we used to have and hope it doesnt come to our game as far as "badly ported" video game for the PC. Turns it too cartoonish style for the young?? i dunno
qalyar said: Console gaming and "console-style gaming" strikes me as incompatible with the tenets, unless, at a minimum, there's a solution to the lack of console keyboards. If you cannot type, you cannot communicate effectively. There have been options in some MMOs to have preset communication options, but that's never been (and really cannot be) successful. The death of communication in modern MMOs is one of the biggest draws of this game.
I played ESO on PS4 because my situation wasn't conducive to PC gaming at the time. ESO has voice chat in-game, but that's not the only way to communicate. You can plug in keyboards and type in ESO on PS4 just like you can in any MMO on PC. There is no real functional difference there. I'm not sure what your console MMO experience is, but your stated limitations do not apply in ESO on PS4.
You could type with a keyboard in EQOA, and that was on a PS2. No idea what has people convinced that you can't use a keyboard on a console.
There is no such thing as "console-style gaming", only that controls are often altered in such a way that it is intuitive to play with a controller. Whether or not Pantheon's combat system could reasonably be ported to a controller is completely unknown at this point because we know barely anything about it.
EQOA played incredibly well with a controller, so it is very doable.
Consoles are a boat anchor on game development. They are the direct cause of exclusive titles, which only server to hurt the consumer(in multiple ways). Their controls are garbage, their performance is garbage, and their hardware holds back gaming development as a whole by years. Are they fun? Sure, you're playing a video game. But play that game on a PC and the experience can be better in almost every way, cost, controls, ease of use/access to content, graphics, overall performance, etc, etc, etc.
EQOA was my favorite game all-time, and was exclusive to consoles. FFXI was my second favorite game of all-time and it was cross compatible for both PC and console. The times have changed... it's far easier to have a gaming PC nowadays than it was 15 years ago, but I still don't see any harm in having a console option available for a game. If Pantheon were to release on the PS4, for example, it's basically guaranteed that it would have more players.
Whether or not the costs/efforts to get the game to be console-friendly could be justified, however ... that's something for a development team to determine. FFXI did it and I'm sure they cashed in big-time. The console version wasn't immediately available, either ... it came sometime down the road. I'm glad they did it though ... there was no way I could play the game on a PC at that point in time. Some of my favorite MMO memories are wrapped up in that game.
We should keep in mind that all modern consoles are essentially mid grade gaming PCs under the hood, they are just highly optimized.
My FFXIV guild has a fair number of people who play on their PS4's. You wouldn't know it unless they told you though. They use Bluetooth or usb keyboards to type in game, and run teamspeak/discord through their phones or tablets when we use voice chat.
The only real challenge for developers to support consoles these days is setting up the UI for controller support. That, and negotiating the frankly assinine way the major console services handle things like subscription billing, although that has been slowly improving with the rise of MMO squad based shooters like Destiny, etc.
Bottom line, it can be done, and done well :)
Tralyan said:This is a tough one. Like most of us (i think), I'm against the console platform when it comes to my MMO's.
That said, I feel like we'd be hamstringing ourselves if that attitude continues. Consoles have come a looooooong way. I'd hate to see the population of a game I love suffer just because of the stubbornness of MMO nerds in not wanting to be introduced to a console.
As much as we all may hate the idea, the general gaming community is pro-console, that's not going to change anytime soon.
I don't want to be introduced to a console, thank you, played Zelda and Donkey Kong back in the day....those were fun, but I am an owner of two desk tops that perform nicely when it comes to gaming and other tasks.
If consoles are given access, that's fine as long as the game isn't put on rails to accomodate consoles, or made easier to accomodate consoles.
That said, I haven't touched a console in probably a decade, I do have a tablet which can play rather simplistic facebook games, when I am bored. :) Adding console could work as long as all the commands for console aren't ending up being the commands for Pc, saw this in Dragon Age...choice wheels, for instance.
We do have to remember that Pantheon isn't being funded by large rich entities such as Activision or Blizzard. So what we get depends on what's there financially. Just the same as wishing for all those cut-scenes ala Swtor, millions of dollars were spent on that game. One cut-scene for a minute and a half costs $50,000 ..so be careful what you wish for. After release that should be easier on the "bank" and possibly allow the Devs to add more options for other platforms.
Cana