Hi Everyone,
I had a friend ask me about this and was not sure how to answer. I know I don’t want this but some folks like the ability to play games like this on them. I looked in the FAQ and there wasn’t anything there and started to scan the forums for this. I decided to post anyway.
Is Pantheon going to be put out in that format?
Ox
This is a tough one. Like most of us (i think), I'm against the console platform when it comes to my MMO's.
That said, I feel like we'd be hamstringing ourselves if that attitude continues. Consoles have come a looooooong way. I'd hate to see the population of a game I love suffer just because of the stubbornness of MMO nerds in not wanting to be introduced to a console.
As much as we all may hate the idea, the general gaming community is pro-console, that's not going to change anytime soon.
Oxillion said:Ah I was looking for console specifically. Thanks for the info though. I need to open my mind on this stuff.
Ox
I'm pretty close minded on this subject too, Ox. The only upside I see to it would be the possibility of more subs for VR. (but would they gain more than they would lose in the long term?) I just don't think that Pantheon or this style of MMORPG really works that well on consoles. I could be wrong and maybe it's just my own close mindedness preventing me from seeing it but I doubt it.
To answer your original question, I haven't seen any mention of console support anywhere.
I doubt we will see this. But I am pro-console myself. I grew up on them and mostly prefe to play a game on my PS4 when possible. Of course there are games (recently the new Tomb Raider) in which I have to go PC. But if the choice is available I go console.
FFXI was also oldschool and it did well on the console. The down side of that was they didnt have "proper" support for PC. I had a buddy that was forced to play Keyboard only for a few years I think (yes thats wasd and arrow keys). Not to mention its very consoley UI. Eventually they put in decent PC controls and their were third party work arounds and macros for folks that despised the menu system.
I dont care for FFXIV, but one of the few areas they got right was seperate but fully integrated PC and gamepad controls. This was obviously more expensive, time consuming, etc. But the effort paid off to make good controls for Both console and PC useres or people playing on PC that just wanted to use gamepad.
Would I like to see it? Sure. Id actually be happy with just gamepad controls, but the console market has been introduced of late to MMOs and both FFXIV and ESO appear to be doing very well on them. Not something to be ignored. But ultimately its up to the developers and the success of this game. Because there is no point, if there is no audience(for console). And there is no point if the devs dont put in ample effort to ensure that neither gamepad or PC controls suffer for it.
Short version: Yes please! But dont half ass it!
Tralyan said:This is a tough one. Like most of us (i think), I'm against the console platform when it comes to my MMO's.
That said, I feel like we'd be hamstringing ourselves if that attitude continues. Consoles have come a looooooong way. I'd hate to see the population of a game I love suffer just because of the stubbornness of MMO nerds in not wanting to be introduced to a console.
As much as we all may hate the idea, the general gaming community is pro-console, that's not going to change anytime soon.
Consoles need to adapt or die afaic.
They were necessary back when people didn't have PCs. Today, that is no longer the case. They at least need to natively support keyboard and mouse peripherals. While I believe MMOs should not revolve around 10 hotbars of 100 keybindings, designing games around severely limited input devices will only hold gaming back.
Dullahan said:Tralyan said:This is a tough one. Like most of us (i think), I'm against the console platform when it comes to my MMO's.
That said, I feel like we'd be hamstringing ourselves if that attitude continues. Consoles have come a looooooong way. I'd hate to see the population of a game I love suffer just because of the stubbornness of MMO nerds in not wanting to be introduced to a console.
As much as we all may hate the idea, the general gaming community is pro-console, that's not going to change anytime soon.
Consoles need to adapt or die afaic.
They were necessary back when people didn't have PCs. Today, that is no longer the case. They at least need to natively support keyboard and mouse peripherals. While I believe MMOs should not revolve around 10 hotbars of 100 keybindings, designing games around severely limited input devices will only hold gaming back.
I re-iterate my stance that I am pro-PC. Always have been, always will be. With that said, and in regards to the quote I've Bolded ...
The same could be said the other way. PC's need to adapt or die.
Yes, more people now have access to PC's. It's also true that more people also own consoles, and even more people also own smart phones. More people own technology in general. That does not change the statistic that most gamers out there prefer consoles over PC's. I think it can feasibly be said that PC games need to adapt to include console playability in order to continue as an industry. This goes along with how Amsai (?), I think, mentioned how FF14 had options for both UI's. One for the console gamer, one for the PC gamer. Frankly, I don't see the harm to that, for us as PC gamers.
In the old days, one of the arguments that many used was the character of those who preferred consoles over PC's. For some reason, we all thought that console users were immature little twats with the attention span of a mouse. Let's be real. That's everyone now, not just console gamers. We can no longer use that argument in trying to prevent console gamers from enjoying our games.
I very much respect pretty much every post you've made, Dullahan, but I do believe you're being slightly obtuse about this.
Again, I HATE consoles. Hate them. With a passion. But I LOVE my MMO's more than I hate consoles, and if one way to continue the longevity of an MMO I love is to introduce it to console gaming, then I'd do it.
There are controllers out there, useable in consoles, that could handle the amount of input needed for a PC game. It's already being used.
Tralyan said:I re-iterate my stance that I am pro-PC. Always have been, always will be. With that said, and in regards to the quote I've Bolded ...
The same could be said the other way. PC's need to adapt or die.
Yes, more people now have access to PC's. It's also true that more people also own consoles, and even more people also own smart phones. More people own technology in general. That does not change the statistic that most gamers out there prefer consoles over PC's. I think it can feasibly be said that PC games need to adapt to include console playability in order to continue as an industry. This goes along with how Amsai (?), I think, mentioned how FF14 had options for both UI's. One for the console gamer, one for the PC gamer. Frankly, I don't see the harm to that, for us as PC gamers.
In the old days, one of the arguments that many used was the character of those who preferred consoles over PC's. For some reason, we all thought that console users were immature little twats with the attention span of a mouse. Let's be real. That's everyone now, not just console gamers. We can no longer use that argument in trying to prevent console gamers from enjoying our games.
I very much respect pretty much every post you've made, Dullahan, but I do believe you're being slightly obtuse about this.
Again, I HATE consoles. Hate them. With a passion. But I LOVE my MMO's more than I hate consoles, and if one way to continue the longevity of an MMO I love is to introduce it to console gaming, then I'd do it.
There are controllers out there, useable in consoles, that could handle the amount of input needed for a PC game. It's already being used.
PC gaming revenue is actually considerably higher than any other platform, including consoles and mobile. A large portion of that is social media games, but still, they are on played on the PC. "It might surprise you to hear that a new report shows the humble PC generated more worldwide gaming revenue than any other segment of the market last year." Also to note, retail sales for PC are not even included in the data.
PCs don't need to adapt, because they are capable of easily running any game on any platform. Any controller from any platform is plug and play with my PC. The games those consoles run were created on a PC. Yes, there are more people playing video games across all platforms than the PC, but when you compare those of any major gaming platform, the difference is negligible. One does not adapt to a lower quality standard, and consoles are lower quality in every way from graphical capabilities, to processing power, to peripheral input capabilities.
And while the things you are saying are correct, I still believe they do more harm than good for the games of "gamers." They are holding us back across all genres. Furthermore, people who call themselves gamers today were not the gamers of yesteryear. From a totally non-elitist standpoint, before recent years, gamers have always been players who spend the majority of their free time playing video games, generally those on the cutting edge, and particularly those in a cooperative or competitive environment. Today, anyone with a cell phone app is now dubbed a gamer. Its ridiculous.
Do they have their place? Sure, just like fast food MMOs have their place. However, the more money they pour into those devices, the less money we see for the games that real gamers want to play. Maybe you're happy playing Candy Crush, but the mass exodus in online game development, especially PC games and MMORPGs, is indicative of a real problem. An even greater problem is the exclusivity and gimmicks each platform employs by buying out games for a particular console and preventing cross-platform compatibility. Why, oh why in 2016 are we not all able to play games online together across all platforms? Money. Its certainly not because it isn't possible or because they have the player's best interest at heart. Not a network tech, but I would bet they use the same network protocols.
Microsoft is actually taking step to rectify this problem, but only because they've fallen behind Playstation as of late. They are pushing for cross platform compatibility and Ive even heard they plan to allow players to play or at least stream their games to the PC.
Personally, if there is one thing I like about RSI and Star Citizen, its their championing of PC games and highlighting the limitations of other platforms.
Dullahan said:Tralyan said:I re-iterate my stance that I am pro-PC. Always have been, always will be. With that said, and in regards to the quote I've Bolded ...
The same could be said the other way. PC's need to adapt or die.
Yes, more people now have access to PC's. It's also true that more people also own consoles, and even more people also own smart phones. More people own technology in general. That does not change the statistic that most gamers out there prefer consoles over PC's. I think it can feasibly be said that PC games need to adapt to include console playability in order to continue as an industry. This goes along with how Amsai (?), I think, mentioned how FF14 had options for both UI's. One for the console gamer, one for the PC gamer. Frankly, I don't see the harm to that, for us as PC gamers.
In the old days, one of the arguments that many used was the character of those who preferred consoles over PC's. For some reason, we all thought that console users were immature little twats with the attention span of a mouse. Let's be real. That's everyone now, not just console gamers. We can no longer use that argument in trying to prevent console gamers from enjoying our games.
I very much respect pretty much every post you've made, Dullahan, but I do believe you're being slightly obtuse about this.
Again, I HATE consoles. Hate them. With a passion. But I LOVE my MMO's more than I hate consoles, and if one way to continue the longevity of an MMO I love is to introduce it to console gaming, then I'd do it.
There are controllers out there, useable in consoles, that could handle the amount of input needed for a PC game. It's already being used.
PC gaming revenue is actually considerably higher than any other platform, including consoles and mobile. A large portion of that is social media games, but still, they are on played on the PC. "It might surprise you to hear that a new report shows the humble PC generated more worldwide gaming revenue than any other segment of the market last year." Also to note, retail sales for PC are not even included in the data.
PCs don't need to adapt, because they are capable of easily running any game on any platform. Any controller from any platform is plug and play with my PC. The games those consoles run were created on a PC. Yes, there are more people playing video games across all platforms than the PC, but when you compare those of any major gaming platform, the difference is negligible. One does not adapt to a lower quality standard, and consoles are lower quality in every way from graphical capabilities, to processing power, to peripheral input capabilities.
And while the things you are saying are correct, I still believe they do more harm than good for the games of "gamers." They are holding us back across all genres. Furthermore, people who call themselves gamers today were not the gamers of yesteryear. From a totally non-elitist standpoint, before recent years, gamers have always been players who spend the majority of their free time playing video games, generally those on the cutting edge, and particularly those in a cooperative or competitive environment. Today, anyone with a cell phone app is now dubbed a gamer. Its ridiculous.
Do they have their place? Sure, just like fast food MMOs have their place. However, the more money they pour into those devices, the less money we see for the games that real gamers want to play. Maybe you're happy playing Candy Crush, but the mass exodus in online game development, especially PC games and MMORPGs, is indicative of a real problem. An even greater problem is the exclusivity and gimmicks each platform employs by buying out games for a particular console and preventing cross-platform compatibility. Why, oh why in 2016 are we not all able to play games online together across all platforms? Money. Its certainly not because it isn't possible or because they have the player's best interest at heart. Not a network tech, but I would bet they use the same network protocols.
Microsoft is actually taking step to rectify this problem, but only because they've fallen behind Playstation as of late. They are pushing for cross platform compatibility and Ive even heard they plan to allow players to play or at least stream their games to the PC.
Personally, if there is one thing I like about RSI and Star Citizen, its their championing of PC games and highlighting the limitations of other platforms.
I am not a consol player and have built my PC to handle anything I throw at it. The issue with consoles is the lack of power and the closed worlds that are typically created for them due to limitations. With that said technology is improving but you will never see a consol with an I7 with boatloads of ram and a GTX1080 in it. It would then be called a PC. I can see the graphics cards completely taking over the processes to run games in the near future. We are almost there now. Currently the cheaply made consoles can handle the heat or the power.
As far as gameplay I think people should have a choice in what platform they would like to enjoy Pantheon. I know its not a top priority but I think it would be nice to see the console people added to the mix.
It does add some layers of complexity to the code of the game but I think for now consoles should be on the back burner until Pantheon is up and running flawlessly.
Ox
Consoles will never die. I don't really personally care if Pantheon was ported to consoles, as long as it was a profitable endeavor.
Consoles have advantages in ease of use and marketing. I'm well aware of the advantages PC holds over consoles and PC is also my preference, but that's just the reality of the situation. Even with as simple as it is to build a PC today, it still has nothing on the ease of use of a console.
There is no need to build a computer, you can buy them assembled with everything preinstalled and have it shipped to you door, just like a console. Everyone under the age of 60 knows how to install a program on windows, so there is no longer any greater ease of use with a modern console. You can also build one with superior hardware for just a couple hundred dollars more than a console, or roughly the same price off of ebay.
Consoles are archaic, and with gamers trending to PCs in recent years, they will have to adapt or become obsolete. Especially with VR growing in popularity, PC gaming only stands to get more popular. Currently even top end hardware struggles to provide good framerates. This will be even more problematic for consoles that have maintained popularity mainly because of their affordable price tag. That will go out the window with VR models, and I suspect people will conclude that they might as well use them on their PC.
I think you're still underestimating consoles, and you're overestimating the capabilities of the end user.
With consoles you don't have to worry about the quality of your hardware supporting a game. Everything is streamlined. No risk of viruses. No need to have several different platforms (Origin, Steam, etc.) to run your game library.
PC gaming is great for people who know all of those things. They are not the majority of users.
Edit: Not to mention that this is a very American-centric way of looking at it. The console market is disgustingly huge in Japan, for instance. PC gaming is a very small (although sorta growing) niche.
Maybe the niche hardware market is to create an adapter card for the PC that allows console controller use, with software to engineer the interface.
May not be so far away from VR adaptability? the same mechanics to adapt to VR can be re-engineered for console type controllers?
If I recall the issue is also accessibility with gears of war they first advertised that you can play on-line with 6 friends? but to be able to access everyone else like a MMORPG needed- not so much PC like abilities- but servers that would support consoles- am I right?
Liav said:I think you're still underestimating consoles, and you're overestimating the capabilities of the end user.
With consoles you don't have to worry about the quality of your hardware supporting a game. Everything is streamlined. No risk of viruses. No need to have several different platforms (Origin, Steam, etc.) to run your game library.
PC gaming is great for people who know all of those things. They are not the majority of users.
Edit: Not to mention that this is a very American-centric way of looking at it. The console market is disgustingly huge in Japan, for instance. PC gaming is a very small (although sorta growing) niche.
PC gaming has been dominant for going on 3 years now. The reign of consoles is over, and I imagine PCs will only grow further in popularity with VR.
To stay on topic, I have no problem with Pantheon being available for consoles, BUT (and its a big one) only if its compatible. Absolutely zero thought should be taken for making the game console compatible, because it would likely require altering their intended design. I think they would stand to lose more PC players than they stand to gain from the audience that would play by way of consoles - by a wide margin.
If VR launches a polished product that is both challenging and immersive, it will probably draw a whole new generation of gamers. Unless it becomes some sort of classic mmo phenomenon, I don't see enough console gamers existing within Pantheon's target demographic.
I agree with very much of both the pros and cons. I do think it worth noting that the article admits that most of this PC revenue comes from MMOs and MOBAs. There is also a pretty significant portion that is craptastic things like facebook gaming.
So I dont beleive at this point in time we can say that PC is winning out and that console gaming is going to disappear. And as more companies start warming up to the fact that console gamers are willing to spend money in cash shops and on subscriptions, this could end up with console gaming exploding into new revenue. Dont underestimate the console market. They may not be as savvy or in some cases as dedicated, or even as knowledgable of tech, but that doesnt mean they wont plop down money like it grows on trees.
Its true that consoles are cheaper, but it doesnt always come down to getting a console because you cant afford a PC. Its like Liav said, sometimes having to "work" with a game to get it to run on your PC is a pain in the ass. Thats the beauty of console gaming, is just putting the game in and it working. Also console gaming is responsible for a lot of innovation in games and genre defining games. Some of my fondest memories are playing console games. Which leads to something both good and bad: exclusivity. Also there are plenty of people that cant, wont , or dont like to play with keyboard and mouse. Once you become familiar with gamepads they are so intuitive and comfortable. And some will say that KB and Mouse are better. I think there are plenty of console gamers that dont care, they only know they are having fun. Games dont need to have complex KB controls to be fun. My preffered set up for any game would be a simple interface, easy controls, but deep gameplay that is both fun and engauging. Also I dont think it would be a problem to have keyboard interface for console MMOs. Its just devs that make dumb decisions like ESO that dont include it on console. Oh and graphics arent everything. Im also not seeing a large list of games that actually need to use super high spec PCs. And those that do are for graphics. Also I think people take the whole PC vs Console arguments too seriously.
But the biggest 2 problems are exclusivity and non-cross platform play from consoles in general. As far as adapting to prevent players from leaving. It wouldnt hurt but I dont think it necessary. Besides I take the opposite approach. I adapt to the platform. And as I said in Pantheon's specific case, the biggest problem would be half assing it. You dont want to undermine the people playing on PC, just to bring in the console players. And whether PC or Console nobody likes a shitty port. Nobody! I dont think these are things that cant be overcome. But it can ONLY happen with the proper financial and personell and time alloted. Defintely a post launch thing if at all.
Absolutely zero thought should be taken for making the game console compatible, because it would likely require altering their intended design
I take this to mean you dont want the devs to start designing the game in ways that make them think things like: How will this work on console or how can we make this work on console? If thats what you mean then I 100% agree. The game should be designed with the intent of making it awesome and making gameplay the best it can be while following the tennets of the game. If they can adapt it to console after the fact, then great
Simple answer for me.
No. I dont see the point. Unless you make the game, hire a seperate staff and then they run with their own seperate version of the game to tinker with according to console users prefrences like ESO. Still I dont see a potentially niche game like this making enough to even require discussions on this topic until maybe 6 months after the release when Solid data has been accumulated to make such a decision.
Amsai said:Absolutely zero thought should be taken for making the game console compatible, because it would likely require altering their intended design
I take this to mean you dont want the devs to start designing the game in ways that make them think things like: How will this work on console or how can we make this work on console? If thats what you mean then I 100% agree. The game should be designed with the intent of making it awesome and making gameplay the best it can be while following the tennets of the game. If they can adapt it to console after the fact, then great
Yes, that is what I mean. Just to be clear, my concern is not at all a time issue because I don't want them to be subject to console limitations either before or after launch if it means simplifying the game in any way to accommodate console players.
@ Dullahan
Right I get that! The only time I would want them to design the game around a console or just for PC gamepad even would be specifically for that. But just to the point of getting good UI and controls the way XIV has done. Not to the point of dumbing down anything or as I said designing things with how do we make this work on console thought process. And basically if the design of the game does not lend itself at all to console or gamepad then dont dumb it down to make that happen. Or if it can work but not well enough for PC and Console players to play at a competitive level (ex: FPSs) then dont do it. It really comes down to how they envision the gameplay will work in conjunction with the UI and controls. And with some games this either inst possible at all or you can do it but it turns out shitty.
@ Fwick
I just would rather them just not then. That honestly would fall into the category of half-assed. If they could do it but feel they need to or maybe have to put console players in different servers then thats just a failure already. I think the way they did it in ESO was stupid. It doesnt even have true mouse targeting, so you dont have to be accurate at all really. So splitting the community into servers based on platform just wasnt necessary. Oh and their controls for gamepad suck. I played the PC beta with my gamepad that I configured, won about 70% of all PvP 1vs1 encounters. Something that I wouldnt have been able to do had I had to worry about real mouse aiming such as in a FPS. Having different servers for rule-sets is ok, but doing it to split up people from different platforms is not.
I asked this question to an Xbox at Microsoft guy I know and he simply stated it comes down to cost of the unit. It has to be marketable and profitable for developers on that platform. I also think he was alluding to the same with the actual code teams involved. I guess it is a dicey mix of is the product good and can we deploy it on the Xbox or PS4.
The more complicated games get the consoles do not seem to fair well. Game play is limiting on most of them I have tried so its not my cup of tea but I can see a serious of major obstacles to go that route in Pantheon.
With that said there are core bumps and functional changes coming to those platforms. Who knows maybe they will be able to compete of sorts. Time will tell.
Ox
@Amsai I realize that I'm backtracking here according to my last posts on the subject, but specifically when it comes to communication - I too played FF14 for a limited amount of time, and I found communicating while trying to use the Controller incredibly frustrating. That may have been a big factor in me not being able to play the game longer than a couple months.
But this is also coming from someone who tends to chat a lot in game. I realize for others who may not be quite as long winded it's a non-issue.