Dullahan said:Hieromonk said:Addditionally, Travel in Pantheon is not going to be trivial like it was in Everquest, or Vanguard. Travel will be respected and a big part of the game.
What? Are you sure you played the same EQ that I played? Maybe you are talking about a later time period, because travel was more meaningful in that it took time and planning than any mmorpg since. We'd be lucky if it was that "respected."
Hieromonk said:So, when LFG you will most almost undoubtedly be lfg in the immediate area. Because no pug is going to wait on you for 25m while you find your way to them. Pantheon will be more proactive and most likely feature a pub-style game mechanic that allows travellers to find & talk with each other quickly and effortlessly.
Pantheon will be vastly different than in Everquest, because instant travel will be limited. Making traveling much more a necessity.
(again) Huh? err.. That was not my experience in EQ. Again, I wouldn't mind seeing travel be even more limited in Pantheon than EQ, but its unfortunately unlikely.
Love your enthusiasm man, but you have a way of letting your imagination and conjectures run away with you.
After the invention of translocation spells, getting around in early EQ was a matter of 20pp... you could be anywhere u wanted in 5m..! With Cobalt Scare being the remote part of the world.. Then comes Plains of Power, & free travel for all..
Granted, the first 6 month of traveling in EQ was tough, but after year in there was a full force of Druids and Wizards to take you anywhere you wanted to go in Kunark... 24/7. EQ has Origin now, makes gating trivial.
P1999EQLandmark said:To Feyshtey:
Most of the classes that didn't do so well in groups exceled when soloing, that was a person’s choice to pick their class. With everything I've seen being put in to Pantheon, I think the class build system/grouping/socialization may lean more towards not many if any being able to 'solo'...at least not entirely.
My paladin couldnt get a group worth a damn in the Kunark era, and it sure as hell wasnt because he could solo. Solo'ing was immensely painful with that class in that era. And they couldnt do significant damage, and couldnt compete in holding agro with the likes of SKs and Warriors. So the issue I'm describing is not limited to classes that could solo at all. That being said, I'm still not interested in global chat at all. I'm simply pointing out in response to Heiro's suggestion that no one should really have ever had trouble finding a group, that there were in fact classes that found getting groups difficult.
P1999EQLandmark said:My first fear is that a global chat system will ruin what many want the economy to be in Pantheon. Even limited to 'LFG' Channels, undoubtedly some will use it as a trade channel and thus you will have global chat...The sub-economies that existed in EQ is what made things so dynamic. Being able to buy items in one area that they are commonly found, then traveling across Norath and reselling at a different price was an entire segment of my gaming experience in EQ.
Absolutely agree. Yet another reason for there not to be global chat channels, outside of guild and such.
Hieromonk said:Everyone who has ever played a true MMORPG understand that certain classes are not solo friendly and are also not the best for most pugs. If you have a fear of not getting into a group, then temper this with the Class one mighht be thinking of making. That is just called logical. But no need to spread that fear through 18 years of flegling mechanics and place them on Pantheon.
I dont dispute this. So in response to it, I'll give you your quote that started this particular tangent :
Hieromonk said:Oddly, you keep imagining needing tons of people in a zone, to find groups. Why..? And how often is not finding a group is actually a problem for you? Who is having these problems and when..? I am unsure of the complaint.
Yes, in response to a nearsighted post, as he was imagining needing tons of players in a zone, so that one can find the right persons for his group (Or for anyone to find anyone?). I had asked why he though that.
Also, instead of accepting a more natural mechanic of: Walking into the local tavern and having everyone who is looking for a group... already there.. and looking for a group. Uno... the concept of an actual building with travelers & adventurers in it... who happen to be looking for more travels & adventure..? (ie: a local meeting spot..?). Some want it like the past, because that is how it was.
So, I was also asking why is a "tavern mechanic" too hard for them..?
Aye, a EQ Paly was a tough choice... but all your own.
But when asked, most claim they are responding for all those players who are always lfg... but not themselves. Take a poll, most don't have probs with finding groups, ever. It was finding CONTENT to group in, that was the problem. A better question about /LFG is: Who here thinks they will be "looking for a group" for hours in Pantheon & why..? And is that fear based on the class you played in EQ...? If you think Players will not be able to connect to other players looking for a group..? Explain why..? (Play your own devil's advocet and self vet your ideas, before posting.)
Additionally, since travel will be harder/tougher... people will naturally be looking for others to group with locally & regionally. So, there is no need for elaborate /lfg mechanic when a local pub mechanic is all you need. So there would be no need for global public chat.. & no global searches.. Use the local talent...
I might add that Pantheon will end up being a much bigger & robust game (content and size) than Both EQ, or VG was. And will expand outward with more content over time. Just like dungeon modules in AD&D, PRF can roll out a unheard of dungeon that may go unoticed for weeks, until a player stumbled upon the entrance, etc. Or a new wall might crumble in an old dungeon that lead to untold depths. That is called dynamic content. And the game world does not have to be static like EQ or VG was. (ie: One day Blackburrow is 4 levels deeper, Or Spiroc Tower is bigger, etc...).
Means that when you travel to the north, you will probably stay there for weeks, then move to a newer region when you find suiting armor, or mats, etc. You won't see people, or Guilds bouncing around the world agressively, because there will be a cost & large scale logistics in doing so. Pantheon is a deeper richer game with a slower paced cadence of living, with higher pitched fights & battles.
Open Chat should follow logical means of local & regional communication (along with sign posts, courier, etc). Then so shall looking for a group, as looking for a grouyp has no speacial meaning for communication than anyone looking for anything else. The debate comes down to some wanting /lfg to be an artificial & automated process.
Just so we're clear : We agree on no global chat.
The rest of your post contains conjecture. You don't know that travel will be more or less significant than it once was in EQ, as an example. (Debating what it is today is irrelevent, since Brad and team have repeatedly mentioned that they didnt build the evolution we've arrived at and fundimentally disagree with much of it.)
That being said, your underlying premise is that if a class sucks at getting groups, don't play that class. And yet you have been among those on the more extreme end of "every meaningful advancement MUST require a group!!!" . Do you believe then that there will be classes designed to inherently be at a disadvantage? If yes, why build them?
Your defense of a class less able to get groups is, "Don't worry, Pantheon will have so much content that this won't be a problem!". Well, I would argue that the greater the amount of content, the more the populace will be distributed in that content. In turn, the more you will have a person that desires to go to a place, to complete a quest, in order to get an advancement, and find that while there might be 100 people in the huge dungeon you imagine, none are in the place that person needs to be. The moral here being that having an excessive amount of content can be counterproductive to the people requiring a group of allies for a thing in a place.
What say you?
I agree.
But not-so-much that if Class sucks at grouping, you shoudn't play it.
Only that you should choose that class knowing that their role is not a group specific class. I do not need to defend, only point out it is someone's own ignorance of not knowing your chosen classes pros & cons. Plus, with combat in Pantheon, knowing your class and when/if to use abilities means the Player is more important to your group, than perhaps the class you are playing. I doubt Brad is designing a game with null & void classes. It is just disrespectful to think brad & co have not learned how to avoid such things. Specially when a year ago he said he was looking forward to class structuring & making some really unique group combat tactics.
Also, lets not forget the fact that Pantheon is a MMORPG game, so what is so wrong with making friends and having them around you, as opposed to 100% always LFG..? Those Players who are questing, go off in all different directions, that does not take away from outward expanse of the game, nore the mention of traveling time and distance. Someone is always looking for something in a MMORPG. Why cater specifically for a small subset of people who can't lean forward? Tanks don't get ports and Wizards don't get swords.. a blacksmith is not a carpenter. Pro & con to everything... how hard you are LFG is self regulating.
Lastly, the desire to want to go somewhere, is not enough. You must actually attempt that journey..
No chat bubbles - please, it is redundant to have a chat box and a chat bubble. And those bubbles fly by too quick or are too small. I would like to be able to create multiple chat boxes to filter different chat or even have tells pop into seperate chat box.
No global chat - organizational based only for the likes of groups/raids/guilds. This makes sense as we will need to communicate Corpse Run efforts or other info to our team. Also, to help facilitate regional auction houses there needs to be a cutoff on global chat so that people can't spam auctions serverwide. G-Bay prices will differ from EC-Tunnel-R-Us and i want to see that. I actually liked old school EC Tunnel. And i feel that city zones should have that air of business.
No cross server chat - If you want to talk to your friends come join your friends. If you want to harrass someone you are going to have to work for it. I am going to choose a server based on the community there. I don't want to have to worry about other servers or communities.
With zones being so large i feel that each zone can and should have its own microcosm. The benefit of this is you can find an out of the way quiet zone and not worry about spam. Or if someone is annoying, instead of rage-quiting the game you just move locations.