So, for the sake of argument, let's say that they are going to do PvP arenas on PvE servers as they have mentioned in a couple of the streams. They specificially mentioned "gladiator arenas". My thought isn't that every city/town have a "gladiator arena", sort of like they had in EQ, but have an arena themed to the city/toown. For instance, Thronefast may have a gladiator arena because it would match the architecrture, but the Elven city may have one that is more suited, appearance-wise, to the architecture of the area rather than a "gladiator arena" appearance.
Thoughts?
Everyone and her sister has been jumping on the so-called battle royale bandwagon. Maybe it won't be traditional pvp at all but everyone will get dumped in and one person will win.
This is a pve game and I doubt if there will be enough interest in arenas to support a lot of them without long queues. It may make more sense to have worldwide or at least continental queues although there can be two or three or 50 skins for the arena with the appearance chosen randomly each time.
I like the idea of arenas being different from each other. Perhaps a few good cities will have them and a couple of evil cities will as well.
As for pvp, pve focused games usually have a few pvp servers too. Nothing new.
dorotea said:Everyone and her sister has been jumping on the so-called battle royale bandwagon. Maybe it won't be traditional pvp at all but everyone will get dumped in and one person will win.
This is a pve game and I doubt if there will be enough interest in arenas to support a lot of them without long queues. It may make more sense to have worldwide or at least continental queues although there can be two or three or 50 skins for the arena with the appearance chosen randomly each time.
Arenas aren't something new. If they do the arenas like they did them in EQ, and we have no reason to believe that they won't, there will be no queues. There are no instances in Pantheon. In EQ, you just walked within the gates of the arenas and you were flagged for PvP while you were in there. Anyone could walk in there at any time. No queues. No waiting. No lines.
It doesn't really have to do with "interest". They've already said that there will probably be limited PvP on the PvE servers, and would, most likely, be consented duels and/or arenas.
I remember when I played Lineage2 there was 2 smaller area's and then one much bigger arena, outside of 3 different towns. Once you stepped inside the designated area you were essentially flagged for PvP and anyone in there could attack anyone else. If you "Killed" someone you wouldn't flag red there was no PK inside the designated area. Even though the entire world was open and you could attack someone anywhere except for inside most towns and cities they still had a few designated area's that would allow for a more friendly style of PvP.
I remember the one and only time I ever beat my friend in 1v1 was in the arena outside of Aden. I only beat him because he had never gone against a TH before. He smashed me every time after that haha.
I'd love to see arenas like in EQ. I'm not a pvper at all, but it was fun sometimes to screw around against another player (as well as the rare duel I would participate in). When they mention 'gladiator arenas', I don't know, maybe they ARE mentioning them with each cities architecture in mind. I'd find it hard to believe they would build a roman-type coliseum (I think this would be a stereotypical 'gladiator' type setting) in primitive Skargol, or the tree city of halflings for example.
Also I liked the big zone - 'The Arena' what was it off of, Lake Rathetear? On my server (Rodcet Nife) the city arenas were pretty empty - granted the only ones I can remember spending any time in was Cabilis and Qeynos. But in The Arena zone, all races could enter and guilds would have events there sometimes for fun, it was alwyas fun going in there and mixing it up. Just remember to bind haha.
Kalok said:So, for the sake of argument, let's say that they are going to do PvP arenas on PvE servers as they have mentioned in a couple of the streams. They specificially mentioned "gladiator arenas". My thought isn't that every city/town have a "gladiator arena", sort of like they had in EQ, but have an arena themed to the city/toown. For instance, Thronefast may have a gladiator arena because it would match the architecrture, but the Elven city may have one that is more suited, appearance-wise, to the architecture of the area rather than a "gladiator arena" appearance.
Thoughts?
What if, there were seperate entrances for non-aligned races just to the arena areas? like, the underground areas for evils in good-aligned cities? have the same but seperate tunnels for goods in evil aligned cities- but just to the PvP arena area. Thought just came to me, this may also become an accidental trading hub or "EC tunnel" with a built in way to solve trade disputes - ho ho- "5gold for a bone chip?! that's highway robbery! *glass breaks*".....
Would give a whole new meaning to "Caveat Emptor" or "trade at your own risk" and could possibly allow any outside like-minded group of RP'ing zealots to go in and fanatically clean the place out for the sake of homogenization or purity, whatever their alignment might be.
((If they do the arenas like they did them in EQ, and we have no reason to believe that they won't, there will be no queues. There are no instances in Pantheon. In EQ, you just walked within the gates of the arenas and you were flagged for PvP while you were in there. Anyone could walk in there at any time. No queues. No waiting. No lines.))
Thank you for the clarification. I admit I was thinking entirely of the more ubiquitous instanced arenas we see these days.
Saying that Pantheon will have no instances is possibly incorrect. I would opine that it is *probably* incorrect. No I am not thinking of shards as instances, though technically I would call them such.
But all we know is that Pantheon will be heavily non-instanced, for which I am happy. To my knowledge VR has never ruled out having a limited number of instances when it makes sense to do so. Possibilities discussed in the forums include instances used for story telling (this isn't FFXIV thank all Gods but there will be quests and some of them can be used to tell stories, maybe giving racial backstories, even) or instances used to avoid certain bottlenecks being monopolized by large or aggressive guilds. Since pvp is clearly a side-feature not core to VR's view of Pantheon it is not totally inconceivable that they will use instances to enable those so inclined to indulge.
I think you are very probably right that if there are arenas they will be non-instanced but there is a large difference between probably right and definitely right.
dorotea said:((If they do the arenas like they did them in EQ, and we have no reason to believe that they won't, there will be no queues. There are no instances in Pantheon. In EQ, you just walked within the gates of the arenas and you were flagged for PvP while you were in there. Anyone could walk in there at any time. No queues. No waiting. No lines.))
Thank you for the clarification. I admit I was thinking entirely of the more ubiquitous instanced arenas we see these days.
Saying that Pantheon will have no instances is possibly incorrect. I would opine that it is *probably* incorrect. No I am not thinking of shards as instances, though technically I would call them such.
But all we know is that Pantheon will be heavily non-instanced, for which I am happy. To my knowledge VR has never ruled out having a limited number of instances when it makes sense to do so. Possibilities discussed in the forums include instances used for story telling (this isn't FFXIV thank all Gods but there will be quests and some of them can be used to tell stories, maybe giving racial backstories, even) or instances used to avoid certain bottlenecks being monopolized by large or aggressive guilds. Since pvp is clearly a side-feature not core to VR's view of Pantheon it is not totally inconceivable that they will use instances to enable those so inclined to indulge.
I think you are very probably right that if there are arenas they will be non-instanced but there is a large difference between probably right and definitely right.
Yeah. No. According to, literally, every stream, video, and srticle that they have released, there are going to be no instanced zones, dungeons, or encounterrs. They don't even want instanced housing.
Yep. Absolutely NO instances whatsoever.
This is the problem with pvp people. Always wanting to force it on everyone. If you want pvp join a pvp server. Very simple. You can always make an Avatar on both servers so you can play whichever style you want when you want. If you are afraid you cannot level high enough on a pvp server to get your way with others then you are not a good fit for pvp. Just leave the pve servers alone and we will leave the pvp servers alone. Done
No instances under any circumstances for any reason? Okay I guess their position has hardened over the last 6 months or a year from when they weren't ruling out limited use of instances. But that isn't the topic of this thread other than insomuch as it rules out any instances for pvp.
Isaya I agree with the concept but not its application to this thread.
An arena that people can enter to fight but that has nothing any pve player would want is not forcing anything on us.
Far better than taking the Roman approach and having arenas where slaves fight lions. Not fair to the slaves. Not fair to the lions.
Isaya said:This is the problem with pvp people. Always wanting to force it on everyone. If you want pvp join a pvp server. Very simple. You can always make an Avatar on both servers so you can play whichever style you want when you want. If you are afraid you cannot level high enough on a pvp server to get your way with others then you are not a good fit for pvp. Just leave the pve servers alone and we will leave the pvp servers alone. Done
Nobody is trying to force anything on anyone. There is noting requiring you to enter an arena or partake in duels. In addition, they have already talked about adding them to PvE servers. So, yeah. MY point was that if they are going to include them that htey should make them fit in with their surrpoundings.
Jeeze dude. Take that Xanax.
EDIT: And, for the record, Isaya.... I'm not a PvPer. Arenas *ARE* kinda fun from time to time.
There is no reason to NOT have /duel and an Arena like in EQ on PvE servers. Its something to do in the down time. I remember a GM event in the Arena in EQ when I first started playing, on a PvE server, and it was great to watch. That doesn't mean I want to play on a PvP server.
In world of warcraft you have Gurubashi Arena, there is no reason to visit this place besides a chance at a trinket and as soon as you step in you can be killed by anyone.
I think this would work well in cities, if you don't want to partake, simply stay away.
But aside from free for all, i'd love instanced arenas of 1v1, 2v2, 3v3.
I would also like player vs NPC arenas and NPC vs NPC arenas where you can watch and make bets.
Grimseethe said:In world of warcraft you have Gurubashi Arena, there is no reason to visit this place besides a chance at a trinket and as soon as you step in you can be killed by anyone.
I think this would work well in cities, if you don't want to partake, simply stay away.
But aside from free for all, i'd love instanced arenas of 1v1, 2v2, 3v3.
I would also like player vs NPC arenas and NPC vs NPC arenas where you can watch and make bets.
I can't get behind instanced Arenas. I am very anti-instance. However, I can get behind PvNPC fights in Arenas. That would be cool.
Back in EQ, I used to like to watch guild events that would take place in the Arenas when I was lower-level. It wwas cool watching the hiigher-level guys beat on each other for their guild's amusement.
Kalok said:Grimseethe said:In world of warcraft you have Gurubashi Arena, there is no reason to visit this place besides a chance at a trinket and as soon as you step in you can be killed by anyone.
I think this would work well in cities, if you don't want to partake, simply stay away.
But aside from free for all, i'd love instanced arenas of 1v1, 2v2, 3v3.
I would also like player vs NPC arenas and NPC vs NPC arenas where you can watch and make bets.I can't get behind instanced Arenas. I am very anti-instance. However, I can get behind PvNPC fights in Arenas. That would be cool.
Back in EQ, I used to like to watch guild events that would take place in the Arenas when I was lower-level. It wwas cool watching the hiigher-level guys beat on each other for their guild's amusement.
Grimseethe said:Kalok said:Grimseethe said:In world of warcraft you have Gurubashi Arena, there is no reason to visit this place besides a chance at a trinket and as soon as you step in you can be killed by anyone.
I think this would work well in cities, if you don't want to partake, simply stay away.
But aside from free for all, i'd love instanced arenas of 1v1, 2v2, 3v3.
I would also like player vs NPC arenas and NPC vs NPC arenas where you can watch and make bets.I can't get behind instanced Arenas. I am very anti-instance. However, I can get behind PvNPC fights in Arenas. That would be cool.
Back in EQ, I used to like to watch guild events that would take place in the Arenas when I was lower-level. It wwas cool watching the hiigher-level guys beat on each other for their guild's amusement.
I feel instanced is needed sometimes so nothing can interfere, in my opion there is no greater test of pvp skill than a 1v1 fight, with 2v2 a close second.
The whole point of PvP arenas are so that things can interfere. You don't have 1v1 and 2v2 fights in PvP. It's FFA.
I like the idea of themed PvP arenas, it makes sense (in terms of lore and race identity) that cities wouldn't have the exact same structures. I'm even okay with certain races not having an arena at all if it doesn't fit their lore or identity, like Halflings or maybe even Elves. Would force players to migrate to the few cities with actual arenas. But, at the very least, different themes is certainly the way to go to keep it interesting.
I also think arenas like that should be non-instanced. The pros outweigh the cons. Having the community being able to watch is great, and anything that keeps it more open for people to have fun together helps the community feel more intertwined, thus keeping it alive for longer. People are generally good about respecting etiquette when it comes to duels/PvP fights on PvE servers.
kreed99 said: Here is what i would like to see. Maybe 1 arena per continent. Theme’d and lockable/purchaseable incase a guild wants a private event. I liked how EQ1 had these in every city but they were under utilized. And i also disliked when high level trolls sat and waited for guilds to play. Another line of thought is that in a PVE world PVP does not lose exp. so its all just for fun.
I don't know how more modern MMO arenas are, but in EQ, you didn't lose exp when you died in an arena or consented duel.
The problem with a lockable arena is that it could be used to block others from using it. One person could go in there and lock everyone out of it.
It might be interesting to have some arenas made for team fights instead of FFA. I almost never used the PvP arenas because I don't find FFA appealing. Team-based PvP is just more my cup of tea.
The way to do it without instances could involve letting the player talk to an NPC and choose what side they want to join before getting flagged for PvP. Sure, people could still interfere with ongoing fights, but teamwork is a lot easier when you can't accidentally hit friendlies with hostile area effects. Not to mention that ally-only spells actually function in such an environment.
Kalok said:\Grimseethe said:Kalok said:Grimseethe said:In world of warcraft you have Gurubashi Arena, there is no reason to visit this place besides a chance at a trinket and as soon as you step in you can be killed by anyone.
I think this would work well in cities, if you don't want to partake, simply stay away.
But aside from free for all, i'd love instanced arenas of 1v1, 2v2, 3v3.
I would also like player vs NPC arenas and NPC vs NPC arenas where you can watch and make bets.I can't get behind instanced Arenas. I am very anti-instance. However, I can get behind PvNPC fights in Arenas. That would be cool.
Back in EQ, I used to like to watch guild events that would take place in the Arenas when I was lower-level. It wwas cool watching the hiigher-level guys beat on each other for their guild's amusement.
I feel instanced is needed sometimes so nothing can interfere, in my opion there is no greater test of pvp skill than a 1v1 fight, with 2v2 a close second.The whole point of PvP arenas are so that things can interfere. You don't have 1v1 and 2v2 fights in PvP. It's FFA.
\if other people can just zerg you and interfere, where is the skill? Instanced arenas is the very essense of pvp, nothing but your skill to determine the winner.
Grimseethe said:\if other people can just zerg you and interfere, where is the skill? Instanced arenas is the very essense of pvp, nothing but your skill to determine the winner.
Instanced arenas aren't "the essence" of it, it's just the easiest and most convenient way to do it.
It's perfectly possible to create a system where you can't just challenge an individual to a duel, but an entire group to a team battle. That way, noone could interfere and you would still not be pulled into your own pocket dimension that's not really part of the overall world (which is something the devs here would like to avoid where possible).
Another possibility would be an arena where you can sign up to fight 1v1, 2v2 or 4v4 and it'd place you in a queue. Each fight would go on until either side is defeated and the winner is announced with a zone-wide shout (or a timer runs out, which results in a draw), after which the next queued fight would begin. People could place bets on upcoming fights in the queue and spectate the ongoing fights. A downside of this is that it might take a while before it's your turn to fight if a lot of people are queued, but that's a small sacrifice to make for how much more immersive and engaging a system like this is compared to instanced arenas. Gladiators would be able to build a real reputation on their server this way, as opposed to just some arbitrary arena score to buy gear with.