Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

PvP Arenas

    • 233 posts
    January 2, 2019 6:28 AM PST

    Kaeldorn said:

    Grimseethe said:

    \if other people can just zerg you and interfere, where is the skill? Instanced arenas is the very essense of pvp, nothing but your skill to determine the winner.

    Instanced arenas aren't "the essence" of it, it's just the easiest and most convenient way to do it.

    It's perfectly possible to create a system where you can't just challenge an individual to a duel, but an entire group to a team battle. That way, noone could interfere and you would still not be pulled into your own pocket dimension that's not really part of the overall world (which is something the devs here would like to avoid where possible).

    Another possibility would be an arena where you can sign up to fight 1v1, 2v2 or 4v4 and it'd place you in a queue. Each fight would go on until either side is defeated and the winner is announced with a zone-wide shout (or a timer runs out, which results in a draw), after which the next queued fight would begin. People could place bets on upcoming fights in the queue and spectate the ongoing fights. A downside of this is that it might take a while before it's your turn to fight if a lot of people are queued, but that's a small sacrifice to make for how much more immersive and engaging a system like this is compared to instanced arenas. Gladiators would be able to build a real reputation on their server this way, as opposed to just some arbitrary arena score to buy gear with.

    I'm just using the word "instanced" to mean isolated, i dont actually want to be ported off somewhere once a group is found.
    I just prefer pvp with just me and my opponent, so their is no excuse to who won the battle.

    • 945 posts
    January 2, 2019 6:45 AM PST

    ********* said:

    \if other people can just zerg you and interfere, where is the skill? Instanced arenas is the very essense of pvp, nothing but your skill to determine the winner.

    If you are looking for a fair 1v1, skill based "pvp" fight, this is not the game for you.  This sounds like a "duel" which will definitely be in the game.  

    The pvp servers in this game will be ruthless; players will use NPCs, terrain visibility and even wait in hiding while a person fights an NPC to get low and THEN attackk them.  The days of fair or honorable "1v1" pvp to see who has the better gear/skill/luck are over.  There are literally some pvp guilds that are stating in their MotD that they will corpse camp any players not in their guild until that players quit or join them... if capable.

    In 6-7 years from now though when they open up server transfers from blue to red, I'm hoping some max geared blue guild transfers to a red server and just wipes out guilds like that (because pvp servers will progress end game content MUCH more slowly in a non-instanced game).

    To comment on the O.P. - I'm hoping for a few arena areas and I like the idea of having different aesthetics depending upon the region.  Perhaps having seperate PvP arenas outside of the cities would be an easy way to allow KoS races to travel to different areas and participate.  Then within the cities you could have the gladitorial (non-pvp) areans where players can speak to a guard within the arena to spawn a monster(s) depending on the number of players in the arena available every X minutes for different level ranges.  i.e.  every 20mins the level range of monsters summoned changes (if someone is lvl 20 and accidentally summons the lvl 50 monsters, that monster is in the arena until someoen can defeat it... or if there were 8 people lvl 20 that triggered it at the wrong time, there would be 8 level 50 monsters or a single very difficult dungeon/boss-like difficulty encounter... if the players can't defeat the monster within a given time, the guards (try) to defeat the monster... and if the guards die, no more arena fights for a specified time... since the coordinators are dead.) 

    • 127 posts
    January 2, 2019 7:28 AM PST

    Grimseethe said:
    I'm just using the word "instanced" to mean isolated, i dont actually want to be ported off somewhere once a group is found.
    I just prefer pvp with just me and my opponent, so their is no excuse to who won the battle.

    Alright, then I understand your point of view.

    Although instanced in a literal sense implies there can be multiple applications of the same template are(n)a, so it was confusing to me.

    Darch said:

    The pvp servers in this game will be ruthless; players will use NPCs, terrain visibility and even wait in hiding while a person fights an NPC to get low and THEN attackk them.  The days of fair or honorable "1v1" pvp to see who has the better gear/skill/luck are over.  There are literally some pvp guilds that are stating in their MotD that they will corpse camp any players not in their guild until that players quit or join them... if capable.

    Hopefully they will consider making faction based PvP servers even though FFA is currently the only type that's planned. I had a lot of fun playing on Sullon Zek in EQ, even as part of the faction that was considered to be the underdog where I constantly had to watch my back. Having enforced alliances to fall back on made it so that no guild could ever dominate the server with "join or die" threats like you describe.

    Ideally, I'd like to see a faction locked RP/PvP server. Since those would naturally attract players who come up with guild ideas that abide by a self-imposed code of conduct. Folks RP'ing as good guys in particular would try to remain honorable and generally won't employ corpse camping 'tactics'.

    • 200 posts
    January 2, 2019 7:37 AM PST
    I never joined a pvp server in EQ, and definitely didn’t have a pvp mindset, but I had great fun with guildies in the Arena. I’d really enjoy non instanced arenas like that again. I do agree it would be fun to be able to play as a team instead of ffa, having different options would be great.
    • 752 posts
    January 2, 2019 2:06 PM PST
    @Kalok

    I see your point on purchasing an arena timeslot and locking it out. If they follow the no exp loss rule with a duel or in an arena then thats fine. The other issues i had were negligible. Now PVP servers thats another world and i wont touch that, but i sometimes play around with friends and test stuff out.

    I would like to see some BOTB tourneys tho. Maybe a year in?
    • 1281 posts
    January 2, 2019 2:12 PM PST

    Grimseethe said:

    Kalok said:

    Grimseethe said:

    Kalok said:

    Grimseethe said:

    In world of warcraft you have Gurubashi Arena, there is no reason to visit this place besides a chance at a trinket and as soon as you step in you can be killed by anyone.
    I think this would work well in cities, if you don't want to partake, simply stay away.
    But aside from free for all, i'd love instanced arenas of 1v1, 2v2, 3v3.

    I would also like player vs NPC arenas and NPC vs NPC arenas where you can watch and make bets.

    I can't get behind instanced Arenas.  I am very anti-instance.  However, I can get behind PvNPC fights in Arenas.  That would be cool.

    Back in EQ, I used to like to watch guild events that would take place in the Arenas when I was lower-level.  It wwas cool watching the hiigher-level guys beat on each other for their guild's amusement.



    I feel instanced is needed sometimes so nothing can interfere, in my opion there is no greater test of pvp skill than a 1v1 fight, with 2v2 a close second.

    The whole point of PvP arenas are so that things can interfere.  You don't have 1v1 and 2v2 fights in PvP.  It's FFA.

    \

     

    \if other people can just zerg you and interfere, where is the skill? Instanced arenas is the very essense of pvp, nothing but your skill to determine the winner.

     

    Yeah.  That's called a consented duel.  Then only you and your opponent can fight.  It has nothing to do with an arena.


    This post was edited by Kalok at January 2, 2019 2:12 PM PST
    • 233 posts
    January 3, 2019 7:06 AM PST

    Kalok said:

    Grimseethe said:

    Kalok said:

    Grimseethe said:

    Kalok said:

    Grimseethe said:

    In world of warcraft you have Gurubashi Arena, there is no reason to visit this place besides a chance at a trinket and as soon as you step in you can be killed by anyone.
    I think this would work well in cities, if you don't want to partake, simply stay away.
    But aside from free for all, i'd love instanced arenas of 1v1, 2v2, 3v3.

    I would also like player vs NPC arenas and NPC vs NPC arenas where you can watch and make bets.

    I can't get behind instanced Arenas.  I am very anti-instance.  However, I can get behind PvNPC fights in Arenas.  That would be cool.

    Back in EQ, I used to like to watch guild events that would take place in the Arenas when I was lower-level.  It wwas cool watching the hiigher-level guys beat on each other for their guild's amusement.



    I feel instanced is needed sometimes so nothing can interfere, in my opion there is no greater test of pvp skill than a 1v1 fight, with 2v2 a close second.

    The whole point of PvP arenas are so that things can interfere.  You don't have 1v1 and 2v2 fights in PvP.  It's FFA.

    \

     

    \if other people can just zerg you and interfere, where is the skill? Instanced arenas is the very essense of pvp, nothing but your skill to determine the winner.

     

    Yeah.  That's called a consented duel.  Then only you and your opponent can fight.  It has nothing to do with an arena.



    Arenas have always been small scale, they're not battle royales, or open world pvp.
    Usually inside an arena literally, where players partake in 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 etc.
    It doesnt need to be instanced but even just so no one can jump in and troll the fight.
    Pvp should come in many forms and no one could complain if this version of arena fighting was one of those forms.

    • 1281 posts
    January 3, 2019 7:37 AM PST

    Grimseethe said:

    Kalok said:

    Grimseethe said:

    Kalok said:

    Grimseethe said:

    Kalok said:

    Grimseethe said:

    In world of warcraft you have Gurubashi Arena, there is no reason to visit this place besides a chance at a trinket and as soon as you step in you can be killed by anyone.
    I think this would work well in cities, if you don't want to partake, simply stay away.
    But aside from free for all, i'd love instanced arenas of 1v1, 2v2, 3v3.

    I would also like player vs NPC arenas and NPC vs NPC arenas where you can watch and make bets.

    I can't get behind instanced Arenas.  I am very anti-instance.  However, I can get behind PvNPC fights in Arenas.  That would be cool.

    Back in EQ, I used to like to watch guild events that would take place in the Arenas when I was lower-level.  It wwas cool watching the hiigher-level guys beat on each other for their guild's amusement.



    I feel instanced is needed sometimes so nothing can interfere, in my opion there is no greater test of pvp skill than a 1v1 fight, with 2v2 a close second.

    The whole point of PvP arenas are so that things can interfere.  You don't have 1v1 and 2v2 fights in PvP.  It's FFA.

    \

     

    \if other people can just zerg you and interfere, where is the skill? Instanced arenas is the very essense of pvp, nothing but your skill to determine the winner.

     

    Yeah.  That's called a consented duel.  Then only you and your opponent can fight.  It has nothing to do with an arena.



    Arenas have always been small scale, they're not battle royales, or open world pvp.
    Usually inside an arena literally, where players partake in 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 etc.
    It doesnt need to be instanced but even just so no one can jump in and troll the fight.
    Pvp should come in many forms and no one could complain if this version of arena fighting was one of those forms.

    Oh baloney.  I've seen entire guilds or multiple guilds in arenas having fun doing "Battle Royales".

    • 370 posts
    January 3, 2019 8:23 AM PST

     

    Grimseethe said:

     

    Arenas have always been small scale, they're not battle royales, or open world pvp.
    Usually inside an arena literally, where players partake in 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 etc.
    It doesnt need to be instanced but even just so no one can jump in and troll the fight.
    Pvp should come in many forms and no one could complain if this version of arena fighting was one of those forms.

    So then the GM events in EQ at the Arena with 30 or 40 people in a massive battle royale didn't happen in 2000? Huh...

     

     


    This post was edited by EppE at January 3, 2019 8:23 AM PST
    • 233 posts
    January 4, 2019 12:15 AM PST

    Kalok said:

    Grimseethe said:

    Kalok said:

    Grimseethe said:

    Kalok said:

    Grimseethe said:

    Kalok said:

    Grimseethe said:

    In world of warcraft you have Gurubashi Arena, there is no reason to visit this place besides a chance at a trinket and as soon as you step in you can be killed by anyone.
    I think this would work well in cities, if you don't want to partake, simply stay away.
    But aside from free for all, i'd love instanced arenas of 1v1, 2v2, 3v3.

    I would also like player vs NPC arenas and NPC vs NPC arenas where you can watch and make bets.

    I can't get behind instanced Arenas.  I am very anti-instance.  However, I can get behind PvNPC fights in Arenas.  That would be cool.

    Back in EQ, I used to like to watch guild events that would take place in the Arenas when I was lower-level.  It wwas cool watching the hiigher-level guys beat on each other for their guild's amusement.



    I feel instanced is needed sometimes so nothing can interfere, in my opion there is no greater test of pvp skill than a 1v1 fight, with 2v2 a close second.

    The whole point of PvP arenas are so that things can interfere.  You don't have 1v1 and 2v2 fights in PvP.  It's FFA.

    \

     

    \if other people can just zerg you and interfere, where is the skill? Instanced arenas is the very essense of pvp, nothing but your skill to determine the winner.

     

    Yeah.  That's called a consented duel.  Then only you and your opponent can fight.  It has nothing to do with an arena.



    Arenas have always been small scale, they're not battle royales, or open world pvp.
    Usually inside an arena literally, where players partake in 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 etc.
    It doesnt need to be instanced but even just so no one can jump in and troll the fight.
    Pvp should come in many forms and no one could complain if this version of arena fighting was one of those forms.

    Oh baloney.  I've seen entire guilds or multiple guilds in arenas having fun doing "Battle Royales".

     

    Clearly i'm not talking about battle royales, there is no skill involved in zerging people>

    This discussion has side tracked so much.
    I'm not wrong, you're not wrong, we are just not understanding each other at all.

    • 233 posts
    January 4, 2019 12:17 AM PST

    EppE said:

     

    Grimseethe said:

     

    Arenas have always been small scale, they're not battle royales, or open world pvp.
    Usually inside an arena literally, where players partake in 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 etc.
    It doesnt need to be instanced but even just so no one can jump in and troll the fight.
    Pvp should come in many forms and no one could complain if this version of arena fighting was one of those forms.

    So then the GM events in EQ at the Arena with 30 or 40 people in a massive battle royale didn't happen in 2000? Huh...

     

     



    30-40 people isnt an arena its a battle royale.
    Arenas are small scale.

    • 2 posts
    January 5, 2019 3:58 PM PST

    I would just keep it simple and have a duel anywhere in public if people wanted to PvP, and something else i enjoyed in another MMO was guild v guild battle for prizes and ranking, make it a 1hour event everynight that your guild may sign up for if they wish.

    • 127 posts
    January 5, 2019 7:52 PM PST

    Grimseethe said:


    30-40 people isnt an arena its a battle royale.
    Arenas are small scale.

    WoW arenas are small scale because it's instanced content for small groups. The kind of PvP arenas that are being talked about in this topic are just zones in the open world. And in their least restricted form as they were in EQ, they're just FFA PvP zones that would accomodate battle royale style fighting.

    FFA PvP zones are not my preferred form of PvP either, but the statement that arenas can't be FFA PvP zones by definition is false.

    • 752 posts
    January 5, 2019 9:18 PM PST
    To me an “arena” battle is like every game out there right now. You instance something and you pvp in small teams and when its done you go on your merry way. I dont want to see that style. I can wrap my head around having guild pvp in a pve server as that would basically be one large scale duel that both guilds consent to. As long as pvp in a pve server is no exp loss them ffa pvp should be just fine. The only issue might be having too large of scale arena and somebody camping you and sniping you so you cant drag the corpse out and get your stuff. I would make the design small enough that you can drag from the center from out of bounds so to speak. Especially if they are going to have one in every city like EQ1 style. I dont think we need a large scale arena, but maybe a special stadium for big events? But the actual pvp area would be somewhat small.
    • 1428 posts
    January 12, 2019 10:09 AM PST

    i don't think a battle royale would work in pantheon.  it'll be extremely taxing to balance as you'd probably see it boil down to nothing be rogues left.  it'd be exciting to adapt and balance it into a team orientated system.  think of it as would you rather listen to 2 guitarist go at it or 2 full bands going at it?

    • 51 posts
    January 13, 2019 2:13 PM PST

    I like the idea of having themed arenas.  I also think that this is something that could be built into way more than has been used in the past.

    Personally I am not a big fan of PvP but the arenas could be used for so much more than just duels.  VoT had a discussion on this....I don't know how long ago and quite a few ideas were talked about: having monthly duels and leaderboards to turning it into a full on Gladiator games to where you could run tournaments whether it be PvP or PvE (think waves of enemies either singles, doubles or groups.)

    Just some thoughts. It would give folks some added things to do other than adventure and craft :)

     

    • 752 posts
    January 16, 2019 5:55 PM PST

    I will look for the VOT broadcast on this and will give feedback. Im not really a pvp fan, but if its done in an pve arena without much consequense thats fine. Just for fun.

     

     

    VOT #79 i wont go into pvp systems or mechanics but i feel like eq1 or 2 basic arena and other systems would be a good fit for pantheon. If they could somehow lock certain groups or guilds into pvp status in a duel/war status i think that could be fun.

     

     

    For me i would like to see this. Guild 1 and Guild 2 have a war. They /guildwar each other. For the next 7 days its a free for all and once the totals are tallied of which guild killed how many of the other guild they win.

     

     

    And maybe there is a /groupduel so you can do something similar for an hour. So /groupduel is an hour that you duel. And once that geoup is set in a /groupduel they can’t disband until the hour is up. So camp or fight.


    This post was edited by kreed99 at January 16, 2019 6:29 PM PST
    • 67 posts
    January 21, 2019 6:11 PM PST

    They had an arena zone in EQ1 that you could go in and be flagged for PVP even on a PVE server to have tournaments and fun. They also did cross server PVP tournaments which were alot of fun. If they follow that, it will be pretty much how you imagine.