To make this easy... let's assume camps are respected in Pantheon... I have 2 basic questions.
1) You're in a dungeon, you want to go to a high profile camp (think frenzied in eq1). You call a camp check and a group is already there.
You set up in a different area and periodically venture over to see how they are doing.
You eventually see them, or notice that they wiped... how long do you wait before you claim that camp as yours. 10 mins? 30 mins? How long do you allow them to take to get back. Are you allowed to pull their mobs and potentially their named in the mean time??
2) Subsequently. You zone in and see another group at the entrance buffing. During a camp check they call the camp you want to head to. Do you allow them to take the camp that they havent even gotten to yet... or do you treat it as first come first serve??
It has been so long since I've played a game where camps are respected I'm not at all sure.
My initial reaction is that if a camp is empty I can take it even if a group had been there - as long as it is empty when I arrive. If they come back and politely ask me to leave I definitely will - if they come back and are rude about my being at an open camp I may not be so fast to leave. I will always return courtesy for courtesy.
My other initial reaction is that no one has a camp until they have the camp. If another group announces that they *want* a camp that doesn't mean it is their camp yet - if I also *want* it and get there first, well next time they may move faster. If they need to buff and I don't that is their misfortune - like a racer pulling in to refuel and losing the race to someone else that has more gas or a better engine that doesn't need to refuel.
I can easily be persuaded that I am wrong - and right or wrong the community is likely to develop standards and in a social game with servers that are small enough that many people know eachother - following server norms is wiser than being technically correct.
The answers are easy.
1 you wait until they have ample time toreturn.
you can also send a tell to a member of the group and ask thier permission to take mobs until they return and if they are going to return.
2 If the group is buffing for the trek to the camp and they were there first it should remain thier camp. Just because you are a few levels higher and may be able to get there faster this still does not give you the right to take the camp they are heading for.
Isaya said:The answers are easy.
1 you wait until they have ample time toreturn.
you can also send a tell to a member of the group and ask thier permission to take mobs until they return and if they are going to return.
2 If the group is buffing for the trek to the camp and they were there first it should remain thier camp. Just because you are a few levels higher and may be able to get there faster this still does not give you the right to take the camp they are heading for.
See, but are they that easy? So what is ample time to you. Let's say when they wiped their named was up... most groups dont wsnt you killing that... so when you ask they say no. 30 mins later it's still up and empty...
You seem like a super respectful player when it comes to camps... so I'm curious how long you would wait until you "had enough".
Also the second question was more so... your group zones in, calls a camp check and the group that's at the entrance next to you calls the premier camp your group wants. Is it fair to call a camp you havent even proven you can get to yet?
dorotea said:It has been so long since I've played a game where camps are respected I'm not at all sure.
My initial reaction is that if a camp is empty I can take it even if a group had been there - as long as it is empty when I arrive. If they come back and politely ask me to leave I definitely will - if they come back and are rude about my being at an open camp I may not be so fast to leave. I will always return courtesy for courtesy.
My other initial reaction is that no one has a camp until they have the camp. If another group announces that they *want* a camp that doesn't mean it is their camp yet - if I also *want* it and get there first, well next time they may move faster. If they need to buff and I don't that is their misfortune - like a racer pulling in to refuel and losing the race to someone else that has more gas or a better engine that doesn't need to refuel.
I can easily be persuaded that I am wrong - and right or wrong the community is likely to develop standards and in a social game with servers that are small enough that many people know eachother - following server norms is wiser than being technically correct.
I feel a similar way. On the recent progression servers things were very cutthroat. If you wiped I would head into your camp and depending on how you reacted when you came back would determine if I left or stayed and competed. Most people immediately turn to rudeness when they think someone is "taking" what they think is theirs. As opposed to just explaining what happened.
How about the AI is set in such a way that either the enemy mob moves away after the fight? Or becomes unattackable for a certain amount of time? Trashmobs wouldn't need a long timer, but a bossfight could have the offtime of engaging being set into the script as a failcondition for example. If by that time the group that has camped it first hasn't returned it's all up for grabs for the next party. If somehow they manage to revive on the spot or feign death, it remains theirs.
Just a thought.
I'd send a message to one or more of the members of the group to see what happened. If they wiped then to me the camp is fair game to take, on the off-chance they were trained I'd give them some time to make it back or even offer to rez their healer.
As for the zone-in, it's not theirs until they have a presence at the camp so its fair game to whomever gets there first.
Aayden said: That leaves me with.. if you die at your camp does that leave you the right to reserve that spot? In terms of combat you lost, and you've lost control of the camp considering you're naked and now need a corpse run. Then the camp should be up for grabs. Conversely, if you have to run and make it out alive or with enough group members to make it back to the camp. That circumstance may allow you to keep the camp reserved. As for calling a camp before you're there, to me, is like saying hey if X loot drops from the mob I'm the one that gets it. No roll, no competition, it's just mine. It doesn't work like calling shotgun for the front seat.
I agree. But many times in EQ I've experienced groups calling camps they were not at. Just wondered if anyone else dealt with the same thing
Iksar said:I'd send a message to one or more of the members of the group to see what happened. If they wiped then to me the camp is fair game to take, on the off-chance they were trained I'd give them some time to make it back or even offer to rez their healer.
I've always felt this way. Most people get very mad though when they rez and recover to find their camp occupied.
Aayden said: I've definitely been guilty of it myself and seen it. It's a competition/race to mobs at the end of the day if we utilize a camp system, if someone is gonna buy my lie that the camp is covered and I'm still at the entrance.. well then bless their heart I suppose.
Lmao, oh I agree. And in absolutely guilty of calling camps I'm not at yet. But at the end of the day if I got their and it was taken. I would back down lol
Porygon said:Aayden said: I've definitely been guilty of it myself and seen it. It's a competition/race to mobs at the end of the day if we utilize a camp system, if someone is gonna buy my lie that the camp is covered and I'm still at the entrance.. well then bless their heart I suppose.Lmao, oh I agree. And in absolutely guilty of calling camps I'm not at yet. But at the end of the day if I got their and it was taken. I would back down lol
Hahaha likewise, good relatable topic. I'm sure we will see these incidents arise shortly after camps are established after launch
Porygon said:Aayden said: I've definitely been guilty of it myself and seen it. It's a competition/race to mobs at the end of the day if we utilize a camp system, if someone is gonna buy my lie that the camp is covered and I'm still at the entrance.. well then bless their heart I suppose.Lmao, oh I agree. And in absolutely guilty of calling camps I'm not at yet. But at the end of the day if I got their and it was taken. I would back down lol
I know there were times a group I was in noticed an empty claim in a CC check and took it before those shouting "Taking camp X" could arrive only to tell them "Oh sorry didn't see the camp check, we've been here."
I'm not on the edge of over-competition or race fest of some sort, however I do not consider a camp owned until someone reaches it. That's too easy to claim camps from the zoneline, or failing your way to a specific camp and asking it to be still yours.
However, I do not consider fair sport to rush throught a group that would be making their way to a camp and simply doubling them in the process of getting there first and giving them the only choice of going elsewhere / logging off.
In the end, all I am against is bad sportsmanship or overabuse of camp ownership.
BamBam said: Think the camping ownership is quiet a bad idea, is a grp want to claim ownership I hope it's maximum for 1 spawn round of named. After that it's free for all.
I think the reason camps evolved was that it was such a group centric game. Most people needed 5 other players in order to get anything accomplished. So the idea of spending time putting s group together (which usually took a little bit) running to the dungeon (again, could take awhile) and then fighting to your spot. . Only to have another group come in and start killing, that's a really demoralizing event. You spent upwards of 1 to 2 hours just getting ready to play and then you cant.
It sucks lol.
Sato said: 1.) You can't camp a mob you are not at. 2.) You can't camp a mob you are not at. If you want to apply your own discretion that's fine, but we need a firm policy in place. If you start with a gray area then apply discretion, it will only get grayer. Players need to have the ability to say "I am here, no one else is, this is my camp now." And not be a bad guy or have to be subjected to woeful cries of the group. Also to provide another relevant example; If someone shouts for a Camp Check and sends me a tell when I answer that they want to know when I'm finished, I will say sure. But when someone else shows up and waits patiently I will have to tell the person who only sent a tell, sorry someone else showed up and is waiting, I'll let them know to send you a tell when they are done. Because to reiterate points 1 and 2: You can't camp a mob you are not at. P.S. this is only my stance on Named/PH camps. If there is say a "Ledge Group" because that is the safe spot, and they are pulling mobs in the vacinity for experience. I have no problem with another group posting up at the "Path to Ledge" and pulling the same mobs in the vacinity, because IMO you can't camp experience.
Exactly my thoughts.. "you can't camp a mob your not at" ! There needs to be a clear line and that's it, you wipe, and I'm in 5he next room I will take "the" camp and it is mine now....as a courtesy we will Rez your group and you can set up in the room we just vacated, and with a little luck maybe we will wipe and you can get THE camp back and return the Rez favor.
As for at the zone line calling a camp... yea, whatever nice try!
New question.... you call camp check and nobody responds "frenzied" (maybe they didn't see you call) you fight your way down and find somebody there... does this mean you get to boot them?
Same thing... if your there it's yours, and ONLY if your there.. call it or not.
Zorkon said:New question.... you call camp check and nobody responds "frenzied" (maybe they didn't see you call) you fight your way down and find somebody there... does this mean you get to boot them?
Same thing... if your there it's yours, and ONLY if your there.. call it or not.
Thats the same question really, if someone was there or beat you there then you'd just have to move on. You never claimed/controlled a camp by calling it out, you claimed a camp by maintaining a presence and actively clearing the area.
I would say that's one of those occasions where you can choose to shine as a friend or get a rep for being... something else.
If you wanted to prove yourself a great guy in the community you would contact them and ask if they need help setting up again or need your group to keep the spawns broken or whatever until they get back.
That's really going the extra mile, but they would love you for it.
You might want to hint that perhaps they can't hold it (maybe they lost a member) and could you take it now?
Polite but being more firm.
As far as strict 'fairplay' is concerned I think if they wipe and don't get back before you move in then they fairly 'lost' the camp, though. A bit mean to pounce so quick, but *shrug* it's up to you how nice you want to be *within whatever PNP there is*.
