I tried searching for armor, gear, and appearance but didn't find what I was looking for so please forgive me if I missed this in my searches but I did try :)
In EQ, it didn't matter if you were a cloth, light, med, or plate class, we all started the same. No armor, then cloth, then leather at 8ish, chain in early teens, finally plate around 20 I think. And that was like basic bronze plate, but at level 20 that felt like pure gold and it left a huge range to look so much better at higher levels.
Today's games you have super cool armor by level 5 and it leaves little room to be in awe over 50 levels of improvement. This came to mind because I was re-watching the last stream and thought these guys look cool in their plate gear and flaming and rune glowing swords but they are only level 12-13ish. So do you think they looked that way to show off their progress they are making or should we expcet to look that uber by level 13?
Do you all prefer to get cool armor weapons early on or do you prefer to look like noob farm hands for the first 15-20 levels?
Noob farm hand. 100%. Every good hero's journey arc starts with humble beginnings and looking totally sweet from the get-go devalues peak bad-ass.
As an aside: Brad didn't do us any favors by trotting out that Aradune "special butterfly" Mithara "War Wizard" Sacred Six avatar for the livestream. You should see how confused the people in the Wizard class forum are...
They have emphasized several times that the appearance of your gear is an important way to show your progress and power. That way when people look at you, they can pretty easily identify certain bosses that you have slain and such. For example, that's why there won't be any purely cosmetic gear. I think it's pretty safe to assume that a high lvl character will look very different than a low lvl character. They would be undermining almost all of their tenets if that was not the case. I know that Aradune's flaming sword will not be typical for a toon of that lvl - that's just his trademark item. However, I would like a dev to comment on whether or not the runed sword the Ogre was carrying would be typical for an item of that level. I'm almost certain they just wanted to show off some of the cool-looking items they designed. But it was kinda misleading and I wish they had clarified.
Shai said:As an aside: Brad didn't do us any favors by trotting out that Aradune "special butterfly" Mithara "War Wizard" Sacred Six avatar for the livestream. You should see how confused the people in the Wizard class forum are...
I just hope that since they've out the time in to code the class for Brad, that he shows up in game after launch now and then, all gandalf like, to give dire warning of an impending GM event and such. The War Wizard battles a GM ran lich on the ramparts in an epic (scripted) PvP battle while we PCs fend off waves of undead in the city streets type stuff.
Xilshale said:I just hope that since they've out the time in to code the class for Brad, that he shows up in game after launch now and then...
A touch off-topic, but they're writing themselves into the lore as War Wizards/Suns of Terminus. Warriors of godlike power in physical might and arcane discipline, one each from the Sacred Six (dwarves, elves, ogres, dark myr, archai and humans - halflings, skar, and gnomes arrived later) that Descended during the Deicide War to fight the Ravaging Lord & the Revenant, after successfully pushing back the Revenant one of them died at the Ravaging Lord's hand, the remaining five vanished after the Deicide War ended.
I'm positive you'll be seeing Aradune et al knocking around Terminus.
Bazgrim said:
They have emphasized several times that the appearance of your gear is an important way to show your progress and power. That way when people look at you, they can pretty easily identify certain bosses that you have slain and such. For example, that's why there won't be any purely cosmetic gear. I think it's pretty safe to assume that a high lvl character will look very different than a low lvl character. They would be undermining almost all of their tenets if that was not the case. I know that Aradune's flaming sword will not be typical for a toon of that lvl - that's just his trademark item. However, I would like a dev to comment on whether or not the runed sword the Ogre was carrying would be typical for an item of that level. I'm almost certain they just wanted to show off some of the cool-looking items they designed. But it was kinda misleading and I wish they had clarified.
I think this is what happened also. I'd expect gear to be less flashy at level 12.
Shai said:I'm positive you'll be seeing Aradune et al knocking around Terminus.
Me too. Looking forward to the GM events. Miss things like that.
Shai said:Xilshale said:I just hope that since they've out the time in to code the class for Brad, that he shows up in game after launch now and then...
A touch off-topic, but they're writing themselves into the lore as War Wizards/Suns of Terminus. Warriors of godlike power in physical might and arcane discipline, one each from the Sacred Six (dwarves, elves, ogres, dark myr, archai and humans - halflings, skar, and gnomes arrived later) that Descended during the Deicide War to fight the Ravaging Lord & the Revenant, after successfully pushing back the Revenant one of them died at the Ravaging Lord's hand, the remaining five vanished after the Deicide War ended.
I'm positive you'll be seeing Aradune et al knocking around Terminus.
This could be awesome sauce. /stocking up on popcorn and replacement keyboard keys.
Beefcake said:I really don't care about the appearance of my gear until max level. My gear will be constantly changing until then. Not going to try to match it up until it's pretty much done.
If the game is anything like EQ. Your gear may not be changing as much as you think. Not at first anyway. Later in the life of the game as you twink alts and such or gear is being sold on the market that might change. I don't see loot falling from the skys in tiers like in other games. You might be waring that chain chest piece you got at lvl 12 for a looooooong time. Thats my hope.
kellindil said:If the game is anything like EQ. Your gear may not be changing as much as you think. Not at first anyway. Later in the life of the game as you twink alts and such or gear is being sold on the market that might change. I don't see loot falling from the skys in tiers like in other games. You might be waring that chain chest piece you got at lvl 12 for a looooooong time. Thats my hope.
Man, I hope you're right. I'm so tired of disposable gear.
I will second the notion for not changing gear that often. I think "disposable loot" harkens to a bigger problem. People get so used to being given or getting stuff so often, that it turns the whole idea of loot into something that seems merely commonplace. It takes the special feel out of finally getting an upgrade away.
I remember my first character in EQ... He was a rogue, and over time he picked up mismatched gear... either given from friends, or looted from pickup groups. A few I bought in EC. It wasn't until I was in my mid 40's (and was part of a regular adventuring group from my guild) that I got my first significant armor upgrade. I was still wearing an AC 2 cloak I stole off a dead Runnyeye goblin that some high level monk had killed in passing. I remember jokingly making a reference that I felt like I was a little kid running around with a bath towel around my neck (I was a halfling). Which led to my groupmates inspecting me... which led to copious amounts of laughter. After the tears dried, we went and camped the Ry'Gorr fort and got me nearly a full set of Ry'Gorr chain. I was ecstatic. But I think I liked it more because I went my first 45 levels essentially mixing and matching. Scraping by.
Around level 53 or so, I bought a red dragonscale breastplate. Which if anyone actually saw, was more of a melon or salmon color than red (it also became a running joke - rogue in the pink BP, etc). But I still remember this stuff. I could also tell you how many times I changed my mainhand piercing weapon, and what their names were before level 60. Each of these changes was a noticeable upgrade for me. I couldn't begin to tell you how often I changed weapons/gear in other games. And I rarely saw significant differences...it was more of a slow ramp than a quantum jump.
Later, I made a bard, and I got to do the lambent quest (started in early 20s, if memory serves) and my friend made a paladin and did the Armor of Ro series of quests for his armor (can't remember the level, but I want to say late 20s). I wore my Ry'Gorr for some time before I upgraded. Lambent eventually gave way to Singing Steel pieces, which were easily buyable, but I didn't have a full set until my bard went up several levels. And the Armor of Ro also lasted quite a bit of time, if I remember correctly.
I like these types of quests. Having a goal like attaining a set of armor is fun for me. But I feel like having them available early or often or easily doesn't make you appreciate them as much. These acquisitions were big steps for me and my friends. I got to see substantial gains every time one of these touchstone moments was accomplished, and I definitely remember them.
But my point is this... I think we need to have less wearable loot drop, because it makes you appreciate what you do get more.
Just my two cents.
~Hiwin
Xilshale said:Shai said:As an aside: Brad didn't do us any favors by trotting out that Aradune "special butterfly" Mithara "War Wizard" Sacred Six avatar for the livestream. You should see how confused the people in the Wizard class forum are...
I just hope that since they've out the time in to code the class for Brad, that he shows up in game after launch now and then, all gandalf like, to give dire warning of an impending GM event and such. The War Wizard battles a GM ran lich on the ramparts in an epic (scripted) PvP battle while we PCs fend off waves of undead in the city streets type stuff.
The most perma-camped mob in Pantheon : Aradune the War Wizard. And the weird part is he doesnt even give xp or loot. People just want to kick his ass. Weird.
*This message was entirely in jest. Please don't apply the xp penalty to my account.*
streeg said:I tried searching for armor, gear, and appearance but didn't find what I was looking for so please forgive me if I missed this in my searches but I did try :)
In EQ, it didn't matter if you were a cloth, light, med, or plate class, we all started the same. No armor, then cloth, then leather at 8ish, chain in early teens, finally plate around 20 I think. And that was like basic bronze plate, but at level 20 that felt like pure gold and it left a huge range to look so much better at higher levels.
Today's games you have super cool armor by level 5 and it leaves little room to be in awe over 50 levels of improvement. This came to mind because I was re-watching the last stream and thought these guys look cool in their plate gear and flaming and rune glowing swords but they are only level 12-13ish. So do you think they looked that way to show off their progress they are making or should we expcet to look that uber by level 13?
Do you all prefer to get cool armor weapons early on or do you prefer to look like noob farm hands for the first 15-20 levels?
I totally understand and agree. I've made comments before about things like items with particle effects should be rare.
The game hasn't been itemized yet so I imagine a lot of what you're seeing in the game are just items that devs are equiping themselfs with, which I imagine would be cool looking. At this point in development I wouldn't be too worried about it. Also keep in mind that Brad always has a flaming weapon on his characters. It's normal.
Once alpha and beta hit, and you're looking like a god king at level 10, I would be worried.
vthorm said:I will second the notion for not changing gear that often. I think "disposable loot" harkens to a bigger problem. People get so used to being given or getting stuff so often, that it turns the whole idea of loot into something that seems merely commonplace. It takes the special feel out of finally getting an upgrade away.
I remember my first character in EQ... He was a rogue, and over time he picked up mismatched gear... either given from friends, or looted from pickup groups. A few I bought in EC. It wasn't until I was in my mid 40's (and was part of a regular adventuring group from my guild) that I got my first significant armor upgrade. I was still wearing an AC 2 cloak I stole off a dead Runnyeye goblin that some high level monk had killed in passing. I remember jokingly making a reference that I felt like I was a little kid running around with a bath towel around my neck (I was a halfling). Which led to my groupmates inspecting me... which led to copious amounts of laughter. After the tears dried, we went and camped the Ry'Gorr fort and got me nearly a full set of Ry'Gorr chain. I was ecstatic. But I think I liked it more because I went my first 45 levels essentially mixing and matching. Scraping by.
Around level 53 or so, I bought a red dragonscale breastplate. Which if anyone actually saw, was more of a melon or salmon color than red (it also became a running joke - rogue in the pink BP, etc). But I still remember this stuff. I could also tell you how many times I changed my mainhand piercing weapon, and what their names were before level 60. Each of these changes was a noticeable upgrade for me. I couldn't begin to tell you how often I changed weapons/gear in other games. And I rarely saw significant differences...it was more of a slow ramp than a quantum jump.
Later, I made a bard, and I got to do the lambent quest (started in early 20s, if memory serves) and my friend made a paladin and did the Armor of Ro series of quests for his armor (can't remember the level, but I want to say late 20s). I wore my Ry'Gorr for some time before I upgraded. Lambent eventually gave way to Singing Steel pieces, which were easily buyable, but I didn't have a full set until my bard went up several levels. And the Armor of Ro also lasted quite a bit of time, if I remember correctly.
I like these types of quests. Having a goal like attaining a set of armor is fun for me. But I feel like having them available early or often or easily doesn't make you appreciate them as much. These acquisitions were big steps for me and my friends. I got to see substantial gains every time one of these touchstone moments was accomplished, and I definitely remember them.
But my point is this... I think we need to have less wearable loot drop, because it makes you appreciate what you do get more.
Just my two cents.
~Hiwin
Great post full of examples of gear that remained relevant through an expansion or two. Lambent and the other class sets may have started off as mid-level gear, but eventually you saw them more and more on lower level characters. When gear isn't level restricted and doesn't bind on equip, it doesn't automatically get vendored or disenchanted, and it gets a chance to hang around like that.
So, I don't think you'll see gear like that at low levels at launch, but hopefully the game has longevity and items will remain relevant enough to trickle down like in Hiwin's examples.
Also, if anyone who played Vanguard live has also played the emulator, can you tell me if that starting gear from the emulators is what you originally started with?
streeg said:I tried searching for armor, gear, and appearance but didn't find what I was looking for so please forgive me if I missed this in my searches but I did try :)
In EQ, it didn't matter if you were a cloth, light, med, or plate class, we all started the same. No armor, then cloth, then leather at 8ish, chain in early teens, finally plate around 20 I think. And that was like basic bronze plate, but at level 20 that felt like pure gold and it left a huge range to look so much better at higher levels.
Today's games you have super cool armor by level 5 and it leaves little room to be in awe over 50 levels of improvement. This came to mind because I was re-watching the last stream and thought these guys look cool in their plate gear and flaming and rune glowing swords but they are only level 12-13ish. So do you think they looked that way to show off their progress they are making or should we expcet to look that uber by level 13?
Do you all prefer to get cool armor weapons early on or do you prefer to look like noob farm hands for the first 15-20 levels?
Definitely want to be a slow progression towards awesome armour! It is now funny to think how awesome it was back in the day to be slowly suiting your warrior out with basic bronze armour and yet the fact that it was a slow progression of awesome gear meant it was so exciting to get each piece. I really hope they do it in a similar way and make upgrading armour and weapons an exciting feat instead of an expected thing just because your in a slightly higher level zone.
Great post mate, lets hope we can re capture that feeling!
Hokanu said:Definitely want to be a slow progression towards awesome armour! It is now funny to think how awesome it was back in the day to be slowly suiting your warrior out with basic bronze armour and yet the fact that it was a slow progression of awesome gear meant it was so exciting to get each piece. I really hope they do it in a similar way and make upgrading armour and weapons an exciting feat instead of an expected thing just because your in a slightly higher level zone.
Great post mate, lets hope we can re capture that feeling!
I remember in my late 20's to early 30's hunting in south karana and then eventually in split paw. i would collect fine steel loot and every so often have to make the long trek to qeynos to sell and bank, then back to more grinding, until i had enough money to pay for a port to WC and but a new piece of fine steel armor at EC tunnel. it made every little gain that much more meaningful. i really hope that feeling exists in pantheon. sorry for any typos or incoherency, i'm drunk atm
I'd like my gear to look shabby starting out. If I'm a tank, I'd like my armor to look like rusty chain. Not only would I need to find better chain or ring, but I think one should have to level up to gain enough proficiency to begin wearing plate. Cloth the same way. Some common looking robes. I want that first robe to feel important, even if it's merely a single solid color. Anything to replaced that old worn out one I had before it.
Quintra said:Hokanu said:Definitely want to be a slow progression towards awesome armour! It is now funny to think how awesome it was back in the day to be slowly suiting your warrior out with basic bronze armour and yet the fact that it was a slow progression of awesome gear meant it was so exciting to get each piece. I really hope they do it in a similar way and make upgrading armour and weapons an exciting feat instead of an expected thing just because your in a slightly higher level zone.
Great post mate, lets hope we can re capture that feeling!
I remember in my late 20's to early 30's hunting in south karana and then eventually in split paw. i would collect fine steel loot and every so often have to make the long trek to qeynos to sell and bank, then back to more grinding, until i had enough money to pay for a port to WC and but a new piece of fine steel armor at EC tunnel. it made every little gain that much more meaningful. i really hope that feeling exists in pantheon. sorry for any typos or incoherency, i'm drunk atm
Exactly!
Glasses up and cheers to you my friend! :)
Hokanu said:Quintra said:Hokanu said:Definitely want to be a slow progression towards awesome armour! It is now funny to think how awesome it was back in the day to be slowly suiting your warrior out with basic bronze armour and yet the fact that it was a slow progression of awesome gear meant it was so exciting to get each piece. I really hope they do it in a similar way and make upgrading armour and weapons an exciting feat instead of an expected thing just because your in a slightly higher level zone.
Great post mate, lets hope we can re capture that feeling!
I remember in my late 20's to early 30's hunting in south karana and then eventually in split paw. i would collect fine steel loot and every so often have to make the long trek to qeynos to sell and bank, then back to more grinding, until i had enough money to pay for a port to WC and but a new piece of fine steel armor at EC tunnel. it made every little gain that much more meaningful. i really hope that feeling exists in pantheon. sorry for any typos or incoherency, i'm drunk atm
Exactly!
Glasses up and cheers to you my friend! :)
CHeERS MY FRIMND! MAY YOUR GLAGON NEBVER RUN E?mpty!
Quintra said:Hokanu said:Quintra said:Hokanu said:Definitely want to be a slow progression towards awesome armour! It is now funny to think how awesome it was back in the day to be slowly suiting your warrior out with basic bronze armour and yet the fact that it was a slow progression of awesome gear meant it was so exciting to get each piece. I really hope they do it in a similar way and make upgrading armour and weapons an exciting feat instead of an expected thing just because your in a slightly higher level zone.
Great post mate, lets hope we can re capture that feeling!
I remember in my late 20's to early 30's hunting in south karana and then eventually in split paw. i would collect fine steel loot and every so often have to make the long trek to qeynos to sell and bank, then back to more grinding, until i had enough money to pay for a port to WC and but a new piece of fine steel armor at EC tunnel. it made every little gain that much more meaningful. i really hope that feeling exists in pantheon. sorry for any typos or incoherency, i'm drunk atm
Exactly!
Glasses up and cheers to you my friend! :)
CHeERS MY FRIMND! MAY YOUR GLAGON NEBVER RUN E?mpty!
Haha!!! 31 minutes between posts and you have already spiralled down to drunken ogre speak ;)
Sorry Kils, off topic!
Hokanu said:Quintra said:Hokanu said:Quintra said:Hokanu said:Definitely want to be a slow progression towards awesome armour! It is now funny to think how awesome it was back in the day to be slowly suiting your warrior out with basic bronze armour and yet the fact that it was a slow progression of awesome gear meant it was so exciting to get each piece. I really hope they do it in a similar way and make upgrading armour and weapons an exciting feat instead of an expected thing just because your in a slightly higher level zone.
Great post mate, lets hope we can re capture that feeling!
I remember in my late 20's to early 30's hunting in south karana and then eventually in split paw. i would collect fine steel loot and every so often have to make the long trek to qeynos to sell and bank, then back to more grinding, until i had enough money to pay for a port to WC and but a new piece of fine steel armor at EC tunnel. it made every little gain that much more meaningful. i really hope that feeling exists in pantheon. sorry for any typos or incoherency, i'm drunk atm
Exactly!
Glasses up and cheers to you my friend! :)
CHeERS MY FRIMND! MAY YOUR GLAGON NEBVER RUN E?mpty!
Haha!!! 31 minutes between posts and you have already spiralled down to drunken ogre speak ;)
Sorry Kils, off topic!
Lol the first post was impressively coherent. The second one, not so much :P
In regards to the conversation at hand, I will also cast a vote for slower armor progression. I'm not looking forward to getting stuck with an ugly piece of armor that doesn't match anything but has great stats, but I think it's vital for the game that armor not be upgraded so frequently.