Martell said:Its not a jab. Zork is good stuff.
My point was , and you can NOT deny this - during the streams they have GUSHED about how great the "perception system" is.
What am I missing?
As far as I can tell, it is voiceless text popups tied to NPCs/items. Is there more to it than that?
No-one is denying it. If you go only by what you've seen on the streams, then yes, it is just a voiceless text popup. But then based on the stream you could conclude that there will be no raiding or crafting in the game since neither of those have been shown either., even though we know for a fact both will be in game
Admittedly, none of us know for sure what VR have planned because they haven't said much about it. So as far as that goes, I doubt anyone else aside from a VR employee will give you a satisfactory answer to that question.
Martell said:You guys have driven home the fact that its nothing but text popups - bit of a disappointment.
This is from that same dev diary I quoted earlier, 7.13.16:
"...we may also design more complicated scenarios where hearing and discerning audio cues may be the key to progression with certain quests. It’s one thing to peer through a dark window and read, “A faint whisper..?” It’s another thing to peer through a dark window and actually hear whispering, and what you hear in the whispering is a clue of what to do next! (With triggers like this, we will work out a way for players to replay the whispering if case they miss it the first time, or need to refer back to it later)."
So looks like they're not planning it all be restricted to text popups. Which addresses that issue a bit..
Martell said:Its not a jab. Zork is good stuff.
My point was , and you can NOT deny this - during the streams they have GUSHED about how great the "perception system" is.
What am I missing?
As far as I can tell, it is voiceless text popups tied to NPCs/items. Is there more to it than that?
As with everything else, they still have a lot of work to do I am sure. I am reserving judgement for now. One thing that has occurred to me is that even if it IS just proximity text popups - it still would feel (to me) more organic than having to click every npc to see if they have dialog etc. The voicelessness doesnt bother me. They need to allocate funds where it makes sense and avoid expensive and time consuming pitfalls so I can play as soon as possible.
Also, as others have pointed out, that was obviously set up as a small example - and if it had been a brand new player coming across the scenario, who knows how long it would have taken them to stumble across the cave that furthered the story?
I think the most important difference we've seen so far is that quests are non-linear. There is not a laundry list of steps you need to do in a particular order. It doesn't really matter when you bump into any of the NPCs or objects, it's up to you to figure out how to piece them together.
This game is barely half way into developement. Most gaming companies do not show anything like this at all trying to avoid the quick rush to judgement over an undeveloped tool or mechanic. As many stated above: This is Pre-pre Alpha. Give 'em a year or two before you go casting any real judgement of the product. At least let them finish it and stop begging for sneak peaks if you can't handle the idea that this is not the finished game, not by a long shot.
Thank You for your patience.
Klumpedge said:This game is barely half way into developement. Most gaming companies do not show anything like this at all trying to avoid the quick rush to judgement over an undeveloped tool or mechanic. As many stated above: This is Pre-pre Alpha. Give 'em a year or two before you go casting any real judgement of the product. At least let them finish it and stop begging for sneak peaks if you can't handle the idea that this is not the finished game, not by a long shot.
Thank You for your patience.
Ok, so in synopsis what you believe is "Miracles await those who have patience and do not question the Lord!"
Well, I doubt the ability of this group to deliver on anything they say.
I question their marketing-like language about features that we can't actually see.
I decry the marketing of missing mechanics found in every modern mmo, as "features". The absence of something is not a feature, get real. Even if it actually was worth something, like "Come to Springfield we DON'T burn witches here!" - still not a feature. Marketing negative space = bullshit.
We get it bro, you have some real pent-up agression going on. But invoking religious analogies just makes you look like a fool.
I know you're a VIP, so you dropped at least some cash on this endeavor. All you are doing now is making me feel sorry for you for obviously wasting your money. You are clearly going to be adversarial to anything anybody tells you, you have already made your mind up, and are now basically just trolling for responses. Congratulations - I hope it was worth it. You have succeeded in mildly raising the ire of maybe a half dozen people on the internet. You can now go to bed with a sense of accomplishment, and hopefully the hangover tomorrow won't be too harsh.
Martell said:Sorry. I have come off as quite unpleasant.
I am being petulant I guess, because I really hoped I was wrong about this system, and that I missed something.
You guys have driven home the fact that its nothing but text popups - bit of a disappointment.
HOW can you make a final judgement on something that is still being fleshed out...are you psychic? :P
Martell said:Then my original title rings true.
I don't get it.
The perception system as displayed on the streams so far seems, well, lame.
.....Popups.
News..popups happen..specially on the internet. :P Just because you don't get it..doesn't mean its wrong, bad or faulty. Maybe watch the streams again. Or don't. Not quite sure why you're doing this..other than someone isn't giving you enough attention it seems. Anyway...the streams are there for you to watch and comprehend. We can't "make" you understand...that's up to you. But if it bounces off your head, then again there's nothing that "we" can do about it..the ball is in your court. :) Have a good evening Martell.
Bazgrim said:Allow me to remind people that you can click on his profile, click on "Report" and explain to Kilsin why he deserves to be silenced. This is clearly not the game for him anyway.
I don't think silencing is the answer., at least not in the short term They haven't said anything overtly objectionable, other than having a strong opinion on something and an extremely poor way of expressing said opinion. We all have bad days, and maybe this is just one of theirs. Of course, if it continues, then by all means, bring it on.
Yes, I'm a cynic, but some days I have a soft side to me.
I can understand the point the guy is getting at, but there is certainly a more polite and respectable approach you can take to addressing your concerns.
Bazgrim said:Allow me to remind people that you can click on his profile, click on "Report" and explain to Kilsin why he deserves to be silenced. This is clearly not the game for him anyway.
Martell is free to voice his opinion, he is a VIP supporter and seems to be displeased with our progress, which is fine, as long as he follows the forum guidelines like everyone else, he is free to speak his mind but I would ask that people not respond with name calling (troll, for example, which is an offense within itself) or personal attacks, I am watching and reading everything like usual and will act if necessary but for now I hope that people can express themselves in a mature and constructive manner so others can engage them with discussion and conversation on the reasons behind those views.
Double posts and off-topic posts will be removed permanently without warning as it is becoming too much work for me to edit and copy/paste continued guideline breaches, so be warned if you post something and it disappears, that will be why ;)
Martell said:Klumpedge said:This game is barely half way into developement. Most gaming companies do not show anything like this at all trying to avoid the quick rush to judgement over an undeveloped tool or mechanic. As many stated above: This is Pre-pre Alpha. Give 'em a year or two before you go casting any real judgement of the product. At least let them finish it and stop begging for sneak peaks if you can't handle the idea that this is not the finished game, not by a long shot.
Thank You for your patience.
Ok, so in synopsis what you believe is "Miracles await those who have patience and do not question the Lord!"
Well, I doubt the ability of this group to deliver on anything they say.
I question their marketing-like language about features that we can't actually see.
I decry the marketing of missing mechanics found in every modern mmo, as "features". The absence of something is not a feature, get real. Even if it actually was worth something, like "Come to Springfield we DON'T burn witches here!" - still not a feature. Marketing negative space = bullshit.
I don't think blind followship is what people are requesting of you, you like all of us are an investor and when it comes to investing in any product you see what they have and then have some trust that they will deliver on the promises and write ups they have given. If you feel that it has been long ehough without results then you may need to reconsider your place in the project you have invested money in prehaps.
As it stands they have given bigger ideas on what this system may entail in the future like popups as it is now but more in the future such as the idea of music in areas changing to give clues that somthing may be hidden. i personally don't know if this system will work but i think it at least deserves a bit longer in development before any final choices.
I do hope it becomes more of a system that you and all of us will love, and you should let VR know when you are unhappy with things or they will never know if they are doing somthing the comunity does not like the idea of this i do agree with.
INitially when they ran by, there was a sound of a girl crying, and then they moved on and then ahd ot go back. But- going in cold, you would be running by and hear to your left, a girl crying. You may snap your head in that direciton, see the girl and then get the perception message.
Which Is kind of cool because you could role play it a bit too, by ignoring it completely
Terrible communication skills and lack of tact aside, I can see the argument being made that the perception system has not lived up to the hype that has come from development about it. However, my caveat would be - yet.
It seems REALLY early to start sounding alarm bells that the system has not lived up to the hype, so that’s why it’s a little confusing to see someone who has backed the game at a VIP level get so salty about it.
I was blown away by the stream, and I would have rather seen a fledgling example of what the perception system is starting with, then have it withheld. And as Manouk above me mentioned, the girl was crying and you could hear it from range, so if you we’re not paying attention you could miss her completely. The point that broke it a little for me was the popup. I would rather have it built so you would have to hail her or something to gain access to the text. Alexander, earlier on this page, also posted a cool example of a more streamlined way the dev’s highlighted the system working. The sky is not falling.
Perception system seems pretty nice. Adds another layer to the game world, makes it feel a bit more alive. Maybe a bridge creaking if too many people are on it could be an audio queue it's about to collapse if too many people are on it during a crossing for example. It's not right in your face, but it's subtle enough that something is going on or about to happen while keeping in context and realism. Running through a town and hearing a person crying, you'd probably look over and see what's happening where otherwise may have just ran right past otherwise.
Be interesting if perception events were dynamic to some degree. Maybe certain times different NPCs are outside or in their houses with different perception patterns depending.
Anything that adds more to atmosphere is a welcome thing and could provide a more immersive experience.
Eh, I had an idea when I first joined this forum months ago.
What if someone stumbled in a dark, empty prison and found a colorful shoe, but that's all?
What if somehow a guild of many people (and their minds) finds out a new and unspoken of quest by merely staring at pictures on the wall and random items that appeared in the world? Someone loots a strange item that's incredibly rare and asks others "what's it for?", causing a witch hunt for any possible meaning behind the item.
A quest so hidden and complicated that a ton of people are needed to even find out how its even a quest! If it is a quest then maybe the reward can be that a new item or spell is added into the world, or that it is slowly introduced into the world. Maybe no rewards were given up-front, but a new item was added into the world in secret at a slowly increasing pace first on high end raid mobs, then normal raid mobs, all the way down until its common merchant fodder.
It could be years until someone finally finds out that an old statue in a forest is a clue to finding a hidden quest. Perhaps someone finds a tiny picture of a face in a book and knows who's face it is, leading to that player giving that book to that one NPC and starting a chain of events that involves many players out of the blue.
Maybe that NPC starts one of the epic weapon quests an expansion later.
How about if someone accomplishes the most complicated climb and jump never known by any player and finds a random item in a place so incredibly difficult and even "dumb" to even try getting to? What if that makes a new dungeon appear? Suddenly by fiddling around for hours doing nothing but climbing and jumping you reach the end of the world, pass an invisible wall, survive a two-hundred foot drop, and find a...scroll. Or another item in a lake of fire that no one dare swim to without fast swimming and a ton of fire resist?
Maybe no items are ever given, but somehow by the many clues gathered by others, people realize that this one incredibly difficult NPC in a city in some uninspired location needs to die and on his body is the start of a quest.
There could be a certain book that functions like a switch in someone's house which leads to a secret room.
Although I know...people would be on top of everything all the time if this were all true.
This is inspired by EQ1 rumors and exploits btw.
...maybe a doll in the corner of some rocky outcropping is actually part of a quest for the ghost of a girl wandering the ocean floor. Maybe some random plank of wood in the ocean has a name of something unknown and everyone tries to find out more clues about it.
I was going to post something similar to the OPs but he beat me to it. I feel that the perception system that was displayed in today's twitch stream was really a "wolf in sheeps clothing". Sure, there was no exclamation point above the npcs head but it sure felt like there was one. Something about the theme park questing really goes against the wild-west feeling that the devs talk about. When this system is used as it was demo'd today it really feels like World of Warcraft, (rushed, unoriginal, boring come to mind).
Sometimes feedback hurts, and perhaps this is just my opinion, but that entire "perception segment" was my least favorite part of the stream.
All is not lost though, I can see the potential of interacting with your enviornment but not like that. Let the adventurer explore, let them talk to random npcs with the hope of stumbling across one that hints of a quest (by hailing them perhaps) without spoon feeding them. Let fellow PC adventurers alert them of quests, not static, robotic NPCs.
I do not believe i am alone in my sentiments either...
No one is making anything more than what it is... It is simply a system that does not visually guide the player into predetermined paths. The player is encouraged to explore and then you come across a perception "clue" along the way. Even when given this clue you are still encouraged to explore, not giving you obvious map clues where to go...
I love it compared to a quest hub location where you are forced into pockets for collections or mob kills, or whatever. No orange path flows to guide you...
If you don't see the value in this versus almost all other MMOs / MMORPGs, I don't get it. It makes perfect sense with the way Pantheon is being designed.
Martell said:Klumpedge said:This game is barely half way into developement. Most gaming companies do not show anything like this at all trying to avoid the quick rush to judgement over an undeveloped tool or mechanic. As many stated above: This is Pre-pre Alpha. Give 'em a year or two before you go casting any real judgement of the product. At least let them finish it and stop begging for sneak peaks if you can't handle the idea that this is not the finished game, not by a long shot.
Thank You for your patience.
Ok, so in synopsis what you believe is "Miracles await those who have patience and do not question the Lord!"
Well, I doubt the ability of this group to deliver on anything they say.
I question their marketing-like language about features that we can't actually see.
I decry the marketing of missing mechanics found in every modern mmo, as "features". The absence of something is not a feature, get real. Even if it actually was worth something, like "Come to Springfield we DON'T burn witches here!" - still not a feature. Marketing negative space = bullshit.
Then one might question the wisdom of your attested VIP pledge as, "more money than sense".