You guys keep touting it as something new and phenomenally dynamic, but it just appears to be either:
1. An invisible exclamation point above an NPC's head that you choose to read or ignore when you come into range.
2. Voiceless text describing an area or situation when you come into range - you know, like any adventure game - ever. Think.. "Zork" old. (Additionally, if you want to see some actually cool examples of this look at what Dungeons & Dragons Online did with it.) What you guys have put forward is kind of sterile and boring.
I am not trying to denegrate here, I am hoping to be proven wrong. Is there something more to this "system"?
Yes, there is definitely more to the system than that, of which they have been pretty tight lipped. But remember, it's pre-pre-alpha, there is still a lot to be done so what we have seen so far is just a fraction of what is ultimately planned for the perception system. The goal is to encourage people go out, explore, and seek content rather than simply bouncing from quest hub to quest hub. Proximity triggered cues is just one element of that.
Is it completely revolutionary? Well sure, if you take only what we've seen so far, it's pretty standard fare in many MMOs these days. But, I am pretty sure they have a LOT more planned.
Edit: I are good at grammar.
Martell said:You guys keep touting it as something new and phenomenally dynamic, but it just appears to be either:
1. An invisible exclamation point above an NPC's head that you choose to read or ignore when you come into range.
2. Voiceless text describing an area or situation when you come into range - you know, like any adventure game - ever. Think.. "Zork" old. (Additionally, if you want to see some actually cool examples of this look at what Dungeons & Dragons Online did with it.) What you guys have put forward is kind of sterile and boring.
I am not trying to denegrate here, I am hoping to be proven wrong. Is there something more to this "system"?
I can see where you might think that, but as it has been pointed it, this is pre-alpha. They had staged a very simplistic introduction to what will be a much more complex system. Instead of having an just an obvious situation set up for us, you experience a vague message just stepping inside a huge player city. It might take you days to investigate every shop and NPC to find out what that message might lead to. So don't discount what you saw today.
The system itself is pretty basic at the moment. I think in the case of the stream, it was a scripted event that they used to show how it works generally and what we can expect the results of such interaction to be. For me, to be honest, the large scroll window that opened seemed a bit intrusive, and did give the whole interaction a regular questy feel. I would like to see it be much more subtle as it is fleshed out more. In a previous stream the system was used to find a key for a door in a dungeon. The group missed the prompt (iirc) as they went by because they were busy doing something else. In that case, they came to a locked door and then had to go back to find the key. These two examples are a very basic way that the perception system will be used throughout the game.
In terms of the voicelessness (it's a word now!) I totally see their point in terms of cost, which was defended to some degree by Cohh who shared that the costs can snowball out of control quickly. Would it be cool? Sure, but I do understand their limitations. I really don't know if the high costs are associated with the actual actors or with coding. If it is mostly with paying people to come in and do sound bites, I think a solution might be to offer the ability to do voiceovers to some of the more dedicated fans, such as those in the VIP tiers, of which I am not a member (yet! /wink). How cool would it be to come across an npc in game that you had done a voice over for? Pretty cool I would think!
I would say stay tuned and see how it develops, when it comes to launch I have total confidence that it will be cool.
Rominian said:I really don't know if the high costs are associated with the actual actors or with coding. If it is mostly with paying people to come in and do sound bites, I think a solution might be to offer the ability to do voiceovers to some of the more dedicated fans, such as those in the VIP tiers, of which I am not a member (yet! /wink). How cool would it be to come across an npc in game that you had done a voice over for? Pretty cool I would think!
I would say stay tuned and see how it develops, when it comes to launch I have total confidence that it will be cool.
It is definitely the cost of hiring the actors. Voice acting requires thousands of hours of multiple takes. It adds up very quickly.
The issue with having non-professional actors do it, as cool as it would be for us, is that it would be really hard to get any kind of consistency. Everyone has different mics, production qualities. And possibly most importantly, voice acting is hard. Bad voice acting is just...really cringeworthy. It's one of the few times I would use the term immersion breaking without being ironic. There are few things more jarring than clicking on an NPC to be greeted with voice acting woodier than Edward Woodward building a wood cabin.
Ok, so the general consensus is YES - nothing new, but we are just seeing a basic version?
All right, why not show us what is actually good about then? In both streams they talk about how great it is - but its nothing new, and nothing all that great.
Where and what is the good part of the perception system?
Rominian said:The system itself is pretty basic at the moment. I think in the case of the stream, it was a scripted event that they used to show how it works generally and what we can expect the results of such interaction to be. For me, to be honest, the large scroll window that opened seemed a bit intrusive, and did give the whole interaction a regular questy feel. I would like to see it be much more subtle as it is fleshed out more.
Agreed. I think it should be more subtle as well. Perhaps just the sound effect and maybe a text popup or even just something in chat.
Martell said:Ok, so the general consensus is YES - nothing new, but we are just seeing a basic version?
All right, why not show us what is actually good about then? In both streams they talk about how great it is - but its nothing new, and nothing all that great.
Where and what is the good part of the perception system?
I think the most similar system to be used might have been in the game DDO and if it works anything like that the system will be intresting for telling interactive stories without needing the lore shoved down your throat if you dont want it. sometimes it is more believable that you would come across somthing in the world like they showed, however being so early in development much of the system is just ideas of paper.
Personally i think it is kind of cool to say find a key in a hidden place by the level of investigation you may have, feels like a real DnD adventure i run with my mates in mmo form.
i think you should just take away what they have and what they can do with it and wait to see how it develops.
Martell said:Where and what is the good part of the perception system?
The automaticity, its application to NPCS, specific objects, or entire environments, the fact that it's a skill that can be increased (leading to characters which are more perceptive than others), its capacity to surprise players, the fact that it can communicate short bits of meaningful information very easily.
Dullahan said:It almost sounds like your credit card information fell into pantheonmmo by accident.
LOL, seriously! Too funny. We just need to be patient for more info. This last stream brought tons of new information and things too see. We are far off from release which means there is much to be explained.
I think Alex makes a good point as well. You have to become a Keeper. And sounds like there is a skill up attached to it. So if you dont have it or your skill is too low you might not be able to start a quest.
Martell, Im not sure what you were expecting, but I like it.
Yeah, it seems now more like a "little" system that pervades the whole world and will drastically shape how players are notified about secrets, quests, interesting info that factors into completing other quests, or dangers. Seems like, though just superficially text popups, it is a part of the foundation of the game and will have other elements designed around and into it. It might be more helpful to view it as a kind of infrastructure, maybe (all my supposition). And of course, who knows what larger things they have planned to show through it? Not us!
One of my favorite things about it is, as I mentioned above, the fact that it's a skill. So potentially different classes will be able to notice different things - I'm hoping my wizard will be able to notice subtleties the other classes will (perhaps suspect at first, and then) appreciate! Jk, but that'd be a dream. Like - "Don't pick up that bag of gold!"
Edit: Perception as a skill: "You see the group of pillars in the distance, you are intrigued by them so you go to them, you arrive and music begins to play which is very reminiscent to the musical theme of Thronefast (you may even get a Perception message that alerts you to this, if your Perception skill is high enough), you begin looking around and notice a figure standing by one of the pillars. She calls out to you, “Where are you from, stranger?” and you begin a conversation with her about Thronefast’s past."
- 7.13.16 Dev Diaries, Music and Sound Design
Martell said:I am not trying to denegrate here, I am hoping to be proven wrong. Is there something more to this "system"?
Im sorry but are you really not trying to denegrate because all you have done to anything we have tried to explain is retort with sarcastic comments, i understand this system might not be for you but you are not acting like you ever wanted to like it in the first place.
Martell said:It does sound like fun.
I hope I can keep my "text popup" skill maxxed every level without depriving my other combat/spell-casting oriented skills.
Well it seems based on your condescending and petulant tone that you had already made your mind up before you posted. You asked a question, and you got answers, don't really know what more you were expecting. But 7/10 for effort.
Martell said:Sorry. I have come off as quite unpleasant.
I am being petulant I guess, because I really hoped I was wrong about this system, and that I missed something.
You guys have driven home the fact that its nothing but text popups - bit of a disappointment.
In in your mind, pal. That's okay though. We can lead to water, but we can't make you think.
Martell said:Sorry. I have come off as quite unpleasant.
I am being petulant I guess, because I really hoped I was wrong about this system, and that I missed something.
You guys have driven home the fact that its nothing but text popups - bit of a disappointment.
It's OK, we all have those moments - I am just as guilty of that as anyone.
But I will say, I don't think we've given that impression at all. We don't really know much more than you do at this point - not until an official reveal anyway. The general consensus of the replies here are along the lines of "it's just text and cues right now, but it will be much more than that". Yes, it's speculation, but I am sure we would all be pretty disappointed if it was nothing but text popups. I understand right now it looks like nothing special, but a lot of us have faith in the team at VR to put their own unique spin on the concept, and bring something new to the table.
Its not a jab. Zork is good stuff.
My point was , and you can NOT deny this - during the streams they have GUSHED about how great the "perception system" is.
What am I missing?
As far as I can tell, it is voiceless text popups tied to NPCs/items. Is there more to it than that?
Dullahan said:Rominian said:The system itself is pretty basic at the moment. I think in the case of the stream, it was a scripted event that they used to show how it works generally and what we can expect the results of such interaction to be. For me, to be honest, the large scroll window that opened seemed a bit intrusive, and did give the whole interaction a regular questy feel. I would like to see it be much more subtle as it is fleshed out more.
Agreed. I think it should be more subtle as well. Perhaps just the sound effect and maybe a text popup or even just something in chat.
Just wanted to add my support to this sentiment. Less is more. I don't have to be perceptive or observant to see a scroll unfold at the top of my screen. Screen text with no scroll background repeated in chat text would be perfect to me. The scroll looked cheesy, IMO ~ Oddly it wasn't the scroll itself that was cheesy, it was that it seemed out of place for what we have come to expect (and want) for Pantheon.
+1 for scrolls on my screen being immersion breaking.
Martell said:Its not a jab. Zork is good stuff.
My point was , and you can NOT deny this - during the streams they have GUSHED about how great the "perception system" is.
What am I missing?
As far as I can tell, it is voiceless text popups tied to NPCs/items. Is there more to it than that?
right this second? no there isnt but as we have tried to say the system is very early on at the moment and there are things that VR are still not telling us. The best thing at the moment is to watch and wait, there will be more info eventually and prehaps it will evolve into a system like pen and paper games or adventure games like we all hope.