One of my favorite things of EQ was the extremely hard and complex keying for PoTime. The rich depth and diffiiculty and challenge of this made it a wonderful amazing compelling thing to pursue. Teh accomplishment was amazing.
And, it was so hard it took 18 months of open 72-man raids to get flagged, so it was a goal for a very long time.
I hated the whole GoD expansion so I can understand how different folks have different preferences but I think some really complex keying is a great thing to have.
I love keys. Like others have said, keys add to the mystery. They also make the game feel more alive and meaningful.
What I would love to see are different ways of becoming keyed. (Some of this stuff already exist in the games we all have played: single loot (twich Pantheon video = yay! But no key poofing, please!), others requiring loot collecting and some progressing through tiers.)
One thing I can't recall having seen in a game is a longer type of quest for a key with many different elements involved: fighting mobs, fighting bosses, collecting, flagging, discovering and talking to series of NPCs, [insert idea here]- all for that one key you get at the end. Parts of the quest could flag the whole group (not necessarily raid group) simultaneously to enable the next phase of the quest. Killing a boss could trigger a spirit thanking you for releasing him and asking you to follow through a secret wall, which was closed before the killiing of the boss. Other fun things could happen there beyond that wall. In other words, actions that would make questing for the key as fun and varied as possible. And keys could also be items you can use as gear.
Veeshan's Peak was real, Jesus is a myth. Stop asking for the easy way. I worked hard for all my keys including Veeshan's Peak. I hope they have temp keys you have to get everytime, I hope they have progressive keys. And I damn sure hope they make it so hard that all the helicopter kids are pissed off. Mommy ain't gonna be able to save you this time....work for it or hear about it...make your choice.
Jamie said:Gorrax said:And I damn sure hope they make it so hard that all the helicopter kids are pissed off.
I think I love this. I am not sure who the helicopter kids are but it just sounds so perfect it should be a permanent quote on someone's forum tag.
Alas they won't let me add a signature.....
Gorrax said:Veeshan's Peak was real, Jesus is a myth. Stop asking for the easy way. I worked hard for all my keys including Veeshan's Peak. I hope they have temp keys you have to get everytime, I hope they have progressive keys. And I damn sure hope they make it so hard that all the helicopter kids are pissed off. Mommy ain't gonna be able to save you this time....work for it or hear about it...make your choice.
Amen
starchildren3317 said:I am in agreement, and this from an EQ player that was not in a top end guild that had the resources to get all thier players keyed. To me, as some have pointed out, it gave that sense of mystery and hope. Mystery about what could possibly be behind that locked area, and hope that someday I might just find out.
I agree also. Always the hope, that maybe....someday.
Larirawiel said:Keys and locked areas i like! But i hope the keys are not locked behind a reputation grind wall. :>
Greetings
I highly doubt they will lock things behind reps. Most of EQ keys were long quests and/or farming. Possibly the best, and most hated, key quest: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=2000 at least for me anyway. Keying for Plane of Time was just about making your guild kill every boss in each tier before progressing through to the next. VP keying: http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/quest.html?quest=87
EQ's earlier key quests were pretty in depth and without following a guide, well it took a long time. I can't wait to start figuring things out in Pantheon
I like the idea of keyed areas. The mechanics and motivation for keying should be varied.
Mechanics Ideas:
1) Solo friendly quest (Something to work on when you cannot find a group or just feel like doing something solo)
2) Group quest (A reason to meet and interact with others, hopefully make new friends)
3) Factioning
4) Rare drop from mobs
5) Crafting
Motivation Ideas:
1) Access to new gear
2) Access to new crafting resources/materials
3) Access to good experience camps
4) Progression
5) Raid flagging
I am sure there are lots of other ideas, but this should provide a good sense of why keyed areas are an important game mechanic.
Larirawiel said:Keys and locked areas i like! But i hope the keys are not locked behind a reputation grind wall. :>
Greetings
Why single out that particular choice? Access to a zone who's entrance is controlled by a faction should be limited to those whom that faction actually likes. It's a reward after all. It is no different, fundamentally, than any other quest. In fact, it could be far easier because with each kill you're guaranteed to get a faction increase. A key that has multiple parts that are rare drops could prove far more difficult and take much more time. I knew people who took dozens upon dozens of hours to collect all 10 parts for the Vex Thal key. Whereas I got all the pieces in a few hours in the course of just 1 day.
You are right. But in such situations you could get access to the area by stealing the key and sneaking or killing the guarians of the entrance or wearing a disquise or other players could teleport you etc. But when you are forced to grind reputation because there is no other way to obtain a key/access to an area then meeeh. Pantheon should be flexible in such cases IMHO.
Greetings
Possibly not the majority opinion, but I love Keyed zones. I think instead of a VT ( EQ1 raid zone ) key quest though, it should be more tier like the PoP expac ( also EQ1 ). Its a good way to check to make sure your raid force is able to handle increasing lvls of difficulty. If you cant clear the ELE planes, you wont be clearing PoTime.
Keys should be for Doors, Boxes, in rare very cases Entrances, they should be searched for, or investigated, and learned about so the location of the key can be discovered. I especially like a puzzle that requires some thought to put it together , not just hey eveybody must go and kill 50 of these guys to make one guy spawn.
Doors that are a big puzzle lock are kind of cool too.
Whole Zones should never be Keyed.
If one person in a group has a key then the group should proceed into the keyed room.
Back "in the good ole days" on EQ, (look out, old man talking about the old days) my friends and I blew about 50 hours a week to keep up and really play at a good level. There is no way that kind of commitment can be expected, I would have no problem with about 20 - 25 hours a week to play well.
Restriction to areas need to be applied with a level head unless you wish for the type of game that requires 50 hours a week to play well. That could be risking dead on arrival in this day and age.
Most people I know who are PC gamers with a job do not have a ton of time to waste on stupid repetitive Keying runs. I know all about it and it is no fun after the 10th time helping guild members get keys to some area, much less the 50th time.
Make keying fun with a mental challenge or something.
I absolutely appreciate everybodys opinion, but in my own opinion, to much content locked away is a killer time sink unless it is implemented in a fun way.
Skycaster Crimsonhands
necro thread!
The only thing that I didn't like about early EQ was the need to carry a bag full of keys. Make a rune or scroll that can be scribed with the proper word/magic to allow a single item to hold all of your keys (keyring). Also, the need to create a corpse at the zone in of VP or ST right outside to hold your key was kinda frustrating!
Also, I think questing to gain access to areas is a good thing and allows a sense of accomplishments. While later expacs of EQs simply changed to requiring missions to be completed vs creating a physical key the concept has persisted in nearly every expac. The mission approach also prevents content denial if the 1 camp that drops the required part(s) is perma-camped by the alpha guild on the server. Currently you no longer the need EVERYONE to complete the key to gain access with the mission approach.. only a handful of players need to do the heavy lifting to request the first tier or raids, and then the flagging system kicked in that required 85% of the attendees to have the appropriate raid flag to proceed.
Knowing that Pantheon will not be taking the instanced approach, I expect that these camps will exist and will create an order of guilds. To help mitigate this.. I'd like to hope that Pantheon could take a similar approach to Velious...have distinctly different paths for end game focused guilds to migrate toward. Specifically, Skyshrine armor vs Giant Armor.. the distinct coloring and vastly devestating faction hits you took focusing on each makes it very difficult for competing guilds to cover all of the content available without significant efforts to change factions and geographic raiding targets.
Sarim said:Most keys or key quests in EQ (that I remember) were reasonable.
Someone wasn't around for VT keying I see. That key was a dam nightmare when every person needed it and there were 4-5 guilds doing it. Then ofc you had your trolls that would kill the leader in the caves in dawnshroud to despawn the rockhoppers.
I am all for keying. But hopefully they reign it in just a little bit. VT and VP were pretty harsh. Planes keying was where I think the level should be.