I haven't seen any topics directly discussing keyed zones or locations that are locked off.
I thought that talisman idea for Sleeper's Tomb in EQ was always cool and unique. I also find great humor in the fact that I played Everquest for 8 years and never got to see the inside of Veeshan's Peak also.
I also liked the Plane flagging system, where you could get some people into zones if you had a majority of people flagged for it. It sucked have to work your way up but once you got to Plane of Time, it was more rewarding than if it was accessible by everyone.
Making the entire game next to impossible to see would be a mistake. But I think have those few select zones that are always a challenge to even get into would be a good thing.
I've always been jealous of the people who got to see Veeshan's Peak. Its funny to think that I would talk to people who had been in there like they were witnesses to Jesus coming back to life or something...you'd tell your friends, "I talked to some guy who was in Veeshan's Peak and killed stuff" and they'd say "OMG Really? No way! I hope one day I can do that!".
I'd like to hope that something like this would be in Pantheon. Something like a zone full of demi-gods or something that only a few people will get to see early on due to their dedication to the game...but something that a dedicated casual player could eventually see down the line. And I say this as a person who will be limited in my playtime - not someone who can play 12 hours a day.
Dreake said:I haven't seen any topics directly discussing keyed zones or locations that are locked off.
I thought that talisman idea for Sleeper's Tomb in EQ was always cool and unique. I also find great humor in the fact that I played Everquest for 8 years and never got to see the inside of Veeshan's Peak also.
I also liked the Plane flagging system, where you could get some people into zones if you had a majority of people flagged for it. It sucked have to work your way up but once you got to Plane of Time, it was more rewarding than if it was accessible by everyone.
Making the entire game next to impossible to see would be a mistake. But I think have those few select zones that are always a challenge to even get into would be a good thing.I've always been jealous of the people who got to see Veeshan's Peak. Its funny to think that I would talk to people who had been in there like they were witnesses to Jesus coming back to life or something...you'd tell your friends, "I talked to some guy who was in Veeshan's Peak and killed stuff" and they'd say "OMG Really? No way! I hope one day I can do that!".
I'd like to hope that something like this would be in Pantheon. Something like a zone full of demi-gods or something that only a few people will get to see early on due to their dedication to the game...but something that a dedicated casual player could eventually see down the line. And I say this as a person who will be limited in my playtime - not someone who can play 12 hours a day.
Great post. And welcome aboard.
Most keys or key quests in EQ (that I remember) were reasonable. I hope that keying in Pantheon will be more tests of strength ("defeat this mob to show you're ready") instead of diligence ("collect x items through camping here or there").
Ohh, and if there are keys, I hope that a good /keys command will be implemented to hold these keys, so you don't need to carry them in your inventory.
I agree I loved EQ key quests. They added something really special to the zones. You felt special when you could get access to a zone that not everyone else had access to. Although it did make corpse runs extra fun as you had to find a cleric who was keyed for the zone or a necro who had a key to summon your corpse. But that made it even more fun. The thought that you could lose all your stuff if you make a mistake made the whole process feel so much more exciting.
So yeah I'd love to see some zones cut off from the rest of the player population as it makes those zones feel so much more dangerous and exciting. They don't have to go overboard with it but having 1 or 2 keyed zones would be great and maybe a keyed raid zone as well.
I could get behind having one zone per game ark needing a crazy key. Make it not the tip of the pyramid which everyone is headed towards but more like secret level not even on the metaphorical pyramid. Something that is only meant to have the most hardcore players ever. I would most defiantly never be in that category and that is perfectly fine with me.
Now making normal progression require keying is not a great idea. The key to seb was cool at just the very start but I had tons of times when the last member of your party (normally a required class) that runs all the way to the zone and finds out they have not got the key. Keying the main group experience zone is not a good idea.
I've always enjoyed the mystery behind a locked off section and the drive it caused to want to become keyed/attuned to that area. I love when there's a long questline with lots of lore behind the keying/attunement process :D Granted it does become a problem when the questlines want to bring you through group areas that hold little incentive other than the keying/attunment, as it can make it incredibly difficult to get a group for it and finish, but this can be easily remedied with good content xP
Rachael
Having a key or access to an area tied to achievement, lore, or exploration then it can add depth and value to the world. If the quest is just designed as a time sync to slow progression then it is a detractor and just bores the player base and fosters resentment or claims that the zone behind the locked door is not finished on release. Granted it is a truly fine line to balance and you cannot satisfy everyone with where it falls on the spectrum.
Liav said:I think the extremely difficulty keying/flagging quests are a bad idea.
Look no further than the cesspool that is VP keying on Phinigel. Please no.
Extremely difficult keying/flagging quests in small doses are a great idea. VP keying on Phinigel is great, but I agree handles it in a dated fashion. The overall idea is spot on though. Extremely hard keying for a very top end dungeon where you can get like 1-3 very nice pieces of armor but that's about it. It's certainly not required.
I am in agreement, and this from an EQ player that was not in a top end guild that had the resources to get all thier players keyed. To me, as some have pointed out, it gave that sense of mystery and hope. Mystery about what could possibly be behind that locked area, and hope that someday I might just find out.
I think keys/flagging are a nessecary evil. They allow the guilds to be staggered in progression and keep a lot of them from fighting over raid targets. While it can be a bad thing if you have some guild that wants to be a royal D bag, it's still a needed thing. It also gives people something to strive for. If you can walk right into any place then what are your goals to work for?
PoP flagging was some of the best from EQ imo. You needed to kill targets to progress to the next ones. Guilds blocked other guilds from places by locking down 1 target but these weren't all that hard to counter if you had the power to do so.
Enitzu said:I think keys/flagging are a nessecary evil. They allow the guilds to be staggered in progression and keep a lot of them from fighting over raid targets. While it can be a bad thing if you have some guild that wants to be a royal D bag, it's still a needed thing. It also gives people something to strive for. If you can walk right into any place then what are your goals to work for?
Agreed. Probably necessary. I just hope any gating questlines have a reason for exsiting and meaning to the unlocked area. They should actually teach you something about what you might encounter there rather than just killing 4 raid mobs to access more raid mobs.
Example: killing dragons that you never see again and then obtaining a heatshield to enter Deathtoll in EQ2 doesn't count as reason or meaning
I'm a fan of them. A good keyed zone should have a nice balance of difficulty, fun, and time sink to enter it in my opinion. I feel that the time sink shouldn't neccessarily be on an individual basis, but used as a mechanic to delay an entire raid force from going from not keyed, to keyed.
Sarim said:Most keys or key quests in EQ (that I remember) were reasonable. I hope that keying in Pantheon will be more tests of strength ("defeat this mob to show you're ready") instead of diligence ("collect x items through camping here or there").
Ohh, and if there are keys, I hope that a good /keys command will be implemented to hold these keys, so you don't need to carry them in your inventory.
Agreed. Although, I do like the idea of less common key drops happening in some zones that can give you access to a few additional camp spots which other groups may not have access too.
I guess you just never know when people are going to agree with you. I would have bet everyone would be against it.
I like having stuff for people to do as a team. Keys and flags are goals that everyone has where only some people work on some quests etc. I know this may cuase tons of issues I am not considering and I am not an expert on server population and economy control but I do like the player base having common goals with a lot of stuff to do.
When people have the need and desire to accomplish something they get together and do it. This gives tanks work to do. Without a group I got nothing.
Although some people have valid opinions about the design of Vex Thall in EQ
(Namely, a "time-sink" - not "time sync" for there is nothing to get insync or sychronized with, and I'm not talking about the band,and I am not abbreviationg a musical term)
I thought the way to get the key was well done, it required that you visit and spend time in almost all the zones in the expansion to get the shard.The shards were combined to create the key.
The nice thing about it was that it could be done in groups, so if the guild was scheduling to head there eventually, the players could manage the shard collecting on their own or in PuG's outside of normal raid times and it made you learn and "take in the air" of the various zones.
I agree, keyed areas are a good thing if implemented correctly.
Some of my best memories in EQ were keying/flagging for VT, Seb, POP elemental planes, and other lesser keys around the world.
They give one more reason for people to work together, they help the devs by stretching out content a little more and it just makes more sense that if there's this big fortress with a big baddie and his crew in there, they would probably have the gates locked / some type of magical barrier in place that you would need to circumvent.
A lot of games and expansions these days launch with an everyone must see every single tid bit of content there is ASAP!
People level to max in a week, all raid zones are unlocked and they waltz right in.
Some keying processes in EQ1 would make or break guilds, I saw many guilds disintegrate trying to complete POT flagging, I saw others come together and become an amazing cohesive unit.
One thing I LOVED about EQ was the fact that there were so many zones I could not enter, it gave the world an air of mystery and awe.
I would look at the eq atlas maps website and dream about seeing some of those zones, I'd listen to stories from my high lvl friends about their adventures in TOV, etc.
I hope VR isn't afraid to lock us out of some areas and let us earn the right to enter the realms of dragons, gods and giants.
Manouk said:Although some people have valid opinions about the design of Vex Thall in EQ
(Namely, a "time-sink" - not "time sync" for there is nothing to get insync or sychronized with, and I'm not talking about the band,and I am not abbreviationg a musical term)
I thought the way to get the key was well done, it required that you visit and spend time in almost all the zones in the expansion to get the shard.The shards were combined to create the key.
The nice thing about it was that it could be done in groups, so if the guild was scheduling to head there eventually, the players could manage the shard collecting on their own or in PuG's outside of normal raid times and it made you learn and "take in the air" of the various zones.
This is the kind of stuff I enjoy in games... Something you can take your time with, set goals to, and help others to obtain in order to progress. It really gives you a sense of accomlishment along the way...
Bring them on, the key quests and everything related to it was perfect. All of this is time sync and it worked perfectly for everyone.
Just because a handful of people got stressed out with POP doesnt mean many others didnt like it.
Those ideas where not ment to be easy. It was ment to be difficult.
I'm ambivalent about this whole issue. What I don't want to see, is a few years down the road, certian zones/dungeons/raids becoming either completely inaccessible becuase everyone has outleveled it OR becoming such a PITA becuase everyone's alt HAS to go through it to get to where everyone else is and you spend the majority of your time doing that. Don't get me wrong, I want difficulty in leveling, but if this game is going to rely heavily on grouping (which is good!), flagging, or keying then there needs to be mechanics that allow new players and/or alts get through obsolete areas, after new expansions come out.
Mikaela said:I'm ambivalent about this whole issue. What I don't want to see, is a few years down the road, certian zones/dungeons/raids becoming either completely inaccessible becuase everyone has outleveled it OR becoming such a PITA becuase everyone's alt HAS to go through it to get to where everyone else is and you spend the majority of your time doing that. Don't get me wrong, I want difficulty in leveling, but if this game is going to rely heavily on grouping (which is good!), flagging, or keying then there needs to be mechanics that allow new players and/or alts get through obsolete areas, after new expansions come out.
Brad has addressed this with a reply to someone who stated their disregard for DEVs going back and updating old/original zones. He stated that is really necessary to update older zones in order to freshen them up and bring them to a level in line with the whole world as it grew. Part of the discussions regarding vertical and lateral growth of the game world. So I could see your concerns as something with which they would need to address in those instances, and if it become more of a major sticking point before the updates came online, I'm certain they would address it.
More on the subject as to not necro the post :)..I do like keying/flagging as they are puzzles to be unlocked or put together and solved in the game world