Kalgore said:I would most likely not play if I wasnt able to talk and had to learn a new language just to play a video game. If I'm going to learn another it will be for my job and abig ass raise.
It is a good idea but I just wanna play my game and smite stuff crusader style
kakiye?
In most cases, players want to be able to communicate with other races without having to learn a language first. That said, in an RP/hardcore server we might enforce language barriers. The trick is to come up with a system where you can learn other languages over time that can't be artificially accelerated by just having someone spam you with a different language. Any ideas on how this might be accomplished?
Aradune said:In most cases, players want to be able to communicate with other races without having to learn a language first. That said, in an RP/hardcore server we might enforce language barriers. The trick is to come up with a system where you can learn other languages over time that can't be artificially accelerated by just having someone spam you with a different language. Any ideas on how this might be accomplished?
Buying/looting language pages/books that can be read to increase skill?
I'm around spanish speaking people all day and have learned very little stricly from listening (Especially without context o the conversation). What I have learned is from me stopping them and having them translate or pronounce something, so simply listening to someone speak a language is seldom going to help you leanr it with out some translation to begin with. So I agree that spamming a language should not work.
Aradune said:In most cases, players want to be able to communicate with other races without having to learn a language first. That said, in an RP/hardcore server we might enforce language barriers. The trick is to come up with a system where you can learn other languages over time that can't be artificially accelerated by just having someone spam you with a different language. Any ideas on how this might be accomplished?
Obviously, training the skill using the tried and true EQ method with guildmasters and such is an avenue you could take. Until such time that you can actually understand enough to communicate, maybe using a comprehensive emote system would be the only way to communicate. That would be pretty nifty.
"Aradune points to the west"
"Tralyan raises his eyebrow"
"Aradune swings an imaginary sword"
"Tralyan nods affirmative"
And off we go, riding into the sunset, in search of mobs to kill.
P.S. Boom! First group with Aradune! He was an ok tank. 5/10 would recommend, but better bring a great healer
-Tralyan
Aradune said:In most cases, players want to be able to communicate with other races without having to learn a language first. That said, in an RP/hardcore server we might enforce language barriers. The trick is to come up with a system where you can learn other languages over time that can't be artificially accelerated by just having someone spam you with a different language. Any ideas on how this might be accomplished?
Personally, I would prefer having to find texts/tomes that would decipher 1 letter of another language. Not sure how many people remember playing Final Fantasy X, the Al Bhed spheres? That kind of thing. I would rather find books or pages scattered around the world, not in towns this way there should be no kos issues, in order to learn a language. Maybe Ogre languages would be in ruins pertaining to them, maybe find Dark Myr tablets under water. I think it could make for some pretty decent scavenger hunting and add more into the content rather than just clicking a few buttons at a trainer then spamming a macro
Like I said on the other page, I believe you could have races drop different fragments of their own language. Enitzu had some good ideas that would mesh. It could be something scattered randomly and rarely off all mobs, or something from particular mobs in a certain dungeon, in or near a library. Either way, you could take those shards and bind them into a book (with or without use of crafting depending on how involved you would want the process to be).
Each city could have a librarian/tutor (archeage), and you take the completed text to them to train. The text would be consumed or perhaps the tutor would "add it to their library" and that was the payment for the lesson in language. Ideally, there should be a cooldown on how much you could learn at a time, regardless of how many books you've collected.
You could go even further and have a sort of secondary tradeskill called Linguistics. They could also provide pages of writing in addition to those dropped. You wouldn't want them to trivialize the process, so there would have to be some sort of gameplay or process to acquiring the necessary components to craft the pages/books.
Aradune said:In most cases, players want to be able to communicate with other races without having to learn a language first. That said, in an RP/hardcore server we might enforce language barriers. The trick is to come up with a system where you can learn other languages over time that can't be artificially accelerated by just having someone spam you with a different language. Any ideas on how this might be accomplished?
Some Ideas:
Just a few thoughts.
I thought it was interesting the way languages worked in EQ, but it was pretty pointless in the end.
Maybe maintain a common tongue between players, but have some "lost/ancient" languages that have to be learned via found scrolls or interaction with certain quest npc as part of some extremely long, and rewarding epic quest. Maybe knowing those lost language can also effect certain items by being able to read the text that is inscribed in them.
There are a lot of ways languages could be worked in if they had a mind to. Quests, gaining faction, dispensing lore. In the end, some might view it as little more than a grind or time sink. However, to those who aren't just rushing to the end and who "stop and smell the roses", it can be a way of creating a real sense of depth to the world.
Thinking of this reminds me of Velious where you chose a faction with Dwarves, Dragons or Giants. What if their language was part of that process. It also brings to mind the "Speak as a dragon" quest line during classic EQ2. Like most stuff in EQ2, it was just part of a series of mandatory quests in a very linear themepark game, but if you had a world full of peoples and languages, both modern and ancient, it could become a stepping stone to all kinds of content.
all my ideas already mentioned, darnit!!! :) Good job everybody, like what is mentioned so far myself.
Tutor, finding items to translate in the wild, and added benefits to questing/lore/prestige et all...
Two thoughts,
1. I like the idea of multiple languages in game, it just makes sence, more so since all these races are from different worlds. So im all for this, more so if there is a cool charm like in EQ1 with bonuses the more languages you know! ok, maybe night a charm, but the ability to read books in other languages that impacts your perception, which we already know is going to be a super important system.
2. As much as I believe what I said above, forcing people from level one to learn a new language to talk to their friends and guildies, may be a bit too far in this current MMO climate. Great idea, but lets not take it too far too fast.
Even with a common language I hope there are multiple languages. but not force players to have to learn it (not counting RP servers). but have it used for more than just chatting like,
Race lore should be in that races language, and same for some class lore where you would find different parts of lore in the languages of all the races that can play that class.
And have access to a race dictionary of the race your making when naming a character. So you can look up words in the races language to help pick your name. So if you’re a elf and wanted the name Black Widow but it was taken you could look it up and take Baintreach Dubh (which is from google translate Black widow to Irish) but in the elven language instead.
In EQ2, there are several languages. Some you learn from books, others you learn from quests. The do not prevent you from grouping, because you don't have to use them unless you want to, except certain NPC encounters.
If you want to complete certain quests, you have to learn the language.
But, I know the role players really love them.
It was just one of a few things that seemed unessesary but it added flavor and was pretty cool, Being cussed out in Elven made me want to learn it.
NPC languages as a part of a Quest are pretty cool; In EQ 2 I had to learn Elder Dragon to speak with Nagafen. I think you had to learn the language of the Giants to even get started on that quest.
Aradune said:In most cases, players want to be able to communicate with other races without having to learn a language first. That said, in an RP/hardcore server we might enforce language barriers. The trick is to come up with a system where you can learn other languages over time that can't be artificially accelerated by just having someone spam you with a different language. Any ideas on how this might be accomplished?
EQ had a language system that worked pretty well IMO except that it never really mattered either. I liked the way it would semi garble the players chat based on how well you could understand it, (especially liked the drunk system :P), but beyond this it really never mattered in terms of gameplay.
If your going to do language, and I think you should (immersion) then knowing the language should matter, perhaps something like the following:
1. Area's of the game tend to have NPCs that speak common/language X
2. Hanging around these area's (listening to NPCs/doing their quests) will increase your skill until you can:
- use vendors/bank in a given area
- perform minor tasks for NPCs that may not speak common (some will speak common so that progression can begin)
- eventually perceive (percpetion system) advanced quests associated with the area that when completed will furthar increase your skill in language X
- Allowing you to complete an epic quest at some point (perhaps each epic quest requires 1 or more languages to complete)
3. You can learn from other players, if you hear them speaking lanuage X, but its affect is minimal and only yields 1 skill point per 5 distinct players per 24hr period
4. Speaking langue X yourself will give you bonuses to learning the language giving a 50% bonus to skill points when listening to NPCs
5. some spells may only work when spoken in language X at a particular skill level - perhaps 2 or more languages would be required to master some spells
6. some weapons/armor may only respond to players that understand that weapon/armor's native langauge - Its not up to the magic to understand us, we must understand the magic :P
7. increasing your knowledge of a language may also help to increase your faction with the natives of the area opening up more opportunities
8. Some NPCs may only talk to you if you reach a certain skill in their language and faction at some level
9. Perhaps speaking one language or another to some NPCs could result in different outcmes/quest lines being triggered
Just a few ideas about language.
-Az
Aradune said:In most cases, players want to be able to communicate with other races without having to learn a language first. That said, in an RP/hardcore server we might enforce language barriers. The trick is to come up with a system where you can learn other languages over time that can't be artificially accelerated by just having someone spam you with a different language. Any ideas on how this might be accomplished?
*Cough* Lorekeeper *Cough*
https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4252/random-thought-lorekeeper-skill
I think the Language System in EQ2 was pretty good. There was a quest involved for each language, and most of them took more than 15 minutes to complete. First time you go to Cazic Thule you don't understand what the lizard guys are screaming when they croak. But as you continue to farm the zone they dropped Thulian boxes. Once you got 6 boxes you learned the language. Each box could only be looted by one person. To Speak as a Dragon was actually an epic quest line but was necessary to complete in order to speak to Nagafen. There were plenty of instances where a language was required in order to start a quest and I'm fine with that. I don't really like the idea of not being able to communicate with other players though. One of my favorite memories in EQOA was when I swam from Neriak to Freeport around level 5. Took almost an hour of swimming. Once I got to Freeport I was the only dark elf around, and I was glad that I could speak with the other players. Language should be used for lore and questing, not communicationg between players, IMO
Just to point out, it'd be a nice tweak to the lorekeeper/perception system to unlock languages when and mainly when, you are working the perception mechanics as it'd make sense a skar commoner would give a quest to someone who can speak their language. I doubt every child, peasant and slave would speak common in a world made of a metaphorical phased reality car crash
My complicated and expensive way to implement a cool language dynamic involves hiring an Anthropologist that did some work in linguistics. And then translate the theory they expound (and getting another anthropologist to accept this theory is almost impossible, unless they ALL do, so anticipate criticisms from out of the blue) into a game mechanic. Kind of like the meme on Rockwell Automation Retro-Encabulators, but the other way around where the Computer guy is listening to the anthropologist and needs to translate it into a retro-encabulator.
In addition to garbled letters (a-la an old mechanic) being "heard" when spoken, also have certain key words become understandable sooner. For instance Everyone hates the Orc. If I dont understand you but I know we hate orcs, when you point to the orc and say XYZ, I will catch on pretty quick that when you say XYZ you mean Orc. That would be a word I would learn quickly. So the next time we meet I wouild "hear" you say "Minauk! nige tu miit o agon. yuan to croop ind kall sume Orcs, agon?" I would not understand you completely, but I would catch on you were talking about orcs. Same thing like "kill" or "hunt" or Town, dungeon and area names like Amberfest would be quickly learned. But the nuances, not so much.
I would like ot see some "study" put into it even if it is just the reading of a book like in Oblivion skill books. But the fun part can be getting the pages to put together the tome to take to a NPC to get some of it translated, but not all. That way, the next time I would hear: ' Manouk! nice tu meet you agon, You want to croop ind kill some Orcs?"
Jeet?
Nah I'm good, I had lunch an hour ago.
*edited to include jokes*
Brits first time in Australia, looking around and see a huge Rabbit-like creature carrying its baby in a pouch on its stomach and hopping on hind legs. They see a bunch of Aborigines near by and ask " What is THAT!?" to which the Aboriginese reply " Kan-guru." It was only years later that a missonary learned the Aboiginal language and learned that "Kan-guru" meant "what did you say?".
Likewise, I can trace my lineage back to a Native American tribe called the Heh-Kahwee. Once the puritans landed on plymouth rock, theystarted walking around in the woods and got lost. They ran into a group of Native Americans and said "where the Heck are we!" (say it like "were the heck ah we!" for full impact- also use the vulgar to taste...the fuckawe tribe). So, the Natives thought we were the hekawe tribe.
