Just starting a new thread to discuss languages in Pantheon.
Manouk mentioned languages in another post.. and it got me wondering if Pantheon will have them? and what you guys think about them? Reduntant? Fun? More immersive? What if there was no common language.. and we had to all talk to each other to learn it.. that'd be interesting. What you guys think?
I would most likely not play if I wasnt able to talk and had to learn a new language just to play a video game. If I'm going to learn another it will be for my job and abig ass raise.
It is a good idea but I just wanna play my game and smite stuff crusader style
Just to make sure you know.. I'm not saying put it in.. it's a what if :) - I agree too. Couldn't really do it in a mmo like this.. altho it'd be interesting to see.
Nimryl said:Just to make sure you know.. I'm not saying put it in.. it's a what if :) - I agree too. Couldn't really do it in a mmo like this.. altho it'd be interesting to see.
Oh no I know. I was more of a If a game put it in I wouldnt play it. I would love to see games like this I just wouldnt play because my game time is valuable and the time I do have I wanna chat and kill monsters
Ha-ha Nimryl! you beat me to it! I was just thnking that this very subject might be a good kislin/jason-esque topic.
Yes, I liked different languages in game. They normally did not take too long to "learn" but it was a good way to pass time on a boat ride. If you started off with two languages, like the two nearest cities, that allowed at least some grouping abilities.
If it was a newbie style area and basic learning-fighting going on, you could possibly manage a quiet small group while you listened to what the others were saying. If you wiped, it could be a bit awkward, but, part of the challenge none-the-less. From an immersion standpoint it made travelling a large distance elsewhere making you truly feeling like a stranger in a strange land, which was neat.
I like different languages, especially secret ones like thieves cant. it took me forever to get mastery of it since no rogues wanted to share, which I understood.
I have to admit cheating a little around it with emotes, but mine were in-game-allowed-macro'd like // /em /introduce(%T), (%P) is a (%R) Manouk introduces herself, she is a erudite.// and I could target the other player and get // manouk introduces Sydney, she is a halfling// so I could figure out what language to use. I ws speakng gnome and she did not know gnome- talk about profiling! lol.
I like the idea of having to learn languages. Even if it's for strictly NPC and faction type interaction. It could have certain impacts on questing etc. If you can't understand a certain language then how can you progress etc.
I'd be interested in hearing thoughts about this topic from the devs.
Learned Goblin last night. No problem with languages in a game. EQ has always had them, they dont affect anything for anyone unless you are a collector of things and want to learn all the languages you can. In 16 years of EQ Ive literally seen zero detriment to having languages in the game and the only spam was when people wanted it to learn. Not learning a language also has no affect on the game or your gameplay.
Liav said:Pointless. It just leads to people doing idiotic stuff like sitting groups spamming macros at eachother to max out a skill. Doing a 15 minutes quest and learning a language as a result also doesn't really make any sense.
I see no point, tbh.
The point is immersion. While true that having no common languages or learning languages via spamming chat macros is kinda dumb, having different languages can add a lot to immersion.
Having proud NPCs that choose to only communicate in their native tongue or passive aggressive NPCs that get rid of peoples they don't care for by feigning ignorance of other languages can add depth to the game world.
You are correct in asserting that spamming chat macros or doing a 15 minute quest to gain languages doesn't make any sense. But what about spending a week or two primarily questing/grouping/interacting with a certain race of NPCs? Improving languages should be very similar to gaining faction and the two could go hand in hand to create more robust and intricate systems. As an example: will the Dark Myr really think you're a cool dude for killing dangerous sea goblins if you can't even communicate in their superior language?
One more feature to add breadth to the game and further individualize races. As long as it was done similar to EQ and included a common I'd enjoy it. This is one of those features that not everyone is going to use but it does have its place for those who enjoy RP in a world with diverse races and cultures.
It'd be pretty cool to pick up quests tho only after you've learnt a langauge.. and I also agree that spamming line after line is a bad way to learn it. Maybe you could pick up a book to actually learn how to read it, compare both books, work out the text.. find the hidden pieces of foreign quest book or something. That'd be kinda cool. You know, buy the reference books you need for the quest book, add them to your library in your player housing.. where it wouldn't just be a decoration, but actually of some use. Map books for old location names etc etc.. It'd be sweet to figure out quests that way... Imagine talking to your friends about this quest you've studied up on and explaining it... and off you go on your merry travels to figure it all out at the location etc.
Gurt said:The point is immersion. While true that having no common languages or learning languages via spamming chat macros is kinda dumb, having different languages can add a lot to immersion.
Having proud NPCs that choose to only communicate in their native tongue or passive aggressive NPCs that get rid of peoples they don't care for by feigning ignorance of other languages can add depth to the game world.
You are correct in asserting that spamming chat macros or doing a 15 minute quest to gain languages doesn't make any sense. But what about spending a week or two primarily questing/grouping/interacting with a certain race of NPCs? Improving languages should be very similar to gaining faction and the two could go hand in hand to create more robust and intricate systems. As an example: will the Dark Myr really think you're a cool dude for killing dangerous sea goblins if you can't even communicate in their superior language?
The list of things that can increase immersion or whatever is probably infinite. I think there are at least a hundred million more interesting mechanics than languages.
Nimryl said:It'd be pretty cool to pick up quests tho only after you've learnt a langauge.. and I also agree that spamming line after line is a bad way to learn it. Maybe you could pick up a book to actually learn how to read it, compare both books, work out the text.. find the hidden pieces of foreign quest book or something. That'd be kinda cool. You know, buy the reference books you need for the quest book, add them to your library in your player housing.. where it wouldn't just be a decoration, but actually of some use. Map books for old location names etc etc.. It'd be sweet to figure out quests that way... Imagine talking to your friends about this quest you've studied up on and explaining it... and off you go on your merry travels to figure it all out at the location etc.
That does sound pretty epic. It would be cool if they combined it with factions as someone else already said in this thread.
So for instance there is an outpost that starts KoS to all players but you find some books and stuff of their lying around and you slowly learn the language. Once you know enough of the language to read the books they will tell you what mobs you need to kill to increase faction standing with them. Once you have gained enough faction you can then get some really special quests from the outpost that only the most dedicated of players could get because they have both learned the language and done some faction grinding in order to be given the quests in the first place.
Cromulent said:Nimryl said:It'd be pretty cool to pick up quests tho only after you've learnt a langauge.. and I also agree that spamming line after line is a bad way to learn it. Maybe you could pick up a book to actually learn how to read it, compare both books, work out the text.. find the hidden pieces of foreign quest book or something. That'd be kinda cool. You know, buy the reference books you need for the quest book, add them to your library in your player housing.. where it wouldn't just be a decoration, but actually of some use. Map books for old location names etc etc.. It'd be sweet to figure out quests that way... Imagine talking to your friends about this quest you've studied up on and explaining it... and off you go on your merry travels to figure it all out at the location etc.
That does sound pretty epic. It would be cool if they combined it with factions as someone else already said in this thread.
So for instance there is an outpost that starts KoS to all players but you find some books and stuff of their lying around and you slowly learn the language. Once you know enough of the language to read the books they will tell you what mobs you need to kill to increase faction standing with them. Once you have gained enough faction you can then get some really special quests from the outpost that only the most dedicated of players could get because they have both learned the language and done some faction grinding in order to be given the quests in the first place.
^ Pretty cool too.
Makes sense to me that the different races, especially the more reclusive ones, would speak different languages. There are ways to learn it that wouldn't rely solely on spamming a macro but that could be included. I've been playing Project: Gorgon off and on and there you pickup pages (in sequential order) of a book on Goblinese to learn that language. Without knowing it you can't undertand them and therefore can't buy/sell or pick up quests from a Goblin. I like that just fine. It'll be cool when I can finally speak to him. :)
A while back someone here (I think it was @Raidan, thanks btw) linked to an account on reddit about playing EQ on Firiona Vie after it launched. I ended up saving the link cause I thought that whole rule set sounded cool. The entire article is here and here's the excerpt regarding language barriers.
Second: Early on, communication was really, really awkward(/hilarious). Bear in mind nobody had voice chat back then, so this was a massive barrier. You literally couldn't read what other people had typed. Have you ever tried to act out a phrase or set of instructions with a character an MMO, using emote animations and running back & forth, as if you were playing charades? Omg... there were some epically bad mob pulls and hilarious trains, as group communication and strategy collapsed over a misinterpreted gesture.
The 3 (good alignment) elf races had a slight advantage out of the gate, as they all spoke the same language. Half-elves were initially valuable as cross-race translators/teachers (knowing both Elvish and Human languages), particularly as Human gradually (and predictably) became the lingua franca of FV. Oddly, rogues had a great advantage early on, as the Thieves Cant language allowed them to converse among themselves across racial barriers (including talking crap to the enemy ;) ). There were language-learning parties, where you'd sit in a group and spam your language macros until everybody had hit their point cap for the hour. (Everyone sat in a circle, and then you'd stand up to indicate when you'd hit your point cap.) Learning "enemy" languages was even harder, since character alignments meant you couldn't group with them in the first place -- you just had to loiter near opposite-aligned characters who were talking in /say. It was all slow going but hugely rewarding. Nothing shaped the early days of FV like the language barriers, that was something truly unique.
@Malsirian Ah didn't know about that. I joined at Luclin on a non-RP server. :)
Dreconic said:Can we have a game where EQ is the father, VG is the hot young mother, but they got divorced forcing the game to be raised by the new mommy Blizzard who has her own trust fund from her big daddy Activision and is at war with the uncle EA?
I lol'd, it's all I got.
I think languages are important in a game. They add another facet that can be used in quests/lore/etc as well as, in my opinon, a must on RP servers.
On non-RP servers there should be a common language, up to the developers how much each race can talk of it, though ;) Quests, items, spell, many things could have a bonus for knowing a certain language. Nothing game breaking, but a perk. For instance Spell X does 20-30 damage, but if you learn it in it's native laguage you get an extra 5 points at the top end. Quests could be slightly richer in their rewards, items could be sold for slightly more if you spoke the same language, so on.
As for learning them, I'd like to see something different than how EQ handled them. Macro and spam as well as the ability to learn every language is, to me, terrible. I'd be in favour of a cap on how many you can learn perfectly and then the rest you can't learn as well - again up to the devs to decide all that. Learning could be casual since not everyone would speak everything perfectly, you'd pick up bits of other languages as you group, hang out in populated areas, so on. More of a time exposed to the language as opposed to spamming in a group for skill ups. Learning could be accellerated by visiting areas/towns that speak that language.
There's a lot of ways and possibilities to make language a living, breathing part of the world without it seriously impacting game play. Don't want to learn them? Great, not everyone likes to fish, either. :)
In this thread, many people seem to have no idea how language have been used in the past.
Yes, spamming languages shouldn't be a thing. However, people won't "have to learn" to group. That is what common tongue is for.
In ArcheAge you had a tutor that you brought books to. They would teach you a little bit of the language, and then it would be on cooldown for several hours. They could totally take such a system, have fragments of books drop or be rewarded from quests, use them to assemble a book, and then find someone who is a master in the language (probably an NPC) to teach you more of the language. Voila, learning languages could be something neat.
You could then take those languages and use them to converse with npcs to learn about places, things, lore and history, or important quests. The options are really endless.
Its a bit of a shame that people were willing to dismiss something like this without any real consideration.
Dullahan said: Yes, spamming languages shouldn't be a thing. However, people won't "have to learn" to group. That is what common tongue is for.
I think they're just expressing there opinion from my OP. It was an idea/thought by me in my OP to get people thinking more.. :)
Dullahan said:In this thread, many people seem to have no idea how language have been used in the past.
....
Its a bit of a shame that people were willing to dismiss something like this without any real consideration.
I agree with you 100%! Fortunately, I am willing to bet the devs have given it real consideration and I doubt they dismissed it as easily. That's just my guess though. We'll see. Maybe it'll come up in the stream today. :)
I'm not sure how relevant it is still, but regarding languages (amongst other items):
https://youtu.be/95ag2L7v-l0?t=1h14m52s
I know the languages mechanic in EQ was a bit 'fluffy' but it was fun :) At the time I wondered why they didn't use it as something you had to do to pick up certain quests and/or as a gate to gaining certain factions - I think that would be a great idea
The common language is pretty essential, though - wouldn't want a barrier to grouping.
That doesn't mean you won't meet character race NPCs that can't or refuse to speak common though. Want to get faction with (and quests from or trade with) the ogre cheiftains? Well, they aren't going to stoop to speaking elvish (or whatever you speak). Go find a friendly ogre to learn from... or kill some and read their newspapers...
For unfriendly or more exotic races you could quest to find language 'artifacts' even trade fragments or primers or whatever, then when you have enough go to a trainer with them and viola you know the language.