Wandidar said:
Canadina reminded me of another - people standing right on top of merchants, bankers, etc... in a way that fully covers them. You know they are doing it on purpose, because they will be there for excessively long times.
Not only standing there...RIDING there! Can't count the times I'm doing some banking and someone shoves their horses backside into my face ;) Riding in buildings should be forbidden (or is that too much of a restriction?).
In general, artificial restrictions on where you can go or what you can do. A nice wall I could walk on? Lets jump...oh darn, can't...they put an invisible barrier over it :/
1) /echo what Wandidar and Sevens wrote - every class should not be able to do everything. There should be pure healers, pure tanks, pure CC/utility and pure DPS. Have hybrids that can do overlapping things ok, but no class should be superlative in more than one role.
2) the process of leveling a tradeskill drives me crazy in almost every game, because they almost always work on the "build 100,000 nuts & bolts, and that grants you the knowledge of how to build the Death Star" mechanic. Tradeskilling can be made a lot less nonsensical, if instead of making 100 whatevers to gain 10 points or unlock recipes, you have to make specific items for specific trainers, who then share with you some of their secrets because they feel like you have what it takes. Something like that.
3) Smooth, polished gameplay, game mechanics, net code, server infrastructure, and customer service all taking a backseat to eye candy. If you have the prettiest pile of garbage, it's still garbage, but if you have a diamond in the rough, it's still a diamond. Freaking hate when developers spend 90% on pretty and 10% on everything else.
4) echoing my tradeskill rant, the adventuring gear equivalent, where you do the exact same ridiculously easy quest for the same NPC every day for a month, and in return, you get to purchase a piece of gear that is roughly equal to what would drop off a dragon you needed 50 friends to kill. "Holy cow, that is the finest Uber Sword of L33tness I have ever seen. Verily thou must have slain a terrible foe for such a magnificent weapon! Uhm no, actually, I killed 10 rats for Farmer Bob every day for the last month, and he just gave me this thing...great trade, right?"
5) Griefers on PVE servers who are too scared to take their annoying games to a PVP server. May all their CPUs melt.
When devs say “selling cosmetic items does not hurt the game”
Class choices that mean nothing. Healers that can tank, Tanks that can heal…
Crafting that means nothing until max level
Player Housing… /duck
When devs say that players don’t like to play healers… Removing healer classes…
Upgrading every item every other day of playing…
Randomly generated equipment… aka Brute Hammer of Frost, Wise Hammer of Frost…
Vanity pets… Should be able to toggle seeing them
Holiday vanity equipment outside of the holiday… Seeming people in July with two candy cane swords and a pumpkin head.
Stats that have no value to your class… aka wisdom having no benefit to a str class
Important NPC (Epic Villans, gods, important people) not having their own graphic.
Abilities that go… Fire Ball 1, Fire Ball 2, Fire Ball 3… Should go Ember Ball, Flame Ball, Fire Ball, Inferno Ball, Lava Ball…
Having no use for money other than to repair… (Not a fan of buying things I did not kill)
Enemies that cant realistically defeat you… If a mob can’t kill you while you are afk …
Spell graphics that making fighting in groups like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evm_CeAU-rY
DDR raids... if step one is to watch a youtube video on how to win
Small Raid Caps
**The Worst Pet Peeve**
Competing with other guild members for limited raid spots
i want to echo everything said previously and expand on a few things.
Artificial Barriers - i dislike the Stat Cap Barriers too, even softcaps. if i can arrange my gear to give me 500Wisdom by not having any other stat boosts it should be my right to make that sacrifice.
Quest Journals - not only tracking every quest you find, but telling you the rewards too? what is my character on Auto-Douche? Sure i will go rescue that baby the Goblins stole... but what will you do for me?
Quest rewards that dont make sense! - It makes no sense for the farmer who just got his baby stolen by goblins to stand around waiting for me to come along when he has an "Uberblade of L33T" under his mattress. why didnt he just take the sword and go kill some goblins?
Leveling Speed - leveling should take as long as developing the next phase of content. it should be impossible to level to max in a week or a month, and then wait a year for updates.
Class Balancing - i despise when i have picked my class, spent several months leveling to cap, and then get completely screwed by balancing.
Lack of Fear - i hate when you have no fear of mobs in an MMO. monsters should give one pause. and require proper pulling technique. Leeroy Jenkins should not be able to pull the whole dungeon and survive.
SPAM - either by ingame mail or chat spam.
Gawd said:
Class Balancing - i despise when i have picked my class, spent several months leveling to cap, and then get completely screwed by balancing.
This. And the reason is because the devs know every last detail of every class, mob, ability, zone, etc and had years to figure out balance, and when the players find that imbalance in the first hour of release, they get punished by the devs for spotting the error. It's like a teacher putting a spelling mistake on the chalkboard, and when one of the students points it out they get detention.
Note to devs...if the stattistics commandos over at Elitist Jerks can provide six sigma analysis of every skill, every fight, every spell, etc, using nothing more than Excel and dedicated data gathering trials...within a week of any game/xpac release...why couldn't you do the same with giant computers, databases and a couple years?
Nerfs and balancing AFTER release drive me right up a wall because it's so freaking easy to come up with stats and analysis...SINCE THE DEVS OWN ALL THE DATA AND CAN SET UP ANY SCENARIO THEY LIKE.
The other balance that is a deal breaker for me is any game that half-arses either PVE or PVP to make the other one more "balanced." The last time I played WoW was when a PVP balancing issue required more PVE nerfs. I logged in, saw the message, got nerdraged, cancelled my account and will never resub.
It's simply unforgiveable to me. If you do not understand how it works, how it will affect the game, how it will interact with the playerbase, etc...DON'T PUT IT IN THE FREAKING GAME.
To be fair, Class balance/nerfs/boosts etc. are a very tough thing to get right the first time around, even through alpha/beta. There is no way the devs and alpha/beta players can use their class to the max in every situation possible while grouped with every single other class, all using their abilities, stacking buffs, using clickies together on every single type of mob in the game and under every type of situation.
Exploits will be found, stacking buffs/abilities will emerge as too powerful, invulns, weaknesses, debuffs all having unintended results etc. if we could run alpha/beta for a year or two and get tens of thousands of players in to play every class extensively then sure, we would have a much better chance at releasing the game with near perfect balance, then if we release an update or new content....ooops something didn't play nice and now X ability is beast against X mobs or when used with X buff...needs adjusting, small example but you get the picture ;)
We will do our absolute best to balance Pantheon as much as possible and rely heavily on you guys to help us find and report these imbalances during alpha/beta too but sometimes combinations of things slip through and require a balance adjustment, unfortunately not a lot can be done.
So while it is a mild annoyance, know that everything in our power will be done to launch with the most balanced build we have but understand that adjustments will most likely need to be made along the way.
@Kilsin - I wasn't so much hollering at VRI as I was ranting about nerfs and balancing in general. Every game does it, some more than others. But I have been one of the people submitting trials to the EJ spreadsheet commandos before, and I understand how even players can collect a ton of data in a quick hurry even when by and large, they are ignorant about specific formulae, the code governing hits/misses/mitigation/fizzle/etc, and still do a pretty bang up job informing the community in a hurry.
And the nerfs/balancing I am talking about are things like Charm, which every game ends up nerfing the crap out of because well, the devs apparently never thought anyone would ever use it, and holy cow, it works and is powerful. Whoops! EQ disabled charm in entire zones because well, that would be too useful, and we can't have that. AE hitting too many mobs, so we'll nerf it to hit only 4, because we never planned on people putting absurd chain aggro to their benefit.
Deciding that some buff needs reduced by 5% is not the rant I was on. Deciding that an ability is just too good, so let's just take it out...that's what drives the people crazy. Hello, manaburn, dire charm, DA, AE swarming, etc. WoW does it with every xpac when they steal your ability to fly and make you re-earn it. That sucks. If AE killing mobs with shield spikes was not intended because nobody ever considered a paladin pulling 20 mobs at once....then DON'T HAVE SHIELD SPIKES. Etc etc etc.
This brings up another thing I find constantly annoying: Abilities that don't work or work differently on boss mobs. Here, you get a stun and x other useful abilities to control mobs! But ohh, we forgot, they don't work on any boss.
Certainly some abilities may be too strong, but if these abilities are used for core mechanics of a class, then they shouldn't just stop working when you get to a boss. Reduce their effect, sure, but keep them working.
I agree with most said here (mainly skimmed through all the comments. Though there is one in paticular, Brad if you do sell it make it only 45% so you still have control, plus if it is something like SOE have a requirement that they have to have a certain number of Devs kept on it at all times, no carosel of Devs coming and going. Leaving only a very few to work on the game cause they needed most of them to go work on there own game.
1. Fast paced combat that requires no strategy and no down time - How are you supposed to make friends and enjoy the community if there is no time to chat?) (How does fighting an encounter for 4-10 seconds feel like a challenge?
2. No need for support/buffs/debuffers/real crowd control - When everything becomes a zerg, you miss out on other aspects of the game that people enjoy. You could tell a good Enchanter/bard in EQ1 from one that wasn't.
3. Lack of endgame content - a couple raids and 1 way dungeons (instanced) aren't going to hold someone's attention very long while new content gets pushed out). I never understood this problem. If you can get to max level in a couple weeks, you probably should have put a lot of your development into the endgame
4. Buffs are group only Why can't I buff random players or noobs if I want to? It was amazing running around as a lowbie with some higher level buffs because they actually mattered in combat
5. Balanced Classes (for PVP in a mostly PVE game) - Each class should have a useful role they play in a group. Given some of these roles, some classes should be more powerful than others if played in a PVP scenario. As a main tank in EQ1 dueling anyone of similar level in EQ would result in my death. Yet, when it came to raids and groups I was invaluable. Some classes should solo better than other classes given their skill sets. I'd love to see a game where soloing is possible but not nearly as efficient as grouping. Lets bring a community back.
6. Too few zones/dungeons for level ranges - Part of the magic of a MMO is exploring the world and finding places you enjoy. This isn't possible if there is 1 or 2 zones for lvl 10-15 combat. I liked the EQ1 approach of having several zones with similar level spreads to give players the chance to explore and find content they loved. I do understand the challenge years from now where if there is 7 lvl 10-15 zones, how do you find people lvl 10-15 to group with given the population of lowbies will be lower given the maturity of the game.
7. Lack of endgame character progression (AA points) - I really enjoyed the drive AA gave me to continue grouping after max level. An AA point generally didn't give too much strength to a person but made them feel like they kept strengthening their character even at max. I understand this becomes problematic years in if someone new plays and hits max level and has 0 AA when the veterans have 500. I suppose a way to help with this is give the "new" players a set amount of AA at max level. Perhaps gather an average number of AA points for a max level character and assign maybe 1/2 or 2/3s the value to new players to still keep them competitive enough to play but not so much as making the veteran feel like they wasted their time.
8. Trivial Death Penalty - Running back to my corpse in ghost form or just spawning with all my gear doesn't provide fear or hesitation of death. If there is no fear, then there is no excitement for a victory. I like harder corpse retrievals and XP loss. It makes support and good groups all that more valuable and hopefully inspires communication between group members. I don't know if a lot of people have time for the CR of early EQ1 days, but something where you lose xp and it's a challenge to get back to your corpse (or get back to your corpse to claim some xp back) should be hard.
9. Muddled class roles - I like the classic tank/healer/dps/support (if you are lucky) class roles of EQ1. You could play a shaman as DPS if you wanted but if you weren't buffing and tossing the occasional heal, you weren't playing your class to the full extent. It's hard for me to believe that with x classes available you can't find one that suits your play style without further watering down the generic class to specialize later.
10. Not enough raids - I enjoy raiding as I hit max level. It brings a sense of accomplishment and builds relationships with your fellow guild mates. I liked classic EQ1 raids where you could raid almost nightly if you had the people and wanted to raid. I'd love to find a game where there is a ton of raid content to go through. ToV in EQ1 was huge and a ton of fun to clear over a week's time.
My only Pet Peeves are immersion breaking costumes (I believe this has been mentioned above), and being railroaded into forced grouping. I sort of mentioned this before, on another post. I understand and accept I might have to sacrifice some cool aspects of the game if I do not do dungeons or raids. However, requiring them to unlock a basic function is railroading. My specific example was FF14 which requires dungeons for the main storyline, which allows you to unlock mounts.
Xonth said:
When devs say “selling cosmetic items does not hurt the game”
Class choices that mean nothing. Healers that can tank, Tanks that can heal…
Crafting that means nothing until max level
Player Housing… /duck
When devs say that players don’t like to play healers… Removing healer classes…
Upgrading every item every other day of playing…
Randomly generated equipment… aka Brute Hammer of Frost, Wise Hammer of Frost…
Vanity pets… Should be able to toggle seeing them
Holiday vanity equipment outside of the holiday… Seeming people in July with two candy cane swords and a pumpkin head.
Stats that have no value to your class… aka wisdom having no benefit to a str class
Important NPC (Epic Villans, gods, important people) not having their own graphic.
Abilities that go… Fire Ball 1, Fire Ball 2, Fire Ball 3… Should go Ember Ball, Flame Ball, Fire Ball, Inferno Ball, Lava Ball…
Having no use for money other than to repair… (Not a fan of buying things I did not kill)
Enemies that cant realistically defeat you… If a mob can’t kill you while you are afk …
Spell graphics that making fighting in groups like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evm_CeAU-rY
DDR raids... if step one is to watch a youtube video on how to win
Small Raid Caps
**The Worst Pet Peeve**
Competing with other guild members for limited raid spots
Yes ...yes and yes!!!!!!!!!!! I laughed at the candy canes and pumpkin heads. Just so immersion breaking, but what can be done about them? hehe Definitely want a toggle to eliminate seeing dead corpses and vanity pets (video lag in small areas..ie: portals)
Hieromonk said:
I think, in certain cities, if you ride a horse inside town, it gets confiscated by guards... and you have to pay a price at the stables when you leave, to get your mount back.
I don't think it should be allowed, was so annoying in Rift...you're in the tradeskill area, and a group rides their mounts in and parks there. Already laggy in there sometimes, making the looms and such disappear...made worse with all that extra load from a guild parking their horses and whatnot too.
Plus there were group quests that took place in there too...fighting mobs, and bosses. lol Keep it to an area where you're not interfering with everyone else.
DanF said:
My only Pet Peeves are immersion breaking costumes (I believe this has been mentioned above), and being railroaded into forced grouping. I sort of mentioned this before, on another post. I understand and accept I might have to sacrifice some cool aspects of the game if I do not do dungeons or raids. However, requiring them to unlock a basic function is railroading. My specific example was FF14 which requires dungeons for the main storyline, which allows you to unlock mounts.
I am not a raider, don't like raiding..don't have the raider mindset. Therefore forcing me to raid, is not going to make me a happy camper. If there is a story item required for my class, please don't force me to raid to get it...make it a crafting reward, or an exploring reward or something else.
Not everyone raids, or likes to raid.
Fullor said:
1. Fast paced combat that requires no strategy and no down time - How are you supposed to make friends and enjoy the community if there is no time to chat?) (How does fighting an encounter for 4-10 seconds feel like a challenge?
2. No need for support/buffs/debuffers/real crowd control - When everything becomes a zerg, you miss out on other aspects of the game that people enjoy. You could tell a good Enchanter/bard in EQ1 from one that wasn't.
3. Lack of endgame content - a couple raids and 1 way dungeons (instanced) aren't going to hold someone's attention very long while new content gets pushed out). I never understood this problem. If you can get to max level in a couple weeks, you probably should have put a lot of your development into the endgame
4. Buffs are group only Why can't I buff random players or noobs if I want to? It was amazing running around as a lowbie with some higher level buffs because they actually mattered in combat
5. Balanced Classes (for PVP in a mostly PVE game) - Each class should have a useful role they play in a group. Given some of these roles, some classes should be more powerful than others if played in a PVP scenario. As a main tank in EQ1 dueling anyone of similar level in EQ would result in my death. Yet, when it came to raids and groups I was invaluable. Some classes should solo better than other classes given their skill sets. I'd love to see a game where soloing is possible but not nearly as efficient as grouping. Lets bring a community back.
6. Too few zones/dungeons for level ranges - Part of the magic of a MMO is exploring the world and finding places you enjoy. This isn't possible if there is 1 or 2 zones for lvl 10-15 combat. I liked the EQ1 approach of having several zones with similar level spreads to give players the chance to explore and find content they loved. I do understand the challenge years from now where if there is 7 lvl 10-15 zones, how do you find people lvl 10-15 to group with given the population of lowbies will be lower given the maturity of the game.
7. Lack of endgame character progression (AA points) - I really enjoyed the drive AA gave me to continue grouping after max level. An AA point generally didn't give too much strength to a person but made them feel like they kept strengthening their character even at max. I understand this becomes problematic years in if someone new plays and hits max level and has 0 AA when the veterans have 500. I suppose a way to help with this is give the "new" players a set amount of AA at max level. Perhaps gather an average number of AA points for a max level character and assign maybe 1/2 or 2/3s the value to new players to still keep them competitive enough to play but not so much as making the veteran feel like they wasted their time.
8. Trivial Death Penalty - Running back to my corpse in ghost form or just spawning with all my gear doesn't provide fear or hesitation of death. If there is no fear, then there is no excitement for a victory. I like harder corpse retrievals and XP loss. It makes support and good groups all that more valuable and hopefully inspires communication between group members. I don't know if a lot of people have time for the CR of early EQ1 days, but something where you lose xp and it's a challenge to get back to your corpse (or get back to your corpse to claim some xp back) should be hard.
9. Muddled class roles - I like the classic tank/healer/dps/support (if you are lucky) class roles of EQ1. You could play a shaman as DPS if you wanted but if you weren't buffing and tossing the occasional heal, you weren't playing your class to the full extent. It's hard for me to believe that with x classes available you can't find one that suits your play style without further watering down the generic class to specialize later.
10. Not enough raids - I enjoy raiding as I hit max level. It brings a sense of accomplishment and builds relationships with your fellow guild mates. I liked classic EQ1 raids where you could raid almost nightly if you had the people and wanted to raid. I'd love to find a game where there is a ton of raid content to go through. ToV in EQ1 was huge and a ton of fun to clear over a week's time.
Everything you say here is pretty much how I feel too, except for the raiding. Last time I experienced a dungeon of any kind, that was in Rift, and it was a 30 second run from end to end...whup everyone logs out. Back to your server.
Me: What the hell was that I just did? *head spins*
Modern day dungeoning etc, just isn't what it used to be. Therefore I am abstaining! lol
I remember the 72 man raids in EQ....those were impressive.
Kilsin said:
To be fair, Class balance/nerfs/boosts etc. are a very tough thing to get right the first time around, even through alpha/beta. There is no way the devs and alpha/beta players can use their class to the max in every situation possible while grouped with every single other class, all using their abilities, stacking buffs, using clickies together on every single type of mob in the game and under every type of situation.
Exploits will be found, stacking buffs/abilities will emerge as too powerful, invulns, weaknesses, debuffs all having unintended results etc. if we could run alpha/beta for a year or two and get tens of thousands of players in to play every class extensively then sure, we would have a much better chance at releasing the game with near perfect balance, then if we release an update or new content....ooops something didn't play nice and now X ability is beast against X mobs or when used with X buff...needs adjusting, small example but you get the picture ;)
We will do our absolute best to balance Pantheon as much as possible and rely heavily on you guys to help us find and report these imbalances during alpha/beta too but sometimes combinations of things slip through and require a balance adjustment, unfortunately not a lot can be done.
So while it is a mild annoyance, know that everything in our power will be done to launch with the most balanced build we have but understand that adjustments will most likely need to be made along the way.
As I've stated before, and have witnessed over the years, there are those, that know perfectly well, that what they have been using and sharing with their friends ...is an exploit. Yet they don't report it, and it ends up releasing with the game.
Reason I mention this is...I am hoping those of us who do test, report it all, because we want this game to be the best it can possibly be, coming out of the gate. Of course some things get missed, but let's hope they weren't missed on purpose. :)
Now that I think about it, I really dislike it when low levels are given weapons and armor that *look* super duper über with particle effects, flames and smoke, glowing effects, etc. At the same time I hate it when high end top raid drops and such look like ordinary level 1 gear. If I have crap gear on, I want it to look like it. If I have years invested in collecting all the best gear, then I want to look like a real badazz ;) Because of this, I am torn how I feel about appearance slots because on one hand having a set of armor that is so terribly matching that it's an eye sore makes me want to stay in wolf form or such, but on the other hand I only want the best gear to have the best looks. Maybe some sort of armor dying or such would do it for me, or if there ends up being appearance slots, then have the equippable stuff be of appropriate looks for the level and rarity of gear that it is.
Corpse runs, I don't see why i need to run naked through mobs or a dungeon after i die. I believe Death should hurt and there be a harsh penalty but i have always seen Corpse runs as a point less time consuming exercise, surely we can come up with a better Death penalty in this day and age.
Jason said:
Now that I think about it, I really dislike it when low levels are given weapons and armor that *look* super duper über with particle effects, flames and smoke, glowing effects, etc. At the same time I hate it when high end top raid drops and such look like ordinary level 1 gear. If I have crap gear on, I want it to look like it. If I have years invested in collecting all the best gear, then I want to look like a real badazz ;) Because of this, I am torn how I feel about appearance slots because on one hand having a set of armor that is so terribly matching that it's an eye sore makes me want to stay in wolf form or such, but on the other hand I only want the best gear to have the best looks. Maybe some sort of armor dying or such would do it for me, or if there ends up being appearance slots, then have the equippable stuff be of appropriate looks for the level and rarity of gear that it is.
On the flipside, weapons (equipment in general) must not look unrealistic. Think of some 2h swords in modern (asian based) games for example...which look so huge that the character can barely hold them...how can such an item be carried when its not used?
Keep the items realistic please.
Jason said:
Now that I think about it, I really dislike it when low levels are given weapons and armor that *look* super duper über with particle effects, flames and smoke, glowing effects, etc. At the same time I hate it when high end top raid drops and such look like ordinary level 1 gear. If I have crap gear on, I want it to look like it. If I have years invested in collecting all the best gear, then I want to look like a real badazz ;) Because of this, I am torn how I feel about appearance slots because on one hand having a set of armor that is so terribly matching that it's an eye sore makes me want to stay in wolf form or such, but on the other hand I only want the best gear to have the best looks. Maybe some sort of armor dying or such would do it for me, or if there ends up being appearance slots, then have the equippable stuff be of appropriate looks for the level and rarity of gear that it is.
In response to the appearance slots....
Do it like Guild wars 2 did at first, Non combat clothes can only be worn in cities. Put in a toggle so if you want to wear town clothes soon as you enter town you switch to your town clothes, if not then you wont. No matter what way they go with appearance slots keep it real...No dead fish as swords or rabbit ears as helms or Tux wearing Charr....
CanadinaXegony said:
Kilsin said:
To be fair, Class balance/nerfs/boosts etc. are a very tough thing to get right the first time around, even through alpha/beta. There is no way the devs and alpha/beta players can use their class to the max in every situation possible while grouped with every single other class, all using their abilities, stacking buffs, using clickies together on every single type of mob in the game and under every type of situation.
Exploits will be found, stacking buffs/abilities will emerge as too powerful, invulns, weaknesses, debuffs all having unintended results etc. if we could run alpha/beta for a year or two and get tens of thousands of players in to play every class extensively then sure, we would have a much better chance at releasing the game with near perfect balance, then if we release an update or new content....ooops something didn't play nice and now X ability is beast against X mobs or when used with X buff...needs adjusting, small example but you get the picture ;)
We will do our absolute best to balance Pantheon as much as possible and rely heavily on you guys to help us find and report these imbalances during alpha/beta too but sometimes combinations of things slip through and require a balance adjustment, unfortunately not a lot can be done.
So while it is a mild annoyance, know that everything in our power will be done to launch with the most balanced build we have but understand that adjustments will most likely need to be made along the way.
As I've stated before, and have witnessed over the years, there are those, that know perfectly well, that what they have been using and sharing with their friends ...is an exploit. Yet they don't report it, and it ends up releasing with the game.
Reason I mention this is...I am hoping those of us who do test, report it all, because we want this game to be the best it can possibly be, coming out of the gate. Of course some things get missed, but let's hope they weren't missed on purpose. :)
ok, its come to my attention that i maybe could have worded myself a bit better. its not so much re-balancing that ticks me off as the inevitable screwing that comes with it. i will give an example:
Rangers have an ability that forces crits for 10secs. its reusable every minute. it also heals the caster for 50% of his hp. (yes obviously broken)
some people on the forums cry about the rangers uberness
skill gets revamped now it only forces crits for 3secs. and is only useable once per hour. (obvious overcompensation)
when rebalancing devs always go overboard. after another 6 months that ability above will get buffed agian to forced crits for 8 secs useable every 3 mins. why couldnt the nerfing have just been done in smaller increments in the first place? take away the healing first, then maybe increase the cooldown after a few weeks of testing and so on and soforth.
so what i am saying is if you gotta nerf, then you gotta nerf. but try just using the nerf exacto knife instead of wildly swinging the nerf bat.
Gawd said:
CanadinaXegony said:
Kilsin said:
To be fair, Class balance/nerfs/boosts etc. are a very tough thing to get right the first time around, even through alpha/beta. There is no way the devs and alpha/beta players can use their class to the max in every situation possible while grouped with every single other class, all using their abilities, stacking buffs, using clickies together on every single type of mob in the game and under every type of situation.
Exploits will be found, stacking buffs/abilities will emerge as too powerful, invulns, weaknesses, debuffs all having unintended results etc. if we could run alpha/beta for a year or two and get tens of thousands of players in to play every class extensively then sure, we would have a much better chance at releasing the game with near perfect balance, then if we release an update or new content....ooops something didn't play nice and now X ability is beast against X mobs or when used with X buff...needs adjusting, small example but you get the picture ;)
We will do our absolute best to balance Pantheon as much as possible and rely heavily on you guys to help us find and report these imbalances during alpha/beta too but sometimes combinations of things slip through and require a balance adjustment, unfortunately not a lot can be done.
So while it is a mild annoyance, know that everything in our power will be done to launch with the most balanced build we have but understand that adjustments will most likely need to be made along the way.
As I've stated before, and have witnessed over the years, there are those, that know perfectly well, that what they have been using and sharing with their friends ...is an exploit. Yet they don't report it, and it ends up releasing with the game.
Reason I mention this is...I am hoping those of us who do test, report it all, because we want this game to be the best it can possibly be, coming out of the gate. Of course some things get missed, but let's hope they weren't missed on purpose. :)
ok, its come to my attention that i maybe could have worded myself a bit better. its not so much re-balancing that ticks me off as the inevitable screwing that comes with it. i will give an example:
Rangers have an ability that forces crits for 10secs. its reusable every minute. it also heals the caster for 50% of his hp. (yes obviously broken)
some people on the forums cry about the rangers uberness
skill gets revamped now it only forces crits for 3secs. and is only useable once per hour. (obvious overcompensation)
when rebalancing devs always go overboard. after another 6 months that ability above will get buffed agian to forced crits for 8 secs useable every 3 mins. why couldnt the nerfing have just been done in smaller increments in the first place? take away the healing first, then maybe increase the cooldown after a few weeks of testing and so on and soforth.
so what i am saying is if you gotta nerf, then you gotta nerf. but try just using the nerf exacto knife instead of wildly swinging the nerf bat.
I understand what you are saying mate, I played a Rogue in VG, that should speak volumes! :(
There are a ton of equations, stats, multiplications, calculations, variables from base stats, multiplying stats, buffs stats, gear/weapon stats etc that all factor into this, it is extremely hard to get it spot on, even with testing but I can promise you that we will try our very best to get it right the first time but if we don't, please don't hold it against us, we will correct any issues as soon as humanly possible, sometimes these things need to go live and be used by the playerbase to gather valuable data with all those variables in play so we can re-tweak it with better information but again, we can't promise to be spot on first time but we promise we will do our best! :)