Thanks for your feedback everyone :)
We may have actually hit a bump in the road with this and I have to dig deeper and check to see if the website will actually let us do this specific permission change. It may be that it opens up the whole website except the Apprentice Dev or VIP forums, which would only include class, race, lore etc. too which isn't a very big deal.
Leave it with me and I will sort something out, get more info and post back here with my findings.
Boon said:
Can we open it up, there needs to be those who want to play the game, to have some say, while not supporters, I feel the more ideals bouncing off of players who will play the game hopefully will be a much better gauge than just those with some extra coin in their pockets to play for the games development.
Also can we setup the forums a bit differently (example http://forums.digitalpeleton.com/forumdisplay.php?fid=14 ) Use something like this under the Development Discussion section....
While is this not a complete list in any stretch, it will help break down posts in to the right areas of discussion.
I like that type of layout a lot too, it is similar to the old EQ/VG boards and I think a lot of people feel right at home on them. I have run it by Brad and he is not opposed to moving to forums like that for alpha/beta/launch but we would need to discuss it more internally and find the right person to help us set it up, so VRI had full control and ownership of them at all times.
But we are not opposed to the idea of a more user friendly forum switch later on, these boards are designed to be developer board and Brad and the team decided early on that they wanted to include supporters in this process, so it has it's issues but the idea behind it was commendable. :)
Kilsin said:
Thanks for your feedback everyone :)
We may have actually hit a bump in the road with this and I have to dig deeper and check to see if the website will actually let us do this specific permission change. It may be that it opens up the whole website except the Apprentice Dev or VIP forums, which would only include class, race, lore etc. too which isn't a very big deal.
Leave it with me and I will sort something out, get more info and post back here with my findings.
I may be crazy but when I signed up for a free forum I could read all the same material I can now. I just could not comment. I thought in general that was a fine compromise, if you don't want to participate at this stage you could still get the same information just not have the same back and forth. I made a choice that I would like to be able to interact with the devs and the rest of the community so I did the lowest cost option.
I guess when it comes down to it, for me I feel at this point in the game development when there is still so much up in the air that its not necessary to allow everyone to be able to post. We are often debating things that are far away from being implemented (or my impression is that) and that is fine because we all "have skin in the game", if someone is not invested that does not mean they can't contribute just that when the contribute in the development cycle might be a little later. In my mind I think an open forum set up would be an welcome addition when alpha testing begins. At this point a lot of the primary components of the game will be installed and a larger group of people weighing in on the specific qualities and strengths would be more constructive. Right now the community is small and pushing more general ideas, that quiet frankly, are not going to have many more sides to them than this community can already represent.
cram9030 said:
Kilsin said:
Thanks for your feedback everyone :)
We may have actually hit a bump in the road with this and I have to dig deeper and check to see if the website will actually let us do this specific permission change. It may be that it opens up the whole website except the Apprentice Dev or VIP forums, which would only include class, race, lore etc. too which isn't a very big deal.
Leave it with me and I will sort something out, get more info and post back here with my findings.I may be crazy but when I signed up for a free forum I could read all the same material I can now. I just could not comment. I thought in general that was a fine compromise, if you don't want to participate at this stage you could still get the same information just not have the same back and forth. I made a choice that I would like to be able to interact with the devs and the rest of the community so I did the lowest cost option.
I guess when it comes down to it, for me I feel at this point in the game development when there is still so much up in the air that its not necessary to allow everyone to be able to post. We are often debating things that are far away from being implemented (or my impression is that) and that is fine because we all "have skin in the game", if someone is not invested that does not mean they can't contribute just that when the contribute in the development cycle might be a little later. In my mind I think an open forum set up would be an welcome addition when alpha testing begins. At this point a lot of the primary components of the game will be installed and a larger group of people weighing in on the specific qualities and strengths would be more constructive. Right now the community is small and pushing more general ideas, that quiet frankly, are not going to have many more sides to them than this community can already represent.
That is good feedback Cram, thanks mate.
Kilsin said:
Hieromonk said:
I don't think they should have access to general forums, but their own "Visitors Forums"...
Non-paying members, should not be riding on the coattails of paying members, or their forums. Separate space for them to converse is a great idea though. Just not in general conversations pertaining to core circumstances we paying members are defining/discussing.
This is a misconception mate.
No one is riding anyones "coat tails" the Apprentice Developers have their own sub forum for being orange name subscribers and that will not change. The VIP members have their own sub forum and that will not change, we are just wanting to give a bit more access to more people but the choice is completey up to the community.
Vote no and if the majority vote is no at the end, then we won;t change anything.
I agree, & was not my point.
I think one single "Visitor Forum" is enough for the many people who wish to voice opinions from the way-side. When these same people know their opinion counts for something, they will drop the $25 to make themselves heard more clearly on the Member's Forums. I for one, joined, because I couldn't be heard... and found that oddly refreshing knowing that on the other side, are community members who 100% care.
This game should keep it's exclusive status... it will make people want it moAr.
Hieromonk said:
Kilsin said:
Hieromonk said:
I don't think they should have access to general forums, but their own "Visitors Forums"...
Non-paying members, should not be riding on the coattails of paying members, or their forums. Separate space for them to converse is a great idea though. Just not in general conversations pertaining to core circumstances we paying members are defining/discussing.
This is a misconception mate.
No one is riding anyones "coat tails" the Apprentice Developers have their own sub forum for being orange name subscribers and that will not change. The VIP members have their own sub forum and that will not change, we are just wanting to give a bit more access to more people but the choice is completey up to the community.
Vote no and if the majority vote is no at the end, then we won;t change anything.
I agree, & was not my point.
I think one single "Visitor Forum" is enough for the many people who wish to voice opinions from the way-side. When these same people know their opinion counts for something, they will drop the $25 to make themselves heard more clearly on the Member's Forums. I for one, joined, because I couldn't be heard... and found that oddly refreshing knowing that on the other side, are community members who 100% care.
This game should keep it's exclusive status... it will make people want it moAr.
While I agree about paying members do show dedication and help contribute to the game, we may not be able to open a single sub forum just for free members as the website is limiting us in a few ways, so we are currently reviewing this and seeing what we can do to overcome it. This may not even be an option and we may have to discuss what to do further.
In the meantime we still want everyones constructive feedback on the subject :)
Hieromonk said:
Kilsin said:
Hieromonk said:
I don't think they should have access to general forums, but their own "Visitors Forums"...
Non-paying members, should not be riding on the coattails of paying members, or their forums. Separate space for them to converse is a great idea though. Just not in general conversations pertaining to core circumstances we paying members are defining/discussing.
This is a misconception mate.
No one is riding anyones "coat tails" the Apprentice Developers have their own sub forum for being orange name subscribers and that will not change. The VIP members have their own sub forum and that will not change, we are just wanting to give a bit more access to more people but the choice is completey up to the community.
Vote no and if the majority vote is no at the end, then we won;t change anything.
I agree, & was not my point.
I think one single "Visitor Forum" is enough for the many people who wish to voice opinions from the way-side. When these same people know their opinion counts for something, they will drop the $25 to make themselves heard more clearly on the Member's Forums. I for one, joined, because I couldn't be heard... and found that oddly refreshing knowing that on the other side, are community members who 100% care.
This game should keep it's exclusive status... it will make people want it moAr.
I feel I have contributed to these forums in a number of ways since being able to post. But, I also feel there would be enough of the new free accounts which would contribute nothing but chaos and trouble. I know this site is tedious, at best, to change or control. So, while I would miss sharing my thoughts with the community, I would give up my right to post if the fix to the bumps Kilsin mentioned require all free accounts be in one security format. I don't know, but that might be the only fix.
I plan on backing Pantheon, but now is not the time for me to put cash towards it.
With the Alpha testing coming upon us why not keep this site and it's forums for the closed Alpha/beta testing and go to a more user friendly forum for general use and the wider public free accounts.
As was stated this site is more for the Devs and even if you managed to add free accounts and lock them to a sub forum here, these forums turn very messy as they are hard to use and once you let people lose who don't know how to use it, all hell will break lose in here.
This is all valuable feedback, if we don't get a large majority vote winning, we will not act on this. We do not want to interrupt these boards, just add quality discussion to them from more supporters. If you guys don;t want that, let us know and cast your vote. If you are not sure, change it to "Other".
just some of my experience ( not really worth much ) with the games i had some involvement with during beta and launch.
SWTOR - Did Some full closed beta testing towards the end of beta
ESO - Closed beta weekend testing ( only opened it up for us on designated weekends ) was more of a stress tests then beta testing
Wildstar - Full closed beta tester
ESO - Didn't have any official public Forums at all until release from memory, left it all to Fan sites, we got access to the beta forums during the stress test then cut us off when it finished
Wildstar - pretty much same as ESO no public forum until launch everything was done in closed beta Forums.
SWTOR - Had official public Forums before release, There was no more wretched hive of scum and villainy then those forums.
Zandil said:
just some of my experience ( not really worth much ) with the games i had some involvement with during beta and launch.
SWTOR - Did Some full closed beta testing towards the end of beta
ESO - Closed beta weekend testing ( only opened it up for us on designated weekends ) was more of a stress tests then beta testing
Wildstar - Full closed beta tester
ESO - Didn't have any official public Forums at all until release from memory, left it all to Fan sites, we got access to the beta forums during the stress test then cut us off when it finished
Wildstar - pretty much same as ESO no public forum until launch everything was done in closed beta Forums.
SWTOR - Had official public Forums before release, There was no more wretched hive of scum and villainy then those forums.
Testing/Alpha and Beta are completely different mate and they will be handled differently. This is just for the General forums and pretty much anything except Apprentice Devs and VIP sub forums.
I think in the end, you will find that this sight/forum does allow for dynamic flagging of forums. (most do)
But as mentioned, I think a closed forum is working fine currently & people who don't want to contribute a few bucks to say their peace, really don't belong here. (EDIT: As these are pre-alpha forums, with a core community of kickstarters/pledge members.) This is a premium style game, nothing Fisher Price about Pantheon. Put your money where your mouth is. This game is for the adult mind.
But I do think you need to work on the front page of this site, & the forums need to be restructured a tad. Mostly fiddling with the forum flags to get things proper and logical throughout. But please, the Pantheon Store needs to be nixed quickly and something more simple like the wiki page, in it's place.
I think Visionary Realms will find a lot more people subbing to a mature oldschool game, once you get rid of the goofy childish icons for Pledge levels, etc. When using the store, I felt like I was about to buy-in to some cheesy P2W game, instead of a life-long account for an oldschool MMO. I honestly think that should be one of the first things you guys do in 2015, is clean up the Pantheon Shop. Make it easier to throw you cash... ;]
I am not even sure how to upgrade my pledge.
Kilsin said:
Zandil said:
just some of my experience ( not really worth much ) with the games i had some involvement with during beta and launch.
SWTOR - Did Some full closed beta testing towards the end of beta
ESO - Closed beta weekend testing ( only opened it up for us on designated weekends ) was more of a stress tests then beta testing
Wildstar - Full closed beta tester
ESO - Didn't have any official public Forums at all until release from memory, left it all to Fan sites, we got access to the beta forums during the stress test then cut us off when it finished
Wildstar - pretty much same as ESO no public forum until launch everything was done in closed beta Forums.
SWTOR - Had official public Forums before release, There was no more wretched hive of scum and villainy then those forums.
Testing/Alpha and Beta are completely different mate and they will be handled differently. This is just for the General forums and pretty much anything except Apprentice Devs and VIP sub forums.
I do understand that but i guess the point was that 2/3 never had any public forums at all until the game was released, seems to be a bit of a trend to keep everything locked down so you can control the media output. I don't agree with it but it did work well for them at the time.
Hieromonk said:
I think in the end, you will find that this sight/forum does allow for dynamic flagging of forums. (most do)
But as mentioned, I think a closed forum is working fine currently & people who don't want to contribute a few bucks to say their peace, really don't belong here. This is a premium style game, nothing Fisher Price about Pantheon. Put your money where your mouth is. This game is for the adult mind.
But I do think you need to work on the front page of this site, & the forums need to be restructured a tad. Mostly fiddling with the forum flags to get things proper and logical throughout. But please, the Pantheon Store needs to be nixed quickly and something more simple like the wiki page, in it's place.
I think Visionary Realms will find a lot more people subbing to a mature oldschool game, once you get rid of the goofy childish icons for Pledge levels, etc. When using the store, I felt like I was about to buy-in to some cheesy P2W game, instead of a life-long account for an oldschool MMO. I honestly think that should be one of the first things you guys do in 2015, is clean up the Pantheon Shop. Make it easier to throw you cash... ;]
I am not even sure how to upgrade my pledge.
Thanks for the feedback mate, it is appreciated and we are working to fix the site, it is a lot more difficult than people think, it is not a straightforward toggle option, it has been setup in a more complicated way and needs fixing by someone with experience in that field, we are continuing to make tweaks while we look for someone with skill in that area to join the team.
To upgrade your pledge simply let your subscription build up to the amount required or buy an upgrade pack from the shop for the amount required to get you to the level you want.
If you have any issues please PM me and I will help in anyway I can.
Zandil said:
Kilsin said:
Zandil said:
just some of my experience ( not really worth much ) with the games i had some involvement with during beta and launch.
SWTOR - Did Some full closed beta testing towards the end of beta
ESO - Closed beta weekend testing ( only opened it up for us on designated weekends ) was more of a stress tests then beta testing
Wildstar - Full closed beta tester
ESO - Didn't have any official public Forums at all until release from memory, left it all to Fan sites, we got access to the beta forums during the stress test then cut us off when it finished
Wildstar - pretty much same as ESO no public forum until launch everything was done in closed beta Forums.
SWTOR - Had official public Forums before release, There was no more wretched hive of scum and villainy then those forums.
Testing/Alpha and Beta are completely different mate and they will be handled differently. This is just for the General forums and pretty much anything except Apprentice Devs and VIP sub forums.
I do understand that but i guess the point was that 2/3 never had any public forums at all until the game was released, seems to be a bit of a trend to keep everything locked down so you can control the media output. I don't agree with it but it did work well for them at the time.
Yeah we are doing things a little differently due to being a small crowd funded team, the idea in the beginning was to try something different and have these developer forums allow the community to pay for the privilege to help give input to build this game and while that is still for the most part true, unforeseeable changes have been made, teams have been switched around etc. so there have been a few bumps in the road.
I have mentioned to the team about a normal style game forums (ala EQ/VG boards) for the community to discuss things freely and keep these boards as a paid developer communication platform which is why we are testing the waters and asking for feedback on this topic.
Again, nothing is final, the subs and these boards will remain in place for all paying members and we will wait and see how this poll and feedback comes along over the next week or so before we make a decision and speak to the community further but this is something I am watching closely and we all want the best for the game and the community.
Hieromonk said:
Thank you Kilsin ...!
You're Welcome mate :)
Kilsin said:
Thanks for your feedback everyone :)
We may have actually hit a bump in the road with this and I have to dig deeper and check to see if the website will actually let us do this specific permission change. It may be that it opens up the whole website except the Apprentice Dev or VIP forums, which would only include class, race, lore etc. too which isn't a very big deal.
Leave it with me and I will sort something out, get more info and post back here with my findings.
I think I was told there were limitations, an either or situation, in regards to permissions, but perhaps that can be remedied with the current talent on the team. :) I think the more the merrier, and those that insist on "acting out" dealt with according to site rules.
Not everyone can afford to fork over money these days, but on the other hand, having the site a little more welcoming will do something toward the overall image of the project. :) And possibly encourage more to sign on and promote Pantheon. :)
Cana
Kilsin said:
Hieromonk said:
I think in the end, you will find that this sight/forum does allow for dynamic flagging of forums. (most do)
But as mentioned, I think a closed forum is working fine currently & people who don't want to contribute a few bucks to say their peace, really don't belong here. This is a premium style game, nothing Fisher Price about Pantheon. Put your money where your mouth is. This game is for the adult mind.
But I do think you need to work on the front page of this site, & the forums need to be restructured a tad. Mostly fiddling with the forum flags to get things proper and logical throughout. But please, the Pantheon Store needs to be nixed quickly and something more simple like the wiki page, in it's place.
I think Visionary Realms will find a lot more people subbing to a mature oldschool game, once you get rid of the goofy childish icons for Pledge levels, etc. When using the store, I felt like I was about to buy-in to some cheesy P2W game, instead of a life-long account for an oldschool MMO. I honestly think that should be one of the first things you guys do in 2015, is clean up the Pantheon Shop. Make it easier to throw you cash... ;]
I am not even sure how to upgrade my pledge.
Thanks for the feedback mate, it is appreciated and we are working to fix the site, it is a lot more difficult than people think, it is not a straightforward toggle option, it has been setup in a more complicated way and needs fixing by someone with experience in that field, we are continuing to make tweaks while we look for someone with skill in that area to join the team.
To upgrade your pledge simply let your subscription build up to the amount required or buy an upgrade pack from the shop for the amount required to get you to the level you want.
If you have any issues please PM me and I will help in anyway I can.
You able to get hold of Wryshu (Tom) he could probably work out some of that for you.
Maric said:
I vote 'No' but I'm torn. I voted no because of the venom constantly spewed whenever Pantheon is highlighted on an MMO news website . Most recently Massively Comments. There is a huge contingent of people out for Brad's blood. I'm afraid of that attitude overwhelming the Forum, and afraid Moderators would just not be able to control it. I hope I'm wrong. It would be nice to grow the Pantheon fan base. Maybe the trolls would get bored quickly and leave? Anyway good luck with whatever decision is made.
Eh there's a few bad eggs, I've witnessed them, but I think there's a lot of hot air involved. Some troll just because they can. It's really not as bad as it used to be. :)
Regardless, until this game is nearing beta, the community just doesn't need outside voices. I think a closed forum for the next 10 months will be a great thing for Visionary Realms & the Pantheon community.
So once the community opens up to the public, there will be well established core ideology and members who support it.
Kilsin said:
I have mentioned to the team about a normal style game forums (ala EQ/VG boards) for the community to discuss things freely and keep these boards as a paid developer communication platform which is why we are testing the waters and asking for feedback on this topic.
I think I like this idea the best. My feeling is it's just too early to open these forums up to the general public. The game is in pre-alpha. If the team has the resources to manage two separate forums, with the intention of merging the two camps at a specific point down the road, then my vote would be for this. Otherwise my vote is still with "allow everyone into the General Discussion" and nowhere else (assuming the site's functionality allows for this).
Kilsin said:
Zandil said:
Kilsin said:
Zandil said:
just some of my experience ( not really worth much ) with the games i had some involvement with during beta and launch.
SWTOR - Did Some full closed beta testing towards the end of beta
ESO - Closed beta weekend testing ( only opened it up for us on designated weekends ) was more of a stress tests then beta testing
Wildstar - Full closed beta tester
ESO - Didn't have any official public Forums at all until release from memory, left it all to Fan sites, we got access to the beta forums during the stress test then cut us off when it finished
Wildstar - pretty much same as ESO no public forum until launch everything was done in closed beta Forums.
SWTOR - Had official public Forums before release, There was no more wretched hive of scum and villainy then those forums.
Yeah we are doing things a little differently due to being a small crowd funded team, the idea in the beginning was to try something different and have these developer forums allow the community to pay for the privilege to help give input to build this game and while that is still for the most part true, unforeseeable changes have been made, teams have been switched around etc. so there have been a few bumps in the road.
I have mentioned to the team about a normal style game forums (ala EQ/VG boards) for the community to discuss things freely and keep these boards as a paid developer communication platform which is why we are testing the waters and asking for feedback on this topic.
Again, nothing is final, the subs and these boards will remain in place for all paying members and we will wait and see how this poll and feedback comes along over the next week or so before we make a decision and speak to the community further but this is something I am watching closely and we all want the best for the game and the community.
I know nothing about websites but is it possible to create a new one, and keep that for the general public, their fan fiction, discussions about Pantheon and so on, and somehow link that to this one or is that not a feasible option due to costs and maintenance? I know that I was told previously that certain functions and permissions for this site have an either or option, which doesn't serve some of the purposes of this current team.