justdrop said: This comment is disingenuous when the world is one zone, the mobs are creep, the majority of classes and functionality is non-existent, and a timer is applied for exploration. It's pieces at best.
This comment is disingenuous when the one zone, the mobs, the class abilities, the npc's, the gear, the loot, and all functionality except the timer is the same as PA testers have been testing since long before 247 was every mentioned. It was Pantheon the MMO back then, it still is.
justdrop said:
Prevenge said:
Taking the world of Pantheon, the crafting of Pantheon, the areas/quests of Pantheon, mobs of Pantheon, classes/abilities/races of Pantheon and slapping a 2 hour timer with a thrown together extraction skin on top of it, does sound very much like it's still Pantheon.
This comment is disingenuous when the world is one zone, the mobs are creep, the majority of classes and functionality is non-existent, and a timer is applied for exploration. It's pieces at best.
chenzeme said:
The essence of Pantheon can still be in 247. The extraction game is just a smaller, tightly controlled version of the Pantheon world, if you like and I can see this quite easily. It will still contain the same rules engine of Terminus and will give a similar feeling that the full game will have. I can see that it could spawn instances of what VR need testing at any given time. I can also see it as a means of getting more people involved in the game and not having them being board because the entire world content hasn't been crafted yet. I can also see it allowing for more tightly controlled data gathering.
VR have said that they cannot create enough content for the current testing area to keep testers from out-levelling it; it is also too open to get meaningful data from; players complete what is available and then stop testing. Given that, I totally understand the 247 concept. Monetarising it, in my opinion, is questionable, but the concept of 247 as a testing tool, is sound I feel.
VR's goals may have well shifted slightly, but the underlying direction (as far as I can tell) is still to give us the world of Terminus, eventually. The use of "disingenuous" is banded around way too much and is just a softer, less aggressive way of saying someone is lying, which, mostly, people are not. Generally people are not trying to deceive and are just expressing views. Agree or not, but I think people should steer away from calling others liars, even if they are doing so, softly.
Whether you agree or disagree with the concept, it is how VR are going forward. It may work, it may not. We will find out and then those on the correct side or predication can strut around with self import. Until we know for sure, lets keep supporting. If you cant, then what is the point of continually saying "we are doomed!"? There is none. Those point have been made, a lot, I myself have made some too. But now, we have to believe in the direction change and hope it is just a short cut to a bigger world for us all.
Prevenge said:
Also this thread is about trying to come up with ways/ideas that might help. If you can think of something helpful, please post it. There's plenty of posts to complain about 247 and the state the game is currently in, you can use one of those for any further negative comments.
justdrop said:
Get to alpha. Period. If you get to alpha and get people who've been dying for the MMO into it, that will alleviate a lot of the frustration from people who've been here for the project with nothing to show for it so far.
Prevenge said:
Negativity just to be negative, isn't going to help anything.
Sweety said:
So ridiculous that a volunteer moderator can just edit posts he disagree with and call them off topic or disingenuous because he has a different opinion. Moderators should be 100% neutral. Not a Kool-aid drinking fanboy. Read this quick because I’m betting he deletes this post too.
I believe the problem we're heading towards if not at already is that everything that could be said about making an MMO like this is known or has been said many times. Feedback isn't going to help bridge the divide of what is in the pipeline and on to Alpha, Beta and Launch. Feedback given can be useful but in all honesty I wouldn't expect a company to have an idea of what they're doing, allocate resources and then hear feedback and pivot the project more towards that over and over and over again. It's too costly, you have to commit to something at some point and whatever feedback you get is feedback you get. It will be ignored not out of spite or incompetence or anything like that, but out of sheer necessity.
I think having a community to provide feedback is good in terms of a crowd sourced project like this. I would just temper any expectations that it would be a saving grace if things are bleak.
Atarius said:
I believe the problem we're heading towards if not at already is that everything that could be said about making an MMO like this is known or has been said many times. Feedback isn't going to help bridge the divide of what is in the pipeline and on to Alpha, Beta and Launch. Feedback given can be useful but in all honesty I wouldn't expect a company to have an idea of what they're doing, allocate resources and then hear feedback and pivot the project more towards that over and over and over again. It's too costly, you have to commit to something at some point and whatever feedback you get is feedback you get. It will be ignored not out of spite or incompetence or anything like that, but out of sheer necessity.
I think having a community to provide feedback is good in terms of a crowd sourced project like this. I would just temper any expectations that it would be a saving grace if things are bleak.
justdrop said: Point to anything false in the statement. Notice how mine didn't have to move the goalposts and you had to make it about PA testing? That right there is the difference between what you think and what Pantheon has been slated to be. It might be everything you've experienced so far, but it's not the product we've been advertised. One month, 3 weeks.
dis·in·gen·u·ous
Sweety said: So ridiculous that a volunteer moderator can just edit posts he disagree with and call them off topic or disingenuous because he has a different opinion. Moderators should be 100% neutral. Not a Kool-aid drinking fanboy. Read this quick because I’m betting he deletes this post too.
Our moderators are community members who have their own thoughts and opinions. They enforce the rules that we have laid out as a company and are expected to also follow those rules. We don't expect them to stop being members of the community.
Jothany said:If what I typed was false, then I would be disingenuous. If anything, I'm showing my knowledge of what 247 is. By not admitting to the things that 247 lacks and being overwhelmingly positive, that is a disingenuous take on the situation. My points are fair critiques about what 247 is compared to the projected description about what Pantheon is supposed to be. I know you can make the connection if you try hard enough. Alas, we are very off-topic at this point so unless you can point to anything I said being untrue, I'll go back to pointing out where things are.justdrop said: Point to anything false in the statement. Notice how mine didn't have to move the goalposts and you had to make it about PA testing? That right there is the difference between what you think and what Pantheon has been slated to be. It might be everything you've experienced so far, but it's not the product we've been advertised. One month, 3 weeks.Dictionarydis·in·gen·u·ousDefinitions from Oxford Languagesnot candid or sincere, typically by pretending that one knows less about something than one really does."he was being somewhat disingenuous as well as cynical"Point to where I said your statement was false. Notice how I didn't have to move the goalposts and you had to make it about being false instead of disingenuous. Right there is the difference between what you are doing and what you claim to be doing.
Sweety said: Having your own thoughts and opinions is a lot different than literally editing someone’s post. That’s controlling my thoughts and opinions. That’s closer to communism than a community.
If you have any issues with a mod action, you are welcome to DM me with details.
The only way Pantheon survives is significant external funding and I truly hope they get it.
What I don't agree with is trying to sell a cheap/under development extraction game to a different audience which they never truly plan to expand upon and if they do then this is completely against what original backers wanted. This team cannot create and run a single game as it stands never mind two.
At the minute it is just for testing and I hope it stays that way. Trying to scrape together more money from the community isn't the answer at this point. It has been attempted and failed.
Adrenicus said:The only way Pantheon survives is significant external funding and I truly hope they get it.
What I don't agree with is trying to sell a cheap/under development extraction game to a different audience which they never truly plan to expand upon and if they do then this is completely against what original backers wanted. This team cannot create and run a single game as it stands never mind two.
At the minute it is just for testing and I hope it stays that way. Trying to scrape together more money from the community isn't the answer at this point. It has been attempted and failed.
I see it this way: If, after 9 year and 8 months that already had 2 demos created to attract investors (Project Faerthale and Fortress DeViare(sp) and the countless dev streams, a major investment has not materialized why should that change? Because of an art style change? Because of this 247 extraction mode? Joppa (or Ben) clearly said that publishers want games with micro-transactions because they see the revenue those generate and VR has spoken at length about how they dont want that. Without changing directions and including such things I do not see the financial situation changing.
Atarius said:There's only one positive idea that will work.
Go back to what they had 5 years ago, launch alpha, proceed to completion. Everything else is delusional at best, there is no magical thinking that will get the toothpaste back into the tube.
They can't do that because none of what was there 5 years ago exists. Deleted..gone. It would take years to undo it all and rebuild that existed 5 years ago.
Vandraad said:Atarius said:There's only one positive idea that will work.
Go back to what they had 5 years ago, launch alpha, proceed to completion. Everything else is delusional at best, there is no magical thinking that will get the toothpaste back into the tube.
They can't do that because none of what was there 5 years ago exists. Deleted..gone. It would take years to undo it all and rebuild that existed 5 years ago.
Yep, that's why they ultimately should shut it down, hence the new game mode.