Hey,
I've essentialy copy-pasted this stuff from Discord #pantheon-only channel.
Some questions not directly related to 247 are included as well because they speak to the progress of the game in general.
If you feel like I missed something, a correction needs to be made or you want your name taken out from the question just pm me.
Proxy
Do think these changes [to the combat system] were needed to help make the 247 game mode interesting? Or do you think its just natural progression of the combat being developed?
Joppa
They're needed to make our combat experience in general more interesting. These are things we've long planned for the MMO - dispositions and traits, combat awareness for NPCs w/ improved targeting logic, weapon techniques, and of course the general danger/tension missing from most MMOs these days.
Gidrisc
So as i understand it, the plan is to continue to developing the mmo systems/mechanics and implement them in a way that fits with the testing/gamemode, so that you can continue developing the mmo while also getting feedback on the systems in a smaller version of the world that people get to play in while they wait for the mmo?
Joppa
Correct
Nexira
seems like this is just basically a dungeonfinder type thing? You queue, go in, kill stuff, and leave with a hardcore spin. Are there going to be different zones added?
Joppa
100% It's the vehicle through which new zones will come online, have their pop, mechanics, art, etc. tested/iterated, then we bring in the next one. AVP and Halnir cave are next in line so we can get back to that TF, AVP, HC trio.
techninja
Are there any considerations to the idea that there will be content exposed in the 247 mode that may remove some of the mystery behind the MMO experience?
Joppa
Definitely. This mode doesn't need every single zone to be compelling, so there will be several we hold back for when the MMO testing is ready to ramp back up. And even then, there will be some we test internally only for the sake of not saturating player knowledge too early.
DougBug
1. Will this mode allow you to add classes quicker?
2. What zone we haven’t seen much of will be first to get updated to the new style/game
3. Are Orges and Giants related (for Fwuffy).
4. Necard update?
Joppa
1. It's less about the mode and more about general workload. With what's on our plate right now, there are a few classes that would be much lower hanging fruit to get in, based on the ability work and combat systems we've done so far (I'm thinking specifically Warrior and Paladin in this case). I'm looking to carve out a window soon to bring those two into the fray.
2. Silent Plains and Blackrose Keep most likely.
3. They are not, and the concept art is truly uncanny. I'm excited for us to take another shot at getting the Ogres right.
Redman323
Are pets in? Any new classes? Dynamic events? Mostly looking at server items that were still outstanding
Joppa
The baseline event system is in for spawn behaviors, which would include NPC spawns (we already have different populations during the day vs. at night - night time is going to be a much bigger feature of the game than most people realize), gathering nodes, world item spawns (loose loot, treasure chests), etc. We have the ability to trigger changes in these areas based on time of day, quest events, etc. We've not yet gotten to the point of larger scale, scripted events.
We are in fact at a place with networking now where the pet system would be supported.
DougBug
I’ve already got more than expected, but can you speak to the audio team in Quebec?
Joppa
They're doing an amazing job. I wish the VIPs could speak to some of the audio stuff, b/c it would mean more hearing it from them.
Ravencraft
The testing of the MMO is going to be halted while the 247 mode is going to be the one that is being used for testing.
I’m sure, like you said, 95% of the effort is still directed at the MMO development. During this time, will we still be getting updates or some sort of alpha tracker for the MMO, even if we don’t get to actually see the progress in-game? Or is it radio silence on the MMO front for a while?
Joppa
The mode of 247 allows for a playable (and hopefully compelling) loop, sooner. The zones, art, NPCs, classes, races, PoIs, quests, items, audio, VFX, game systems/mechanics, progression systems and features are shared. (Doesn't mean there won't be some potential variance/tuning between the two). The instancing tech, queuing, timed instances, etc. are all extensions of ViNL that we've always known we will need for the MMO eventually, but brought earlier into the production pipeline to allow the 247 mode to function like it does. So even without a tracker per se, you will be seeing Pantheon develop as 247 moves forward.
And that's not me saying we wont have a tracker, I know Sav is still working the particulars of that.
Artois
its still being worked on. Sav has it on her plate but needs some info from dev still
Ravencraft
That makes sense. So we can assume that all progress, tech, models etc. added to 247 will also be added to the MMO. And that they’re purposely developed FOR the MMO and can just be slotted into the 247 mode.
The concern is still about how much time and effort the tuning/specific changes for 247 will take away from the MMO. I think that’s the main issue most of us, at least the ones who are still in the ‘let’s wait and see before we pick up pitchforks’ camp have.
Joppa
That's understandable, and something I'm very mindful of for sure.
Savanja
I'm just gonna throw it out there. There are PvP instances and PvE instances.
If you feel like PvPing, queue for the PvP instance.
I happen to like that setup because I'm not super into PvP, but every now and again I'd like to partake in the extra danger.
Roenick decided to jump on the PvP instance and attack a guy who had a friend. They took him down and took his loot.
Joppa
We've had two Devs get ganked and looted actually
Took off with the Archmage Robe and Archmage Staff :D
Nexira
in pve, is the instance just for your group? Or do you encounter other groups
Joppa
Right now Thronefast is the only available map. When you queue for a Mission, you can choose either a PvE or PvP mission. Group size is 4 atm. You spawn in at one of 100 potential spawn points either solo or with your group. Max of 100 players per mission.
Proxy
Cool, do you expect enough skill expression to do neat things like outplaying a 2 man as a solo?
Joppa
Heck yea, I've already seen it
Gidrisc
Are you able to answer how questing works if there is any, is it done inside the instance (grabbing and turning in) or is it done seperately
Joppa
I'll say it plays a significant role
Savanja
Look for this info next week.
Santa
Are there plans to do longer missions? Like a day or a week?
Joppa
Plans is too strong of a word for the moment, but the infrastructure to vary mission time is there.
Santa
Cool. Also if you join soli can you group after in the instance?
Joppa
Currently no. Design decision, not a tech limitation.
TacticalDonut01
is there any place to read or test your skills outside the match?
Joppa
There is. Currently can view abilities, invest mastery points, change ability loadout/gear, before you begin the next mission. Will have an area with training dummies soonish as well where you can try things out on different level targets.
Gidrisc
Can we know the current playable class list, or is that for later?
Ben Dean
Rogue, shaman, monk, dire lord, cleric, wizard... I'm forgetting one. Enchanter!
Parascol
No information on how this will be monetized?
Savanja
These decisions have not been made yet.
Gidrisc
The leaks said champions would gain access, but nothing is confirmed, best bet is to wait for the newsletter
Savanja
That's the problem with leaks. Anything shared with VIPs is early news and ideas not yet fully formed.
Thank you for sharing this for those of us too lazy to look or those too determined not to undercut the supposed role of these forums as the place to go to. Not that very much of of that theory still survives.
"I’m sure, like you said, 95% of the effort is still directed at the MMO development"
Thank you for this in particular. It is good to take a break from concern about where the game is going to get a nice laugh in.
Ok then. I feel comfortable letting go of the game now. I wasn't sure before, but it makes sense now.
Joppa
"so there will be several we hold back for when the MMO testing is ready to ramp back up"
So yeah basically as they said before testing on the MMO takes a back seat to 247. That is their purpose, they have decided as a company to go forward with 247 in place of the MMO, even if it is momentarily, that signals a shift to me. A shift in priroties.
Ravencraft
"The concern is still about how much time and effort the tuning/specific changes for 247 will take away from the MMO. I think that’s the main issue most of us, at least the ones who are still in the ‘let’s wait and see before we pick up pitchforks’ camp have."
Joppa
"That's understandable, and something I'm very mindful of for sure."
That is just pure corporate speak at this point truthfully. I think I have noticed more and more with companies that when they start speaking to gamers like an HR or corporate person, that is the time to turn away. "Understandable and mindful", no I mean that doesn't work really any more does it? I don't think they quite understand outside of their bubble what is going on with the outside world. Echo chambers are not good things.
You also changed the artwork drastically without telling anyone. You spring this 247 without telling anyone. Lack of communication and no communication is the end of MANY relationships.
Yeah it's pretty disturbing how effortlessly Joppa throws around auto instance ques and pvp. Lets keep in mind we only know about this because it was leaked. They were perfectly content using pledges for an unrelated battle royale game, unbeknownst to them.
They think they are broke now, who tf is going to back this game now?
RedGang said:Yeah it's pretty disturbing how effortlessly Joppa throws around auto instance ques and pvp. Lets keep in mind we only know about this because it was leaked. They were perfectly content using pledges for an unrelated battle royale game, unbeknownst to them.
They think they are broke now, who tf is going to back this game now?
This is completely valid. The leaks are forcing the narrative. We'll never know how this would have been sold if the leak hadn't ocurred.
That said, they really don't have any way to avoid the truth when 247 reelases as a monetized game. There is no sugar coating or avoiding the fact that a game will release, published by Visionary Realms, that is not Pantheon Rise of the Fallen. And there will be no avoiding the fact that that game was funded by backers and investors of Pantheon Rise of the Fallen. They will argue that without this game (247) they will not be able to fund Pantheon Rise of the Fallen. But they cannot avoid the fact that the game they release, using backer funds, is NOT Pantheon Rise of the Fallen. IF Pantheon Rise of the Fallen does eventually release as a direct result of funding provided by 247; much will be forgiven by many. If not forgiven, anger will be mitigated in the face of having the game we all hope for. But mitigating anger, or attaining forgiveness through results, is not the same thing as regaining trust. I believe that trust is something that they will not get back. If thousands of backers are told that their hard earned dollars funded a game that is NOT Pantheon Rise of the Fallen, trust may be beyond VR for the rest of this project.
harmonisia said:it's just more bla bla, more liar from them.
As angry as I am about these developments I choose not to accuse them of lying. I like to live by Hanlon's Razor.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."
While I don't think they are stupid per se, I do think there is a lot of inexperience and desperation.
My biggest concern is the total lack of openness this has been introduced with. Honestly, if the graphics and direction taken had been in the original sales pitch, I would not be here now.
Xerion said:
Don't worry everyone the MMO game will release just wait until
-HDR pipeline update
-Networking backend update
-Project Faerthale
-Grayboxing update
-247 Extraction mode
-(insert new promise 2-3 years later)
-(insert new promise 4-6 years later)
You forgot the Fortress DeViare demo which was going to bring in all the publishers/investors that will "speed up development" and get game shipped.
BamBam said: I think its a smart way to.. 1. Build and test New content 2. Keep us entertained while development is ongoing 3. Bring in New ppl and founds to keeper the weels running I much rather have this than just afk wating for years for a potential release.
1&2. They can do this for free by simply letting more people into pre-alpha, preferrably fewer yes men. Using classes, dungeons and loot in a battle royale context, is completely useless for group based MMO testing.
3. Do you really think battle royale players are going to choose the half baked 247 game over Fortnite, PubG, Apex Legends and Valorant?
RedGang said:3. Do you really think battle royale players are going to choose the half baked 247 game over Fortnite, PubG, Apex Legends and Valorant?
I would say no.
Am I choosing 247? no.
Are MMORPG players choosing 247? no.
Are young kids that haven’t tried Fortnite/PubG/Apex/Valorant going to choose 247? maybe. Ahhh, that explains the art change.
Duderino said:Nobody wants a BR with slow tab target combat. The Venn diagram of old school mmo players and extraction/BR players don't even touch.
Target audience is not seasoned BR players. That is certain. Though there is perhaps hope that some of them will come over to take a look and put some money in ...for a while.
Target audience is "old school" MMO fans that wouldn't normally touch BR with a ten foot pole. Or a midget Hungarian. People like ....me. And some of you.
I may well try it out - despite, to use a mild term, my distaste for the entire BR genre. Or I may not. Curiosity and a certain lingering hope.
Is the target audience kids that love cartoons as someone said above? Maybe - but will they throw all of their remaining money into a last gasp advertisng push to get the kids' attention? Could that ever work, even if they did, on a purely computer based game?
If the truth behind all this is a desperate attempt to teach the horse to sing - predicting which way VR will go pursuing a tiny chance of success is beyond my abilities. If asked to do so I can only respond ...neigh!!
Battle Royale is such a departure from an MMORPG, it's downright absurd. Like these guys didn't even consider making a single player RPG first? Or a small scale multiplayer RPG? They just move into an entirely differnent genre that has zero roleplaying whatsoever? This smells like EQ Next, or even worse that game Chronicals of Elryia or whatever it was called. I can't help but laugh! OF COURSE ITS A TERRIBLE IDEA! WHO CAME UP WITH THIS?!
Savanja said:I appreciate the sharing of info from Discord. More information is coming later this week. We expect some clarification and hopefully a video that will show how the game mode works.
Xerion said:Savanja said:I appreciate the sharing of info from Discord. More information is coming later this week. We expect some clarification and hopefully a video that will show how the game mode works.
I am really interested in seeing the Project Faerthale video, I mean the uh Fortress DiViare video, no wait let's see, oh the 247 video! Definitely would like to see how the game mode works! I enjoy these kind of showcases of the game and progress!
Now that info has leaked, they can show the thing we didn't ask for. Imagine how long they would've kept this up had people not found out.