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Introducing our all new bi-weekly video newsletters

    • 413 posts
    January 10, 2020 6:47 AM PST

    lutorin said:

    So basically I don't like this new system at all because getting information is harder, less confortable and messy.

    This is how I feel about all information these days =(  Want to learn how to change a tire?  Watch a video.  Want to learn how to add?  Watch a video!  What ever happened to good old writen instructions?  Makes me sad.

     

    • 590 posts
    January 10, 2020 1:51 PM PST

    lutorin said: In the previous system, I was getting the newsletter in my mail box every month regardless whether I visited the forum or not. ...

    In the actual system I am getting nothing anymore,

    I received the Dec Newsletter in my email on Dec 22. Did you not get that? While it had links to vids in it, it also had two text sections on what many would consider the most important issues, the State of the Game and the state of VR.

    http://www.pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2019_december_producers_letter/

    lutorin said:

    and most importantly don't intend to watch any long streams or videos to hunt for some information piece hidden inside. And I add that for us Europeans who are not native english speakers it is much easier and confortable to understand a written english text than a speech that often goes too fast and half of the words are swallowed anyway. But perhaps VR doesn't care for European pledgers .

    So basically I don't like this new system at all because getting information is harder, less confortable and messy.

    I agree that VR has been in a state of disarray recently but it is hard to fault them, given the loss of Brad during the biggest holiday season of the year. While everyone had to deal with the emotional impact, VR has to deal with a huge impact on the development and business activities that Brad was integral to. Taking a few months to get everything in order is not at all unreasonable.

    I certainly understand that video streams are harder to understand than text for non-English speakers. I encourage VR to keep to the plan they made to have the important information each month released in written form as well as video. Unfortunately, I think most Pantheon fans are much happier with the streams than with text only.

    There are German, French, Italian and Spanish language forum pages under "Community Projects". Are any of those your native language? Perhaps someone may get an effort started to help with translating videos.

     


    This post was edited by Jothany at January 10, 2020 1:53 PM PST
    • 38 posts
    January 14, 2020 3:10 AM PST

    Jothany said:

     

     

     

    I certainly understand that video streams are harder to understand than text for non-English speakers. I encourage VR to keep to the plan they made to have the important information each month released in written form as well as video. Unfortunately, I think most Pantheon fans are much happier with the streams than with text only.

    There are German, French, Italian and Spanish language forum pages under "Community Projects". Are any of those your native language? Perhaps someone may get an effort started to help with translating videos.

     

     

    I speak and read 5 languages. Obviously as this post shows, English included. But this changes nothing on the fact that listening to a too fast, half mumbled english speech is painful and inconfortable and I would avoid it every time I can.

    Translating speech is a job and people get paid for it. There are and will be SOME videos and streams that will be randomly translated to this or that language by a fan but all this unpleasantness can be avoided by simply using the good old and most efficient communication method - a written text.

    I add that a speech in a foreign language is not the only thing that I find bothering - the stream/video format is also notoriously inefficient to transmit information because the ratio "useful information/ noise" is extremely small. I simply feel inconfortable to waste 1 hour or more of my time to watch some people camping some mobs (like the Cohh streams) in hope to learn something interesting and knowing that the useful information hidden somewhere would take 2 written lines and 10 seconds to read.

    Just filming something as it comes seems to me to be a very lazy form of communication because there is no effort to eliminate the noise and focus the content on structured and useful information. But, as you say, there are certainly people who are watching that and perhaps even like it for some reason.

     

    • 2718 posts
    January 14, 2020 8:01 AM PST

    I share the view that written communication has many advantages. Even for those of us who are native speakers of the language in question. I could repeat much of what is said above but there is no need.

    I also agree that there are advantages to being able to see things. If a picture is worth 100 words a *good* stream may be worth 100 pictures. But the ideal spot for a stream is NOT to communicate important information because the person giving the information is too busy or lazy to write it out. The ideal spot is to show things that can only be conveyed poorly in words. 

    Thus - suppose the topic was climbing. Wouldn't the ideal form of communication be a paragraph (nothing too long) where VR says what their current plans are, and then 30 seconds watching characters or enemies actually climb in the latest iteration of pre-alpha?

    Isn't this a lot better than streaming someone sit at a table and recite the paragraph of information with no actual footage from the game iteslf? Forcing someone to watch the whole thing in the hope of getting a tidbit of information out of it rather than taking a few seconds to skim it to see if it contains anything they want to read in detail. With great difficulty if there is any static or the words aren't clear or the listener has English as a second or fifth language. Or has any hearing issues.


    This post was edited by dorotea at January 14, 2020 8:02 AM PST
    • 590 posts
    January 14, 2020 9:07 AM PST

    lutorin said:

    Just filming something as it comes seems to me to be a very lazy form of communication because there is no effort to eliminate the noise and focus the content on structured and useful information. But, as you say, there are certainly people who are watching that and perhaps even like it for some reason.

    For five years, VR has used concise, written text in newsletters to tell us about the world they are creating and their progress in development. Throughout that time, but much more in the last year, there has been a steady complaint from many -if not a majority- of supporters that "if you are really making progress on this game then stop TELLING us about it and SHOW it to us". It has been a recurring message on these forums and a much more frequent complaint in other venues.

    It is also a reasonable point. VR isn't just making a complex game, they are making a world. And for most of us fans, the look of that world, the richness and vibrancy, the feel of standing in that world is a very fundamental part of how we will react to the game. Even for those who agree that game mechanics are more important than graphics, what the game world looks like is a huge factor in how much we will untimately like -or not like- the world of Terminus. And no amount of written text can take the place of showing that world.

    Creating a Pantheon stream takes at the very least 10 times more work and manpower than writing out a newsletter. VR is a small team with a limited budget. It would be vastly more convenient and 'efficient' for them to be able to keep their fans satisfied with simple text newsletters. Choosing to release videos of the game as they are currently doing has nothing to do with "lazy". It has to do with what a majority of fans want. I am sorry that what we want is not what you want.

     

    • 2718 posts
    January 14, 2020 11:52 AM PST

    But Jothany - wouldn't your point be satisfied by a newsletter interspersing text and video? 

    Text to give us *information*. This is where we stand on finishing off prealpha. This is what we have in mind for the racial bonuses for dwarves. And so on. Your desire for them to "show" the world to you is not helped in any slightest way by seeing someone talk about game progress and attributes rather than by being able to read about it. 

    On the other hand those of us that prefer written text for *information* are just as eager as you are to see how gameplay looks like.

    Is there anyone here that would be unhappy with status information and technical details being written but with them also including as video the latest available opportunity to actually see Terminus and characters at work in it?

    • 590 posts
    January 14, 2020 12:47 PM PST

    dorotea said:

    But Jothany - wouldn't your point be satisfied by a newsletter interspersing text and video?

    At no point have I intended to argue that there should NOT be text. Did you miss this in my first response to Lutorin?

     

    Jothany said:

    I encourage VR to keep to the plan they made to have the important information each month released in written form as well as video.

     

     

    • 41 posts
    January 16, 2020 11:12 PM PST

    Slow internet connection here, so rarely watch the streams, I really miss the written newsletters, Text doesnt buffer!

    • 39 posts
    January 21, 2020 11:10 AM PST

    Regardless, I really really hope they start linking the upcoming bi-weekly video newsletters to the "News" section of the website. A hard stop on news following October 2019 and Brad's passing could inadvertently lead to bad assumptions about the game's progress. I know it's been stated in a couple different places on the forums, but I feel like it should be emphasized more. Coming from the perspective of a new pledger it was a huge potential deterrent before I dug deeper to see that development was still alive and well.

    • 238 posts
    January 21, 2020 2:29 PM PST

    I really like the videos every 2 weeks it gives me stuff to look forward to every cupple of weeks, but I do miss the monthly news letters - when they release the race starting stats it would be nice to have a web address to refer to them as often as I like, where as when its all in video formate its hard to skip to the parts you want to all the time.

    • 1 posts
    January 22, 2020 2:55 AM PST

    you could if you haven´t already just sub the youtube and twitch channel.

    Easy as eating cake. I did that i haven´t missed any stream so far of them. 

    VOD function on twitch is just awesome.

     

     

    • 38 posts
    January 26, 2020 3:01 AM PST

    Jothany said:

    It has to do with what a majority of fans want. I am sorry that what we want is not what you want.

     

     

    Well I "want" nothing.

    I basically pointed out that non native english speaking people and hearing impaired  have less difficulty to get information by reading a written text rather than watching for 1 hour or more somebody mumbling english at a table and that I belong to this category of people. Maybe VR doesn't care about informing them for all I know. But it has for result that this category of people will find the communication and information about the game downgraded , noisy and less interesting. This is certainly my case.

    As for the "majority", there is certainly no evidence what a majority wants. I don't know it, you don't know it and VR certainly doesn't know it. It all depends on the sample and to my knowledge VR never asked all pledgers (what would be a representative sample of "fans" of this game) about what they want  for this or that feature.

    Of course everybody knows that forum posts have never given and will never give any reliable statistical information about what "majorities" think or want. For instance the written vs streamed issue in this thread could show that a "majority" thinks in a similar way as I do but I know that this gives absolutely no hint about what the majority of fans thinks about this same issue.

     

    • 413 posts
    January 26, 2020 8:14 AM PST

    Just had a thought - Do you think if one of us (maybe even me) transcribed the sessions while we watch and then post them on the forrum it would be allowed?  Then those who want just text can still see it...and it wouldn't take any extra time.

    • 4419 posts
    January 26, 2020 9:03 AM PST

    Ranarius said:

    Just had a thought - Do you think if one of us (maybe even me) transcribed the sessions while we watch and then post them on the forrum it would be allowed?  Then those who want just text can still see it...and it wouldn't take any extra time.

    Definitely would be allowed. I have seen people post transcripts before, and I used to just write summaries so people could still get the important info - it's always been very much appreciated. There's a fair amount of people who are hard of hearing or just prefer to read instead of watch. To save you some time though if you want a full transcript, YouTube will often auto-generate a transcript, which is usually somewhat accurate but needs to edited. Downloading that and then editing it would probably save you quite a bit of time rather than transcribing it yourself from scratch.


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at January 26, 2020 9:04 AM PST
    • 34 posts
    January 26, 2020 10:47 AM PST

    lutorin said:

    As for the "majority", there is certainly no evidence what a majority wants.

    I totally agree, the posts here in the forum are not representing the majority. It is just a part of the community and so hopyfully VR finds the right way: Listen to what the people write here but do the things their way.

     

    @Ranarius

    Bazgrim is right, you can download the sub titles from YT. But to transform it into a correct transcript it took me 3 or more hours. I'm not a native speaker, so a native speaker would be faster for sure. The question is how many people will use your work. We asked the German community if we should continue to create sub titles for the video newsletter but the feedback was rather restrained :( 

    • 590 posts
    January 26, 2020 1:46 PM PST

    lutorin said:  Well I "want" nothing. 

    Well I'm sorry that I misunderstood you. Your 1st post told about how satisfied you were with the 'previous system' and how "basically I don't like this new system at all because getting information is harder, less confortable and messy." It sounded to me like you "want" them to go back to posting all important information in a text newsletter. I guess I was mistaken.

    lutorin said:

    As for the "majority", there is certainly no evidence what a majority wants. I don't know it, you don't know it and VR certainly doesn't know it.

    You are absolutely correct. What would have been much more accurate would have been to say that "posting more videos is what a large number of fans - both here and on Pantheon's various social media - are asking for".

    All I can say is that it's a very easy mistake to make, eh?

    lutorin said:

    Well all this is very confusing and totally inadapted for the majority of us pledgers who don't come on these boards very often

    • 163 posts
    February 6, 2020 2:17 AM PST

    I think i'm a bit late to the 'party'. But since i was missing the newsletters, i figured i'd search around a bit.

    Generally i read the news letters at work, or i was going to. But since they're primarily covered in video's now, i nolonger have that option and i miss that. Also i'm not a native english speaker and i'm geussing there is more. The video's i have watched do sometimes contain words i don't understand, can't 'hear' or know how to write. With the written newsletter i could copy and paste them to google translate. With the video's i have lost that ability, and have found myself to be seriously out of date on the recent changes.

    So yeah, in my case this change wasn't very welcome and would prefer that if we are going to use the video's as the primary way of sharing information, there is atleast a transcript available that can be read? (as i assume the video's are pretty much scripted?).

    • 590 posts
    February 6, 2020 11:59 AM PST

    decarsul said:

    (as i assume the video's are pretty much scripted?).

    I'm certain that the Devs have an outline of the subjects they wish to cover in each stream and detailed notes on the important points of each subject. However, I doubt that the full dialogue is actually scripted the way movies and television shows are scripted.

    We just received a February newsletter, and it appears that they are slowly getting back to giving us significant text information along with the videos. Hopefully that will help those like you and Lutorin.

    • 4 posts
    April 27, 2020 5:35 PM PDT

    Am I missing a livestream from 2 weeks ago?  Or are the streams now monthly due to the 'rona?

    • 20 posts
    April 27, 2020 6:02 PM PDT

    MalFelis said:

    Am I missing a livestream from 2 weeks ago?  Or are the streams now monthly due to the 'rona?

     

    Yes they are back to once a month.

     

    https://pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/11846/next-dev-stream-april-30

    • 1610 posts
    May 18, 2020 6:22 AM PDT

    I like that they have maintained the regularity of the updates, it gives a sense of normality during the pandemic. Something to look forward to that occured before, that is still occuring during this world event. 

    Not to sound maudlin, but speaking of world events, there will be alot of intuitive behaviors learned that might be neat to see utilized in game? given the right situation. I mean, intuitively knowing what to do when you dont know what to do in game given or presented with a certain scenario/Not blatantly indicated quest overlay. Like, you come across a cave of vampire bats, you need bat fur or fangs for fishing lure's or poisons/antidotes/bloodthinners. You learn they share brooding responsibilities, all the babies are in one communal nest. Only the babies drink blood that the mothers bring them stored in special neck pouches. How come those bats are away from everyone else and angry when we approach? are they social distancing? yes! must be a plague of some sort, we need masks, we passed a stream, we should bathe before too long etc etc, you know what I mean. (vampire bats do practice social distancing when sick, in their caves. I read it somewhere)