Forums » News and Announcements

Introducing our all new bi-weekly video newsletters

    • 131 posts
    October 21, 2019 9:28 AM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    Asbo said:

    Guys I'm not sure why you continue to feel the need to waste resources and time on side projects when in my opinion you should be investing all your time and energy in finish the game many of us have supported and continue to do so. I felt the shop thing you did highlights my concerns rushed and not thought through properly as you closed it shortly after opening because you didn't do the footwork up front. 

    I do not see a need for constant fluff and distraction for the sake of it, if this time was dedicated to the game we would see the end result sooner rather than later! My positivity towards this game is starting to wane and I'm becoming concerned that there is not light at the end of the tunnel. Please prove me wrong...!

    This underscores the complexity of crowdfunding a game and how few people understand it. I'm not claiming that I understand all of it, but I do know that with limited funds, you can't ONLY focus on making the game. If they want to be sustainable long term, they need to get the word out there and they need to increase investor confidence. Putting on a high quality production where you showcase what you've been working on is a great way to do that. No company survives without marketing. In fact, bigger companies often dedicate a huge percentage of their budget to marketing - and it usually pays off. But this is a small company who relies on people being aware of what they're trying to accomplish. I think the fact that they've been fairly quiet lately actually indicates that they're doing fairly well financially. But that can't last forever. It's clearly time to get more people interested in their name and their game, which will ultimately propel them forward if done well. So we as fans are not really in a position to determine what is and isn't a true waste of resources. Just because it's something you don't care about doesn't mean it's a waste of resources. There are a lot of moving parts.

     

    Nicely said Bazgrim. I totally agree with you.  In my personal opinion. Communication is key. You need communication in every type of relationship. Be it a romantic, friendship, or business relationship without communication no relationship is going to survive.

    I'm eager to play Pantheon rise of the fallen sooner vs later, but reality always overrides our personal opinions. VR needs to reach more people. When people get reached and say a quarter or half of those people pledge. That is a good thing as it helps VR to 1. hire more people or 2. contract out what they can. Both equal to the game being creative produce faster.  Just my two cents.

    • 804 posts
    October 21, 2019 12:39 PM PDT

    Asbo and Bazgrim were not referencing the Newsletter, they were referring to the Online Cash Shop/money grab.  The last 4 or 5 comments were just people jumping on Baz's junk and flaming Asbo for something that wasn't even mentioned.  I agree with Asbo in that advertising/merchandising for a product that doesn't even really exist yet is a poor use of time and is intuitively counterproductive.  In today's game world a well developed game needs no cash marketing for advertisement.  Between YouTube, Twitter, IGN and Facebook alone you can reach all of the market you need.  Once you have fans AND a product, that is when you merchandise for that product.  

    • 1581 posts
    October 21, 2019 3:05 PM PDT

    So, instead of print medium every month, we're getting TWO chunks of info every month instead of once?

    I think that is great, I thought I would see more enthusiasm from the crowd.

    • 1892 posts
    October 21, 2019 3:11 PM PDT

    Manouk said:

    So, instead of print medium every month, we're getting TWO chunks of info every month instead of once?

    I think that is great, I thought I would see more enthusiasm from the crowd.

    You're given a free bologna sandwhich with mayo and mustard on white bread once a month from a sandwich shop.  A few months here and there when you show up for your regularly scheduled free sandwhich they tell you to come back next week as your sandwhich was delayed. Then, later, they change it to half a bologna sandwhich on white bread every other week.  You tell me, which makes you happier? Are you really better off?


    This post was edited by Vandraad at October 21, 2019 3:12 PM PDT
    • 7 posts
    October 21, 2019 3:20 PM PDT

    Darch said:

    Asbo and Bazgrim were not referencing the Newsletter

     

    Actually they were. The discussion was about, Asbo felt the team was wasting time on what he called "Fluff" (reffering to the newsletter, videos, and he used the cash shop as an example) that could be better used making the game. Bazgrim's position was that they also need fans and money and videos and newsletters and such are a tool to generate more people / more money to aid in faster and better development.


    This post was edited by Spart at October 21, 2019 3:34 PM PDT
    • 669 posts
    October 21, 2019 3:40 PM PDT
    @Vandraad being fed a bologna sandwich makes me happy to continue your analogy. We’ve all paid into this freely and would like updates and info whenever we can. Having a sandwich once a month is fine, having a half every two weeks is probably the same but comes quicker. I can only speak for myself here but having more communication from VR is nice. Before anyone drops a deuce on this maybe we should at least see what it’s about first.
    • 395 posts
    October 21, 2019 3:55 PM PDT

    You guys planning on addressing the loss of Daniel Krenn, your CTO and Lead Programmer in this newsletter?  Plans on replacement, how this impacts development, etc...   That guy has been a rock for a long time, it seems like really concerning news.  Development is already very slow, now you lost your ace programmer, that can't be good for release no matter how you slice it.  

    • 65 posts
    October 21, 2019 5:03 PM PDT

    @Mathir Somehow I had missed Daniel Krenn leaving the fold.Losing your lead programer and CTO Officer is not good news, but on th other hand everyone needs to move on at somepoint in their life. I just hope that was one of thes4e points.

    I see the Bi monthly vids as a good thing, a little light in the tunnel is better than total darkenss! So onward and up wards.

    • 36 posts
    October 21, 2019 5:31 PM PDT

    Spart said:

    Darch said:

    Asbo and Bazgrim were not referencing the Newsletter

     

    Actually they were. The discussion was about, Asbo felt the team was wasting time on what he called "Fluff" (reffering to the newsletter, videos, and he used the cash shop as an example) that could be better used making the game. Bazgrim's position was that they also need fans and money and videos and newsletters and such are a tool to generate more people / more money to aid in faster and better development.

    Correct!

    • 167 posts
    October 21, 2019 9:02 PM PDT

    Mathir said:

    You guys planning on addressing the loss of Daniel Krenn, your CTO and Lead Programmer in this newsletter?  Plans on replacement, how this impacts development, etc...   That guy has been a rock for a long time, it seems like really concerning news.  Development is already very slow, now you lost your ace programmer, that can't be good for release no matter how you slice it.  

     

    Hmmm... it makes sense now.  I find this unsettling.  Worrisome for sure.

    • 1458 posts
    October 21, 2019 9:41 PM PDT
    Here is info from Mr. Krenns LinkedIn:

    Game and interactive application engineer (C# | Unity)
    Self employed
    Sep 2019 – Present
    2 months
    Brisbane, Australia

    CTO | Lead Programmer
    Visionary Realms, Inc.
    Sep 2014 – Sep 2019
    5 years 1 month

    More transparency would be appreciated. When people are hired VR announces it to the community. It should go both ways.
    That being said, this is a lot different than losing a web designer...
    Simple honesty is the best policy, even if what you have to report is negative. Things keep gettng swept under the rug and then we find out about it later and lose faith.

    • 357 posts
    October 21, 2019 9:43 PM PDT

    Kastor said:

    Mathir said:

    You guys planning on addressing the loss of Daniel Krenn, your CTO and Lead Programmer in this newsletter?  Plans on replacement, how this impacts development, etc...   That guy has been a rock for a long time, it seems like really concerning news.  Development is already very slow, now you lost your ace programmer, that can't be good for release no matter how you slice it.  

     

    Hmmm... it makes sense now.  I find this unsettling.  Worrisome for sure.

    might be old news. i am trying to not even look at anything pantheon but I saw this loss announced on Facebook group for pantheon. also heard they lost their lead web designer as well. aka why there isn't a new web page. 

     

    hopefully i won't get attacked for adding this info.  it might be old news but I just read it 5 min ago. 

    • 1729 posts
    October 21, 2019 10:36 PM PDT

    SooZo said:

    @Mathir Somehow I had missed Daniel Krenn leaving the fold.Losing your lead programer and CTO Officer is not good news, but on th other hand everyone needs to move on at somepoint in their life. I just hope that was one of thes4e points.

    I see the Bi monthly vids as a good thing, a little light in the tunnel is better than total darkenss! So onward and up wards.

    He moved on to be "self employed". He didn't even get another gig. 

    • 6 posts
    October 21, 2019 11:27 PM PDT

    Keno Monster said:

    He moved on to be "self employed". He didn't even get another gig. 

     

    Perhaps he has something else lined up and just needed a small break between major projects?  Either way, there has been a stream of negative information popping up that is becoming quite unsettling.  Let's hope some of this is addressed in the near future and we can regain some of the good vibes 

    • 18 posts
    October 22, 2019 6:15 AM PDT

    philo said: Here is info from Mr. Krenns LinkedIn: Game and interactive application engineer (C# | Unity) Self employed Sep 2019 – Present 2 months Brisbane, Australia CTO | Lead Programmer Visionary Realms, Inc. Sep 2014 – Sep 2019 5 years 1 month More transparency would be appreciated. When people are hired VR announces it to the community. It should go both ways. That being said, this is a lot different than losing a web designer... Simple honesty is the best policy, even if what you have to report is negative. Things keep gettng swept under the rug and then we find out about it later and lose faith.

     

    Agree 100%. Thanks for digging up the scoop even tho you should not have to

    • 804 posts
    October 22, 2019 6:42 AM PDT

    @Spart/Asbo/Bazgrim - I stand corrected.  I "assumed" incorrectly that Asbo was only referencing the cash shop but after re-reading the post I can infer that the statement was concerning all work not involving direct production of the game.  In that regard, I do not agree because not everyone on the team is a designer/developer/programer and there is a need for communication.  I do however feel strongly against the cash shop and feel that is a waste of time and resources that could be better used elsewhere.  I'm pretty excited for the bi-weekly videos (that takes maybe 3-4 hours a week) and costs nothing but provides great communication.

    • 1296 posts
    October 22, 2019 6:50 AM PDT

    Hm. Two employees left in September 2019.  This makes me wonder if it wasn't more than two, at the same time?

    • 217 posts
    October 22, 2019 7:22 AM PDT
    Don't be unsettled. I understand how it could read that way, the outside looking in perspective is always hard. But I can tell you we are absolutely in a good place as a team.

    Pantheon's journey (at least as long as I've been around) has been a long, steady stream of the right people at the right time and this is no exception. Daniel has moved on, but we've gained a new and brilliant Lead Programmer in Kyle Olsen, whom you will all be getting to know much better in the coming weeks/months.

    Onward and upward.
    • 238 posts
    October 22, 2019 7:44 AM PDT

    Joppa said: Don't be unsettled. I understand how it could read that way, the outside looking in perspective is always hard. But I can tell you we are absolutely in a good place as a team. Pantheon's journey (at least as long as I've been around) has been a long, steady stream of the right people at the right time and this is no exception. Daniel has moved on, but we've gained a new and brilliant Lead Programmer in Kyle Olsen, whom you will all be getting to know much better in the coming weeks/months. Onward and upward.

     

    Thank you for this Joppa it means a lot. I'm guessing its the same Kyle Olsen that was working on the character controller

    https://pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2019_july_underwraps/


    This post was edited by Kellie at October 22, 2019 8:01 AM PDT
    • 395 posts
    October 22, 2019 8:31 AM PDT

    Joppa said: Don't be unsettled. I understand how it could read that way, the outside looking in perspective is always hard. But I can tell you we are absolutely in a good place as a team. Pantheon's journey (at least as long as I've been around) has been a long, steady stream of the right people at the right time and this is no exception. Daniel has moved on, but we've gained a new and brilliant Lead Programmer in Kyle Olsen, whom you will all be getting to know much better in the coming weeks/months. Onward and upward.

     

    Appreciate the response.  I don't doubt Kyle Olsen is talented, and I don't know how talented Daniel Krenn truly was.  But what I do know is that Daniel said he was putting in 12+ hour days for the last 5 years, and this project is progressing very slowly.  We are all hoping you guys can hire 20 programmers to speed things up, losing a guy putting in that much time and energy only hurts the pace of development.  Can you briefly explain why I am wrong in assuming this only greatly slows down development once again, and it's also a little odd you guys aren't trying to hire more programmers, or are you?  I mean, at least one more to fill the position Kyle originally was brought on board for, right?

    • 393 posts
    October 22, 2019 8:47 AM PDT

    Mathir said:Appreciate the response.  I don't doubt Kyle Olsen is talented, and I don't know how talented Daniel Krenn truly was.  But what I do know is that Daniel said he was putting in 12+ hour days for the last 5 years, and this project is progressing very slowly.  We are all hoping you guys can hire 20 programmers to speed things up, losing a guy putting in that much time and energy only hurts the pace of development.  Can you briefly explain why I am wrong in assuming this only greatly slows down development once again, and it's also a little odd you guys aren't trying to hire more programmers, or are you?  I mean, at least one more to fill the position Kyle originally was brought on board for, right?

    The assumption was that Kyle was brought on for Daniel's role. Also, from what we gathered, this isn't an actual programming issue in terms of manning as they appear to have enough, it's art-assets that seem to be the bottleneck. Jason Wieman one of their actual Unity programmers spoke a bit about this as well.


    This post was edited by Janus at October 22, 2019 8:48 AM PDT
    • 395 posts
    October 22, 2019 9:29 AM PDT

    Janus said:

    Mathir said:Appreciate the response.  I don't doubt Kyle Olsen is talented, and I don't know how talented Daniel Krenn truly was.  But what I do know is that Daniel said he was putting in 12+ hour days for the last 5 years, and this project is progressing very slowly.  We are all hoping you guys can hire 20 programmers to speed things up, losing a guy putting in that much time and energy only hurts the pace of development.  Can you briefly explain why I am wrong in assuming this only greatly slows down development once again, and it's also a little odd you guys aren't trying to hire more programmers, or are you?  I mean, at least one more to fill the position Kyle originally was brought on board for, right?

    The assumption was that Kyle was brought on for Daniel's role. Also, from what we gathered, this isn't an actual programming issue in terms of manning as they appear to have enough, it's art-assets that seem to be the bottleneck. Jason Wieman one of their actual Unity programmers spoke a bit about this as well.

     

    Incorrect.  The newsletter linked above clearly states that Kyle was brought on to join the programming team.  Join.  Not lead.  Also, they've been reprogramming everything from stealth, to the perception system, to just recently adding climbing.  They have one raid concept in game.  Most of the class abilities aren't in game.  Blizzard had over 20 programmers for WoW, VR has what now?  3?  Isn't one guy a dentist and only works in off hours as well?

    • 1252 posts
    October 22, 2019 9:44 AM PDT

    Mathir said:

    Incorrect.  The newsletter linked above clearly states that Kyle was brought on to join the programming team.  Join.  Not lead.  Also, they've been reprogramming everything from stealth, to the perception system, to just recently adding climbing.  They have one raid concept in game.  Most of the class abilities aren't in game.  Blizzard had over 20 programmers for WoW, VR has what now?  3?  Isn't one guy a dentist and only works in off hours as well?

    rofl a dentist moonlighting as a programmer XD  then again i've seen some crazy moonlighters.  bank tellers as nightclub djs.  doctors as bartenders.  hair stylists as exotic dancers.  lawyers as bouncers.  retailers as janitors.

     

    actually now that i thnk about it, it kinda makes sense as a dentist moonlighting as a programmer.

    they are a janitor for the human mouf.  same job except more sanitary, doesn't smell and probably has teh same concepts.

    • 245 posts
    October 22, 2019 12:35 PM PDT

     

    it is very unsettling that this information came out this way.  I know VR is a private company.  Thus this information can be considered confidential.  The problem comes from the fact that this information was certain to be available and when it isn't revealed by VR in a timely manner it causes the fan base to worry.  Given that VR is trying to be popular and interesting to the computer gaming community, this is poor pr. I hope VR will do better in the future.

    • 183 posts
    October 22, 2019 2:16 PM PDT

    stellarmind said:

    Mathir said:

    Incorrect.  The newsletter linked above clearly states that Kyle was brought on to join the programming team.  Join.  Not lead.  Also, they've been reprogramming everything from stealth, to the perception system, to just recently adding climbing.  They have one raid concept in game.  Most of the class abilities aren't in game.  Blizzard had over 20 programmers for WoW, VR has what now?  3?  Isn't one guy a dentist and only works in off hours as well?

    rofl a dentist moonlighting as a programmer XD  then again i've seen some crazy moonlighters.  bank tellers as nightclub djs.  doctors as bartenders.  hair stylists as exotic dancers.  lawyers as bouncers.  retailers as janitors.

     

    actually now that i thnk about it, it kinda makes sense as a dentist moonlighting as a programmer.

    they are a janitor for the human mouf.  same job except more sanitary, doesn't smell and probably has teh same concepts.

     

    Orthodontist, so less of a mouth cleaner and more of a smile builder. I do have a Masters degree in Computer Science and 2 patents in the industry--one in object recognition and one in computational photography, so it's not so much moonlighting but a separate career. I'm also a lifelong gamer and game programmer, but often on my own pet projects. And yes, solving problems in a logical and step-by-step manner is definitely similar in both orthodontics and programming. There's some engineering, some art, and some internal drive to make things work. As far as more sanitary--have you ever swabbed a keyboard for bacteria? Oh, so gross!

    It's good to have people on the team that have varied interests and life experiences, and more importantly share the same goals for Pantheon as you while knowing what it takes to be successful. That has always been a strong point of the Pantheon crew. Not everyone is going to be directly contributing to the production of the game itself. A game company has all kinds of additional production and marketing needs and that's where our team really shines. Things like the newsletter and the soon-to-be-seen video updates allow passionate people to do what they do best. Not only does that fill in some blanks communication-wise, it brings more people into the fold which is ultimately what is necessary for Pantheon to be succesful. I'm certainly glad we have David and Ben (among others) that can make that happen. I'm actually excited to see it, as we sometimes lose track of what cool stuff other sections of the team has wrapped up and moved into the actual game.

     

     

    The programming foundation has been and still is in good hands. Daniel was a fantastic programmer and friend and had the load squarely on his shoulders for many years. When I first came on the team he was pretty much the only other programmer, and I was there to contribute what I could. Now I would say we have an appropriately-sized (and talented) programming crew for the amount of work to be done. Keep in mind that development of a game is far, far more than programming. Art and content building is by far the largest bottleneck to getting a game done. Much of the programming load right now is making things easier to work with in the long-run and tightening up performance. Some of it is back-end stuff like automating build servers, some of it is getting things in place to make better tools for content designers, and some of it is core gameplay related, such as focusing on player and npc abilities and movement and character control. And of course fixing bugs as they pop up. We each have responsibilities that match our experience and our time available. I wouldn't read too far into anything--I personally have no worries as far as how programming is going and I'm just as anxious to see the game reach completion as you all. Always consider me as a small cog on a giant wheel, here to take on whatever I can to help. So don't put too much into the oddity that a tooth doc is part of the team :)

    As I've said many times, all of us can't wait to get everyone back into the game, including ourselves, and that's a huge motivation that drives production each and every day.