So, I spent this weekend re-re-re-watching a bunch of the Pantheon streams, going all the way back into early 2016. What follows is some mental “regurgitation” with no semblance of order. Some thoughts that I had based on what I saw. Some of this may have already been mentioned in other posts. Feel free to comment on my nonsense or to add your own. So, without further adieu….
AI and Levels/Mob “Rank”
So one of the things that was mentioned is that AI will probably be tied into the “disposition system” and to mob class. I’d like to see it taken a bit further and tie it into mob levels and “ranks”. What I mean, is that, for instance, through experience, a level 15 mod should be smarter than a level 5 mob. The AI should reflect that “gained experience”. To add to it, mobs of different “ranks” of the same level should have different AI “smarts”. For instance, an Orc Bruiser, being the lowest level “soldier” shouldn’t have as smart of an AI as an Orc Warlord of the same level.
Combat Ability Bar
They’ve stated that there will be, most likely, only one combat ability bar that you can’t modify during combat that will have twelve combat abilities on it. What would be nice is that if you could have multiple “pre-organized” bars that you could swap out, out of combat. As an example, you’re going to go fight Wraiths, you pull out your bar that has your pre-staged skills for that sort of encounter. Later you’re going to go fight some Orcs. You pull out your bar that has your pre-staged skills for that sort of encounter. The idea here is not to give you multiple bars “to use” but just to make it easier to “pre-stage” toolbars for different “types” of encounter. You could for instance type “/load toolbar wraith_encounter” and it loads up the skills you have set up for that encounter and then flip over to the Orc encounter one by typing “/load toolbar orc_encounter”, and so on. For lack of a better word, I guess you could call them “situational toolbars”. They still couldn’t be loaded mid-encounter, but just a way to organize your toolbars ahead of time and swap between them easier.
Seasons
So there seem to be static areas where there is snow and they said that there will be procedural things like fog, clouds, rain, etc. However, one thing that they haven’t really mentioned is seasons. I think that seasons should be a thing. So a place that is nice and lushly green in the spring, would get lots of rain because it’s the rainy season, then when it is the fall, you’d see the reds, yellows, and browns in the trees, then in the winter you’d see snow and snow storms. I get that there would be some areas that might be “full-time snow”, like mountainous areas and what-not. In addition to the seasons, there could be “seasonal mobs”. As an example, reindeer wouldn’t be in an area when it’s spring, summer, or fall, but they may be there in the winter. They’ve already said that there may be procedural mob spawns, but this could take that one step further. Along with seasons, phases of the moon, and possibly spawns that go along with that. For instance, werewolves that only come out on nights with a full moon.
Testing Streams
It would be interesting to see some “live” streams of actual pre-alpha, alpha, and beta testing sessions so that people could see what is involved in the testing. Based on some of the comments, I think that some people still have the idea that pre-alpha, alpha, and beta are some sort of “early access” where you get to just run around bashing things, I have seen it referred to that many times, and this might just give them a “peek behind the curtain” to show them what’s actually going on.
Dynamically Introduce New Content via Lore
By “new content” in this case, I mean like additional DLC or purchased expansions, but could really be applied to anything. For example, let’s say that they are releasing some DLC that introduces a new content. For weeks before the actual availability of the content they could “hype” it up in-game. The NPCs could start talking about some “rumors out of the east” and the murmur in-game could build until the DLC drops and then the NPCs start talking about the new continent that was discovered in the far east and how the ship captains in the port of whatever have found a route to it.
In-Game Mail System
I’d like to see an in-game mail system where you can leave messages for someone at say a bank, inn, or tavern which they can retrieve when they log in. With that being said, I think that they should have to go to a bank, inn, or tavern to retrieve them. To add to this, maybe there could be a “guild mail” system for guilds to send “mass messages” to the entire guild about upcoming events. It might be nice to have a notification e-mailed to the recipient that they have received an in-game mail, but only allow them to read it in the game. There could be a cost associated with non-guild mail messages, that way it was tied to a “money sink” in the game and would make it a little more realistic. Like, as an example, it cost 2cp in order to send a mail to another player. This could even be tied in with the CS system for bug reporting and what-not, with the cost being adjusted accordingly (a CS mail would be free as an example). Maybe you could also use it to “ship” items to another player.
These are the things that came to me while I was watching the streams. Thoughts?
Ok so, OP you can take this with a grain of salt if you'd like but I will comment on each of your listed examples and give my thoughts on them.
AI/levels/mob ranks
I like your idea here. In theory. The problem is that you're talking about hundreds and hundreds of differing AI patterns in order to cover each level and rank. Yes an orc bruiser should basically just be melee attacks and maybe fleeing or getting help as it grows and gets smarter. BUT the warlord will have other abilities. Maybe he dislikes healers and thus healing gains more hatred from him. Such things like that would be easy to do over all mobs in the game. Giving them semi random dispositions. You couldn't really have new ones for every type of mob at every level and rank though.
Combat Ability Bar
The game is designed to make you think. You may have 50 abilities but can only use 12. It takes time to swap them. So having a quickbar isn't really possible imo. You can have them in your own order in your spellbook to make it faster but I say no to quickbars.
Seasons
Well we know night and day are in. In EQ rain and weather were in. So I'm sure we will see varying weather conditions but I doubt each area will go through seasons. It would be nice but not very high on my priority list of what I want them stressing to get into the game.
Testing Streams
Won't happen. Anyone who's been in enough testing phases can tell you that no game wants random streamer X showing off parts of the game. The streams they do show are planned out and tested beforehand. You may see some bugs still but you won't see the area's they don't want you to see. Even in beta when companies usually allow select streams to go, they generally have guidelines they have to follow and dev's in channel watching to make sure they do.
New Content
This will happen I'm sure. At least it has in the past.
Not sure how I feel about this one. If you have to go to a banker or something to retrieve mail, sure. Hopefully you will have a UI thing for guild and you can just post guild messages that everyone can see.
Anyways my 2cents
Kittik said:With how much the game is and has been changing from PPA to PA2/3 and into BETA re-re-rewatching the streams isn't good for much anymore. But if you enjoyed it, thats all that matters.
Yes, I am aware of that. I have been "aware of" and keeping my eye on Pantheon since it was a Kickstarter campaign. I've probably watched each and every video at least half a dozen times, and am still picking new items out of them. The "biggest" part of PPA/PA2/3 that "kills the streams" is mainly in appearance. They haven't really changed much "mechanics-wise" even into the current streams. It just looks prettier.
That being said, the progression that has been made thus far, in no way, trivializes or removes the thoughts and questions.
Enitzu said:Ok so, OP you can take this with a grain of salt if you'd like but I will comment on each of your listed examples and give my thoughts on them.
AI/levels/mob ranks
I like your idea here. In theory. The problem is that you're talking about hundreds and hundreds of differing AI patterns in order to cover each level and rank. Yes an orc bruiser should basically just be melee attacks and maybe fleeing or getting help as it grows and gets smarter. BUT the warlord will have other abilities. Maybe he dislikes healers and thus healing gains more hatred from him. Such things like that would be easy to do over all mobs in the game. Giving them semi random dispositions. You couldn't really have new ones for every type of mob at every level and rank though.
Combat Ability Bar
The game is designed to make you think. You may have 50 abilities but can only use 12. It takes time to swap them. So having a quickbar isn't really possible imo. You can have them in your own order in your spellbook to make it faster but I say no to quickbars.
Seasons
Well we know night and day are in. In EQ rain and weather were in. So I'm sure we will see varying weather conditions but I doubt each area will go through seasons. It would be nice but not very high on my priority list of what I want them stressing to get into the game.
Testing Streams
Won't happen. Anyone who's been in enough testing phases can tell you that no game wants random streamer X showing off parts of the game. The streams they do show are planned out and tested beforehand. You may see some bugs still but you won't see the area's they don't want you to see. Even in beta when companies usually allow select streams to go, they generally have guidelines they have to follow and dev's in channel watching to make sure they do.
New Content
This will happen I'm sure. At least it has in the past.
Not sure how I feel about this one. If you have to go to a banker or something to retrieve mail, sure. Hopefully you will have a UI thing for guild and you can just post guild messages that everyone can see.
Anyways my 2cents
I am going to comment/clarify on a few of your responses.
AI/Levels/Mob Ranks
You could re-use the same "rank/level" AI for multiple mob-types, which would cut down on the multiple different AI streams per level/rank. For instance, an Orc Bruiser would be the same rank as a "Newbie Pirate" would be the same rank as a "Baby Swashbuckler", so the same AI could be used across them to a certain extent to help make the numbers manageable. They've already stated that they plan on adding what I will call "opportunistic AI", where a mob might hate a particular kind of player character; like a Cleric for example.
Combat Ability Bar
This already exists. It has 12 slots in it. It is in, literally, every video that they have, including the current one. I'm not talking about creating something that is "net new". I'm just talking about a way to "swap between" pre-configured ones using a command for when you're going from one area to another where you need a completely different set of skills, sort of like you will be doing for different weapons and gear, rather than having to manually drag-n-drop things onto it each and every time. These bars would *NOT* be swappable during combat, just like individual abilities are not swappable onto the combat bars like they exist today during combat. It's nothing more than pre-planning and staging different bars for different types of encounters and then being able to switch between the bars in between encounters, just like they plan, the ability to switch out, for weapons, armor, and environmental resistances.
Testing Streams
I've done plenty of testing. They've already done far more streams than your average game design company, INCLUDING showing "grey boxing behind the scenes" streams (Making of a City). I am not talking about letting any old "joebob tester" stream their testing. I am talking about managed testing streams, like they have already done. As they stated in their Making of a City video, they have already given us a "glimpse behind the curtain" far more than other development companies have done. I see this as an extension of that, managed by them.
Hopefully this clarifies some of what I said. It *SOUNDS* like you're not saying alot different than what I said, unless I am misunderstanding, which is always possible.
Kalok said:AI/Levels/Mob Ranks
You could re-use the same "rank/level" AI for multiple mob-types, which would cut down on the multiple different AI streams per level/rank. For instance, an Orc Bruiser would be the same rank as a "Newbie Pirate" would be the same rank as a "Baby Swashbuckler", so the same AI could be used across them to a certain extent to help make the numbers manageable. They've already stated that they plan on adding what I will call "opportunistic AI", where a mob might hate a particular kind of player character; like a Cleric for example.
That would be possible. I was thinking you were refering to each mob type having their own AI which would mean thousands of different AI strings. And yes I know that was already mentioned which is why I used that example.
Kalok said:Combat Ability Bar
This already exists. It has 12 slots in it. It is in, literally, every video that they have, including the current one. I'm not talking about creating something that is "net new". I'm just talking about a way to "swap between" pre-configured ones using a command for when you're going from one area to another where you need a completely different set of skills, sort of like you will be doing for different weapons and gear, rather than having to manually drag-n-drop things onto it each and every time. These bars would *NOT* be swappable during combat, just like individual abilities are not swappable onto the combat bars like they exist today during combat. It's nothing more than pre-planning and staging different bars for different types of encounters and then being able to switch between the bars in between encounters, just like they plan, the ability to switch out, for weapons, armor, and environmental resistances.
They do exist in game. But what you're asking for is the ability to quick change your bar. This was introduced much later in EQ as a QoL thing but that was long after Brad and most of his team were gone. They want to take the slow approach which means we probably won't be seeing this feature, at least not to start.
Kalok said:Testing Streams
I've done plenty of testing. They've already done far more streams than your average game design company, INCLUDING showing "grey boxing behind the scenes" streams (Making of a City). I am not talking about letting any old "joebob tester" stream their testing. I am talking about managed testing streams, like they have already done. As they stated in their Making of a City video, they have already given us a "glimpse behind the curtain" far more than other development companies have done. I see this as an extension of that, managed by them.
Hopefully this clarifies some of what I said. It *SOUNDS* like you're not saying alot different than what I said, unless I am misunderstanding, which is always possible.
You're right they have done a good bit of streaming and they have shown things that most companies never show. But all of those take time away from them doing their jobs and getting us into the game. The reason they use well known streamers is because these guys already have the fan base to justify putting in the time to be there with them. More people interested is always a good thing. Expanding that to small time streamers could help the streamer but it really wouldn't give the game very much new publicity so in the long run it's more of wasted time rather than promoting.