Crazzie said:You made a very good point, this is exactly where we where lead to believe. It now is a hindering system that is now a norm. If you do not have a tank, pick elsewhere simple if its a tank and spank mob area. If your missing a CC for the group, and none in the zone LFG... your all LFG until you find one. The same applies with healing. These are 3 of the most important classes we have been lead to believe are essential to form the group. This is also one of the most taxing systems we have been lead to believe is the only way. We know other games tried to add in classes that where robus. So the periods of time your saying to wait is how long? We all are paying to play a game. I guess reroll as a needed class? Something else has to be invented to curve this problem of /LFG on all day.... and i see a huge need for matchmaking system more now then ever.
This has been the case since the initial concept of the game , you are complaining about playing a game that was designed around the holy trinity. Then are going to complain , when you are not playing one of the trinity ?
There is no need for a match making system , because unless the game is cross server ie rift or wow then it is counter productive to the game itself for example. Those type of systems defeat the entire point of the game there trying to create ie fast travel , instant dungeon finders etc. The truth is if this game is anything as it was stated it will be similiar to eq1. It's not like you do not know what you are signing up to play and how the basic concepts already work... they have been stated many times already.
The real problem you have boils down to simple math. There simply will be more fill based classes in compairson to tanks healers and cc, that is just a simple fact and nature of the beast.
Adding another system does little to solve the core problem that has nothing to with game design but with the numbers and choices most players pick for character creation.
There seems to be a bit of unwillingness for a decent majority of players around in games these days to be involved in starting groups a lot of the time, maybe people are nervous to be the leader or dont want to have to do any extra effort socially to create the group from scratch.
Maybe VR could have a function in the tool that allows people within the LFG world to nominate themselves as a person who is "Looking to Lead" a group. This is someone who regards themselves as a person who is pro active and willing to work hard to start a group from scratch and build them up. I found so many times in what appeared to be quiet times, there were enough people looking but not willing to start forming a group from nothing because they were (at that moment) only really considering getting an already formed and active group or maybe they were not good at breaking the ice with a single other player so they never asked if someone wanted to duo as they dont like being the one to then have the responsibility to actually form the group once it is started.
But (for instance) if I was able to flag myself as a someone Looking to Lead then another person who is looking on the group tool see's me on a special "Looking to Lead" list and knows if i have made contact (or if they make contact 1st) I'll take care of the group building, and with a competent group leader that can usually turn pretty quickly into a trio. For most a duo looking for more is much more enticing than a bunch of randoms LFG and no one knowing who is going to lead. I would then continue to build on wards until you have a pretty good group in the making on its way to a nearby camp. You know that those groups might become a rag tag of misfits if thge pickings are thin but it keeps the wheels turning and hopefully limits the difficult times Crazzie is talking about when there just isnt a group that wants your class.
We all have had trouble finding groups from time to time depending on the class, but one thing i never had trouble with was starting groups, and then building on them because i was happy to work at it and encourage people to play outside the box with their classes / tactics with throw together PUG's. I also met people who were way better then me at putting groups together much faster than i could and I'd say "holy jamoly where the hell did you find that healer in 2 mins lol!" It took a certain type of person with a willingness to work to make it happen. A lot of the time I could turn what would otherwise be a slower night of waiting on LFG into a duo then trio and then before you know it ok, all we need is a proper tank, but my pet can tank for now... lets go :)
With a current day fancy LFG tool maybe this concept is pointless if it is automated... but I'm still hoping it is not automated and we get a tool that allows us to better connect to each other but not thrown in to a "waiting to form group" countdown.
So basically we are in favor of having boxing make groups up of 6 to fill the roles that are missing? Ill go invest in 6 accounts now if thats the case. Point being is we should complain. A good system has to be developed in order to curve some of the downtime involved. I am not saying we have auto port to group, or anything along those lines. I am simply saying, a summoner will not be useful as he might sit LFG. A bard will be semi useful to tank and spank and CC some mobs. A rogue maybe ok for dps since Kilsin has a 1000 dps backstab :) joking aside rogues can have it just as tough as a Summoner.
Yes we do not know the classes here, but i am saying do i create a class thats needed and forget about the other 10 or more classes just so i dont have to LFG all day?
Remember i am coming from EQ looking down in on Pantheon.. Will i spend 100's of dollars investing in my toon i wish to play, in order to be LFG? i hope not for the sake of all of us.
Should i play a CC, or a tank or a healer this round. I maybe not happy with it, but atleast i might be able to find a group this time.
I just am a cake eater, i am sorry :)
MauvaisOeil said:Trasak said:The challenge of filling groups is one of the reasons I’m heavily in favor of a logarithmic power curve. It would allow lvl 30-50 to group together in a meaningful way, also while allowing the vast majority of content to be used all the way to max level. Sadly it is likely far too late in the design process for Pantheon to adopt such a revolutionary power curve and frankly it works better for a skill point / tree based game rather than a class/level based game.
In what sense is it revolutionnary ? Many mmo made levelling unrewarding because the curve is close to be straight and flat, and even games where it is meant to be linear, end up beeing logarithmics due to major ability unlocks in the first 50%, making the last part only stat stacking with less and less relative benefit each levels.
Revolutionary was a little tongue in cheek, though I have not personally ever played a game designed with an intentional logarithmic power curve other than the "I made it to max level now its time to grind gear" variety. What games have a log power curve that you have played? I'm kind of bored at the moment and would enjoy something to play for a while P99 has lost my interest. It takes a lot of horizontal growth paths at the upper end of the log power curve to make it compelling.
P.S. Don't say pre butchered SWG or I will be a sad panda as I miss it.
Crazzie said:So basically we are in favor of having boxing make groups up of 6 to fill the roles that are missing? Ill go invest in 6 accounts now if thats the case. Point being is we should complain. A good system has to be developed in order to curve some of the downtime involved. I am not saying we have auto port to group, or anything along those lines. I am simply saying, a summoner will not be useful as he might sit LFG. A bard will be semi useful to tank and spank and CC some mobs. A rogue maybe ok for dps since Kilsin has a 1000 dps backstab :) joking aside rogues can have it just as tough as a Summoner.
Yes we do not know the classes here, but i am saying do i create a class thats needed and forget about the other 10 or more classes just so i dont have to LFG all day?
Remember i am coming from EQ looking down in on Pantheon.. Will i spend 100's of dollars investing in my toon i wish to play, in order to be LFG? i hope not for the sake of all of us.
Should i play a CC, or a tank or a healer this round. I maybe not happy with it, but atleast i might be able to find a group this time.
I just am a cake eater, i am sorry :)
I hope that people have been understanding that...multi boxing may be a bit difficult to do in this game. Due to the mob AI and other things.
Crazzie said:So basically we are in favor of having boxing make groups up of 6 to fill the roles that are missing? Ill go invest in 6 accounts now if thats the case. Point being is we should complain. A good system has to be developed in order to curve some of the downtime involved. I am not saying we have auto port to group, or anything along those lines. I am simply saying, a summoner will not be useful as he might sit LFG. A bard will be semi useful to tank and spank and CC some mobs. A rogue maybe ok for dps since Kilsin has a 1000 dps backstab :) joking aside rogues can have it just as tough as a Summoner.
Yes we do not know the classes here, but i am saying do i create a class thats needed and forget about the other 10 or more classes just so i dont have to LFG all day?
Remember i am coming from EQ looking down in on Pantheon.. Will i spend 100's of dollars investing in my toon i wish to play, in order to be LFG? i hope not for the sake of all of us.
I don't think there is a way to satisfy what you are after here without breaking the game down to be trivial instead of challenging.
While groups should be somewhat flexible for a lot of content in terms of class composition, the more flexible it is made the easier the game becomes. The more viable it is to be able to succeed without a tank/healer/etc the easier content becomes when a group actually has a balanced group. If you could down a boss (more so in mid-later levels) with a monk main tanking and two healers then that boss poses far less of a threat/challenge to a group with a primary tank and healer. You can already see some of the intended difficulty in streams where at times running two warriors where they struggle with lack of DPS leading to resources being stretched very thin or just wiping altogether.
There will almost always be some wait for a group but it probably won't be an awful/long slog, and in the event it is then the best thing to do would be make friends with similar play times/schedule or befriend as many tanks/healers as possible if you are a DPS.
Iksar said:There will almost always be some wait for a group but it probably won't be an awful/long slog, and in the event it is then the best thing to do would be make friends with similar play times/schedule or befriend as many tanks/healers as possible if you are a DPS.
This should be true regardless of your chosen class. Make friends! Fill your groups with friends and add new people to the empty slots to make more friends (or add new names to your blacklist). That's the key point to a social MMO. Killing mobs and doing corpse runs just gives you something to talk about :D
@Iksar and Akilae - I completely agree with you guys that it's important to be social and it's important to be smart about being social. Making friends is great, but making friends who you can have a mutually beneficial gaming relationship with is better! However, I think there is still room for improvement on the classic design.
With the quaternity you should need all four pillars to be a really successful top of the line group group, but how much wiggle room do you have in that regard? When Iksar brought up flexibility he talked about missing a pillar (tank). I agree entirely that if you don't have a pillar, then you shouldn't be able to be really successful or else the quaternity only exists in name.
In many games based on the trinity you often want 1 tank, 1 healer, and the rest dps. Will we see the same with Pantheon in a 6 person group?
1-Tank, 2-Healer, 3-CC, 4-DPS, 5-DPS, 6-DPS
If the game could be balanced such that your 5th and 6th slots can be filled by any roles and still be successful, then that would go a very long way towards easing the burden of forming groups. Having a strict requirement for an archetype is a double edged sword if you also have strict limitations on having just one of them. If there's not enough tanks around, then everyone suffers, but if there are too many tanks, then the extra tanks suffer - a brutally rigid system.
I think the quaternity is important, but if 3 DPS are required for each of the additional slots to be successful, then it's a psuedo-hexinity.
Ainadak said:In many games based on the trinity you often want 1 tank, 1 healer, and the rest dps. Will we see the same with Pantheon in a 6 person group?
1-Tank, 2-Healer, 3-CC, 4-DPS, 5-DPS, 6-DPS
If the game could be balanced such that your 5th and 6th slots can be filled by any roles and still be successful, then that would go a very long way towards easing the burden of forming groups. Having a strict requirement for an archetype is a double edged sword if you also have strict limitations on having just one of them. If there's not enough tanks around, then everyone suffers, but if there are too many tanks, then the extra tanks suffer - a brutally rigid system.I think the quaternity is important, but if 3 DPS are required for each of the additional slots to be successful, then it's a psuedo-hexinity.
I'm not entirely convinced (but looking forward to possibly being surprised) that CC/Support will be a major pillar for most content. Unless mobs can't be split without them then I see them as highly beneficial to a group but not really required like a tank/healer/or DPS are (for most of the game anyway, I am sure the harder stuff will require them or players will run out of mana halfway through a named/boss) .
Anyway, that's sort of the issue about challenge I was talking about. In general: if you have total freedom for the last two slots then things aren't likely to be challenging enough since for things to be challenging it has to be hard/tuned for a well put together group, not a ragtag bunch of random classes. That's not to say it should be impossible for random compositions to work; for trash mobs they would likely be able to get by with a bit of extra difficulty and at a slower pace/less efficiency, and some bosses/named if they are very skilled/work well together and communicate as a team.
Iksar said:Ainadak said:In many games based on the trinity you often want 1 tank, 1 healer, and the rest dps. Will we see the same with Pantheon in a 6 person group?
1-Tank, 2-Healer, 3-CC, 4-DPS, 5-DPS, 6-DPS
If the game could be balanced such that your 5th and 6th slots can be filled by any roles and still be successful, then that would go a very long way towards easing the burden of forming groups. Having a strict requirement for an archetype is a double edged sword if you also have strict limitations on having just one of them. If there's not enough tanks around, then everyone suffers, but if there are too many tanks, then the extra tanks suffer - a brutally rigid system.I think the quaternity is important, but if 3 DPS are required for each of the additional slots to be successful, then it's a psuedo-hexinity.
I'm not entirely convinced (but looking forward to possibly being surprised) that CC/Support will be a major pillar for most content. Unless mobs can't be split without them then I see them as highly beneficial to a group but not really required like a tank/healer/or DPS are (for most of the game anyway, I am sure the harder stuff will require them or players will run out of mana halfway through a named/boss) .
Anyway, that's sort of the issue about challenge I was talking about. In general: if you have total freedom for the last two slots then things aren't likely to be challenging enough since for things to be challenging it has to be hard/tuned for a well put together group, not a ragtag bunch of random classes. That's not to say it should be impossible for random compositions to work; for trash mobs they would likely be able to get by with a bit of extra difficulty and at a slower pace/less efficiency, and some bosses/named if they are very skilled/work well together and communicate as a team.
I do think that buffs (haste, etc...) and mana regen can make them as desirable as any pillar due to improving a team way beyond any other present role.
i don't mind help with LFG, but i don't want Anything close to WoW's throw together crap.
The way i see it, if i shout LFG and give level and class in multiple channels and don't get a group. that just means there are no groups right then.
if no group, shout looking to hang with a partner: exploring, crafting etc.
The game has to be true to the original promise or we end up with another me-too-wow-clone. I don't want another solo mmo like wow, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, etc etc etc i can Already play That game.
CanadinaXegony said:There is no holy trinity in Pantheon...the Devs have stated it will be a "quaternity". There will be many more things to do ingame than just bust your behind to get to level cap. If that's all you do then you'll be missing 90% of what the Devs built in this game WORLD.
A few different types of players. Some like to explore, some like to Role Play, and some like to tradeskills. I do trade skills because it requires something in the end, I do not want tradeskills to take over my characters career. So finding different areas to explore, fight in is what i basically am. A raider, a grouper and most of all social.
I did cancel the TLP EQ server, left 2 months on 2 accounts. Not sure i care to really play it, because ill be quiet frank its boring as heck sitting LFG each day for the last 2 weeks. Mage and Enchanter both sat in different areas AFK. Do i suck as a player? nope high dps, or crowd control. It is the simple fact everyone got tanks to 50 asap, logged off and made caster alts or bots. Sadly the majority of LFG are all casters of same levels etc.. Some do not play well, while others get lots of XP for groups. Its not always about the player, and how they socialize, because ill be very honest EQ has no social aspects to it now.
Ainadak said:@Iksar and Akilae - I completely agree with you guys that it's important to be social and it's important to be smart about being social. Making friends is great, but making friends who you can have a mutually beneficial gaming relationship with is better! However, I think there is still room for improvement on the classic design.
With the quaternity you should need all four pillars to be a really successful top of the line group group, but how much wiggle room do you have in that regard? When Iksar brought up flexibility he talked about missing a pillar (tank). I agree entirely that if you don't have a pillar, then you shouldn't be able to be really successful or else the quaternity only exists in name.
In many games based on the trinity you often want 1 tank, 1 healer, and the rest dps. Will we see the same with Pantheon in a 6 person group?
1-Tank, 2-Healer, 3-CC, 4-DPS, 5-DPS, 6-DPS
If the game could be balanced such that your 5th and 6th slots can be filled by any roles and still be successful, then that would go a very long way towards easing the burden of forming groups. Having a strict requirement for an archetype is a double edged sword if you also have strict limitations on having just one of them. If there's not enough tanks around, then everyone suffers, but if there are too many tanks, then the extra tanks suffer - a brutally rigid system.I think the quaternity is important, but if 3 DPS are required for each of the additional slots to be successful, then it's a psuedo-hexinity.
Great points, it also extends to raiding. Will we need to balance out groups in order to fullfill the max dps w/ little downtime. Its important to explore this more. It will make more sense once we are doing it then just talking about it now.
I do not want to sound too negitive as i am so looking forward to Pantheon. Trust me, i want to dive into it head first.
I read what Crazzie wrote, I understand it and I have heard it many times.
But what I really hear is "I want Instant Gratification".
And frankly if Pantheon becomes that, then it has devolved into every other hand-holding, single player, P2W MMO out there. Go play them.
Pantheon is now becoming more like Vanguard and less like EQ as they flesh out the characters, abilties, skills, world effects, environments.
In Vanguard there was always something to do. Solo, couple friends, a group, a raid, crafting, harvesting, building your house, exploring, farming components.
Vanguard took years to even become fully mature. Pantheon as well will grow and mature.
No modern MMO made in the last 12+ years has been truly sandbox like EQ1 (not EQ2 at all) and Vanguard (aside from Mortal Online possibly). Players are too used to theme park MMOs, MMO's on rails. Farmville MMOs.
Truly amazing sandbox MMOs are not instant gratification. They are immersive, time-consumming, requiring lots of labor and time to fully experience the true scope. They require a great deal of social interaction. Reliance on team play, guild involvement. Think many, many months, years, because thats what it took in EQ1 and Vanguard.
Post deleted - not helpful and/or negative.
kreed99 said: I hope the group dynamics will be elaborate enough to encourage irregular groups. I loved random pugs that included hybrid healers and tactical pulls. Efficiency was king.
Thats why i think having a system which encourages people to start groups abnd work them up instead of just wait around for a complete group to invie them is a good thing. And you need people with leadership to start groups and then to run a mixed bag irregular PUG group efficiently.
Venjenz said:zewtastic said:I read what Crazzie wrote, I understand it and I have heard it many times.
But what I really hear is "I want Instant Gratification".
That is indeed the bottom line of this thread and all the various "but you can't have me waiting around with nothing to do" posts.
First of all, EQ1 /lfg worked fine. Prior to mercs, which was like the first 12 years of EQ1 btw, you put up your lfg flag and then did something while you waited because there was plenty to do besides level. IN my enchanter's case, I sat in the building in the North Freeport where I could buy metal and gems and I leveled jewelcrafting. Toss up /lfg, go do tradeskill. Some nights I'd get a group inside 5 minutes, sometimes I'd need 30 minutes, and on a few nights, I tradeskilled until I logged out. Thing is...I always had something to do, and the community and the server conditions on any given day guided what that was. If I did end up doing tradeskills all night, it's because I just went lfg and then did what I really felt like (tradeskilling), taking a group if one popped up, but not that desperate if one didn't. If I was serious about wanting a group, I went to the zones where my level range and archetype had a good shot at groups and I shouted in /ooc every 5 minutes. But I drove the problem and interacted with other players.
THAT'S HOW A COMMUNITY HAPPENS. If you want to level, and that's all you want to do...YOU DRIVE THAT GOAL. Make your own group, go /ooc and ask for more for whatever place you want to grind. Make friends, join a guild, etc. Be proactivce.
How hard is it to go to a popular "everyone comes here as hub" zone, and then search "/who all lfg X Y"? Oh that's right, it isn't hard at all. And if you play a DPS class IN ANY MMO, you're going to wait in queues. FF14, WoW, you name it. Tanks and healers get groups fast because fewer people want to play them, DPS wait in queues. That's life. You make choices, they have upsides and downsides.
If that is too hard, don't play Pantheon, but don't demand Pantheon be an "everybody solos" WoW clone because you want instant gratifatication. Can the old school players get one game that doesn't have 1999 graphoics and require emulators to run? Please?
I have to agree here. All these instant gratification players need to go play games that offer that style of gameplay and stop asking Pantheon to be everything that it is Not. Want 5 min groups? Play a Tank or Healer, not dps. I can almost promise you the game will be Tank light and chanter and cleric heavy (at start)
I am giving Brad Money to make a game that was "old school influenced" (read: like EQ/Vanguard) if shouting for groups is "something you can't do again" simplt don't play pantheon. Wow classic, Ashes of Creation, Bless will all be out before Pantheon. Maybe those will fit better, but please stop asking for a solo game. There are 45 different solo MMO's on the market, we want ONE that ISN'T a solo mmo.
I feel like only a handful of people are actually listening to what Crazzie is saying and the rest are waving the flag for a "I read what you wrote but I am hearing what I want to hear and argue with" approach
I dont think a robust matchmaking system that still requires travel and communication to execute is a bad thing. A more concise version of /who all LFG that (as suggested) also includes comments / notes isnt game breaking and doesnt create easy mode. But of course thats just my opinion
Of course people are right saying that if you choose DPS you will wait longer, but a more robust LFG tool (that doesnt encroach on the tenets) and may bring DPS into groups a bit faster is not really a bad thing.
Crazzie mentioning that there should be some content for solo, duo and use caster groups, and that is actually what there was in EQ so this shouldn't be an end of the world scenario for people following this game.
Lets not get too agro / upset at each other here
Hokanu said:I feel like only a handful of people are actually listening to what Crazzie is saying and the rest are waving the flag for a "I read what you wrote but I am hearing what I want to hear and argue with" approach
I dont think a robust matchmaking system that still requires travel and communication to execute is a bad thing. A more concise version of /who all LFG that (as suggested) also includes comments / notes isnt game breaking and doesnt create easy mode. But of course thats just my opinion
Of course people are right saying that if you choose DPS you will wait longer, but a more robust LFG tool (that doesnt encroach on the tenets) and may bring DPS into groups a bit faster is not really a bad thing.
Crazzie mentioning that there should be some content for solo, duo and use caster groups, and that is actually what there was in EQ so this shouldn't be an end of the world scenario for people following this game.
Lets not get too agro / upset at each other here
Anyway, even with a tool, even with a help from the game to find group, the true winner will be the one that is at the right place, at the right moment, and that tells the good persons.
If you're LFG, and you know where you want to gain experience, you will be favored if you're in the zone /ooc "Good mustard Wizard LF a nice chunk of meat to be spread on", because people will favor your presence (especially if a bit of humor is in), people will remember you, and icing on the cake : /tell the people already grouped if they have room and they will tell you back when it's done.
With non-instant travels, no flypath and no flying mounts, you will allways win if you're already in the zone because people don't want to wait for a replacement thay will come in 10 to 30 min of travel.
Even in EQ/P99, who is using "/who all LFG 20 25 " when you see an /ooc in the zone you are with you group ?
Whatever tools are implemented, I doubt they will be more effective than pure socializing, because they require more keypresses from group leaders, while inviting someone that does most of the "publicity work" isn't.
MauvaisOeil said:Hokanu said:I feel like only a handful of people are actually listening to what Crazzie is saying and the rest are waving the flag for a "I read what you wrote but I am hearing what I want to hear and argue with" approach
I dont think a robust matchmaking system that still requires travel and communication to execute is a bad thing. A more concise version of /who all LFG that (as suggested) also includes comments / notes isnt game breaking and doesnt create easy mode. But of course thats just my opinion
Of course people are right saying that if you choose DPS you will wait longer, but a more robust LFG tool (that doesnt encroach on the tenets) and may bring DPS into groups a bit faster is not really a bad thing.
Crazzie mentioning that there should be some content for solo, duo and use caster groups, and that is actually what there was in EQ so this shouldn't be an end of the world scenario for people following this game.
Lets not get too agro / upset at each other here
Anyway, even with a tool, even with a help from the game to find group, the true winner will be the one that is at the right place, at the right moment, and that tells the good persons.
If you're LFG, and you know where you want to gain experience, you will be favored if you're in the zone /ooc "Good mustard Wizard LF a nice chunk of meat to be spread on", because people will favor your presence (especially if a bit of humor is in), people will remember you, and icing on the cake : /tell the people already grouped if they have room and they will tell you back when it's done.
With non-instant travels, no flypath and no flying mounts, you will allways win if you're already in the zone because people don't want to wait for a replacement thay will come in 10 to 30 min of travel.
Even in EQ/P99, who is using "/who all LFG 20 25 " when you see an /ooc in the zone you are with you group ?
Whatever tools are implemented, I doubt they will be more effective than pure socializing, because they require more keypresses from group leaders, while inviting someone that does most of the "publicity work" isn't.
Thats a different take on it to what i would usually do, but thats good as we all have different approaches to building a group up from either nothing or filling up the last spot in a group. I personally dont wait for /ooc's to make groups, i /who all lfg 20 25 like you said and go and find people who are LFG and invite them. I would though take more of your approach as well if i had no immediate luck and do my own /ooc looking to start a duo or maybe /ooc last spot in x camp. But on top of that i would always /who all lfg i thought most would have used that feature.
But we all have our own approach and thats a good thing, options are always good as long as they dont impact the tenets.
Agreed though that being in the right place at the right time wins the day and that being social is an advantage to someone for getting groups, but also using the /lfg flag puts you in a very good position to get a group.
Personally I have never understood the 'spending hours LFG' issue. I can safely say the only time I ever spent a significant period of time LFG was when I wanted something specific done or was just bein too lazy to actually adventure (e.g. in Unrest, the place is clearly overcrowded and full of groups, but I am in no mood to go elsewhere so simply loitered LFG - my choice). Outside of those situations, grouping was pretty quick. The easiest solution is making friends. At lower levels no one cares about group make up, they simply like to have a full group, as a result my early EQ days had me grouping with a huge variety of people, each time at least half the group would end up on my friendslist and me on theirs. By the time I was reaching the late teens I probably had 30 or so people on my friend list. By the time I was 50 I had to have a notepad....and I am not a very social guy. The challenge ended up being who do I group with rather than can I get a group.
That said, I do not see a Party Builder tool being in anyway detrimental. Yes, you can /ooc, yes you can /LFG and likely you will do both, but also having a tool that lets you fill in more details - playstyle/personality, zone preference - when I put a group together I don't want some hardcore min/maxing geezer in my group and they likely would not want to be in my group either, I don't care about max output or xp/hour. So if I can see like minded individuals LFG rather than simply a list of unknown names LFG, that makes a difference to who I would make contact with - which ultiamtely is hte important part, contact being made rather than a mechanical tool that does it all.
The tool could be zonewide, world wide, lvl based, whatever - it may as well be flexible. Why wouldn't I invite someone halfway across the world? Travel doesn't need to be trivialised for it to work - I don't know about you guys, but when I was in groups, very often people would give warnings of when they had to go. Sometimes it would just be 'after next pull' or 'in 10 minutes' obviously you are not going to invite someone from faraway in those cases, but plenty of times groupmates would say 'hey guys, I have to get going in the next 40 mins, you may want to start trying to find a replacement, I'll drop when they come' in fact this was a common occurance, especially if the person leaving was Healer/CC/Tank, and with that kind of lead time there is no reason to restrict a search to local area only
A few points i read that clearly is mistaken, or in my part disagree with.
1 EQ LFG system is not working right and never has. They put in tools to help with that, and it works for the majority of it. However if you clearly look at the tool they use in EQ it does not display the /who all LFG if you do this /lfg on It only displays your name LFG, it does not add you to the existing master tool. So Clearly that is two things a person must do in order to find players around the world is.
A. /who all LFG 30 40 (which not all players show up in the master tool)
B. /lfg Search for levels in the master tool you want.
I merely wish it to be 1 tool and 1 tool only for all to clearly see who is in the game LFG. This will help missing key classes or people LFG. Not all players sometimes showed up as LFG. Also if you recieved an invite sometimes the LFG goes off. OR did at one time. It clearly isnt a perfect system but players had to adapt to it.
2. Points being we want everything at our finger tips is clearly not what we want. Remember i am a raider, grouper and a power lvler. I like to play the games, I like to explore and dab into quests etc.. We have many different play styles, some of which clearly is solo, and when they need a group cant find one. Yes i agree friends are important and guilds.
This comment, i couldnt disagree with more.
zewtastic said:
I read what Crazzie wrote, I understand it and I have heard it many times.
But what I really hear is "I want Instant Gratification".
You clearly have no idea how i play or how much i put into a game. I was and am in part a Hardcore raider. I look for groups all the time, to progress. I meet great people all over the world to play with. Most of my time i felt gets tied up in with the guilds i join.... however of late i have to explain why i feel things have changed so much in games like EQ.
1. Krono taken over the need to explore and get that special item as a group.... so people now go for the ultimate goal Krono!! it has hurt the game of EQ and the TLP server. People trade and sell them offline in the dozens. Sadly, a good payment system turned to mush... So farming items with boxers, exploiters is the way now. You dont find a group this way... they have taken over the spawns or trained you to get those spawns.
2. Warriors progressed fast within the month, some clerics, and enchanters. The next phase of players 1 month behind move on to level up then there is a gap of players from 30-50 that no longer have tanks to play with or key classes for those areas. Everyone parked the tanks needed and re rolled Caster DPS for farming. So clearly that is a unique change in a once grand master MMO game.
3. Some players are lazy with the make up of groups. They do not wish to create a new one due to the fact we have no CC, No cleric/healer, and no Tank. The 3 classes i mentioned earlier that need to makeup the group in a dungeon. Some outdoor stuff in classic is not valuable enough due to the low xp gains. So you sit for x3 times your time gaining next to nothing in experience. So the majority sit where the best xp spots are. Nothing wrong with that as everyone loves to progress.
4. Everyone is out to farm the PP and the Krono, and TLP and Krono has made all TLP servers completely a cash cow for those players. We fall into it and they know it. This is why they jump server to server selling krono either offline or trade. Either way its a system that has hurt the grouping aspect of the game.
I really do not want to make this thread about me, or anthing like that. It is in fact a thread about LFG and the problems everyone is having after all these years of makeup. We have not had a decent MMO to date. This is why people are putting so much effort and expence into Pantheon. I am so looking forward to it, but ill be very honest if i am LFG all the time, for weeks on end even with the people i know in guild and or out of guild i just cant do it anymore. If i pick a Mage type class again, which i enjoy i feel it will be hindered by the same old CC, Cleric, Tank groups until we start asking the Devs to open up more spots to fight in. Such is the case outdoor areas.
So many little things we can improve on, and now is the time to make sure we all dont fall into that again like WOW, EQ, Rift, etc.... We all clearly know the problems.
And btw... I am LFG want to group up?
I did forget to mention in part, most of the makeup groups i had where with mostly grouping type players, and then progressed very heavy into guild groups. Moving to try the TLP servers, i have found it has changed so much. More expansions opened up will spread even the over flow of players out to solo, or in part box more.
Such as the Kunark expansion. So going from a dungeon startup to a open patch of mobs clearly starts to spread the pack out where less and less was needed in dungeons, soloing is now invented.
A tool system could give players the ability to add notes such as LFM players in XX zone. or I Am LFG Dungeon XX but willing to travel.. Helps keep us on our toes when we need to fill those spots up fast. Also one thing is group bonus. A full group gives more bonus such as 25% over soloing. So it is important if you want to get xp, then group makeups are important.
I am in no part wanting it to be WOW clone, where as you get 99% bonus for soloing and be 50 in a week. Or EQ live, where as you can get 100 within 30 days and full raid gear. I like it to be hard, but at the same time fullfilling to find a group.