It worked great in EQOA and it wasn't really an illusion of choice. For example ... clerics could dump their extra points into STA. It wasn't "ideal" in the sense that you could achieve higher total mana by putting points into WIS, but it made clerics a little more tanky. As a warrior, I put my extra points into AGI. Either way, EQOA also had "caps" on stats so there wasn't really a right or wrong path. You would eventually hit that cap through gear anyway so it just provided a little variance with what kind of end-game gear you would use depending on how you allocated your points while leveling up.
dorotea said:IMO starting statistics should be permanent. Meaning no option to reroll because you change your mind the way some character customization systems like AA let you respec.
Also IMO - I never say IMHO because I *have* no humble opinions - starting statistics should be significant enough that they are always relevevant. Even in the endgame they should have a measurable impact on your performance. But they shouldn't be so major that anyone but a dedicated min-maxer would care.
If not for the bolded text, I'd probably disagree with this statement. I think it's a fine line to walk, and one that EQ did well. It's important to make stat points meaningful, but if we're not allowing a re-allocation of stat points (re-spec) down the road, it would behoove VR to make them not so meaningful as to potentially and permanently hamstring your character from the get-go.
In EQ, I recall the many conversations for starting races vs class. Paladin, for example, had the dwarf. It was the race with the best starting stats needed for a Paladin tank, and were you to pick a high-elf, it would be an uphill battle at the early levels. Yet at the later levels, with buffs and gear, those differences didn't matter when stat caps were reached. I prefer that.
If we're going to not allow people to re-spec (and I agree, the stats you choose are the stats you're stuck with), I think it's important to not make stats so game-breaking that a level 50 warrior will need to either re-roll, or be a paper tank. And yet, they also must be impactful at the same time. As I said, a fine line.
With that said, Vanguard has stat allocation every X amount of levels. EQ did not. No telling what VR will choose to do, and while I do ENJOY allocating stats at certain levels, I'm not sure which one I'd prefer from a balancing perspective. Maybe take a page out of DnD and only allow it at certain levels with minimum increase.
To wit: The Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 10th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can’t increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.
I'd rather that approach, but I would be fine with no stat allocation other than the initial.
My opinion is that I prefer stat allocation to occur one time, at character creation. I thought EQ1 hit it out of the park between early stat allocation and racial abilities. It made choosing a race important and strategic. I thought it was especially awesome with the hybrid classes. Did you want to do an INT dump so that you could cast more spells, did you go with STA for hps, or STR for damage. The goal for VR will be to make classes multi-faceted. If someone goes all in on a Wisdom Paladin, they need to be a more competent healer compared to the more tanky Paladin that went all in on Stamina, both options need to be viable.
I am firmly against re-speccing. Feel like that was one of the worst things to ever hit the genre.
oneADseven said:It worked great in EQOA and it wasn't really an illusion of choice. For example ... clerics could dump their extra points into STA. It wasn't "ideal" in the sense that you could achieve higher total mana by putting points into WIS, but it made clerics a little more tanky. As a warrior, I put my extra points into AGI. Either way, EQOA also had "caps" on stats so there wasn't really a right or wrong path. You would eventually hit that cap through gear anyway so it just provided a little variance with what kind of end-game gear you would use depending on how you allocated your points while leveling up.
I pretty much agree with almost every post 187 has made throughout these forums; maybe it's just the EQOA background. :) ::shrugs::
Anyways, to add something to this thread. There is mentioned of reallocation of stats later in a character's life and I am one to think that there should be reallocation, but with a caveat. In EQOA's later years, the devs implemented a NPC that you could talk to and just respec over and over and over. I'm not so keen on that idea, but rather, how the respec worked in the beginning. There were various, extremely rare, items that would drop throughout the world that you can take to an NPC to begin a quest, that would allow you 1 respec for that item. The item that comes to mind is Rose of Renewal. This item was, once again, extremely rare and was something you needed to farm if you wanted to respec you character. I think that allows the player to earn their character respec, but not make it so easy that they can just start applying points all over the place when leveling/building their character in the beginning. I personally enjoy the idea of stat allocation/distrubution, but would like to have some way to respec later on, just for that one instance where you completely messed up your character, but are too far along to delete and start over. The progeny system could resolve some of this, but we'll just have to see.