I'm just watching the stream with TheHiveLeader and I have to say I liked the concept he brought up.
He said he noticed that when he cast a heal he could change target mid-cast and the heal would go off on the changed target.
He liked it that way, it gave more flexibility in energencies and I have to say I like the concept too.
I realise it changes the game up, so maybe it should be a different spell, but it would certainly be interesting, as a healer, to have the option of thinking, "ok, everyone is damaged, I'm we're getting multiple adds, so I'll just keep starting my flexi-heal and assign the target at the last second to whoever is most desperate".
Maybe a 'static' (fixed target) heal should be more effective, but I do like the idea/option of the 'flexi' heal and I'm not sure I've ever seen it in another MMO as an intentional and inovative mechanic.
I am used to saving at least one instant heal for emergencies (usually tank emergencies) and cancelling what I am casting and tossing that heal in a crisis. Or if things are going reasonably calmly but I expect bad things to happen one of these minutes casting a longer cast powerful heal on the tank and cancelling it if not needed. What you describe is an interesting alternative that lets the healer be active without risking the tank too much.
disposalist said:He said he noticed that when he cast a heal he could change target mid-cast and the heal would go off on the changed target.
Yeah, that was funny, he was like "This is a cool feature, I like it." Chris is like "It's a bug." lol...
But I like it too. Hope they leave that "bug" in there. What I find interesting about this, and it could be a reason not to have this type of healing in there, is because you can constantly keep casting heals and just switch targets. If you had enough mana regen, you could never stop healing and all you'd have to do is click on the target you want healed. So there is that....
I understand why it would be attractive, but it would negate the need to have 'quick heal' lines. Also keep in mind that cast time etc. is factored into balance. If you can just quickly change your target at the last second, then cast time becomes virtually meaningless.
I think it should be fixed. When you target someone and cast a spell, that is who you are committed to targeting with the spell. It's part of the strategy of playing your class well.
Kittik said:disposalist said:He said he noticed that when he cast a heal he could change target mid-cast and the heal would go off on the changed target.
Yeah, that was funny, he was like "This is a cool feature, I like it." Chris is like "It's a bug." lol...
But I like it too. Hope they leave that "bug" in there. What I find interesting about this, and it could be a reason not to have this type of healing in there, is because you can constantly keep casting heals and just switch targets. If you had enough mana regen, you could never stop healing and all you'd have to do is click on the target you want healed. So there is that....
Lol, I may not understand this comment very clearly... if you had enough mana regen you could never stop healing, well... yeah... since heals cost mana lol... Like I said, i may not be understanding this comment and may need some clarity here, because if you have to click the target you want to heal, and if you have enough mana regen with or without this bug you could never stop healing, but i highly doubt the devs will allow that anyways. But not sure what you are getting at here, the post may sound dickish but it is not intended that way, im not very good with words lol.
disposalist said:I'm just watching the stream with TheHiveLeader and I have to say I liked the concept he brought up.
He said he noticed that when he cast a heal he could change target mid-cast and the heal would go off on the changed target.
He liked it that way, it gave more flexibility in energencies and I have to say I like the concept too.
I realise it changes the game up, so maybe it should be a different spell, but it would certainly be interesting, as a healer, to have the option of thinking, "ok, everyone is damaged, I'm we're getting multiple adds, so I'll just keep starting my flexi-heal and assign the target at the last second to whoever is most desperate".
Maybe a 'static' (fixed target) heal should be more effective, but I do like the idea/option of the 'flexi' heal and I'm not sure I've ever seen it in another MMO as an intentional and inovative mechanic.
Yes I kind of like that idea too. :)
It's an interesting idea for a mechanic, but I hope that if it is implemented that they will at least have a toggle so that the player can use the "traditional" mechanic if they want to. I know there would be many times when I would want to select a new target before the first heal goes off on my intended first target, just to stay ahead of things.
Dubah said:I may not understand this comment very clearly... if you had enough mana regen you could never stop healing, well... yeah... since heals cost mana lol... Like I said, i may not be understanding this comment and may need some clarity here, because if you have to click the target you want to heal, and if you have enough mana regen with or without this bug you could never stop healing, but i highly doubt the devs will allow that anyways. But not sure what you are getting at here, the post may sound dickish but it is not intended that way, im not very good with words lol.
Didn't come off as dickish at all. I'm not the best at putting my thoughts down on paper.
With this "bug" you can have a constant never ending flow of a heal going. If you have a +50 hp heal, that cost 10 mana and takes 3 seconds to cast, or you have a +150 hp heal, that costs 30 mana but takes 9 seconds to cast, you are going to constantly spam the 3 second one, regardless of who needs a heal. Because with this "bug" if you see someone else that needs hp, you don't have to let the heal end you just click on who needs the hp now.
I think this pinpoints the stress of being a healer, namely the decisions a good healer needs to make in a group situation and who gets what first. As a mage I would always tell the healer in a group to let me die because I knew if things went south- if a portion of the group could survive like the tank and cleric and maybe one more- we had a chance at recouping fairly quickly. Likewise if there was some CC and we had 4 mobs in camp and tank was low health and one monster broke mez- the CC would come first with an eye on the warrior knowing the warrior could take a few more hits before she absolutely needed a heal.
Also I think part of the stress of being a healer is getting the knack of timing when you can cast those heals in a tight situation by not waiting for the timer to run out or looking at a timer but rather keeping eyes on the group members and fretting over the 2 seconds left when you mouse pover the heal spell gem to cast that one fast cure to the ancilary member so you can wallop the warrior with a full heal right after 'cos once the warior sees that full heal, then she'll start tauning everything untill things get settled down a bit.
And on top of all this most healers I knew feel badly or consider it a gauge of their own playerability if they lose ANY member in a group. Often that is not the case at all from the other group members perspective but i've noticed it. For instance on a particularly bad pull where we just barely managed and I was "purpled" even though I mentioned ahead of time I was going to sacrifice to buy time. I chided the cleric a little- secretly- and the only thing he said in group was " I need to med" and the warrior chimed in right behind and called a med break.
heh, when the cleric needs to med- we all med wether we need it or not, those that dont, stand and keep eyes up.
I'm with HiveLeader on this one: PLEASE leave it in as a feature. From a lore standpoint, it seems natural to me that a cleric could channel divine powers and decide at the last moment where to channel it. I disagree with the premise that it would negate the need for quick heals. As someone who has played healer classes for MANY years across MANY games, any and all heals have a time and place, but quick heals in particular will never go out of style, regardless of a player's ability to change targets for a long/large heal mid-cast. Likewise, huge heals will also always have a place. Throwing small heals in perpetuity at a tank with double the HP of other party members won't be efficient, as you'll spend all your time dumping small heals instead of buffing, damaging, etc. Also, I'm sure there are lots of other encounters similar to Fion in Black Rock Keep that are tank-busters, and no amount of small heal spam is going to keep the tank up for that kind of fight.
Kittik said:Dubah said:I may not understand this comment very clearly... if you had enough mana regen you could never stop healing, well... yeah... since heals cost mana lol... Like I said, i may not be understanding this comment and may need some clarity here, because if you have to click the target you want to heal, and if you have enough mana regen with or without this bug you could never stop healing, but i highly doubt the devs will allow that anyways. But not sure what you are getting at here, the post may sound dickish but it is not intended that way, im not very good with words lol.Didn't come off as dickish at all. I'm not the best at putting my thoughts down on paper.
With this "bug" you can have a constant never ending flow of a heal going. If you have a +50 hp heal, that cost 10 mana and takes 3 seconds to cast, or you have a +150 hp heal, that costs 30 mana but takes 9 seconds to cast, you are going to constantly spam the 3 second one, regardless of who needs a heal. Because with this "bug" if you see someone else that needs hp, you don't have to let the heal end you just click on who needs the hp now.
Good, i didn't want it to be dickish lol, but it sounded like to me, so i just wanted to clarify that.
But, that being said, your point makes sense. I guess it depends on how cast times and heals are gonna be dealt with, maybe they won't have a 9 second cast time heal... i dunno, but the thought process makes sense, thanks for clarifying
EDIT: Didn't think about this til like 2 minutes after i posted lol, but you gotta remember I'm sure there will be healing aggro, so if you are constantly healing you are gonna make the tanks life difficult.
As a long time healer I'd rather have the "old style" where your target at the start of the cast is the target and you either cancel or let it go. Planning ahead and choosing the "right" spell for the encounter situation is part of being a good healer. Being able to change target at the last instant takes away from that and, as has already been said, could easily make certain spells obsolete.
Long time healer here too and cool as that feature is, it's definitely not working as intended heh.
I would rather see a "stop ability/stop cast" hotkey or macro (akin to EQ) where; if you're mid cast on your tank and all of a sudden you need to emergency switch targets to your enchanter you simply key your macro/hotkey to stop your cast, swtich targets and bob's your uncle. <3
vjek said:Can you elaborate on what you mean by this? What exploitive situations would negate the cast time or make it virtually meaningless?
Without knowing the exact mechanics of the game I'm going to have to make up numbers.
Say you are in the middle of casting a higher powered, higher cast time heal spell on the tank, and there is 1 second left till it lands. You notice the Enchanter just got pwned by a DPS burst and needs a heal NOW.
In this situation, if say a quick heal spell is 2 second cast, which is the heal that you should use in that situation, but instead you click over to the new target and get the heal in 1 second instead. You now landed a much higher level heal in essentially 1 second. Not only is that faster than the balanced quick heal spell, but the amount of healing for that time is also significantly higher. You've broken 2 sets of balance issues here; cast duration and amount healed for that cast duration.
I don't think *all* heals should work like this - most should be 'fixed' - but it might be interesting to have one, or maybe a line of heals that work like this.
You might have to introduce some other disadvantage though, for sure, else you would see healers just constantly starting the flexi-heal and waiting to see if someone needs a heal, then cancelling if not and starting another just-in-case.
Another thougth strikes me now...
What about a heal that you can 'spray' amongst multiple targets as you channel it? :) It heals X amount per tenth of a second, can be channeled for 10 seconds and can be targetted as you like during those 10 seconds?
I don't remember ever seeing that mechanic either...
disposalist said:I don't think *all* heals should work like this - most should be 'fixed' - but it might be interesting to have one, or maybe a line of heals that work like this.
You might have to introduce some other disadvantage though, for sure, else you would see healers just constantly starting the flexi-heal and waiting to see if someone needs a heal, then cancelling if not and starting another just-in-case.
Another thougth strikes me now...
What about a heal that you can 'spray' amongst multiple targets as you channel it? :) It heals X amount per tenth of a second, can be channeled for 10 seconds and can be targetted as you like during those 10 seconds?
I don't remember ever seeing that mechanic either...
Might be cool but it would have to have some real drawbacks (cooldown, highly inefficient, poor output, vulnerability of some sort while channeling, or other stuff the devs could come up with) to keep it from being spammed as the default healing method.
bigdogchris said:Without knowing the exact mechanics of the game I'm going to have to make up numbers.
Say you are in the middle of casting a higher powered, higher cast time heal spell on the tank, and there is 1 second left till it lands. You notice the Enchanter just got pwned by a DPS burst and needs a heal NOW.
In this situation, if say a quick heal spell is 2 second cast, which is the heal that you should use in that situation, but instead you click over to the new target and get the heal in 1 second instead. You now landed a much higher level heal in essentially 1 second. Not only is that faster than the balanced quick heal spell, but the amount of healing for that time is also significantly higher. You've broken 2 sets of balance issues here; cast duration and amount healed for that cast duration.
They could also balance combat with it in mind. Harder to control/more random aggro swaps (even temporary) or just more damage going out to non-tanks in general. Like the Cohh stream from the Tower of the Reckless Magician where the caster mob turned and pretty much one-shot the wizard. A skilled and attentive healer could see it going down and react in the last second swapping to save the wizard instead of landing the heal on the tank. Fights could be tuned to a tighter difficulty requiring more awareness.
Saicred said:I believe this makes Large Direct Heals way too Powerful. Period.
Agreed, but the mechanic itself intrigued me and I think it could work as an alternative. Much like healers can often choose single-target, group-target, AoE, etc this would add flexi-target and my second concept multi-target (where you can 'spray' heals by changing target as you channel a HoT. splash it all on one or move around all or some of the group). Of course they would have to have balance - pros and cons, risk vs reward - but just as more traditional single, group and AoE do.
More options = more tactical choice!
If implemented, I could see this raise the question if this would be Cleric only or if other casters, even ranged classes, should have it too.
Could it be argued that an Enchanter would benefit from being able to quickly change target when needing to mess in a situation where a dangerous add joins the fight?
Could you argue likewise for other classes?
Never played a healer but this discussion just raised these thoughts.
-sorte.
It is interesting, of course, but it also breaks the basic of casting as said (I think joppa) it removes the planning associated with casting. If it becomes an option it will be clearly superior to traditionnal targetting, so what would be the drawback here ? It will heavily reduce overhealing by making you able to change your target mid cast for a more injuried one, making also use of cooldowns withouth an hesitation.
Not really fond of, the basic of casting have allways been "choose properly your target and anticipate the situation", and the only situation in which I would consider that an "option", is when as a caster, you begin a cast and your target dies (just because it's overly frustrating to cancel your cast and retry on an other target).
Also the game emphasis on proper pace and preparation, and this "bug" goes straigth into the more action heavy focused games.