Hi guys,
I wanted to request something more than just looking at the stamina bar at the upper left for combat. If it would be possible to add more mechanics that would add visual queues for added combat experience that would be fantastic.
For example:
Wizard wants to cast a spell, this spell is based on player holding the button down. Character glows, charging up the spell and when max glow is reached, releases the spell.
Rogue wants to know when to stack more poison, the rogue's frame will have a quick burst of brief green outline indicating it's ready again.
Bard wants to know what spell he's casting, look at the musical notes in the air.
Warrior wants to know when the monster is losing agro, the warrior gets a display outline on the monster in brief flash of yellow indicating he's losing threat and needs to smash button harder.
Cleric wants to know if he needs to recast shield on the group, just have the spell itself give a faint shimmer to the players who have it active
Ranger wants to know if his roots are breaking? have the roots snap one by one, or two by two (total of 3-4 roots randomly appear) to indicate when the ranger needs to re-root.
Necromancer is able to force visual views on other players during fear when they flee
Enchanter's mez effect be a cloud that starts to disappate when the mez effect is wearing off, from 100% oppacity to 50% to 0%.
etc...
Thanks guys, if you have any visual ideas as well please lets hear them.
LordJJ
Squall said:philo said: Why? I'm not understanding the reason for this suggestion...
I assume to add more depth to combat. Im not really thrilled about the idea though. It seems tedious more than anything (no offense to the OP)
Would it add more depth? Seems like it would just add a bunch of extra visual effects.
I like some of these suggestions, some not so much. I know they are working on some things just like these but I'm just not sure the depth. Since it's Pre-Alpha they probably aren't sure of the depth yet either.
Mez has a cloud right now, i think it just drops instead of fades... I like the fade Idea.
The Warrior already get's a red outline around the screen to designate agro, I agree it would be nice to see it fade as there agro fades. I wouldn't like to see it as an outline around the Mob.
Some games give a numerical indicator for how much your agro compares to the warrior, or when the Poison or Mez is going to drop. I prefer not to have that much hand holding in the game, but I would find a visual cue (as you mention or the old arbitrary blinking Icon) a nice in between.
Possibly even connected to your perception skill.
Squall said:ZOrkon, wouldnt a text notice like in old eq suffice?
Sure, probably would.
But wouldn't the graphic representation be much more immersive?
I think the text notice would still need to be used, as some with lesser graphic cards will need to tone down the particle effects.
It's an extension of the idea that your target is lit up with a glowing red circle. I like it and why not?
As with most ideas, the answer may be "both". I would like to see more 'realistic' and non-UI-based cues but, as people have said, it can get very confusing.
Unless the confusion is going to be an intentional part of the challenge of combat ("Guys! Don't put too many debuffs on the boss! I can't tell when he's building up to breath fire!) which I don't think would actually be a bad thing, then we should have the usual progress bar UI elements *as well* so most of the time you can be looking at the combat, not the buttons and bars, but if it gets confusing you can glance at the UI.
To some extent I agree with the sentiment of this post, though I do not like all of the examples given. They do seem to do nothing but add visual effects to the UI, which I do not like.
What I would like to see is ACTUAL visual queues from the characters and NPCs. If I have an ability that is only usable after I dodge, I would like my character to ACTUALLY dodge, which would then be my visual queue to use that ability. Instead of looking at the hotbar and waiting for that ability to "light up" when it becomes usable.
Spells might be a little harder to do. Maybe have a special effect for each spell line, assuming spell lines will share effects, for a resist. If I cast a mez and it gets resisted maybe have a bit of a flashy fizzle-ish looking effect.
The goal of any visual queue in my opinion should be to prevent me from having to look at the UI. The less I have to check my hotbar or the other UI elements the better. However just changing which UI element I look at seems pointless.
Celandor said:Zorkon said:The Warrior already get's a red outline around the screen to designate agro...
Are you certain on that? I was under the impression that the red border was just an in-combat indicator.
Pretty sure! I recall in one of the last two streams Brad (I think it was) asking the player (Jim I think it was) if he had agro, he didn't know how to tell so Brad said "Red boarder around the screen"
I rewatched most of the Jim Lee stream last night looking for that exact moment but couldent find it... that's why I'm not sure now if it was with Jim or Coh. I thought for sure it was Jim... but I also don't have time to watch another 2 hour stream today...
Also couldent find it in Baz's recap of Coh stream.
It's in the last two streams.
Edit: Clarification... it may not be just a Warrior thing... "if you have agro the edge of your screen turns red" is what was said.
Zorkon said:Celandor said:Zorkon said:The Warrior already get's a red outline around the screen to designate agro...
Are you certain on that? I was under the impression that the red border was just an in-combat indicator.
Pretty sure! I recall in one of the last two streams Brad (I think it was) asking the player (Jim I think it was) if he had agro, he didn't know how to tell so Brad said "Red boarder around the screen"
I rewatched most of the Jim Lee stream last night looking for that exact moment but couldent find it... that's why I'm not sure now if it was with Jim or Coh. I thought for sure it was Jim... but I also don't have time to watch another 2 hour stream today...
Also couldent find it in Baz's recap of Coh stream.
It's in the last two streams.
Edit: Clarification... it may not be just a Warrior thing... "if you have agro the edge of your screen turns red" is what was said.
Yeah that's not just a Warrior thing - applies to any player on the aggro table. I didn't include it in the recap because that's actually a feature that's been in the game since last year.
In regards to the OP, as with any UI feature, I don't mind it as long as there is an option to turn it off. Personally, I would turn this sort of thing off ASAP. I would find it very distracting to have flashing lines around models. Any immersion junkie would claim it's ruining their immersion. It's also important to consider how ineffective or confusing color coding can be for the many players that have color blindness.
But more to the point, VR's goal for combat is already to make you play the game and not the UI. You should be spending your time being aware of your surroundings and thinking tactically. If combat is designed as planned, all of these extra tells wouldn't even be necessary in the first place. It's still early, so the extra layers to add more depth to combat haven't been implemented yet, but they're coming. No point in trying to solve problems that we don't know will exist yet :)
I like the idea of visual cues provided that they are not overly flashy or distracting. It is nice to gain information in ways other than looking at cool down timers, buff timers, or the chat box. That is what this thread boils down to for me; can VR find a visual way of conveying information to the player without making the screen too busy?
One thing that I do like and which I think VR will incorporate is having varied effects for different skills. I hate when every spell cast looks the same - maybe they change the color or particle effect, but the character movements are identical. I hate when every strike looks the same, i.e. back stab looks just like an auto attack. I want the movements of the character to tell me a story about what they are doing, not just be repetitive, homogeneous animations.
Xbachs said:I like the idea of visual cues provided that they are not overly flashy or distracting. It is nice to gain information in ways other than looking at cool down timers, buff timers, or the chat box. That is what this thread boils down to for me; can VR find a visual way of conveying information to the player without making the screen too busy?
One thing that I do like and which I think VR will incorporate is having varied effects for different skills. I hate when every spell cast looks the same - maybe they change the color or particle effect, but the character movements are identical. I hate when every strike looks the same, i.e. back stab looks just like an auto attack. I want the movements of the character to tell me a story about what they are doing, not just be repetitive, homogeneous animations.
Agreed. I actually don't mind a bunch of spell/particle effects as long as you can differentiate them and tell what's going on. I'd much rather see actually well-crafted, immersive visual effects (like seeing the Roots snap) instead of artificial flashing borders around models. Tbh I'm not even a huge fan of effects icons over a mob's head, but sometimes it's kind of a necessary evil imo.
Bazgrim said:Agreed. I actually don't mind a bunch of spell/particle effects as long as you can differentiate them and tell what's going on. I'd much rather see actually well-crafted, immersive visual effects (like seeing the Roots snap) instead of artificial flashing borders around models. Tbh I'm not even a huge fan of effects icons over a mob's head, but sometimes it's kind of a necessary evil imo.
I share the sentiment, visual queues done trought ingame immersive spells effects/particles are great, don't make emmersion and help understand what's going on in your surrondings, But having flashing boders around the models or any sort of uncecessary UI element would be terrible (make it an option at best but I believe it has no place in the game).
But I disagree on the effects icons over the mob's head being a necessary evil, they can easily be placed in other parts of the UI, in much less intrusive places, and still convey the same info.
Here's an example of a cleaner UI I made in Photoshop (without the debuff icons above the targets head) - https://imgur.com/8LCHnnm
jpedrote said:Bazgrim said:Agreed. I actually don't mind a bunch of spell/particle effects as long as you can differentiate them and tell what's going on. I'd much rather see actually well-crafted, immersive visual effects (like seeing the Roots snap) instead of artificial flashing borders around models. Tbh I'm not even a huge fan of effects icons over a mob's head, but sometimes it's kind of a necessary evil imo.
I share the sentiment, visual queues done trought ingame immersive spells effects/particles are great, don't make emmersion and help understand what's going on in your surrondings, But having flashing boders around the models or any sort of uncecessary UI element would be terrible (make it an option at best but I believe it has no place in the game).
But I disagree on the effects icons over the mob's head being a necessary evil, they can easily be placed in other parts of the UI, in much less intrusive places, and still convey the same info.
Here's an example of a cleaner UI I made in Photoshop (without the debuff icons above the targets head) - https://imgur.com/8LCHnnm
Yes effect icons are definitely necessary, just not right in the middle of the screen/in the world above mobs heads. I'd much rather have to move my eyes to see them in an effects panel on the side of the screen than seeing them float in the air. But like I said, the best thing is to just give players multiple options so they can interact with the UI in whatever way is best for them.
Agreed I wouldn't want a glow surrounding the mob or something else so phony or intrusive. But a NATURAL cue like the roots or the Mez cloud would be great.
And love your photoshop Jpedrote, that is a lot cleaner.
(SIDE NOTE: I have often wondered why the char and mob names have to be above the head? Wouldn't that work just as well and less intrusive below or at the feet?)
Xbachs said:I like the idea of visual cues provided that they are not overly flashy or distracting. It is nice to gain information in ways other than looking at cool down timers, buff timers, or the chat box. That is what this thread boils down to for me; can VR find a visual way of conveying information to the player without making the screen too busy?
One thing that I do like and which I think VR will incorporate is having varied effects for different skills. I hate when every spell cast looks the same - maybe they change the color or particle effect, but the character movements are identical. I hate when every strike looks the same, i.e. back stab looks just like an auto attack. I want the movements of the character to tell me a story about what they are doing, not just be repetitive, homogeneous animations.
Hi everyone,
thank you all for posting and you are all correct with your points. I think XBachs said it best of my intentions. This was meant to not be distracting and is another way to gain information. I think we are at that point in technology where we can have more than just models swinging in the air and thrusting their fists forward when they cast a spell haha :)
LordJJ
Zorkon said:Agreed I wouldn't want a glow surrounding the mob or something else so phony or intrusive. But a NATURAL cue like the roots or the Mez cloud would be great.
And love your photoshop Jpedrote, that is a lot cleaner.
(SIDE NOTE: I have often wondered why the char and mob names have to be above the head? Wouldn't that work just as well and less intrusive below or at the feet?)
Whoops, I didn't mean to imply that it's a glow that persists. It's supposed to be a flash that is gone within a second but if you catch the glow you'd understand what it meant. Just like XBachs said, this is meant to add to the information but not distract. If it was a persistent glow that would cripple the game. We need queues, not handicaps. So I'm suggesting subtle visual queues and nothing over-powering. Just stuff we would expect to see in a fantasy world with spells.
LordJJ
LordJJ said:Xbachs said:I like the idea of visual cues provided that they are not overly flashy or distracting. It is nice to gain information in ways other than looking at cool down timers, buff timers, or the chat box. That is what this thread boils down to for me; can VR find a visual way of conveying information to the player without making the screen too busy?
One thing that I do like and which I think VR will incorporate is having varied effects for different skills. I hate when every spell cast looks the same - maybe they change the color or particle effect, but the character movements are identical. I hate when every strike looks the same, i.e. back stab looks just like an auto attack. I want the movements of the character to tell me a story about what they are doing, not just be repetitive, homogeneous animations.
Hi everyone,
thank you all for posting and you are all correct with your points. I think XBachs said it best of my intentions. This was meant to not be distracting and is another way to gain information. I think we are at that point in technology where we can have more than just models swinging in the air and thrusting their fists forward when they cast a spell haha :)
LordJJ
Gotcha. Fortunately, by the looks of the last stream, it seems like they are already well on their way to accomplishing this :)
I like your idea especially re: the time remaining on a persistant spell being represented by the spells visual effect on screen. The orb slowly diminishing as mez runs out, the chains breaking one by one as root runs out etc etc.. would be cool and would allow us to over time as we learn the effects to be able to focus on the action instead of on the debuff icon counters on the target / hp.
Hokanu said:I like your idea especially re: the time remaining on a persistant spell being represented by the spells visual effect on screen. The orb slowly diminishing as mez runs out, the chains breaking one by one as root runs out etc etc.. would be cool and would allow us to over time as we learn the effects to be able to focus on the action instead of on the debuff icon counters on the target / hp.
Not sure this works so well/it would be unreliable making it somewhat useless to pay attention to. It assumes that CC/Mez/Root will last a certain duration when they very likely roll a saving throw each tick so they could break at any second.
Iksar said:Hokanu said:I like your idea especially re: the time remaining on a persistant spell being represented by the spells visual effect on screen. The orb slowly diminishing as mez runs out, the chains breaking one by one as root runs out etc etc.. would be cool and would allow us to over time as we learn the effects to be able to focus on the action instead of on the debuff icon counters on the target / hp.
Not sure this works so well/it would be unreliable making it somewhat useless to pay attention to. It assumes that CC/Mez/Root will last a certain duration when they very likely roll a saving throw each tick so they could break at any second.
Some information is better than no information. There could be a second particle effect when a spell is broken early as a visual warning, other than the mob running over and mowing down your healer. There could also be a different visual spell effect if the mob is likely to break early. In this way you could actually get feedback on your tactics mid fight other than the all or nothing pass/fail.
You might pick a mob to mez but low and behold it has the “tunnel vision” disposition and once it agros, it locks onto a target and is very difficult to mez. When you see the alternate color mez spell effect you know it’s virtually just a stun and you need to pick a different target to CC because this one is not going to work.