Someimes I just dont want to interface with everyone. I might be busy ot I might not want to.
Voice chat doesnt "ruin"a game unless mantory. If you are PVPing or better yet RVRing, it is a blast to have chat
3)In a 'voice group' someone not using voice will be even more isolated than if there was no voice chat at all
This all depends on your guild and if they are considerate enough to make sure the ones without chat are included.
LeeLoo said:Someimes I just dont want to interface with everyone. I might be busy ot I might not want to.
Voice chat doesnt "ruin"a game unless mantory. If you are PVPing or better yet RVRing, it is a blast to have chat
3)In a 'voice group' someone not using voice will be even more isolated than if there was no voice chat at all
This all depends on your guild and if they are considerate enough to make sure the ones without chat are included.
Your last point was a great one. Far to many people get bent out of shape over that.
Ox
I have seen all configurations from groups with boxing teams to groups that were at LAN parties. I'll listen to the chatter and i can handle silence if i am informed beforehand, or given the option of turning off useless chatter. I also have a bad habit of not focusing when talking. People tell me i cant talk and think at the same time, but i can type and think at the same time. So i have become accustomed to typing and staying silent so that people get the most of me. I can talk, just i feel people get my best qualities when i do not. So any sort of required voice chat game would ruin the game for me.
As someone who gets a bit of tunnel vision in combat, voice chat is a must... for me. I can't type strategy and fight the boss in an emergant situation. Its a personal flaw.
I totally agree that it should be optional, and not everyone wants to be in chat. But I am absolutely adamant that Pantheon should have a VoIP system that ships with the client, weather they build it themselves or integrate someone else's system. It should be a one click option when you join a new group, not a "hold on wait, I have Mumble - not Discord. No I don't have Vent either. Have a link? I'll start downloading it..."
If people don't want to get in chat great, but for those who do it should be an easy setup. This helps build community and keeps people like me part of the fight.
I'm not a fan of VC for the numerous reasons people already posted above but I am not concerned. It will be a unused feature just like the other MMO's VC. Any guild worth 2 bits will have it's own vent, mumble, etc. which is far superior. I will not be using the game's VC option.
Typing in this game will be easier to do compared to many new MMOs.
The best solution is to be the leader of your group, have a fast typing speed, know what you're doing...and write interesting/funny things. There will be little reason to use voice chat if text is working.
Anything that is typed can be re-read. Voice chat is hard to decipher at times, not recorded, and can be too emotionally charged. If someone did not get the "memo", one has to repeat it again.
If everything is typed the entire group/raid can be saved in text format. Saving from video slows the computer and takes space on the HD, and only one person would feel compelled to do that.
We'll have to see for ourselves the pace of this game's combat before we can say voice chat is useful or useless. The biggest negative from typing is not typing itself...it's making sure everyone is reading. If voice chat is rampart fewer people will want to read.
Kurgon999 said:As someone who gets a bit of tunnel vision in combat, voice chat is a must... for me. I can't type strategy and fight the boss in an emergant situation. Its a personal flaw.
I totally agree that it should be optional, and not everyone wants to be in chat. But I am absolutely adamant that Pantheon should have a VoIP system that ships with the client, weather they build it themselves or integrate someone else's system. It should be a one click option when you join a new group, not a "hold on wait, I have Mumble - not Discord. No I don't have Vent either. Have a link? I'll start downloading it..."
If people don't want to get in chat great, but for those who do it should be an easy setup. This helps build community and keeps people like me part of the fight.
You make a solid point. If it's going to be integrated..... do a full integration. Add it to the group window and show if they are muted or not. Add it to the guild window with different options to create different channels. Add it to the raid window. If its going to be done.... do it right.
We use to have highly coordinated successful raids with 80 people without voice chat. It's not needed.
I sure don't want to hear about politics, what drugs the people are currently using, day to day BS. I play these games to escape the real world..... hoping for a server with no voice chat.
andyou always have that one person who is blaringly loud and another who you can't hear at all, add in the open-mic player, the overly chatty person and I will leave voice chat for specific groups of friends, and not use it the rest of the time, except in raid type situations where everyone is muted except the leader(s)
Celandor said:I don't think you can release a game today without acknowledging voice chat.
You probably can't find a major guild who isn't using it to socialize and to run raids.
I personally don't see the need for it at the group level and agree that it's completely immersion-breaking. I don't need to know that Elanil the hot female rogue is actually a trucker named Ralph from DesMoine and that his bong needs refilling.
Things I don't want to hear in voice chat but we've all heard repeatedly:
* Whatever it is that you're eating - chew with your mouse closed and use PTT
* Your water pipe or any discussion of your addiction to anything but Pantheon
* Your opinions on the US President or any other RL political issue
* Your medications, psychosis or any other fascinating aspects of your treatment program
* Whatever you're watching on Netflix or listening to on iTunes.
* Your kids screaming that they haven't been fed since Wednesday and they can't find the baby
* Anyone who can't put two sentences together without constant profanityIf we can accept that we only need voice chat for raiding, then voice chat should be something that's handled through the major VOIP services like Discord or Mumble and not something that the devs feel has to be integrated into the Pantheon client.
I don't want to be forced into voice chat either. The Role Play element is largely killed by voice chat, except in very rare cases. The isolation of no one else using text chat means you're not getting instructions from the group leader or providing input to group decisions and you've lost the Massively Multiplayer community aspect. You started off with an MMORPG and it's been reduced to simply an OG by killing off the RP and MM.
Built-in voice chat puts me between a rock and a hard place. It's the one aspect of Pantheon that I'm least looking forward to. If I want to preserve the immersive quality of the game, it largely forces me to solo and to be anti-social.
I think it's too much to expect that in general pickup groups on most servers that the players are going to behave any differently in voice chat than if they were playing Call of Duty. On the other hand, perhaps on dedicated RP servers, maybe we could expect certain decorum to be followed by everyone in voice chat. Maybe we need a shorthand for groups who are discouraging free-for-all open chat. If the community could come up with some sort of definition/model of acceptable voice chat behaviour for immersive grouping we'd have some sort of convention in place. We'd be a step closer to redefining "anti-social behaviour" to mean unwanted public behaviour rather than making loners out of players.
Maybe I'm just too old school and I'm out of touch with modern gamers?
Old school here, and let me add to your list, some teenager playing his head banger music full blast over chat, while we're trying to listen to our raid leader. Some old fart coughing into the mic constantly..instead of having mic on push to talk. Some other person with open mic, and you can hear the beep beep of the garbage truck backing up to collect garbage...there are many more.
I would PREFER voice chat as a choice, not an enforcement. With all the personalities out there in the game world, that's a lot of noise to put up with. :) Give me the option to block those that I consider doorknobs..incapable of learning to put their mic to PTT...please :)
Cana
Celandor said:Things I don't want to hear in voice chat but we've all heard repeatedly:
* Whatever it is that you're eating - chew with your mouse closed and use PTT
* Your water pipe or any discussion of your addiction to anything but Pantheon
* Your opinions on the US President or any other RL political issue
* Your medications, psychosis or any other fascinating aspects of your treatment program
* Whatever you're watching on Netflix or listening to on iTunes.
* Your kids screaming that they haven't been fed since Wednesday and they can't find the baby
* Anyone who can't put two sentences together without constant profanityIf we can accept that we only need voice chat for raiding, then voice chat should be something that's handled through the major VOIP services like Discord or Mumble and not something that the devs feel has to be integrated into the Pantheon client.
I don't want to be forced into voice chat either. The Role Play element is largely killed by voice chat, except in very rare cases. The isolation of no one else using text chat means you're not getting instructions from the group leader or providing input to group decisions and you've lost the Massively Multiplayer community aspect. You started off with an MMORPG and it's been reduced to simply an OG by killing off the RP and MM.
I was in a top raiding guild in EQ1 for 6+ years, a top raiding guild in WoW for about 2-3 years, never once used voice chat during those times. Every raid command was either typed or hotkeyed, no issues what so ever. But now, it seems players are not capable of completing even the most simplistic task without it. I have over the years been in several groups where people have flirted with Team Speak, Discord or whatever the flavor of that time had been, but until I came back to EQ for Agnarr, I never was in the situation where made it manditory for raiding.
You hit it right on the head with your list of things "I" don't want to hear, all voice chat did was annoy the living piss out of me. I left a very good guild because one officer refused to stop chewing with his mouth open over an open mic and another officer decided it was his own personal forum for trying to shock people with episodes of his alternative lifestyle. What it boils down to is that voice chat (in an MMO or over XBox Live...it doesn't matter) gives a bunch of very stocially disfunctional people, with little to no manors, a way to invade the "normal" peoples lives with their BS.
If it were up to me and the team had the time to created time-travel, I would go back and stab in the face, whomever came up with the idea of voice chat in mmos.....but in reality pandoras box has been opened and there is no way to get people to abandon the idea. I may be getting older, but I have and will migrate to guilds that allow you to only listen to raid commands and more importantly have a "No talking during raids" policy. That being said, if the game turns into a "you must use voice chat" type of game, enforced by mechanics or just players in general, I will not play. My wife already thinks im a big enough of a dork, I don't need to add to that perception =P.
....should add in voice emulators, make that trucker sound like the elf he picked to play =P
Guild chit-chat : I'll be using whatever it is we've adopted at the time. ie: use to be Vent now it's Mumble.
Guild group with a couple PU's : Still be using guild mumble remembering to type instructions for non-guildies.
PUG's : I'll default to typing text as I'll have whatever in-game-voice-chat-tool Pantheon might have set to OFF.
Wandering around the world, travelling, selling stuff in /ooc, asking for a Port or SoW : I'll just type it in /OOC /Shout /trade. Backup plan being asking in Guild Mumble for a port/sow/res... This way for those who have those channels turned off I am not bothering them in any way.
Simple.
Not to step on toes, but I suspect that self-consciousness/phobia and the desire to occasionally be "lazy" (with regards to socializing) are the single largest drivers behind the "No Voice Chat" crowd. TL;DR - skip to "Conclusion"
"Lazy"
I am personally guilty of the later (lazy socializing) because there are times where I simply do not feel like talking - I want to pop into the game, do some grinding and pop back out. Sometimes it feels like voice chats are "making it real", and forming a group or talking comes with strings attached (playing longer than you had intended, sidetracked from your original intentions, etc). Assuming that we are all decent communicators and reasonable people, most newly-formed groups will require introductions. Depending on how things play out, there will likely be some groups you "clique" with and others where you find a person (people) that is outright annoying. Rolling the dice on which way it could play out, every time you group, could get a little exhausting.
"Self-Conscious"
Let’s face it, some people are intimidated by some voices, others are self-conscious that their voice may not be as deep (for men), and poor women - the moment us gaming nerds hear a female voice we lose all sense of composure. The "I don’t have a mic" excuse was valid 10-15 years ago when headsets were relatively costly, but you can buy a perfectly functional set these days for less than the cost of a 1 month subscription to your game of choice. Sure, there could be hardware challenges, setup hassles, etc but.. well.. welcome to being a PC gamer.
"Conclusion"
All of the above is just my opinion, for what its worth. There will be many who disagree, and maybe some who agree. But in the end, lets at least acknowledge that the written word is better for recording information than it is for active, real-time communication. Voice communication in a group setting makes for a much more effective team. When you get to where you can identify the voice of a guild mate you have never met before, then you understand what it means to be a social animal (e.g. – human) - we are meant to talk to one another.
Don't really care either way as long as there is a toggle option. I'll likely never turn on voice chat for random groups as in-game voice chat has been incredibly odd/annoying in every game I've played that had it. Always end up turning it off. Not even going to bother making a list; we're all pretty well-versed in the pros and cons of voice chat and in-game voice chat. If I become buds with non-guildies, we can easily figure out out-of-game VC. For guild groups / buddies, always happy to use out-of-game voice chat.
Quote: Let’s face it, some people are intimidated by some voices, others are self-conscious that their voice may not be as deep (for men), and poor women - the moment us gaming nerds hear a female voice we lose all sense of composure. The "I don’t have a mic" excuse was valid 10-15 years ago when headsets were relatively costly, but you can buy a perfectly functional set these days for less than the cost of a 1 month subscription to your game of choice. Sure, there could be hardware challenges, setup hassles, etc but.. well.. welcome to being a PC gamer. - end quote
LOL I am by no means intimidated, want my opinion you'll get it. There WAS a time when voice chat was all new and shiny, where as a female if you dared to speak in voice chat, you were harassed..because certain "boyz" refused to believe that females game.
I find a lot of times that voice chat is obnoxious. Annoying, unimmersive, and distracting. If its only for the purpose of listening to voiced instructions from the raid leader or guild leader, I will be happy with that. Not having to put up with weirdness..is my thing. :P And I am perfectly capable of typing quick enough to alert others in my group as to what I am up to.
Cana
CanadinaXegony said:I find a lot of times that voice chat is obnoxious. Annoying, unimmersive, and distracting.
And I am perfectly capable of typing quick enough to alert others in my group as to what I am up to.
That assuming everyone else in your group is staring at a chat screen.
I prefer voice that allows me not to stare at an interface.
Not too mention immersion. I guess we all have our own version of immersion. Strange voices break my immersion far less than stopping what I am doing to type a bunch of text lines or having to read a bunch of text. For me, that’s the immersion killer.
Beefcake said:CanadinaXegony said:I find a lot of times that voice chat is obnoxious. Annoying, unimmersive, and distracting.
And I am perfectly capable of typing quick enough to alert others in my group as to what I am up to.
That assuming everyone else in your group is staring at a chat screen.
I prefer voice that allows me not to stare at an interface.
Not too mention immersion. I guess we all have our own version of immersion. Strange voices break my immersion far less than stopping what I am doing to type a bunch of text lines or having to read a bunch of text. For me, that’s the immersion killer.
To each their own Beef. :) I used to type 60 wpm..not that quick these days, but can still type as fast as I think. :) As long as choice and a toggle are allowed, I'll be happy with that. Currently have a headset where the mic doesn't work, haven't done anything about replacing it...yet. May wait til release. We'll see, not high on my "to-do" list. :)
Ah ha! I have found my way here. Hmmm....so its not just me that ponders about this...
I'd rather go all text personally just because wearing a headset gets uncomfortable after a while, and for other reasons. I would rather use my phone and discord over a headset but I'll do whatever the guild needs in the end.
Anyway, glad to know this is in discussion.
Thanks All,
Chryos
Zaketh said:I will avoid groups and guilds that over use voice chat. I prefer to type in my responses in all but raid encounters, and in that case let the leaders do the bulk of the talking. Luckily I play with several people who think the same way.
They may have group chat with mute features, not all of it has to be heard. (which i think is too much extra work on the devs atm)
I honestly think they need to avoid voice chat in the game and allow us less resources to use TS, Discord, Vent etc... instead.
disposalist said:
Voice chat sucks, it destroys roleplaing and ruins immersion and none of us will play a game without it. /shrug
Krixus said:disposalist said:
Voice chat sucks, it destroys roleplaing and ruins immersion and none of us will play a game without it. /shrug
Not everyone role plays, so that is a unfair assessment. Not saying your completely incorrect in a Role playing enviroment. Standard rule set servers may want to use discord, ts, or vent as there primary voice program and use in game txt chat for the rest. I dont believe we need the devs to develop such a resource hog system like voice chat in game. Let the players do 3 party apps to control voice. Plus you can organize it better on your own using TS, discord. Seperating channels for crowd control, off tanking, or simple groups, channels different. All of which are managed better.
Here's the thing with me for voice:
- I like to use it with people I know and enjoy being in chat with
- I don't like using it with people I don't know
- I can't be in voice chat all the time
And then there's one other thing... and I don't know how to quantify this in any meaningful way. I sort of "miss" some of the conversations I had in down time - even though I know that competes with down time that I was sitting there thinking "can we get on with this already?"
If everyone is in voice - down time is less necessary. But while I often enjoy voice chat every bit as much as some of those "down time chats" - they are somehow different (and I really have no idea why... they just are to me personally).
But in a world where voice is so common... I don't know how you strike a balance between having a pace of game conducive to down time that doesn't feel slow if you are talking to each other (voice)... and doesn't feel fast for people who just want 5 seconds to type something to someone.