Truly difficult progression that required commitment over time and from a lot of people, all working together. Kunark epics and Velious progression are always the benchmark to me. Huge long slogs that very few people experienced all of, even now on progression servers, P1999, etc.
Kilsin said:What is the one thing you miss the most from older games that you wish newer games brought back? #PRF #communitymatters
I miss there always being a reason to get a group, get a spot, and play. I really don't like that the genre has evolved to the point where raiding is a closed economy with little need to do anything but raiding once one reaches raider tiers of play. EQ's AA system made it so that there was always a reason to go get some exp and hang out with friends. It got a little crazy in future expansions, sure, but it definitely solved the problem of running out of things to do.
I miss the feeling that we are creating and adding to the story. I loved FV.. where you played only one character (usually) so your name and reputation mattered, and you could find your friends. I loved being part of a good guild and the fun you had with role players acting in role. Even if it meant your main tank would not kill a mob because he would not kill ravens :)
Unique classes with unique, flavorful and utility abilities.
I always really liked the invisibility system from Everquest, as well as the charm spell lines. It was risky, but could be very rewarding. Teleportation was a big part of the game too, and so was movement speed.
What I really liked about items in Everquest was, that they weren't all upgrades, some were just side-grades, and others had useful clicky-abilities. I miss those things too.
In fact, I'm guessing the main part why I dislike the modern mmo's is because gear is just higher numbers, classes pretty much do the same thing (tanks are just tanks, dps are just dps, and healers are just healers) and while I'm not against soloing - in fact when you don't have a lot of time, or can't find a group, or the server is sleeping, etc., soloing can be a good alternative to grouping - just as long as grouping is more rewarding and safer. I'm not for soloing just being slow and tedious, but rather for grouping being faster and more sociable.
One thing I REALLY miss from City of Heroes (and partly from Everquest) was the various ways a class could be played. While a healer that can heal is fine, I would also like to see damage reduction, damage avoidance, crowd control, etc. for a varied gameplay. We kinda saw it in Everquest with shamans being able to slow enemies and regenerate players, whereas clerics were more focused on strong and mana-effective heals. Sadly, it took a while for the druids to get up to par as a useful healing class (I had to solo my druid from 50 to 60 because all the groups wanted clerics and shamans), but that was then.
Other things I would love to see, but isn't as central to me, is more interesting and useful crafting. The whole idea that crafting loses its point as people find more powerful items and hand them on to their alts and friends, the more frustrating it feels to finish that grind to reach lvl 200 in that specific crafting skill just so you can craft that single earring you want. I also miss more fun crafting. Pressing a button and watching a bar go up is not really that interesting.
Chalkstix said:Unique classes with unique, flavorful and utility abilities.
I always really liked the invisibility system from Everquest, as well as the charm spell lines. It was risky, but could be very rewarding. Teleportation was a big part of the game too, and so was movement speed.
What I really liked about items in Everquest was, that they weren't all upgrades, some were just side-grades, and others had useful clicky-abilities. I miss those things too.
In fact, I'm guessing the main part why I dislike the modern mmo's is because gear is just higher numbers, classes pretty much do the same thing (tanks are just tanks, dps are just dps, and healers are just healers) and while I'm not against soloing - in fact when you don't have a lot of time, or can't find a group, or the server is sleeping, etc., soloing can be a good alternative to grouping - just as long as grouping is more rewarding and safer. I'm not for soloing just being slow and tedious, but rather for grouping being faster and more sociable.
One thing I REALLY miss from City of Heroes (and partly from Everquest) was the various ways a class could be played. While a healer that can heal is fine, I would also like to see damage reduction, damage avoidance, crowd control, etc. for a varied gameplay. We kinda saw it in Everquest with shamans being able to slow enemies and regenerate players, whereas clerics were more focused on strong and mana-effective heals. Sadly, it took a while for the druids to get up to par as a useful healing class (I had to solo my druid from 50 to 60 because all the groups wanted clerics and shamans), but that was then.
Other things I would love to see, but isn't as central to me, is more interesting and useful crafting. The whole idea that crafting loses its point as people find more powerful items and hand them on to their alts and friends, the more frustrating it feels to finish that grind to reach lvl 200 in that specific crafting skill just so you can craft that single earring you want. I also miss more fun crafting. Pressing a button and watching a bar go up is not really that interesting.
I gotta say, I really liked the original invis (including Rogue sneak/hide) system too. You were really invisible, not a ghost.
Jamzez2015 said:I miss mapping the world yourself, not pressing M on the keyboard and having the whole zone laid out for you, and learning a safe way through tough mob's or even the terrain.
Boy do I have good news for you......hehehehe They've already said that won't happen in Pantheon.
I miss having encounter in the open world be challenging. If solo, having to really pick one's battles and then in a group, having to have some means of encounter control, either through good pulling or crowd control and even then, chosing one's battles carefully.
I miss worlds that were meant to be explored and that even areas that one finished lower level content in, later having content that's appropriate and desirable at later levels. I hate how modern MMOs have whole regions/zones that are just there to pass through while grinding levels 4-6 or some such; never to be seen again. It is a waste. Let me kill those small rats or level 5 skeletons for several levels while avoiding those corrupted druids that hate you killing their animal friends and happen to be level 25 only to come back at 25 to find that those druids are the source of some problem in the area and I need to rid the area of corrupted druids who also happen to drop some nice level 25 items.
Kilsin said:) I miss the "time" you had to get to know each other. The down time worked into the game allowed you to get to know your groupmates and guildies really well, and I miss that.What is the one thing you miss the most from older games that you wish newer games brought back? #PRF #communitymatters
This could be a journal for many of us, but the single thing I miss the most is the social aspect. The ability to log into the game, and vetrillo and instantly have a community of friends. To log in and not feeling like doing anything else than crafting for a night but still talking to all your guildies all night. Finishing a big raid and sitting around drinking beer for 2 hours afterwards just hanging out. Being with a group of like minded adults to the point that when you are travelling almost anywhere in the country that you plan a meet-up with someone in your guild so you get to actaully see the voice. Las Vegas, L.A, Houston, Memphis, Philadelphia the list goes on. I miss that.
The wonder of an unknown landscape to explore. The fear of being slain somewhere far from safety. The riddle of a quest with limited clues. The joy of conquering a difficult challenge.
These are a few of my favorite things...wherever they exist, this bard feels at home.
Area Effect (AE) spells and effects with NO target caps!
(EQ: PRENERF Al'Kabor wizard nukes, Enchanter Color Flux Line, Earthquake/Tremor, Supernova, Freezing Winds, etc)
(Vanguard: Sorcerer's prenerf fireball, sorcerer's prenerf Icequake, Psion prenerf Dementia, Druid Healing rain, Druid AE roots, Druid AE Calamities)
Nukes that have recoil (damage the caster)!
I played a lot of Psion and Sorc. I LOVED LOVED LOVED the prenerf version of Thought Pulse.
Even better was the fabled CHAOS VOLLEY! OMG! Before this spell was nerfed into oblivion it was like playing with a nuclear bomb! The way it ramped up in damage and recoil at the same time was the ultimate thrill. Will this next Chaos Volley Crit and kill me? Let's find out!! The only thing better than the unpredictable devistating damage of this spell were the sounds it made when cast. The eerie cracking, popping, and breaking of the atmosphere around each volley was enough to keep me on my toes while anticipating the louder and louder cracks each ramp-up.
One of the things I miss the most is living in a game world with far away, exotic places that I heard about for what seemed like YEARS before I was able to travel to them, let alone survive there. The buildup from hearing exciting tidbits about such places, for a very long time before actually getting there, made the simple fact of arriving so much more of an accomplishment. That feeling of success made it much more rewarding to take my time exploring every nook and cranny of the zone, without feeling like I needed to be doing quests or grinding xp/loot every hour in the game.
I'd say the combination of limited long-distance travel and challenging content with diminishing XP returns for grinding 'easy' stuff had a lot to do with that experience.
One of the things I miss and do not miss was Epic encounters in lower level areas, in FFXI I can think of 2 off hand.
The main one would be the boat ride from a mid level 20 area to 30 area which took about 30-45 min, on the boat ride depending on the time of day and moon cycle either Pirates could board the boat ( Skeleton Pirates ) which were about level 45 if i remeber correctly, so at night it was best for all lower level players to stay below deck for this reason. And the other encounter was a level 80 Kraken which if some noob was on deck could train it down below and wipe the whole boat. Making for some awesome memories of a boat full of corpses pulling into port all needed a rez to avoid significant XP loss or deleveling. If the rez took too long the corpses had to wait for the return trip, hehe. Normally once there were max level characters people would do advanced ocean fishing on the boat, and durring these events help take care of the threats. While allowing lower level characters experience the event in awe.
The second random event was Massive world spawn rare mobs that would appear every so often in relatively harmless zones. Most noteably I remember one such a senario where a level 60 or so Ram appeared in a level 30 area, mean while i was max level 70 at the time, taking a stroll between zones and stopped in the field ( because it was safe ) to fix dinner. To come back to my dead corpse, wondering how the heck I died knowing nothing there could kill me. The rare spawn was awesome to take down, but adds an element of whoa to players at the relative level in that zone, allowing players of much greater power fight along side of them.
So mixed level mob encounters, I miss the most. When at a lower level to see what to work towards, and to show off to lower players at the same time, when powerful enough.
Another element that is not in an older game that I found entertaining was Exploration Puzzles in Rift.
http://www.kfguides.com/rift/puzzlesguide.php
This allowed people to explore and solve puzzles instead of fighting, which engaged the adventurer when looking for something different to do in game.
I feel this type of element gives a little more depth to the normal game play of quest and kill.
dazusu said:Notorious/Rare Named Monsters that only appear once every 3-5 days and need 12+ people to kill strategically in the open world.
This element was great, but only suffered one pitfall. Whoever killed the spawn owned the timer. If the mob had a 72hr spawn it would spawn 72hrs on the dot from when it was killed, so only the person or team who killed it knew when it was going to spawn. Everyone else would have to camp it for the whole 72hrs for a chance to know when it would spawn. The team who killed it knew when it would spawn and since they knew when it was up, if they did not see it they knew they were looking in the wrong spot so they could look else where.
The timers also reset on server resets, so a savy player would kill all rare spawn on a fresh server restart in a lucrative area and controll all the spawns until they get bored or next restart. Allowing them to dominate the drops.
This is easily fixed if the durration of the spawn varries by a random # of minutes added to the spawn timer after kill or something of the sort.
modesty said:This is easily fixed if the durration of the spawn varries by a random # of minutes added to the spawn timer after kill or something of the sort.
This is how FFXI did it, so there was no problem to begin with.
There were certain Wyrms that spawned every 3-5 days after last kill. Every 30 minutes on the dot during that 2 day period the Wyrm (whether it be Tiamat, Jormungand, etc) could spawn; which means there were 96 possible spawn times over a 2 day period.
Other notorious monsters had a 21-24 hour spawn period, again with 30 minute windows, giving 7 opportunities to spawn during a 3 hour period.
Given the staggered spawns, the time the monster appeared would gradually move around the clock giving people that play at different times of the day an opportunity to claim the next spawn.
Of course - if you were completely out of the loop and not involved in the scene of camping these monsters - you would have no clue when they were around, and you'd need to stumble upon other people camping them - collect the time of death, then try at the next opportunity with your team.
It was all part of the process - so I don't see any of it as a problem. It certainly required a lot of effort to participate in... not sure I have the time to do it these days - but I would love to see a similar system in pantheon - but again, this shouldn't be the main or only way to obtain the best end-game items (as it was for a long time in FFXI) - there should be other avenues that are more predictable but require equal effort. Just my 2c.
dazusu said:This is how FFXI did it, so there was no problem to begin with.
There were certain Wyrms that spawned every 3-5 days after last kill. Every 30 minutes on the dot during that 2 day period the Wyrm (whether it be Tiamat, Jormungand, etc) could spawn; which means there were 96 possible spawn times over a 2 day period.
Thanks, yes this would solve the problem, I stopped playing FFXI after level cap hit 80, they must have changed this around then.
That said, I really do miss the class specific level cap quests in FFXI, notoriously the level 70 cap quest facing Maat in Jeuno who would force you to solo him with class specific challenges.
Palandins ( Tank ) had to mitigate N amount of HP
White Mage ( Priest ) had to heal N amount of HP
Black Mage ( Wizard ) had to DPS and CC
etc...
modesty said:they must have changed this around then.
The HNMs always worked this way in FFXI (the ones like Fafnir, Nidhogg, Behemoth, King Behemoth, Aspidochelone, Roc, Simurgh, etc were all 21-24 hour spawns). Regular NMs (Notorious Monsters) were usually statically timed, or lottery popped from other monsters of the same type in the same area :-), like Leaping Lizzy (90 minute lottery pop).
The Maat fights were also awesome; there was a lot of great content in that game. I hope to recapture some of that spirit in Pantheon!
Before I forget although I am getting bad at making too many posts in here...
What I will call, Forced Group Down Time. I think is very useful in creating dialogue and group behavior of getting to know other players.
Forced group down time, I am referring to things such as group travel like on a boat or air ship, these things take a set amount of time players can talk and such as on a boat may be able to fish and utilize their time between areas.
Along with the forced group down time, I feel that level caps also aid in this behavior of bottlenecking groups of players together in a stair step affect forcing them together getting to know players of the same level and achieve other goals rather than the regular dungeon or mob hunt.
I think any game function that forces players together in a space or event, they are more likely to converse and just play around making for some great memories.
So maybe instead of warps, perhaps other methods of travel that allow groups to enjoy the ride together and talk about strats on the way to their destination without having to worry about anything could provide more community building moments.
Not knowing the whole story of Pantheon yet the only elements that may fit this bill are a boat, carriage ride, or maybe a large moving bridge or platform.
