So we're all here from another MMO. Most from EQ or Vanguard hoping to see something finally great come from a developer and team that has had years of seeing others do it. Do it either just about right, or just a little off or just missing that one or two things.
What are the one or two things you'll want to see? i.e. Variety of loot from all mobs, not always just a rat tail from a rat, not only just a fire beetle claw from a fire bettle etc. You'll want to feel tired and worn out after a level 4 fight with a mischevious pixie. Ok, maybe thats just me.
What are the things that you've see in other MMO's that were there but just not quite right? Quest journals were way to vauge. Floating ?'s over NPC's heads. An actual line leading you to your next quest objective. I know Protf won't have those but what were some good ides, just implemented poorly?
What are something you've grown used to having in recent MMO's that you think are a must for Pantheon? Auction House. Broker? Player instnaced housing? Mailboxes?
After playing P99 for the past couple of days, I realized what I want in an MMO is a grind. Oh, it's horrible in P99 right now, but I love that. Weed out the weak and those that complain about everything all the time, and a good way to do that is to quickly show them, this probably isnt' the game for you. I also love that I can only hold 6 items and after I've filled those 6 spots I have to run to the vendor and sell. It's as frustrating as heck, but it makes the moment where I've run back 16 times and am now able to afford a backpack so much more meaningful. However, while playing in my trip back, I've also noticed I want a broker, I will want (if I ever make friends) a mailbox. And oddly enough, EQ Classic did this better than almost any other MMO since. They made it feel like my avatar was being hit, when he's hit, theres the sound, the actual animation of my character stumbling that I don't see in todays game.
There are many different things we all want. Enough so that there is probably not a single one of us that isn't unhappy about how some design decisions seem to be going. Totally inevitable. of course.
I can't and won't pick two things that I want more than others in terms of design. But I will pick two things that shouldn't come as a surprise I have said these were critical often enough, as have many others.
1. A successful game. The purest of perfect old school games that fails because it cannot get enough subscribers is useless to us all.
2. A game that is *better* by a significant degree than current MMOs like EQ2, WoW, SWTOR, Rift and EQ. Because if it isn't better it is useless to us all.
As long as it has enough slow progress, distinct classes, non-trivial crafting, focus on socialization etc. to be noticably better than what we have now to choose from (and is more modern than EQ which as even its greatest fans will admit isn't the best game out there in terms of interface and graphics) I don't really care how much it has to compromise its ideals in order to meet objective one - success.
I agree with dorotea. We all have to realize that Pantheon isn't going to be the "perfect" game for us as individuals. Stuff's going to be done differently than how we would have done it. We all spend all our time on these forums talking about the "how we would do it" part. At the end of the day though doesn't matter. What matters is that it's successful, and better than what we remember.
I'll only add that when I think of success, I don't think of just in the first year. I want to see Pantheon still going strong 10 years from now.
Not that any of this will actually be how Pantheon turns out, but if I was asked what things i'd bring from other MMOs into my "Perfect" MMO then....
DAoC - Combat system, How Crafted Gear was implemented (not the crafting system itself)
EQ1 - Class interdependence, Group oriented content, Dungeon/World design
LOTRO - Nameable semi-crafted epic weapons, Lore of this caliber
BDO - Art/Graphics (in relation to photo realism and general beauty and level of detail)
EQ2 - Race selection (in number and diversity)
SWTOR - Quest Story Cinematic Cutscenes and Story Telling
WAR Online - RVR and PvP Battle Grounds
That said, I am completely good with how Pantheon seems to be shaping up. My only real worry is how much content will be actually devoted to group / solo / raid play. I know what they have said they plan to do, but I REALLY hope they don't give in to the "raiders" and make this game about end game raiding only. Thats not the game I want. If there was no raiding at all i'd still be happy. I want to have a small D&D Pen and Paper group type experience. Almost exclusively.
Kittik said:What are something you've grown used to having in recent MMO's that you think are a must for Pantheon? Auction House. Broker? Player instnaced housing? Mailboxes?
After playing P99 for the past couple of days, I realized what I want in an MMO is a grind. Oh, it's horrible in P99 right now, but I love that. Weed out the weak and those that complain about everything all the time, and a good way to do that is to quickly show them, this probably isnt' the game for you. I also love that I can only hold 6 items and after I've filled those 6 spots I have to run to the vendor and sell. It's as frustrating as heck, but it makes the moment where I've run back 16 times and am now able to afford a backpack so much more meaningful. However, while playing in my trip back, I've also noticed I want a broker, I will want (if I ever make friends) a mailbox. And oddly enough, EQ Classic did this better than almost any other MMO since. They made it feel like my avatar was being hit, when he's hit, theres the sound, the actual animation of my character stumbling that I don't see in todays game.
Haha, actually those are things I could do without. I'd prefer to have no mailboxes, AH/Brokers, and instanced housing I could take or leave but it's never something I much care to participate in. Mailboxes made/make RMT(real money transfer) incredibly easy and I'm of the opinion that you should have to be near someone to actually trade something to them instead of mailing people items. AH/Brokers just ruin the economy (in my opinion, I know it's a hot topic for some).
One thing that I do want to see? Meaningful items, meaning a lack of item levels and a return to drops of all levels having value like EQ which allows players of any level to participate. No constant gear replacement or guarantee that higher level named mobs will drop better items (on average they will though). A general sense of wonder and excitement when you do actually find upgrades and an uncertainty to when you might upgrade any given slot next. When a player don't know for certain that their next upgrade is in a handful of levels and doesn't even know if the higher level drops will be better they are MUCH more inclined to take part in the trade economy.
For the most part, I'd say Pantheon looks very well aligned with my personal interests...so far.
Cinematic cut-scenes are expensive..I looked it up..$50,000 for a minute and a half cut-scene. These were overdone in SWTOR...I betaed that game, and put in my feedback on the numerous cut-scenes, that made you the audience in the back row, instead of allowing you to participate. Voice overs are also expensive. VR doesn't have the large budget like some of these companies like EA, Trion, Activision and most especially Blizzard, therefore the monies need to be directed at the main game and get it out the door in a complete state. And with our help in testing, a relatively bug free and exploit free game.
Cana
@Iksar I guess I can see your concern over Mailboxes and AH's. I've never abused or used them an a manner other than what I genuinely thought they were to be used for. It wasn't until you mentioned it that yes you are correct. I can see how usnig mailboxes for malicious reasons would be a bad thing and the over inflation of currency to a game economey could result from poorly designed AH's. But I sitll love the broker in EQ2. I think I spent more time just looking for a little upgrade to armor than I did actually playing the game some weeks. I've never been interested in making money hand over fist so I've never conserned byself with "finding the magic formulea" to make profits from brokers.
CanadinaXegony said:Cinematic cut-scenes are expensive..I looked it up..$50,000 for a minute and a half cut-scene. These were overdone in SWTOR...I betaed that game, and put in my feedback on the numerous cut-scenes, that made you the audience in the back row, instead of allowing you to participate. Voice overs are also expensive. VR doesn't have the large budget like some of these companies like EA, Trion, Activision and most especially Blizzard, therefore the monies need to be directed at the main game and get it out the door in a complete state. And with our help in testing, a relatively bug free and exploit free game.
Cana
Thats why I said that I wasn't wanting those features in Pantheon, but in a fictional "perfect" MMO. Pantheon is not my idea of a "Perfect" MMO. It is the next best thing on the horizen at this time.
@Iksar
"Haha, actually those are things I could do without. I'd prefer to have no mailboxes, AH/Brokers, and instanced housing I could take or leave but it's never something I much care to participate in. Mailboxes made/make RMT(real money transfer) incredibly easy and I'm of the opinion that you should have to be near someone to actually trade something to them instead of mailing people items. AH/Brokers just ruin the economy (in my opinion, I know it's a hot topic for some)."
Saw this in Rift, they would park their little level one spammer characters near the mailboxes in each city, then you would get spammed with power levelling, rmt purchases if you happened to pass by. I clued in on this and started reporting them to the GMs. I would be good with mailboxes attached to your house, ala EQII we had them on the inside of our instanced homes could participate in the AH from our instanced homes as well. Had all my crafting stations set up inside as well. Not sure VR will make instanced housing, we'll have to see what they decide.
Cana
I love housing and building crazy homes (recently did an 'old Kelethin' themed house in EQ2, turned the Mistmoore estate into a forest complete with druid rings, a tree house, and a 'planar' space with an altar to Tunare), so I think I'd go crazy if that ended up in Pantheon. What I have the most trouble with is how HUGE those spaces are. The cheapest inn room (free to get, 5sp upkeep a week) has a 12 foot ceiling. I understand trying to get camera angles to work in there but it's so much wasted space to design around! I liked LotRO's houses...sorta...okay, the elven houses were terrible. The Breeland ones are good. I really wish they'd have better customizability because right now you get a set number of 'hooks' to stick things and you're reduced to rearranging furniture.
Anyway, it's okay if that doesn't end up in game because I 'adopt' empty houses in home towns as my own, if they're there. So I suppose I hope we get little empty houses in towns!
What I'd really love is for someone to bring back those old message boards from EQ1, the ones you'd find in various pubs that you can click on and read posts from other players who'd been to that location or were trying to sell or buy things. Those were awesome.
CanadinaXegony said:Cinematic cut-scenes are expensive..I looked it up..$50,000 for a minute and a half cut-scene. These were overdone in SWTOR...I betaed that game, and put in my feedback on the numerous cut-scenes, that made you the audience in the back row, instead of allowing you to participate. Voice overs are also expensive. VR doesn't have the large budget like some of these companies like EA, Trion, Activision and most especially Blizzard, therefore the monies need to be directed at the main game and get it out the door in a complete state. And with our help in testing, a relatively bug free and exploit free game.
Cana
Seconding this - I've never cared for voice overs. I know that many people like them, when they're done right, but as someone that usually just rushes through the text and dialogue (unless I'm feeling randy) to get to the meat of the quest, it's something I'd prefer they not put a lot of effort and resources into. But that's just me.
I would like to see a game design where most classes were needed and relevant to avoid the "flavor of the month" treadmill where a class would shine for a few months and then be nerfed into irrelevance for much longer. I would like to see itemization that makes sense, unlike EQ2, where every expansion brought some new artificial stat that suddenly had to be increased, making all of the old gear you worked to accumulate useless.
I would like to see a robust system to promote group and community cohesion so more time is spent having fun and less time is spent looking for groups, and finally I would like to see many of the ideas people have expresed to make the game non-trivial, but in a way that makes it accessable to new players so we can grow the player base, which will fuel continued expansions and a strong cadre of programming talent. I've seen so many games just wither on the vine because the revenues drop to the point where it becomes difficult to put out content that actually makes me want to log in. I have high hopes for this game and a lot of faith in the development team.
I want something new... with a solid ruleset that is fun to play from 1 to 50. I got on EQ to have fun. Yes, it was challenging and took a long time to achieve things. But above all, my favorite time was spent with good people helping each other with their goals. I don't even remember leveling in today's generation of toxic MMO's.
Shea said:What is going to make Pantheon right ?
Who says anything is wrong ?
Spot on! :)
What is "right" in one persons mind will differentiate widely from what another person thinks "right" is for them, all we can do is make our own game, fill it with as many things as we can that we think will benefit the game and work well with other systems, mehcanics and features and make tweaks along the way to get the balance and feel right but we are not trying to be EQ, WoW, VG, UO, FF or any other game, we are trying to be Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen and not everyone will like everything we do but we ar enot here to please everyone.
To get an idea of what we are making the game to be, check out our Tenets, Features and Pantheon Difference at the bottom left-hand side of the website under the "About Pantheon" heading, that is what will make Pantheon right for us :)
Shea said:What is going to make Pantheon right ?
Who says anything is wrong?
Quite a few people actually... including VR themselves. The point of OP is what does it take for Pantheon to be the game we're looking for. Kilsin is right in that it's rather subjective and plenty of discussion around the things that will make Pantheon solve the issues of MMOs today. I get that you're being all tongue-in-cheek, but nothing wrong with what the OP is getting at. ;)
Kittik said:So we're all here from another MMO. Most from EQ or Vanguard hoping to see something finally great come from a developer and team that has had years of seeing others do it. Do it either just about right, or just a little off or just missing that one or two things.
What are the one or two things you'll want to see? i.e. Variety of loot from all mobs, not always just a rat tail from a rat, not only just a fire beetle claw from a fire bettle etc. You'll want to feel tired and worn out after a level 4 fight with a mischevious pixie. Ok, maybe thats just me.
What are the things that you've see in other MMO's that were there but just not quite right? Quest journals were way to vauge. Floating ?'s over NPC's heads. An actual line leading you to your next quest objective. I know Protf won't have those but what were some good ides, just implemented poorly?
What are something you've grown used to having in recent MMO's that you think are a must for Pantheon? Auction House. Broker? Player instnaced housing? Mailboxes?
After playing P99 for the past couple of days, I realized what I want in an MMO is a grind. Oh, it's horrible in P99 right now, but I love that. Weed out the weak and those that complain about everything all the time, and a good way to do that is to quickly show them, this probably isnt' the game for you. I also love that I can only hold 6 items and after I've filled those 6 spots I have to run to the vendor and sell. It's as frustrating as heck, but it makes the moment where I've run back 16 times and am now able to afford a backpack so much more meaningful. However, while playing in my trip back, I've also noticed I want a broker, I will want (if I ever make friends) a mailbox. And oddly enough, EQ Classic did this better than almost any other MMO since. They made it feel like my avatar was being hit, when he's hit, theres the sound, the actual animation of my character stumbling that I don't see in todays game.
I dont mean to sound rude, but read the forums. These exact ideas have been discussed across dozens if not hundreds of threads.
Kittik said:Vandraad said:I dont mean to sound rude, but read the forums. These exact ideas have been discussed across dozens if not hundreds of threads.
Your skill at Killing Forum Topics and the Joy of Others has increased! (74)
Kitt is in the starting City! We need more Kitt's coming in and starting in starting cities!~
I saw this topic yesterday but figured I would think about it. What I want from Pantheon, and what I have always wanted (people have spoken about this at length). The community will make Pantheon "right".
A community where you help others not expecting anything in return. A community where people respect and support one another. A community that empowers from the level 1 to the level 50 players.
A community where players openly share their expertise and knowledge. A community that is not suffocating or judgemental. A community where people work collectively without ego.
A community where guilds make their own open events. A community that we make.
I apologise if this is not what the topic was aiming at. All of the above will help Pantheon not only be "right" but be a family.
I should not drink and type though it is good practice for my Bard one day 8))
Jazznblues said:I saw this topic yesterday but figured I would think about it. What I want from Pantheon, and what I have always wanted (people have spoken about this at length). The community will make Pantheon "right".
A community where you help others not expecting anything in return. A community where people respect and support one another. A community that empowers from the level 1 to the level 50 players.
A community where players openly share their expertise and knowledge. A community that is not suffocating or judgemental. A community where people work collectively without ego.
A community where guilds make their own open events. A community that we make.
I apologise if this is not what the topic was aiming at. All of the above will help Pantheon not only be "right" but be a family.
I should not drink and type though it is good practice for my Bard one day 8))
Plus one * The issue is many think if pantheon is not WOW or AC or EQ or Vanguard something is wrong .. PROTF is its own game they already stated their core standards .I am personally good with it .. I know without a shadow of a doubt i personally will enjoy it . I have played most games that Brad has been a visionary of or helped, with that i enjoy His vision from classes to races to the world itself .
His vision is what keeps me here not what happens or what others think the game should be ..
Many of the topics lately are (IMHO) neg .. Whats its going to take to make pantheon right ???? Perhaps there was some tongue and cheek there in my responce . but seriously ? How many of you have tested or even entered the game to even say whats wrong or what needs improving ??? Maybe in all seriousneess it might not be the game for certain people . ( nothing wrong with that ) . but most of these questions or ideas have been answered or talked about for years .
I myself am more interested in what the other classes/races other skills ie crafting are about before i decide it needs changing or should be something else ..
sorn said:I love housing and building crazy homes (recently did an 'old Kelethin' themed house in EQ2, turned the Mistmoore estate into a forest complete with druid rings, a tree house, and a 'planar' space with an altar to Tunare), so I think I'd go crazy if that ended up in Pantheon. What I have the most trouble with is how HUGE those spaces are. The cheapest inn room (free to get, 5sp upkeep a week) has a 12 foot ceiling. I understand trying to get camera angles to work in there but it's so much wasted space to design around! I liked LotRO's houses...sorta...okay, the elven houses were terrible. The Breeland ones are good. I really wish they'd have better customizability because right now you get a set number of 'hooks' to stick things and you're reduced to rearranging furniture.
Anyway, it's okay if that doesn't end up in game because I 'adopt' empty houses in home towns as my own, if they're there. So I suppose I hope we get little empty houses in towns!
What I'd really love is for someone to bring back those old message boards from EQ1, the ones you'd find in various pubs that you can click on and read posts from other players who'd been to that location or were trying to sell or buy things. Those were awesome.
I would absolutely love goals like what you have described, would keep me busy and enthralled. :)
Shea said:Jazznblues said:I saw this topic yesterday but figured I would think about it. What I want from Pantheon, and what I have always wanted (people have spoken about this at length). The community will make Pantheon "right".
A community where you help others not expecting anything in return. A community where people respect and support one another. A community that empowers from the level 1 to the level 50 players.
A community where players openly share their expertise and knowledge. A community that is not suffocating or judgemental. A community where people work collectively without ego.
A community where guilds make their own open events. A community that we make.
I apologise if this is not what the topic was aiming at. All of the above will help Pantheon not only be "right" but be a family.
I should not drink and type though it is good practice for my Bard one day 8))
Plus one * The issue is many think if pantheon is not WOW or AC or EQ or Vanguard something is wrong .. PROTF is its own game they already stated their core standards .I am personally good with it .. I know without a shadow of a doubt i personally will enjoy it . I have played most games that Brad has been a visionary of or helped, with that i enjoy His vision from classes to races to the world itself .
His vision is what keeps me here not what happens or what others think the game should be ..
Many of the topics lately are (IMHO) neg .. Whats its going to take to make pantheon right ???? Perhaps there was some tongue and cheek there in my responce . but seriously ? How many of you have tested or even entered the game to even say whats wrong or what needs improving ??? Maybe in all seriousneess it might not be the game for certain people . ( nothing wrong with that ) . but most of these questions or ideas have been answered or talked about for years .
I myself am more interested in what the other classes/races other skills ie crafting are about before i decide it needs changing or should be something else ..
Hi Shea, I think that some folks that aren't used to viewing a game in its early stages, automatically assume that what they are currently seeing is going to be there on release. Hope they keep in mind that in the pre-alpha and later testing stages until beta, that nothing is written in stone, some of what we're seeing graphically are place holders, and all subject to change once feedback from the testers starts coming in. Pantheon has come along nicely from back in the days of the first pics and streams. It can only get even better from here, and the Devs are hinting at some surprising features..sometime down the line. I would just hang onto my hat and enjoy the ride, and in the end, be proud of the fact that we are all going to be part of ensuring this great game gets out the door...and exist for many years to come. :)
Cana