These two games seem to be more direct competitors than anything else I know of that is currently in development, so I'm a bit concerned over release timings. Many people will prefer one or the other, but potentially many more will have interest in both.
WoW Classic is likely at least 1.5-2 years away. Pantheon? No idea. Does it seem at all likely that they may release near each other?
Ideally, I'd like to see Pantheon beat Classic WoW to market by at least 6 months. That should be long enough for the WoW hype train to not already be in full gear, and long enough for people to get heavily invested in their Pantheon characters.
My worst nightmare would be both of them releasing within the same month.
I don't think these two games will directly compete as much as the internet thinks. Vanilla WoW and Pantheon will (Assuming Pantheon delivers on their game design promises) be very different games, with an important distinction between the two: Pantheon will actively facilitate old school local community as it is apart of core game design and will be updated to reflect as such(again; assuming VR delivers on their design), where as Vanilla WoW won't because it's a throwback to an older version of a game that has gone in a vastly different MMO design direction.
Furthermore, pantheon is modeling it's gameplay after Everquest; which is in a lot of ways very different to Vanilla WoW. No private instances. The world will* (again assuming Pantheon delivers) will not have quest hubs, be generally too difficult to traverse alone, and if staying true to the EQ model, will have an even more heavy emphasis on class identity. Meaning if your class buffs, heals or CCs it will have a noticeable decrease in damage and/or survivability versus classes that do provide buffs. With that said; buffs in a game like Pantheon *should* make a noticeable improvement to your character and be actively sought after.
TL;DR Vanilla WoW and this game *should* be two different games. The major difference? One is being actively developed, the other is stuck in time.
If people really just wanted to adventure through a world they already know everything about, there would be alot more of us going back to play EQ.
I don't see how re-releasing a 10 year old game as something new is really worth it.
I played WoW back in the day because that's where all my friends wandered to after jumping from game to game for a couple years, but I never really got into it, it took me just a month or 2 before I felt I was loggin in just to keep up with my friends, not because I was excited about a nights adventures.
I tell this to everyone because it's 100% true. WoW classic, isn't going to be WoW Classic. It's going to be a new verison of WoW set in the time frame of the original WoW. I think people imagine they just roll back the expansions and let it go. This is 100% going to be developed from the ground up with modifications and changes to the original system. This won't be exactly what you think it might be.
grumble said:These two games seem to be more direct competitors than anything else I know of that is currently in development, so I'm a bit concerned over release timings. Many people will prefer one or the other, but potentially many more will have interest in both.
WoW Classic is likely at least 1.5-2 years away. Pantheon? No idea. Does it seem at all likely that they may release near each other?
Ideally, I'd like to see Pantheon beat Classic WoW to market by at least 6 months. That should be long enough for the WoW hype train to not already be in full gear, and long enough for people to get heavily invested in their Pantheon characters.
My worst nightmare would be both of them releasing within the same month.
I really don't think the games are in competition. The people who this game is being made for aren't likely to go to WoW Classic. I know I'm not. Even Classic WoW was full of the mechanics we now hate. I doubt they will remove things like the auto-group finder and such for dungeoning. I see this as nothing but a roll back of the game to exclude any new zones. I am betting that skill trees and abilities will not change. Else they'd need entirely different server sets and clients. I really doubt WoW Classic is going to be what people think it will be.
In any case, I don't see Pantheon hurting WoW's player base, nor WoW hurting Pantheon's. The only game I forsee getting hurt by Pantheon is EQ's TLP population.
I don't see the two competing at all. I was there when Wow launched, I believe the launch of Wow to be the jumping off point, the slippery spot in the road that set the car into a spin that launched it off that cliff.
"Hey Zork, come to Wow, it's like EQ but they have fixed everything bad about it" was what Nulls said.
What I found was fun for a while, but it quickly became obvious the world was dead.. mobs ignoring you as they walked right past you, empty instances, run right throught a mob camp and just keep running, pass threw a zone once and get a Griff path then never see the zone again. It was small, it was empty, it was lonely.
I sure hope they're not the same game, or even close. Classic Wow will be great for those that don't know any better. But that's not the target audience.
@Zorkon That was exactly my experience. I only stuck with WoW because everyone I knew in DAoC and EQ had moved on, not to WoW but they stopped playing MMOs or went back to old games.
I figured i'd meet new people in WoW and it'd be fine. I was for the most part wrong. Sure I met a few people, but for the most part it was me, soloing or auto-grouping and speed running through dungeons through 90% of the game's life.
Then the MMO boom happened and I bounced from one Modern MMO to another until I became bored of soloing and moved on.
Classic WoW is NOT what i'm looking for, and it never will be. Pantheon sounds a lot closer to what I want.
though it is possible that there is some overlap between the player base of these two games, I dont think WOW classic will harm pantheon, it has missed the train, this train left the station at mid-2015.
when I wanted to return to play WOW classic I played Nostalrius and then Elysium. that itch is scratched and me and many others are not interested in WOW classic anymore, we want what pantheon promisses.
(I dont know if it will deliver, but i hope).
even if both of these games will be released together , WOW classic players will reach 60 quite soon, do all the dungeons and then get stuck at molten core and onyxia, get bored and come to see what is this pantheon thing.
If anything I think WoW classic is going to massively boost the demand the need for a game like Pantheon. Many people will want to play WoW classic and I believe they will love the game more than any modern MMO out there. Once people release that there is no future for WoW classic beyond Naxx (last raiding patch), they will long for another older style MMO where classes are distinct.
I think people will play classic WoW and say I wish MMOs still played like this, this is a lot of fun. And I believe Pantheon will fill that gap, and even provide a greater feeling than classic WoW.
One of the things that has made WoW the ten ton behemoth in the room has been that so many new titles have tried to glom onto some of the same systems that WoW has... quest hubs that lead you around the game world, instanced dungeons, highly scripted encounters, battle grounds for PvP, etc...
AND... WoW does WoW better than its competitors.
I think it's too simplistic to say that people who want Pantheon won't be interested in WoW classic. I suspect that people who played WoW when it first launched, who are also interested in Pantheon, may be torn between which one they want to try. One would hope that those among that group who opt for Pantheon get so hooked on it that they lose interest in WoW classic... and those who opt for WoW classic get their nostalgia fix and then opt for Pantheon.
EDIT: As I think about it, people who started playing WoW sometime after vanilla that still play MIGHT want to see what it was all about... BUT... if they like the current version of WoW, I suspect they won't much like the original version (if they truly roll it back to being like vanilla) Current WoW is vastly different than vanilla.
The original WoW had quick leveling by old school standards, classes that were not nearly as distinct in their roles, rapid transportation, easy soloing (though not as easy as it became), little need to group to go through the content and hit level cap (though groups were needed for some things) etc. It didn't resemble the Pantheon that is intended and that we contributed to help create all that much.
As many others have stated, I don't see this as much of an issue at all. What Pantheon is offering is in exact contrast to classic WoW, which stripped away the feel of danger/risk vs. reward that Pantheon, we hope, will bring back to the table. They will appeal to very different play styles. For this to become an issue, WoW would have to try and create a game that stuck to the same tenants that Pantheon has and I just don't see that happening or Pantheon would just have to be a game we don't want to play. But just to play devil's advocate and say Blizzard did try to create a game based around the tanent's we all hold so dear, how exciting would that be? Two companies competing to create the most innovative, immersive, strategically challenging, group centered PVE based mmorpg, wow, that would be amazing. And from what I've seen of Pantheon, obvioulsy not having played it, even with all the resources Blizzard has, they would have to put out a mind blowing game to compete.
dorotea said:The original WoW had quick leveling by old school standards, classes that were not nearly as distinct in their roles, rapid transportation, easy soloing (though not as easy as it became), little need to group to go through the content and hit level cap (though groups were needed for some things) etc. It didn't resemble the Pantheon that is intended and that we contributed to help create all that much.
Yep, just tested this last week. Gave a noob WoW for the first time (free trial account, anyone can do the same), and she hit level 20 in under 7 hours. Never spoke to another person, did everything on her own, no social interaction of any kind was required or desired. Never even had a person wave, /tell or /say "hello" the entire time. Everyone attacked everything, no kill stealing, no DPS race, no risk of death in the slightest. Absolutely no group content was consumed.
If Pantheon makes personal power progression the most efficient via grouping, they will be fine. If they try to compete with solo games, there is no point.
vjek said:dorotea said:The original WoW had quick leveling by old school standards, classes that were not nearly as distinct in their roles, rapid transportation, easy soloing (though not as easy as it became), little need to group to go through the content and hit level cap (though groups were needed for some things) etc. It didn't resemble the Pantheon that is intended and that we contributed to help create all that much.
Yep, just tested this last week. Gave a noob WoW for the first time (free trial account, anyone can do the same), and she hit level 20 in under 7 hours. Never spoke to another person, did everything on her own, no social interaction of any kind was required or desired. Never even had a person wave, /tell or /say "hello" the entire time. Everyone attacked everything, no kill stealing, no DPS race, no risk of death in the slightest. Absolutely no group content was consumed.
If Pantheon makes personal power progression the most efficient via grouping, they will be fine. If they try to compete with solo games, there is no point.
Current WoW leveling doesn't really compare to vanilla. When WoW launched it was seen (by EQ players) as a game that was "easier" in as much as they had obvious quest lines, modern UI elements, etc... But it was still much, much, more involved than what you will find in the game today.
Wandidar said:vjek said:dorotea said:The original WoW had quick leveling by old school standards, classes that were not nearly as distinct in their roles, rapid transportation, easy soloing (though not as easy as it became), little need to group to go through the content and hit level cap (though groups were needed for some things) etc. It didn't resemble the Pantheon that is intended and that we contributed to help create all that much.
Yep, just tested this last week. Gave a noob WoW for the first time (free trial account, anyone can do the same), and she hit level 20 in under 7 hours. Never spoke to another person, did everything on her own, no social interaction of any kind was required or desired. Never even had a person wave, /tell or /say "hello" the entire time. Everyone attacked everything, no kill stealing, no DPS race, no risk of death in the slightest. Absolutely no group content was consumed.
If Pantheon makes personal power progression the most efficient via grouping, they will be fine. If they try to compete with solo games, there is no point.
Current WoW leveling doesn't really compare to vanilla. When WoW launched it was seen (by EQ players) as a game that was "easier" in as much as they had obvious quest lines, modern UI elements, etc... But it was still much, much, more involved than what you will find in the game today.
While this is true, it was absolutely easier compared to Everquest in 99/2000 in regards to rate of exp gains and almost every other aspect.
Nothing can hold a candle to EQ at release. Where you'd spend months playing 4-6 hours daily and end up lvl 20 :p
WoW Classic isn't a threat to Pantheon if you ask me, but it might take a handful of the potential Pantheon players. Depending on the success of Pantheon even that handful is likely to end up here given the MMO market is largely empty and very stale at the moment (and has been for 10ish years). Those who grew up playing classic WoW as their first MMO are the only ones I imagine that will be entirely enthralled by it's siren song, for the others it might be a fun little romp for a short while but the nostalgia will be short lived.
vjek said:Yep, just tested this last week. Gave a noob WoW for the first time (free trial account, anyone can do the same), and she hit level 20 in under 7 hours. Never spoke to another person, did everything on her own, no social interaction of any kind was required or desired. Never even had a person wave, /tell or /say "hello" the entire time. Everyone attacked everything, no kill stealing, no DPS race, no risk of death in the slightest. Absolutely no group content was consumed.
If Pantheon makes personal power progression the most efficient via grouping, they will be fine. If they try to compete with solo games, there is no point.
To be fair, they have made leveling faster since classic WoW. It was comparatively easy next to FFXI or EQ but not near as easy/fast as WoW is now. But the other parts probably haven't changed much, aside from maybe less zone chatter. Solo grind quest hub after quest hub, read none of it and rarely know why you are doing the things you do, get to an instance and do some group content for a short while before going back to the solo grind.
kellindil said:While this is true, it was absolutely easier compared to Everquest in 99/2000 in regards to rate of exp gains and almost every other aspect.
Everyone seems to have a similar but slightly different take on this. I want to ellaborate on what Kellindil said.
Pantheon is being advertised as having challenging gameplay. Vanilla WoW was not that. So much so that the challenge level became a running joke amongst hundreds of EQ players who tried it on release...and ended up returning to EQ.
Very different target audiences.
I see WoW classic as a nostalgic throwback to WoW while Pantheon is a throwback to 1st gen mmos. They are similar in that sense but that is about it.
"Hopefully" people who consider vanilla wow to be a challenging mmo will have a rude awakening when they play Pantheon. They should if VR delivers on their promises.
philo said:kellindil said:While this is true, it was absolutely easier compared to Everquest in 99/2000 in regards to rate of exp gains and almost every other aspect.
Everyone seems to have a similar but slightly different take on this. I want to ellaborate on what Kellindil said.
Pantheon is being advertised as having challenging gameplay. Vanilla WoW was not that. So much so that the challenge level became a running joke amongst hundreds of EQ players who tried it on release...and ended up returning to EQ.
Very different target audiences.
I see WoW classic as a nostalgic throwback to WoW while Pantheon is a throwback to 1st gen mmos. They are similar in that sense but that is about it.
"Hopefully" people who consider vanilla wow to be a challenging mmo will have a rude awakening when they play Pantheon. They should if VR delivers on their promises.
HA! If Pantheon is half as "bad" as EQ was they will indeed.
WoW Classic is going to be the same thing EQ TLP is. Nastolgia. People who started their MMO career with WoW will be the ones that choose WoW Classic over Pantheon (if any do) simply because they don't know what it was like before WoW. Be assured there are a LOT of people out there that fit this bill. WoW took the MMO into the "mainstream". Everyone knows what WoW is, even those people who barely recognize a computer or know that the internet does not reside within the big blue "E" on their desktop. A lot of children started cutting their teeth on WoW and don't know anything else.
It'll be fun to have rounds of "Spot the WoW kids" when Pantheon launches. (by kids I mean kids who's first MMO experience, and probably only MMO experience was WoW)
vylo said:If I thought Pantheon would resemble WoW Classic closely enough to be considered a direct competitor, I would not have made a contribution to Pantheon.
Exactly this.
I don't see them that way. I liked WoW and all but this game has roots that really resinate with me.
I've always described Wow as a good game for first timers to cut their teeth on, but its not for me. :) I remember EQII and Wow coming out around the same time, I think SOE was trying to one up the release of Wow in 2004. I did a bit of beta time on Wow..and played for about 3 months, got bored with it, moved on. Vanilla Wow was fun when pvp was open world and not pvp in a box, you could try to defend your village from rampaging higher levels. Then it changed. The daily grind doesn't appeal to me either. Prefer to do my own choice of daily tasks that matter to my character, not ordered by the game.