Menubrea said:Level 50, 24 minute buffs and 1 minute slows.. No thanks...
Not something to read much into this early into development. Numbers are probably all over the place, and plenty of abilities are likely missing, end up being scraped or reworked completely.
What we can take away from this though, is the type of abilities and buffs we can expect from the Shaman class. Nothing particularly unexpected with DoTs, stat buffs and debuffs, but cool nonetheless.
Pretty much. Final or even semi-final versions of numbers haven't even come close to being calculated yet. Right now they're just testing functionality. Can't expect the length of the skills to be completely finished and primed just yet. All the number tweaking for length and effectiveness will happen when it moves into alpha and beta. It goes without saying that the final versions will higher in duration.
Rogue said: ... Level 50, 24 minute buffs and 1 minute slows.. No thanks...
Yeah, and I know the "but it's just" brigade is already all over this, yet... it should already be longer for both, as in, double minimum. It's not even within the realm of reasonable at those numbers.
I'm aware, pre-alpha, etc, etc. Even so.. If we see these type of values... it's worrying.
vjek said:Rogue said: ... Level 50, 24 minute buffs and 1 minute slows.. No thanks...Yeah, and I know the "but it's just" brigade is already all over this, yet... it should already be longer for both, as in, double minimum. It's not even within the realm of reasonable at those numbers.
I'm aware, pre-alpha, etc, etc. Even so.. If we see these type of values... it's worrying.
I mean, it's a fair counter argument since most classes aren't even and in, and those who are, are still just mostly just a bare skeleton of their complete design. I'm surprised no one has kicked a fuss about the Warrior abilities shown, to be honest. If people want to be critical, the blandness and lack of creativity on those is a lot more worrying. Tweaking durations is an absolute non-issue at this stage.
A lot will happen between now and release, and kicking up fuss about more or less placeholder material is one of several reasons why developers are reluctant to show early development footage to begin with. No matter what the developers say, a lot of people will take what they see at face value.
I'm 99% sure there will be items available to extend the durations of those buffs by quite a lot, given that the values look comparable to EQ values and buff duration extension items exist over there, too.
That said, I also have to agree that I have always hated the wildly different durations of various buffs in EQ and how short some of them can be. Vanguard did it better imo where everything at least had a base of 1hr if I'm not mistaken. That is, of course, excluding short duration combat buffs which understandably only have a duration of 30 seconds at most.
Shaman slows in EQ had a duration of 5-6 minutes at the high end if memory serves. That would be a lot more reasonable of a duration for a "long term detrimental" effect.
Edit: To take this on a bit of a more advanced route:
I think it would be prudent to categorize buffs from a design perspective and have things be relatively consistent across the board. For instance:
1. Long duration beneficial: Base duration 1hr. Items available in game to extend this based on the potency of the item's effect. Could start at 25% (1h15m) at the lowest and go up to 400% on raid items (4hr).
2. Short duration beneficial: 1m or shorter duration. Temporary combat buffs like EQ's disciplines, varying durations depending on the effect, may or may not be extensible with items. Heal over time effects also apply.
4. Long duration detrimental: Base duration 5m. DoTs, slows, snares, etc.
4. Short duration detrimental: 1m or shorter duration. Max HP/AC/stat debuffs, mostly.
Unlike EQ, I'd rather not see stuff all over the place as far as durations go.
Porygon said:Liav said:Shaman slows in EQ had a duration of 5-6 minutes at the high end if memory serves. That would be a lot more reasonable of a duration for a "long term detrimental" effect.
Shamans didn't get a slow over ~2mins until kunark.
Yep. Turgur's Insects is what I was referring to. Kunark era spell.
vjek said:Rogue said: ... Level 50, 24 minute buffs and 1 minute slows.. No thanks...Yeah, and I know the "but it's just" brigade is already all over this, yet... it should already be longer for both, as in, double minimum. It's not even within the realm of reasonable at those numbers.
I'm aware, pre-alpha, etc, etc. Even so.. If we see these type of values... it's worrying.
It occurs to me that, in addition to what @Liav said :
I'm 99% sure there will be items available to extend the durations of those buffs by quite a lot, given that the values look comparable to EQ values and buff duration extension items exist over there, too.
I believe these spells were listed in the dscriptors (the mouse-over tips in the stream) as [L1] or perhaps [L2] .. indicating, perhpas that this was the 'Level 1' or even 'Level 2' version of these spells ... not the 'higher end' versions of these spells (something they have mentions in regards to spells/abilities) and so these durations might merely represent:
Base duration and effect, relying on the minimum spell power version and without enhancements (items/buffs/stats)
Evoras, imagines balancing will occur throughout alpha/beta...
