It's a slow day at work, so I'm watching a little stranger things to refresh myself before season 2 this week. The abhorration that is hunting them throughout the show inspired me to think about what we might expect from Pantheon's beastiary. What king of mob archetypes would you like to see?
I remember Kilsin talking about vampirism at some point, and personally I would love to see:
-a vampiric faction of creatures, with some innovative lifesteal techniques, diseases, etc.
-an appropriate underwater faction (not iksar, froglok, or jellyfish esque in PoWater; rather, something new/original that is a little more scary/threatening)
-a wizard or magician order whom shapeshift into creatures or can summon them like gandalf, giving you a very dynamic fight, requiring knowledge of various species throughout Terminus.
-some sort of nighttime spawning humanoid Werewolf faction or world boss that will roam forests
I was thinking about this a little bit after reading the post on Player run speed vs Mob run speed.
I've always been a fan of undead type mobs. There are so many different ways they can be done, and in the right setting and context, can easily increase the sense of danger and even fear in an MMO environment. Kithicor comes to mind, as it does to so many of us.
One thing I would like to see are some undeads types that are akin to the zombies (or mutants) you'd find in a movie like World War Z or I Am Legend.
Picturing it gives me goosebumps. You're walking along a path in a dark forest or dungeon, with nothing but a torch to guide your way and you can hardly see past the pool of light it creates. You turn a corner, or a bend, and your torch suddenly illuminates a small group of these zombies/mutants standing placidly together and hardly moving. Almost as one, they all very slowly turn your direction. They notice you, and explode in a flurry of movement as they sprint impossibly fast right at you with flailing arms and slavering jaws. Like a lightswitch, they go from motionless undead things to maddened, furious abominations with nothing but crazed bloodlust and hate. They have a long aggro range, trying to outrun them is impossible, and they hear the slightest sound - BUT they are only attracted to light. Walk past with no torch in the darkness, stumbling along and hoping you don't run right into them, and you just might make it by without their notice.
Yea... stuff like that.
Adding to this - and hopefully not derailing it:
Greater Faydark had bats, bees, skeletons, spiders, and more... BUT... while all of them were things to kill, none of them were your ENEMY. Your enemy in GFay... were the Orcs.
You started out fearing them, learned to hate them, and relished killing them. I always ask for this in a new MMO, and this seems a fitting spot... I think every noob area should have an "enemy" - a race / archetype / whatever... that, for the rest of the time you play the game, you, as a player will have a special affinity to in as much as whenever you see them, you will get those same feelings you had when you first started the game.
I'd go WAY out of my way to kill an Orc if I saw one in EQ. I'd like to have a similar experience in Pantheon.
It would be great if different noob areas had different enemies.
Wandidar said:Adding to this - and hopefully not derailing it:
Greater Faydark had bats, bees, skeletons, spiders, and more... BUT... while all of them were things to kill, none of them were your ENEMY. Your enemy in GFay... were the Orcs.
You started out fearing them, learned to hate them, and relished killing them. I always ask for this in a new MMO, and this seems a fitting spot... I think every noob area should have an "enemy" - a race / archetype / whatever... that, for the rest of the time you play the game, you, as a player will have a special affinity to in as much as whenever you see them, you will get those same feelings you had when you first started the game.
I'd go WAY out of my way to kill an Orc if I saw one in EQ. I'd like to have a similar experience in Pantheon.
It would be great if different noob areas had different enemies.
100% agreed.
I'd like to add that I think a large part of the experience you're referring to had as much, if not more to do with those wandering orcs you might run into and struggle with while exploring. Those red conned jerks that would kill your lvl 2 wood elf because you weren't watching where you were going. It's as much having the enemy of the zone as it is learning to fear that enemy, which is something many MMO's are lacking.
When you feel safe wandering a zone, when you know that even if you aggro something above your level you can just outrun them and escape, when that enemy doesn't pose a real threat, you don't fear it. I would say you go out of your way because of the fear they gave you at early levels, and vengeance is sweet.
Tralyan said:Wandidar said:Adding to this - and hopefully not derailing it:
Greater Faydark had bats, bees, skeletons, spiders, and more... BUT... while all of them were things to kill, none of them were your ENEMY. Your enemy in GFay... were the Orcs.
You started out fearing them, learned to hate them, and relished killing them. I always ask for this in a new MMO, and this seems a fitting spot... I think every noob area should have an "enemy" - a race / archetype / whatever... that, for the rest of the time you play the game, you, as a player will have a special affinity to in as much as whenever you see them, you will get those same feelings you had when you first started the game.
I'd go WAY out of my way to kill an Orc if I saw one in EQ. I'd like to have a similar experience in Pantheon.
It would be great if different noob areas had different enemies.
100% agreed.
I'd like to add that I think a large part of the experience you're referring to had as much, if not more to do with those wandering orcs you might run into and struggle with while exploring. Those red conned jerks that would kill your lvl 2 wood elf because you weren't watching where you were going. It's as much having the enemy of the zone as it is learning to fear that enemy, which is something many MMO's are lacking.
When you feel safe wandering a zone, when you know that even if you aggro something above your level you can just outrun them and escape, when that enemy doesn't pose a real threat, you don't fear it. I would say you go out of your way because of the fear they gave you at early levels, and vengeance is sweet.
You guys make good points. Since they've already stressed the importance/design of bringing people back to lower level zones, it would be cool if they also gave us incentive to kill our sworn enemies (like the orcs in this example). Whether through faction or some other incentive, I too would love that feeling of wanting to down an orc when I see one (I mained a woodelf ranger).
All of the zombies jumping out at you in the first example gave me a cool idea I've never really thought of; if maybe mobs blended or were entirely invisible, but come out of certain structures or certain parts of the wall, forcing you to slowly walk/scale borders until you draw aggro, since you have no idea where they will come from. If they made respawns quick in this area, it would be an adrenaline rush having to move at a slow pace yet kill quickly (they could implement fears or other mob mechanics to further increase the risk of being unprepared or out of position in this area, for a fear to another part of the room or wall could mean 3 more adds etc since you can't see the mobs). Undetectable with see invis etc (I suppose theoretically they could spawn out in the open too). Does this sound cool or doable?
I hope VR is able to implement the dynamic world events between mob archetypes like hill giant city being attacked by storm giants after players kill enough hill giants to weaken them. There are quite a few that could be built up that also work well as opposing factions that players can choose to aid or fight much like the Velious armor quests.
Pairs I can think of:
Werewolves vs Vampires
Fire genies vs Water and Earth vs Air
Light fae vs Dark fae
Animal totem tribes fighting over control of a sacred hunting ground
Carnivores vs Herbivores
It would also be interesting if each race also brought a racial enemy with them from their shard.
Tralyan said:Picturing it gives me goosebumps. You're walking along a path in a dark forest or dungeon, with nothing but a torch to guide your way and you can hardly see past the pool of light it creates. You turn a corner, or a bend, and your torch suddenly illuminates a small group of these zombies/mutants standing placidly together and hardly moving. Almost as one, they all very slowly turn your direction. They notice you, and explode in a flurry of movement as they sprint impossibly fast right at you with flailing arms and slavering jaws. Like a lightswitch, they go from motionless undead things to maddened, furious abominations with nothing but crazed bloodlust and hate. They have a long aggro range, trying to outrun them is impossible, and they hear the slightest sound - BUT they are only attracted to light. Walk past with no torch in the darkness, stumbling along and hoping you don't run right into them, and you just might make it by without their notice.
Yea... stuff like that.
I'd love a "Kithicor" like zone where night brings genuine fear. It would be amazing to see a supernatural darkness roll in with the night, where all you can see beyond a certain point is the deepest of black that consumes all light, impenetrable by light sources and all vision types. Add in terrifying ambient sounds and high level undead/supernatural mobs.
As for mob types? I'd like to see all the staples we know and love with their own Terminus flair as well as any number of often overlooked creatures you can find in something like DnD.
Mindflayer, Aboleth, Hobgoblin, Maenad, Troglodytes, Gorgon, Lamia, Doppelganger (how cool would it be to have a mob turn into a party member?), Medusa, Sahuagin, Formian, Barghest, Naga & Snakefolk, Dromite, Jelly/Ooze/Gelo, Kolyarut
All the things!
Iksar said:Tralyan said:Picturing it gives me goosebumps. You're walking along a path in a dark forest or dungeon, with nothing but a torch to guide your way and you can hardly see past the pool of light it creates. You turn a corner, or a bend, and your torch suddenly illuminates a small group of these zombies/mutants standing placidly together and hardly moving. Almost as one, they all very slowly turn your direction. They notice you, and explode in a flurry of movement as they sprint impossibly fast right at you with flailing arms and slavering jaws. Like a lightswitch, they go from motionless undead things to maddened, furious abominations with nothing but crazed bloodlust and hate. They have a long aggro range, trying to outrun them is impossible, and they hear the slightest sound - BUT they are only attracted to light. Walk past with no torch in the darkness, stumbling along and hoping you don't run right into them, and you just might make it by without their notice.
Yea... stuff like that.
I'd love a "Kithicor" like zone where night brings genuine fear. It would be amazing to see a supernatural darkness roll in with the night, where all you can see beyond a certain point is the deepest of black that consumes all light, impenetrable by light sources and all vision types. Add in terrifying ambient sounds and high level undead/supernatural mobs.
As for mob types? I'd like to see all the staples we know and love with their own Terminus flair as well as any number of often overlooked creatures you can find in something like DnD.
Mindflayer, Aboleth, Hobgoblin, Maenad, Troglodytes, Gorgon, Lamia, Doppelganger (how cool would it be to have a mob turn into a party member?), Medusa, Sahuagin, Formian, Barghest, Naga & Snakefolk, Dromite, Jelly/Ooze/Gelo, Kolyarut
All the things!
Yes, I really want them to go more hardcore for night time vision impairment, weather vision impairment etc. Just adds so much excitement, danger, and immersion. I want my elf's inreased night vision to actually mean something too : )
Iksar said:I'd love a "Kithicor" like zone where night brings genuine fear. It would be amazing to see a supernatural darkness roll in with the night, where all you can see beyond a certain point is the deepest of black that consumes all light, impenetrable by light sources and all vision types. Add in terrifying ambient sounds and high level undead/supernatural mobs.
As for mob types? I'd like to see all the staples we know and love with their own Terminus flair as well as any number of often overlooked creatures you can find in something like DnD.
Mindflayer, Aboleth, Hobgoblin, Maenad, Troglodytes, Gorgon, Lamia, Doppelganger (how cool would it be to have a mob turn into a party member?), Medusa, Sahuagin, Formian, Barghest, Naga & Snakefolk, Dromite, Jelly/Ooze/Gelo, Kolyarut
All the things!
This is somewhat of a technical question, but how hard would it be exactly to create those types of doppleganger encounters? Not just visually, but in every aspect? Mob in question casts a spell of mimicry and becomes Tralyan, with all his stats, skills, and weapons, fighting against the group and against the real Tralyan? Would that be particularly hard to code?
The idea makes me irrationally happy.
I can already envision the funny stories this would create. You'd end up being "that guy", the guy that ALWAYS seems to get mimicked.
"Oh, don't invite that Iksar dude, he'll just end up betraying you and attacking the group."
Ha.
Iksar said:Tralyan said:Picturing it gives me goosebumps. You're walking along a path in a dark forest or dungeon, with nothing but a torch to guide your way and you can hardly see past the pool of light it creates. You turn a corner, or a bend, and your torch suddenly illuminates a small group of these zombies/mutants standing placidly together and hardly moving. Almost as one, they all very slowly turn your direction. They notice you, and explode in a flurry of movement as they sprint impossibly fast right at you with flailing arms and slavering jaws. Like a lightswitch, they go from motionless undead things to maddened, furious abominations with nothing but crazed bloodlust and hate. They have a long aggro range, trying to outrun them is impossible, and they hear the slightest sound - BUT they are only attracted to light. Walk past with no torch in the darkness, stumbling along and hoping you don't run right into them, and you just might make it by without their notice.
Yea... stuff like that.
I'd love a "Kithicor" like zone where night brings genuine fear. It would be amazing to see a supernatural darkness roll in with the night, where all you can see beyond a certain point is the deepest of black that consumes all light, impenetrable by light sources and all vision types. Add in terrifying ambient sounds and high level undead/supernatural mobs.
As for mob types? I'd like to see all the staples we know and love with their own Terminus flair as well as any number of often overlooked creatures you can find in something like DnD.
Mindflayer, Aboleth, Hobgoblin, Maenad, Troglodytes, Gorgon, Lamia, Doppelganger (how cool would it be to have a mob turn into a party member?), Medusa, Sahuagin, Formian, Barghest, Naga & Snakefolk, Dromite, Jelly/Ooze/Gelo, Kolyarut
All the things!
Didnt see the bottom part of your post; pure gold! Dear god bring those DnD creatures in here (wish I didn't get rid of all my old books now!)
Zuljan said:It's a slow day at work, so I'm watching a little stranger things to refresh myself before season 2 this week. The abhorration that is hunting them throughout the show inspired me to think about what we might expect from Pantheon's beastiary. What king of mob archetypes would you like to see?
I remember Kilsin talking about vampirism at some point, and personally I would love to see:
-a vampiric faction of creatures, with some innovative lifesteal techniques, diseases, etc.
-an appropriate underwater faction (not iksar, froglok, or jellyfish esque in PoWater; rather, something new/original that is a little more scary/threatening)
-a wizard or magician order whom shapeshift into creatures or can summon them like gandalf, giving you a very dynamic fight, requiring knowledge of various species throughout Terminus.
-some sort of nighttime spawning humanoid Werewolf faction or world boss that will roam forests
The archetypes, at a minimum, should parallel those of the player classes. I should expect to come across mob that are druids, while other are warriors or wizard or shaman, etc. Those NPC should have access to the entire spectrum of skills, ability and spells that players have at that level.
Undead, giant, dragon, etc, are species, and even there we should see just a huge plethora of species all filled with the archetypes of our classes. So we should see undead wizards, vampire shaman, dragon magicians, giant dire lords, etc.
I would love to see flying mobs.
Drakes, Griffins, Wyrvens. Eagels, 2 headed birds, Gargoyles, bees, wasps and butterflies, Unicorns and Phoenix boss mobs would also be cool. I like when mobs is above me and not just on ground lvl.
Also I'd like to see more insects maybe some of these could have a borrow down skill, the player can see a small pile of dirt on the ground. If he walks on the borrowed mob it would agro him. mobs beneath our feet would make players think twice on where they run.
These mobs could also be an evil mole type of creature that only goes to ground lvl at night. Or it could be a horned Beetle and other insects that more natually to burrow down. It could be skelly, zombies and ghouls waiting to grasp your feet as you pass above them.
I like the vampire idea, also the invis mob idea made me think of evil shades. Also the dnd list iksar put up it made me think of a loot horder or loot goblins type of mob, that would not want to fight the player, but to steal he's silver and get away, hunting these could profit in some random loot or coin loot :)
Also mobs that looks nasty like big maggots or worms. Scorpions, big grasshoppers with arms as sharp as blades. There are more than 1 million species of insects, most of these if enlarged to player size would be a terrible foe.
Also I like when things get combined. element + a creature. Like an elemental fire panther or an ice fox or something els to take a more or less standard creature and enhance it in some way so fits "better" in a high fantasy setting.
I would also love to see faries, io's and pixies i like that these small creatures was so strong in Eq, atleast early on in the game. They were so easy to underestimate.
Also i want BIG creatures, Bears as big as a modern tank, Elefants and Mammoths, Turtels, Rinos, Elgs, Buffalos or Bisons, Gekos and lizards. Size Matters Kappa!! :)
Have a great day everyone!
So many awesome ideas here. I went back and searched online for DnD info. Some of the best creatures Id forgotten:
-Beholders,
-displacer beast/neolethid (these were so specifically evil, even shunned by their own race)
-tarrasque
-shadows (would be really cool to see some caster centric place, for I can't really recall dungeons focusing on caster DPS off of thetop ofmy head)
-wights/succubi/liches
-rust monsters/xorn (someone already mentioned this mechanic and perhaps it is too hardcore a design on its own, but if maybe instead it took away your weapon/armor power instead of destroying it)
-aboleth (something like this would be awesome aquatic creature. They really need something scarier as per aquatic mobs)
-manticore (previous post mentioned flyers, I love these and a couple others over the typical owlbear)
-fast spawning area of quicklings or just quicklings in general could be a lot of fun to play with (can you imagine alarmist quicklings! hah! devs would have fun watching us all die free on that)
-drows (idk if they can pull this off with lore, but Drizzt and drows were just awesome)
People have mentioned large animals (bears, lions etc). I just really hope they don't make these creatures high level (unless it's charmed or buffed by some necrotic, druid, or ranger NPC). It feels so soul-crushingly anti-immersive when you're fighting a level 40 rat, and all of the bosses you killed at lower levels looked/seemed 10x as menacing as this (think plane of justice, I finally made it there and was like what, I have to kill rats again). It just seems uncreative (or maybe it was a funding issue since it would require creating many more mob models), but it truly feels bad to encounter that (just my personal opinion).
It would be interesting if many of the different archetypes had specific combat techniques to defeat them. Things like cold iron for fae, silver for werewolves and vampires, ghost touch for shades, blunt weapons for slimes and the like. Those are the easy D&D throw back ones but you could tie in things like player created rain would debuff fire elementals or turn off their fire shield allowing melee to kill it.
Trasak
BamBam said:I would love to see flying mobs.
Drakes, Griffins, Wyrvens. Eagels, 2 headed birds, Gargoyles, bees, wasps and butterflies, Unicorns Pegasus and Phoenix boss mobs would also be cool. I like when mobs is above me and not just on ground lvl....
Fixed that for ya. ;)
I haven't played any of the EQ variants before so I have no idea what to expect for mobs.
But for me, I love exploring areas with hostile, primal, violent beast. Where when you walk into an area, you feel like prey, because large hulking monsters are going about their lives, protecting their young or looking for food... scouting out a heard of highly defensive animals, where you can't really just split one off from the group because their natural instinct to stay together is too strong... or you group is is going about their business following what appears to nature trail and being ambushed at a choke point by a hungry predator or even predators....
I'm hoping for some uniquely created humanoid NPC races with rich lore, distinct personality and easiliy recognizable architecture. In addition, I'm a bit tired of seeing 10 different variations of bats, wolves and bears across various zones in games. I'd like to see more monsters that not only look terrifying, but is also terrifying to deal with. The kind of monsters that make the world feel alive, and make you think twice about taking shortcuts while traveling the world.
I'm not sure what level the entire group was in the TwitchCon video (shaman was 50 but the warrior was 17), but we already saw tiny little spiders beating on them, so I hope like others have expressed, we don't see recycled bats, wolves, spiders killing us at 50 while we can kill a level 20 raid target etc (at least make the spiders bigger or something I say?). There were also small spiders when they were crawling in Amberfaet, which I believe is a higher level zone.
Zuljan said:I'm not sure what level the entire group was in the TwitchCon video (shaman was 50 but the warrior was 17), but we already saw tiny little spiders whooping them, so I hope like others have expressed, we don't see recycled bats, wolves, spiders killing us at 50 while we can kill a level 20 raid target etc (at least make the spiders bigger or something I say?). There were also small spiders when they were crawling in Amberfaet (isn't amberfaet higher level?).
Seconding this. I can understand the different variations of some predators. Bears and wolves have had, in mythology, countless variations that could be used within Pantheon. Dire, were, rabid, etc.
But spiders? Doesn't matter what you call the dam things if they're small enough to be squished with a shoe.
For me, the undead are my favorite scary enemies.
I think archetypes could be
That got me thinking:
I'd love to see bird-enemies that use flight to evade and attack. We have to figure out how to fight them as they swoop in, instead of just ground based birds (ala KFC). Also, I think it would be scary to go through a zone being afraid of getting ambused from above.
fazool said:For me, the undead are my favorite scary enemies.
I think archetypes could be
- undead
- animals
- demonic
- sentient plants
- other races
- hybrid races/animals
- slimes/oozes
- birds/raptors
- fish
That got me thinking:
I'd love to see bird-enemies that use flight to evade and attack. We have to figure out how to fight them as they swoop in, instead of just ground based birds (ala KFC). Also, I think it would be scary to go through a zone being afraid of getting ambused from above.
I guess there really can be a lot of innovation done with flight mobs. There's the more obvious flight abilities to evade or present a new mechanic/challenge for combat I think most are referring to, but I can't recall having to hold r click/use first person to check in the air in an open environment or on the ceilings of dungeons to for mobs. That'd be a cool new challenge, figuring out flight paths/patrols.
Id love to see some type of Rock monster, where you would be walking by this rather unassuming looking rock or cliff Etc and you think nothing of it because well its JUST a pile or rocks right? and then suddenly this rock turns out to be a rock type monster Or Monsters, you then attack it or them with your trusty sword and Nothing No damage done to the now more angry rock monster and then you thinking Oh crap im going to die why cant i hit it? then after youve died and came back Or you ran away you realize that maybe using a sword to hit a rock isnt the smartest thing to do, SO what would work on it? a Mace Maybe? something blunt but able to do Crushing damage? Lets try that, this time you can do damage, Do you win? who knows but at least This time you can actually deal damage to the Rock monster.
Id love to see Spectres where you cant attack them with a normal weapon, you need a Magic weapon to be able to hit it, and certain spells or of zero use against them.
Ghouls, vampires and any number or supernatural mobs are awesome.
Id love to see Basalisks that can Stun you and are immune to stun themselves, you could have different varieties of these, lava versions that are immune to fire attacks, Etc
Ogers that are immune to being stunned and ignore taunt
Humanoid mobs that are smart and work together with spells and abilities that compliment eachother to give us a nice challenge.
Gnolls I loved and at the same time HATED gnolls, I have many a good memory of blackburrow.
KOS roaming Npc's like that A hole Inky that roamed the commons lol
Bring back the Danger! the Risk! and the Fun!!!