oneADseven said:Sorry, the response I gave was just my best guess of what I think will happen. I have no idea whether or not there will be phases for both closed and open beta.
*snip*
No worries, I just thought maybe you had seen a post I had missed.
So on the pre-alpha timeline, estimating few weeks to two months max... are you thinking this as just the testing phase or the correction as well? I'm totally just guessing but I would expect that long of testing, and then we're out while they patch up the code and servers, then on to the next phase.
It's nice to think they can just fix problems on the fly, but how realistic is that?
oneADseven said:Enitzu said:oneADseven said:2 months pre-alpha, 4 months alpha, 6 months closed beta. Then open beta as long as necessary until launch. This is assuming a 1 year testing phase as a goal, but also leaves some wiggle room at the end with open beta.
Alpha's will be much longer than that. Those time frames won't even give them time to make changes much less finish developing the rest of the content. More like 5-6 months pre alpha, 4-6 months alpha, 1 yr beta
What are you basing that off of? Here is a quote from Kilsin back in January:
"Kilsin - 01/06/2017 Pre-Alpha is a stepping stone to helping us catch some glaring bugs/issues and helping us set up Alpha testing, it won't for a huge testing period but it will be a very important one, maybe a few weeks/month or two at max then into Alpha"
I'm not saying things haven't changed, but based on that (which is the only statement I have seen with any definitive timeline for how long pre-alpha will last) I can't imagine pre-alpha lasting any longer than 2 months. With what you are saying, it would seem that testing would take almost 2 years. Aradune has hinted that he would like to be in testing for a full year. Please see the second to last sentence in this article:
https://www.frailage.com/index.php/131-aradune-ama
There is also this from the FAQ:
8.2.1 How long will you test Pantheon (alpha/beta) before launch?
Ideally, we want to be in testing for a full year -- this approach helped launch past games in a solid, balanced way, and we want this for Pantheon as well.
I understand none of this is set in stone, but do you have any recent information that supports your estimated timeline? Thanks in advance.
Only really basing it off of all the past alpha/beta's I've been involved with. I've personally never seen a pre alpha last only 2 months. If that is the case then there will be some considerably pissed off people who paid $750 more to get into pre alpha testing. Pre alpha is generally where a large majority of big bugs get found. So unless they did a fantastic job at creating the game (which I hope is true), then 2 months is just not enough time with limited testing to find and fix these issues.
If this is the case and we only spend a couple months in pre alpha, then we will see a pretty long alpha phase. I mean they still have what 20ish zones to produce? That's not counting all of the other content, raids/dungeons/etc, to script and all. There's still a lot of work to do. I say this because iirc they said they would have around 32 zones at launch and last I heard they had 13 done. Like I said in another post, I haven't been watching these forums or anything lately so that number could have changed by now but I know it takes time to create everything that goes into the zones and expecting the entire game to be done in a year is still wishful thinkin in my opinion. I hope I'm wrong there but I don't think I am. I am looking at a summer 2019 launch window, maybe even pushed back to sept/oct
I hear you Enitzu. Personally, I would like to see pre-alpha stretched out a bit longer than 2 months. This is how it's defined on the FAQ:
8.2 Can you explain Pre-alpha and the other testing phases?
"Pre-alpha means that the game is still under heavy development. Some mechanics may not be in the game yet and everything you see could be changed before release. Next is Alpha, and then Beta. We stress the semantics because we have Pre-alpha, Alpha, and Beta access available at different pledge levels."
I would like to see the semantics stressed in greater detail because as of right now, the expectation set for me is that pre-alpha will be a few weeks to two months max. There is a lot of ambiguity behind anything related to testing and I hope some of this stuff gets cleared up a bit so that people can better manage their expectations. If someone is thinking they are going to see 4-5 months of pre-alpha, it's safe to assume that they will probably be disappointed. If Pre-alpha means "the game is still under heavy development" does that mean it will transition to not being under heavy development within a short window of just 2 months? Was pre-pre-alpha under "extra heavy" development? Hard to gauge anything with certainty but hopefully we'll learn more soon enough.
Also remember that none of this is written in stone, depends what happens in each phase, might be sooner, might later, not something that is predictable if anomalies pop up. Newer people that haven't tested before, need to know this. Created characters could be wiped..depending what's being repaired or done over. Go in with the idea that it will still be a work in progress, not early access, not a sneak peek, and hopefully follow any instructions given us by the Dev Team, its important that we do as we are asked.
Cana
bryanleo9 said: The main continent of the game, Reighfall, we have seen or heard zero about. It is possible it hasn't even been started on yet. We also have only seen a handful of classes with no skill sets / spells, special abilities attached to them. We have also only seen a few races. Are the others not developed yet. This is a great team that I trust but it's a very small team, most working remotely. EQ next had a massive in house team and the game seemed to take a long time before we know what. There seems to be a ton of work to go and pre alpha probably won't happen until spring 2018 at the earliest. I hope the pre alpha testers get a nice test period for their major contributions, but we must be realistic. This game will probably come out in 2020.
Your post is filled with unqualified opinions and basically sounds like a troll.
Fact: Pantheon is playing very close to the vest with information. Overhype can be more of a killer for a game than actual gameplay. Case in point "No Man's Sky".
Fact: Making a new class is not hard today. Back in 1995 when they were copying from Gary Gygax's "Dungeons & Dragons", coding RPG classes for the first time ever in the history of MMOs, that was hard. it's almost a cookie cutter operation today. Making combat work well, that is hard, every time.
Fact: Game studio positions can and do work remotely. This is nothing amazing in and of itself. But some positions are much more crucial to actual development and best practice is for those to be in constant first person contact. Case in point, Community Manager/social media manager, easy to be remote. Not critical to any part of development. Subject to change on launch though. :)
Fact: EQ Next did not have a massive team, SOE had a massive team. SoE was notorious for stealing resources from one game to work on another project. And H1Z1 was the new hot project. Also SoE was more interested in being sold than making another failed EQ2 clone. They sunk enough resources into the failure that became Landmark and got enough very negative feedback at the convention reveal to know it was DOA.
Fact: A pre-alpha could start any time. There are no hard and fast rules. The big push for any MMO is content, zones, mobs, quests, bosses, gear, etc. Once basic functionality and balance is hammered out and there is enough content for some grindy testing to expose bugs, an alpha in some form could occur. And of course an alpha could be stopped just as easily if a major issue or gameplay problem is discovered. And frankly if the game is just not fun, that could also signal a stop and major re-tooling of mechanics.
I am considering upgrading my pledge from Champion to VIP so I can participate in Pre-Alpha, but I feel I do not have enough information to make a decision at this stage. In particular, I would like to know the approximate length of Pre-Alpha. I hope we get to know this before the Pre-Alpha pledges are closed off to further subscription.
Bunkus said:I am considering upgrading my pledge from Champion to VIP so I can participate in Pre-Alpha, but I feel I do not have enough information to make a decision at this stage. In particular, I would like to know the approximate length of Pre-Alpha. I hope we get to know this before the Pre-Alpha pledges are closed off to further subscription.
Feel the same, but understand that they cant really know until we get there. An educated guess would even be nice but it seems when devs give any dates it just has way more possible negative outcomes than positive ones. Hopefully it's not more than a month or two, people pledging $1000 and up shouldn't feel cheated by any amount of testing period because they are donating money towards development first and foremost with the perks being an extra thank you.
on the stream it was mentioned pre-alpha pledge won't be there for much longer, so if you want to do it, now would be the time to pull the trigger.
Durp said:on the stream it was mentioned pre-alpha pledge won't be there for much longer, so if you want to do it, now would be the time to pull the trigger.
True enough. I can't sapare the cash for that atm but happy testing for those that do. I wonder how many pre-alpha testing phases they're gunning for.
Durp said:on the stream it was mentioned pre-alpha pledge won't be there for much longer, so if you want to do it, now would be the time to pull the trigger.
Yeah, I watched the stream and heard that comment. I am starting to get a real feel for the world already; it's exciting!
I would like to contribute to Pre-Alpha testing, but will have to wait and see if more information is forthcoming.
I'm on the fence about upgrading to VIP status. I am so very tempted after yesterdays stream. Just wish we had a couple more details about a few things.
1) How long is Pre-Alpha expected to last? If its just a month or two, I think I can hold out for Alpha access.
2) What will the monthly subscription rates be? I know this has yet to be determined, but getting those numbers would help us fence-sitters evaluate the extra investment.
and of course...
3) When will Pre-Alpha begin? The seasons are turning. The days are getting shorter and the temperatures are dipping. Outdoor activities will be going away soon. Pantheon Pre-Alpha could be the perfect way to fill those cold dark evenings.
Help us fence-sitters out with some deets!
Homercles said:I'm on the fence about upgrading to VIP status. I am so very tempted after yesterdays stream. Just wish we had a couple more details about a few things.
1) How long is Pre-Alpha expected to last? If its just a month or two, I think I can hold out for Alpha access.
2) What will the monthly subscription rates be? I know this has yet to be determined, but getting those numbers would help us fence-sitters evaluate the extra investment.
and of course...
3) When will Pre-Alpha begin? The seasons are turning. The days are getting shorter and the temperatures are dipping. Outdoor activities will be going away soon. Pantheon Pre-Alpha could be the perfect way to fill those cold dark evenings.
Help us fence-sitters out with some deets!
From my understanding, Pre-alpha won't be something that you can always be on. A big thing is that they will only have pre-alpha accesable at times when they've realesed more content. That alone kinda shows that Pre-alpha will take awhile, not just a simple 2 month process. I had done some research the other night, and alpha is going to be launched when the entire continent of Kingsreach is ready. And if I'm correct, thats probably a longs way away. Regardless, upgrading to VIP isn't just offering you Pre-alpha, it also gets you some other stuff so that in itself should be put into consideration. Not to mention that upgrading greatly helps VR
So... I wanted to add something that may help you and others out Homercles.
I was one of the first 100 testers selected to help test SWG before launch. It's essentially similar to the way pre-alpha will work here. The way it worked is that the developers would occasionally open the servers for testing, and we'd all log in to help with whatever test they had in mind. Things like:
1) All of us crowding into a single building to see if we could make the client crash
2) All of us running as far as we can in the world while the devs watched to see how the server was scaling
3) All of us shooting blasters at an inanimate object (a cafe parasol) that had infinite hitpoints, in order to see how the server held up under combat conditions
4) All of us going back and forth between two shuttle stops to see if we could break something while repeatedly loading into the world.
... and so on.
Assuming that things work similarly here, Pre-Alpha (and possibly even Alpha) won't mean that you get access to the full world. It won't mean that you see any real content or get to experience much at all. It's very likely going to be focused testing to help the developers just make sure that they avoid things like the servers hanging up and crashing every 5 minutes. Will it be interesting? Absolutely. Maybe even fun. But it won't really be "early access to the game world".
For me, I'm content to just stick with Supporter status, not because I can't afford a higher pledge (although believe me the money's a factor), but because I feel like if I'm going to sign myself up for that I need to be available to log in for as many tests as possible - and my life just doesn't allow that, unfortunately. Now, I'm totally down for later stages of testing when it's more freeform and I can go try things out and report bugs at any time. But that's later :) In the meantime, I hope that the folks signed up for pre-alpha and alpha are able and willing to really make the time commitment to help the devs, because it truly is a critical stage of testing.
Hope it helps :)
Nephele said:So... I wanted to add something that may help you and others out Homercles.
I was one of the first 100 testers selected to help test SWG before launch. It's essentially similar to the way pre-alpha will work here. The way it worked is that the developers would occasionally open the servers for testing, and we'd all log in to help with whatever test they had in mind. Things like:
1) All of us crowding into a single building to see if we could make the client crash
2) All of us running as far as we can in the world while the devs watched to see how the server was scaling
3) All of us shooting blasters at an inanimate object (a cafe parasol) that had infinite hitpoints, in order to see how the server held up under combat conditions
4) All of us going back and forth between two shuttle stops to see if we could break something while repeatedly loading into the world.
... and so on.
Assuming that things work similarly here, Pre-Alpha (and possibly even Alpha) won't mean that you get access to the full world. It won't mean that you see any real content or get to experience much at all. It's very likely going to be focused testing to help the developers just make sure that they avoid things like the servers hanging up and crashing every 5 minutes. Will it be interesting? Absolutely. Maybe even fun. But it won't really be "early access to the game world".
For me, I'm content to just stick with Supporter status, not because I can't afford a higher pledge (although believe me the money's a factor), but because I feel like if I'm going to sign myself up for that I need to be available to log in for as many tests as possible - and my life just doesn't allow that, unfortunately. Now, I'm totally down for later stages of testing when it's more freeform and I can go try things out and report bugs at any time. But that's later :) In the meantime, I hope that the folks signed up for pre-alpha and alpha are able and willing to really make the time commitment to help the devs, because it truly is a critical stage of testing.
Hope it helps :)
Thanks for sharing this Nepheles, I think it gives a basic idea about how things might be in pre alpha..still see some folks thinking its early access..or something like that. Its testing. :) Yes we can probably have fun while running as per the directions of the Devs, and we'll probably all get to know each other much better. :) Looking forward to it. :)
Cana
Hunk said: Bunkus, the biggest thing about the pledge is helping VR get one more step closer to their goal...
Yep, I understand that there are multiple reasons to pledge to the VIP tier. Nephele, I found your post helpful. l may wait until Alpha, and dive in then.
bryanleo9 said:I believe i read somewhere on here the team wants 3 - 4 zones developed with adaquate content before rolling out pre alpha testing. That makes sense.
The team can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm pretty sure we're way past 4 zones. If I recall we were at 13?
Enitzu said:bryanleo9 said:I believe i read somewhere on here the team wants 3 - 4 zones developed with adaquate content before rolling out pre alpha testing. That makes sense.
The team can correct me if I'm wrong here, but I'm pretty sure we're way past 4 zones. If I recall we were at 13?
I was reading the Q&A (I believe that's where I found the info) and they stated that they want the entire continent of Kingsreach to be ready for testing by Alpha.
