Forums » Pantheon Classes

A Merchant Class

    • 56 posts
    March 21, 2017 1:56 PM PDT

    MERCHANT

     

    “Be careful of these quick talkers

    you don’t want to overspend; although they might have

    what you need so keep a sharp eye”

     

    Summary:

     

    This is NON-COMBAT class. So that would mean no adventure XP. The idea behind the merchant is to help make a stronger economy and social interaction. It also caters to those who wish to focus solely on crafting. I know this idea goes against the majority of people and I just wanted to share the idea because in theory it’s a good idea, but I understand why people don’t like the idea. So I will do my best to make it seem like a legitimate option.

     

    Adjustments to the game: Other classes would not be allowed to use a tradeskill. Although, fishing and harvesting could be allowed as a secondary tradeskill for other classes. This allows them to get materials to bring to Merchants to craft for them. Think of it as a quest. Your merchant friend has told you what you need and now you have to go gather all the items.

     

    Races: All

     

    Abilities: Damage resist, speed boost, invisibility. (One can only active at a time and they only last so long.) Maybe no abilities? You have to buy these as potions to use?

     

    The idea behind the abilities: It’s to help survive since you aren’t allowed to attack. You have to try and invade or not aggro at all.

     

    Passive ability: Stats adjust accordingly for the zone you are in. This eliminates the problem of being a squishy toon.

     

    Additional info:

     

    You will only be allowed to train one tradeskill. More than 1 not ruled out. Reason for the “Merchant” to be the only one’s allowed to craft things is so there isn’t saturation in the market. By doing this those who focus specifically on one character will reap the rewards of being a master at their trade. You can obviously make more than one toon, but this is assuming leveling up trades is going to be a endeavor and wouldn’t be beneficial to focus on more than one. This would also force other classes to seek out merchants and buy from them.

     

    Two things that would be beneficial for Merchants are mounts and merchant carts.

     

    Mounts: Move only a little bit faster than a toons normal speed. Horse’s, Ox’s, llama’s,  Mule's, for different levels.

     

    Merchant carts: Can attach to your mount. Size of cart depends on Mount. Sizes determine available slots. Can also have a leather carrier that is placed on your mount to carry items, again size determines item amount. This gives the option to be a traveling merchant to sell food or potions (for example) that would be useful to roam populated zones.



    Do you get where I’m coming from? There would be trade-offs obviously.




    This post was edited by Makinelly at March 25, 2017 12:16 PM PDT
    • 1582 posts
    March 21, 2017 3:04 PM PDT

    Makinelly said:

     There would be trade-offs obviously.


    Is this a pun? lol

    It's an interesting idea on its own, but I don't want to see it in Pantheon. At least not as an actual class. No combat, no XP, preventing other classes from using tradeskills -- it would have to be a completely different game. I don't see the point of a whole class JUST for tradeskills in a game dedicated to exploration, adventure, risk, etc. I like the idea of being a merchant, but that can't be ALL that you do. Kudos for thinking outside the box, but I see a lot of problems with this.

    • 893 posts
    March 21, 2017 3:23 PM PDT

    I'd actually love to see this, but I don't think we'll have it in PRF.  It just doesn't seem to fit.

    • 56 posts
    March 21, 2017 3:24 PM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    I don't see the point of a whole class JUST for tradeskills in a game dedicated to exploration, adventure, risk, etc. I like the idea of being a merchant, but that can't be ALL that you do. Kudos for thinking outside the box, but I see a lot of problems with this.

    Dedicating a class specifically to tradeskills would bring all three of those. You would still need to move about in the world. Exploring the world to meet NPC's to find more useful recipe's for your selected tradeskill, plus you still have to gather materials too (or you can specifically focus on just gathering to sell).  You can have quests setup for running supplies across the world to earn some money and faction points. The risk is you can still die, you will have to be extra vigilant and smart on how you move in zones since you can't fight, you could pay people to escort you if you are having troubles. You also aren't restricted to selling in a select location, plus the aspect of having a mount that can carry and pull goods to be a traveling merchant. 

     

    Just further explaining what seems to be a concern to you. I know it won't be implamented, but further detailing the idea is my goal. I know how making the Merchant class can improve social and economy aspects along with catering for those that want to focus on tradeskilling more than fighting. The class would literally be it's own game living within a world of fighting classes adventuring and needing supplies. 

    The idea also comes from Visionary Realms wanting to innovate the genre. I know it would be a big change, but it would be an innovation, imho.

     I would like it if you specified on all your problems so I can better understand and contruct the class.


    This post was edited by Makinelly at March 21, 2017 3:36 PM PDT
    • 1582 posts
    March 21, 2017 5:53 PM PDT

    Makinelly said:

    Bazgrim said:

    I don't see the point of a whole class JUST for tradeskills in a game dedicated to exploration, adventure, risk, etc. I like the idea of being a merchant, but that can't be ALL that you do. Kudos for thinking outside the box, but I see a lot of problems with this.

    Dedicating a class specifically to tradeskills would bring all three of those. You would still need to move about in the world. Exploring the world to meet NPC's to find more useful recipe's for your selected tradeskill, plus you still have to gather materials too (or you can specifically focus on just gathering to sell).  You can have quests setup for running supplies across the world to earn some money and faction points. The risk is you can still die, you will have to be extra vigilant and smart on how you move in zones since you can't fight, you could pay people to escort you if you are having troubles. You also aren't restricted to selling in a select location, plus the aspect of having a mount that can carry and pull goods to be a traveling merchant. 

     

    Just further explaining what seems to be a concern to you. I know it won't be implamented, but further detailing the idea is my goal. I know how making the Merchant class can improve social and economy aspects along with catering for those that want to focus on tradeskilling more than fighting. The class would literally be it's own game living within a world of fighting classes adventuring and needing supplies. 

    The idea also comes from Visionary Realms wanting to innovate the genre. I know it would be a big change, but it would be an innovation, imho.

     I would like it if you specified on all your problems so I can better understand and contruct the class.

    Okay, fair enough. Like Shuck said, it's not a terrible idea. I mostly just can't see it working in Pantheon. But that still makes sense.

    I guess my only other critiques would be that it seems like some mechanics were added just to make the class "work," not because it makes sense thematically. For example, what is the justification for a merchant being able to cast an invisibility spell on themselves? Or be able to resist damage or inherently run faster? And I don't mean just survivability. Like, is this some sort of special magical merchant?

    And why wouldn't any other class be allowed to do tradeskills? Are you just trying to create a monopoly? :P

    Since we're on the same page, just trying to help you flesh it out :)


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at March 21, 2017 5:56 PM PDT
    • 56 posts
    March 21, 2017 6:34 PM PDT

    "What is the justification for a merchant being able to cast an invisibility spell on themselves? Or be able to resist damage or inherently run faster?"

     

    I see your point and my idea doesn't make sense. We can revert to not having those abilities and just buy potions from alchemists. Stats adjusting according still stays for playability reasons.

     

    "Why wouldn't any other class be allowed to do tradeskills?"

     

    To avoid saturation of maxed out tradeskillers. The goal would be to force people to focus mainly on one thing, either tradeskilling or fighting. While of course still being able to play the other role if you choose to create a Merchant. This direction would create a significantly increased feeling of importance of oneself when they achieve "mastery" in their selected role. Again, assuming both adventure XP and Tradeskill XP is an endeavoring process.

     

    "Are you just trying to create a monopoly?"

    Trying to suggest a world where there are 2 distinct ways to play a game where they rely on each other. In other words, it's now crystal clear there are two ways to play the game and there is a much higher focus to make sure tradeskilling gets the love it needs to stay relavent.

     

    It also focused on people who want to specifically play for crafting and don't want to worry about leveling up adventure XP to be able to survive.

     

     

     

    I also have this thing where I like things to be in a highly focused direction with little to no clutter. So taking away tradeskilles from everyone and making it it's own class makes the other classes more focused and less cluttered. Obviously it has to make sense too otherwise I can deal with the clutter.  


    This post was edited by Makinelly at March 21, 2017 6:40 PM PDT
    • 1582 posts
    March 22, 2017 6:16 AM PDT

    Makinelly said:

    "What is the justification for a merchant being able to cast an invisibility spell on themselves? Or be able to resist damage or inherently run faster?"

     

    I see your point and my idea doesn't make sense. We can revert to not having those abilities and just buy potions from alchemists. Stats adjusting according still stays for playability reasons.

     

    "Why wouldn't any other class be allowed to do tradeskills?"

     

    To avoid saturation of maxed out tradeskillers. The goal would be to force people to focus mainly on one thing, either tradeskilling or fighting. While of course still being able to play the other role if you choose to create a Merchant. This direction would create a significantly increased feeling of importance of oneself when they achieve "mastery" in their selected role. Again, assuming both adventure XP and Tradeskill XP is an endeavoring process.

     

    "Are you just trying to create a monopoly?"

    Trying to suggest a world where there are 2 distinct ways to play a game where they rely on each other. In other words, it's now crystal clear there are two ways to play the game and there is a much higher focus to make sure tradeskilling gets the love it needs to stay relavent.

     

    It also focused on people who want to specifically play for crafting and don't want to worry about leveling up adventure XP to be able to survive.

     

     

     

    I also have this thing where I like things to be in a highly focused direction with little to no clutter. So taking away tradeskilles from everyone and making it it's own class makes the other classes more focused and less cluttered. Obviously it has to make sense too otherwise I can deal with the clutter.  

    Instead of automatically adjusting base stats, I think it would make much more sense to just leave it up to the armor that the merchant is wearing. You didn't specifically say whether or not they'd be allow to wear armor, but I think they should and that should be their primary source of survivability. Kinda like how a wartime journalist wears armor when going into combat zones to get the story even though they're not fighting - the merchant should be well-armored to go into combat zones and extract rare materials. And of course rely on buffs from party members. I think that makes a lot more sense than your stats (magically?) adjusting to whatever zone you're in. Keep it simple :)

    I totally understand wanting to focus on one thing. That's usually how I play. But centering the whole game around that is risky because most people want a more diverse experience. They don't want to be railroaded into just one specialization. I think it's still possible to have a class for people that prefer to play that way and have it be viable without putting such restrictions on everyone else that doesn't want to play that way.


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at March 22, 2017 6:18 AM PDT
    • 56 posts
    March 22, 2017 2:06 PM PDT

    I assumed it was assumed they can't wear armor because they are non-combatant. They would wear appearance clothes. THey wouldn't really group either unless they need help. they aren't useful in fighting situations.

     

    I understand your point about railroading people into one specialization. It's the main reason why it wouldn't work.

    • 1582 posts
    March 22, 2017 5:52 PM PDT

    Makinelly said:

    I assumed it was assumed they can't wear armor because they are non-combatant. They would wear appearance clothes. THey wouldn't really group either unless they need help. they aren't useful in fighting situations.

     

    I understand your point about railroading people into one specialization. It's the main reason why it wouldn't work.

    Ah gotcha yeah that's true. And a strictly anti-social class wouldn't fit in such a social game. But I think even if they do wear at least some armor, it would make for a pretty interesting concept in another game!

    • 56 posts
    March 23, 2017 2:53 PM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    Makinelly said:

    I assumed it was assumed they can't wear armor because they are non-combatant. They would wear appearance clothes. THey wouldn't really group either unless they need help. they aren't useful in fighting situations.

     

    I understand your point about railroading people into one specialization. It's the main reason why it wouldn't work.

    Ah gotcha yeah that's true. And a strictly anti-social class wouldn't fit in such a social game. But I think even if they do wear at least some armor, it would make for a pretty interesting concept in another game!

     

    They are definitely not an anti-social class. But I agree they wouldn't fit in the game. So I guess we are just beating a dead horse now. Thanks for entertaining the idea!

     


    This post was edited by Makinelly at March 23, 2017 2:54 PM PDT
    • 206 posts
    March 23, 2017 8:21 PM PDT

    Makinelly said:

    They are definitely not an anti-social class. But I agree they wouldn't fit in the game. So I guess we are just beating a dead horse now. Thanks for entertaining the idea!

    What is Still up in the air (for us players, Devs have likely decided but there not telling us yet) in the global scheme of things yet is bag space, bank space, and if we will end up all making ourselves banker charrictors. Those banker mules we all used to make could be the route VR is taking Pantheon and in thattcase then a Merchant class for our Banker charrictor could be interesting to say the least. 

    A non combatant banker charrictor that could somehow aquire personal teleports to banks in differant regons, that had a little easier time gaining faction,  all players could get one or two skills, Merchants could learn them all, there Cart would allow them more space and weight than other classes ....

    I wouldent call it a dead horse, sounds out of the box and intreaguing to me.

    I'm picturing Neelix or a Ferengi 


    This post was edited by Zorkon at March 23, 2017 8:28 PM PDT
    • 56 posts
    March 25, 2017 12:08 PM PDT

    Zorkon said:

    Makinelly said:

    They are definitely not an anti-social class. But I agree they wouldn't fit in the game. So I guess we are just beating a dead horse now. Thanks for entertaining the idea!

    What is Still up in the air (for us players, Devs have likely decided but there not telling us yet) in the global scheme of things yet is bag space, bank space, and if we will end up all making ourselves banker charrictors. Those banker mules we all used to make could be the route VR is taking Pantheon and in thattcase then a Merchant class for our Banker charrictor could be interesting to say the least. 

    A non combatant banker charrictor that could somehow aquire personal teleports to banks in differant regons, that had a little easier time gaining faction,  all players could get one or two skills, Merchants could learn them all, there Cart would allow them more space and weight than other classes ....

    I wouldent call it a dead horse, sounds out of the box and intreaguing to me.

    I'm picturing Neelix or a Ferengi 

     

    Thanks, I guess it just needed more input from others. I like your idea on having more space and weight options. I don't really agree on merchants being bankers. It adds too much complexity to a class that is about tradeskilling and or selling their goods.

     

    What is a Neelix and a Ferengi?

     

    I also think it is within the vision of Visionary Realms for their game. I knew going in it wouldn't be wanted so I didn't take the time to fledge out everything that would need to be. If I was given a go ahead to really work out the details because they wanted it in the game, I would definitely sit down and thoroughly write up a class design document for a Merchant. 

     

    Thanks for your feedback :)


    This post was edited by Makinelly at March 25, 2017 12:13 PM PDT
    • 206 posts
    March 25, 2017 3:50 PM PDT

    Neelix was a charrictor on the TV Series Star Trek Voyager. They took accepted him into there crew and he became there cook and consultant due to his knowledge of the Delta Quadrant where they were stranded... he help them communicate with DQ races due to his knack for diplomacy and gather supplies. He was non combatant however I think in a bar fight once he did knock a guy out with a Frying Pan.

    The Feringi were a Race on Star Trek The Next Generation that also mostly non combatant, there passion is Gold-Pressed Latinum and although some Feringi did have ships and although very bad at it did engage in a little fighting they were better suited and more commonly seen as bar and business owners such as the one named Quark.

     

    Although I haven't seen Developer intended non combatant charrictors in any games, I wouldent rule it out. A majority of players ONLY like to hack and slash but defiantly not all. And in the days of needing a "banker charrictor" even today in EQ my lvl 105 guild leader is one of many that has a Level 1 he just keeps arround for a merchant in the Bazaar... why not find a way for these tunes to be more suited to the job... it's worth discussion.

    • 206 posts
    March 25, 2017 4:04 PM PDT

    BTW

    When I said "banker charrictor" I wasn't intending as access to the actual bank. In early EQ bank space was pretty limited. We would make an alt that we never leveled up. It just sat at the bank loaded with bags and incumbered storing all our "stuff" as an extension of bank space. 


    This post was edited by Zorkon at March 25, 2017 4:04 PM PDT
    • 56 posts
    March 26, 2017 7:08 AM PDT

    Zorkon said:

    BTW

    When I said "banker charrictor" I wasn't intending as access to the actual bank. In early EQ bank space was pretty limited. We would make an alt that we never leveled up. It just sat at the bank loaded with bags and incumbered storing all our "stuff" as an extension of bank space. 

     

     

    OH RIGHT! Yeah I did that too. I filled my bank with the biggest slot bags you could find. It's been so long. lol

     

    I agree, find a way to use those banker characters and in exchange you are also giving those who would rather not hack and slash. 

     

    I didn't take into consideration that the extra slots VR is giving us is intended to be used for when you retire your toon and create a new one. Although they aren't going to do any microtransaction's in the game, idk how many slots they are giving us. I know as a knight pledge I'm getting an extra slot.

     

    P.S. It's spelt Character. :) 


    This post was edited by Makinelly at March 26, 2017 7:13 AM PDT
    • 25 posts
    April 6, 2017 2:01 AM PDT

    Everyone can be a merchant. There is no need to make it a completely different class. This would also go against the foundations that this game is based upon.

    • 7 posts
    April 6, 2017 7:28 AM PDT

    I see some use for a class like this. Some people love MMO's just for the crafting and trading. They are not interested in adventuring and/or fighting. 

    But in my opinion this merchant should be dependant of the adventurers, since this is a social game after all. If he needs resources he should trade for them or gather a group of adventurers to go out with him and protect him while he gathers.

    Long, long ago merchants wouldn't even consider going out the city gates without some protection. Caravans, hired warriors or even his village strongmen. Sure he could go for herbs or vegetables, rabbits etc outside the citywalls by himself. But no way he would consider coing out in the wilds without protection.

    And death would punish him as hard as his companions are punished. Gamewise speaking: if he dies he loses as much xp as the others. And since he cannot fight, but would cower away he wouldnt get any xp from any fight. but his crafting xp should equal adventuring xp.

    • 72 posts
    April 17, 2017 7:42 PM PDT

    I've only played one MMO where Merchant was a litteral class which branched out upon reaching a certain level.  Although, both subclasses which broke from the merchant classes were battle classes in their own right (Alchemist and Blacksmith).   These classes added some battle properties to a raid while also being the only people who could craft various items of value.  While I do not think VR would limit a single class the opportunity to be the soul preprietor of all tradeskills, it would be interesting to develop a battle class in of itself which is themed around the art of merchantry activity. 


    This post was edited by Farrinard at April 17, 2017 7:44 PM PDT