Shai said:There's even a good chance this whole thing would be more social, because people would have to talk to eachother to figure out who these abusive players are.
Complex? Certainly. Fun? Maybe. Intriguing? Definitely.
One thing I found out in my cooking course is that communication is key;If you have questions or need to know the names of your colleagues you have to ask them or you get nowhere.
A thing I like about this idea a lot is that it no longer allows poor social skills like automated systems like the group finders
Lets do away with all the automated systems and all abundancy that is harmful to player interaction.Agree with Shai there,It would actually be more social.
If the game can teach players some communicative skills,it would be a first MMOrpg that would actually teach people something they can use in real life.Take initiative to get somewhere.
in my view that would be beautiful.
Not revealing the name has to be paired with a game that isn't a solo cakewalk.
If this idea was a cake I'd lick it <3
But then I'd be concerned about the weight of abusive players.Not sure how they'd deal with that
Unless the game itself is somehow intelligent enough to identify certain abusive behavior and able to deal with it resolutely
Thinking about it,even that prepares you for real life as there is plenty abuse there.It hardens us :-D We could probably also start a topic about defining abuse
Fluffy said:One thing I found out in my cooking course is that communication is key;If you have questions or need to know the names of your colleagues you have to ask them or you get nowhere.
A thing I like about this idea a lot is that it no longer allows poor social skills like automated systems like the group finders
Lets do away with all the automated systems and all abundancy that is harmful to player interaction.Agree with Shai there,It would actually be more social.
If the game can teach players some communicative skills,it would be a first MMOrpg that would actually teach people something they can use in real life.Take initiative to get somewhere.
I disagree here, you need to be proactive about helping people with this kind of thing. A good number of people have anxiety issues and you can't leave them to the wolves. Luckily I think they are going the opposite direction from what is being suggested here, to quote the FAQ:
How are you going to encourage strangers to start talking to each other and play together in the game? Especially when it comes to people with already established connections within the game? How are you going to keep the new player experience good after the game has been out for six months?
There will be an entire system of features and mechanics to help people find new friends and others to group with -- there is no one special solution to such a challenge -- it must be a priority and addressed from many angles.
Some quick and easy examples, of course, would be to reward people who don't know each other to group together, to help them stay in contact, to allow them if they want to share personal information, to allow searching for new friends, assuming that person chooses to participate in matchmaking. The main point is that we'll be doing all sorts of things to proactively bring people together and KEEP them together.
This is the opposite of something like a dungeon finder that randomly brings in people you need to do an instance, you then do the instance likely not even speaking a word, and then once the instance is over, the group disperses. This is what damages communities and true social interaction.
You have handholding and automated systems like groupfinders
And systems that could give direction as proposed in the FAQ you link here.
There are several ways you could interprete proactive.
You could say groupfinder works proactive because it takes aways the need for social skills,controlling the situation for players by forming the group for them,sparing them any social interaction that has to take place.That is why I question the need for such proactive systems
On a positive note you could say players need to be more proactive:
They need to take initiative and make contact with other players,not wait till they get eaten by wolfs because they waited to see what would happen.
It is not clear in which way you mean proactive and why you disagree while I agree mostly with the quoted FAQ
When they say that they'll do all sorts of things to proactively bring people together and KEEP them together,
I have no doubt they realize they cant force friendship,just like love kissies can't be forced.
At least I hope they mean it in a sense of giving direction and the tools for players to find friends,not force it with all kinds of systems.
When systems takes over we often end up with things like group finder that damages communities and true social interaction
I do not disagree with that.
But true social interaction needs the space and time to happen.Really like the downtimes in combat and such.
I'm not sure if people have anxiety issues in games
But if they have anxiety issues and if they are tense
Why?Why can't they just enjoy the game?
Is there some kind of pressure?Is it too much about performance and too little smile, breathe, and go slowly?
Little room for error?why so tense?a game is supposed to be fun.
Too afraid of rejection?That is just part of life.
The need for people to open up to get somewhere is a good thing.Taking initiative in life,working those social skills a bit.
Which does not mean a matchmaking system is out of the question,it could offer some direction to meet new people.
I have nothing against that.
Only against automated systems and systems that try to force people to play together by offering some reward
True social interaction happens in a natural way only.
And this idea invites players to control the situation
-you could either see the name floating around of everybody,ignoring most of the other players
-Or you could talk to a stranger to get to know more about them,because they have drawn your attention.
This curiousity causes you to respond more often than waiting for response I think
Something that appears trivial like this could infact have a huge impact on social interaction I believe
So this idea is actually very proactive?
Fluffy said:You have handholding and automated systems like groupfinders
And systems that could give direction as proposed in the FAQ you link here.There are several ways you could interprete proactive.
You could say groupfinder works proactive because it takes aways the need for social skills,controlling the situation for players by forming the group for them,sparing them any social interaction that has to take place.That is why I question the need for such proactive systems
On a positive note you could say players need to be more proactive:
They need to take initiative and make contact with other players,not wait till they get eaten by wolfs because they waited to see what would happen.
It is not clear in which way you mean proactive and why you disagree while I agree mostly with the quoted FAQ
When they say that they'll do all sorts of things to proactively bring people together and KEEP them together,
I have no doubt they realize they cant force friendship,just like love kissies can't be forced.
At least I hope they mean it in a sense of giving direction and the tools for players to find friends,not force it with all kinds of systems.
When systems takes over we often end up with things like group finder that damages communities and true social interaction
I do not disagree with that.
But true social interaction needs the space and time to happen.Really like the downtimes in combat and such.I'm not sure if people have anxiety issues in games
But if they have anxiety issues and if they are tense
Why?Why can't they just enjoy the game?
Is there some kind of pressure?Is it too much about performance and too little smile, breathe, and go slowly?
Little room for error?why so tense?a game is supposed to be fun.
Too afraid of rejection?That is just part of life.
The need for people to open up to get somewhere is a good thing.Taking initiative in life,working those social skills a bit.
Which does not mean a matchmaking system is out of the question,it could offer some direction to meet new people.
I have nothing against that.
Only against automated systems and systems that try to force people to play together by offering some reward
True social interaction happens in a natural way only.
And this idea invites players to control the situation
-you could either see the name floating around of everybody,ignoring most of the other players
-Or you could talk to a stranger to get to know more about them,because they have drawn your attention.
This curiousity causes you to respond more often than waiting for response I think
Something that appears trivial like this could infact have a huge impact on social interaction I believeSo this idea is actually very proactive?
To me being proactive about this situation DOES in fact imply groupfinders. Not in the automated sense but more of a button you click to bring up a LFG menu that players can list themselves as looking or groups can list with open slots, or communicate that "a slot is opening in say 20 minutes for a healer, PST." It's about making it far easier for people to pick up the game and get the most out of their hour+ after work for those with limited time. How could such a system, or anything remotely similar work if you don't know the names of anyone else? How do the chat channels work? How can you report gold sellers or abusive players? Even without a LFG/groupfinder function, how could you /who in a zone to find out who you might possibly be able to group with? Do you just message "Stranger - level 20 cleric" and agree to meet up somewhere? What if you are trying to chat to multiple strangers? A server becomes a much more lonely world when everyone is a mystery and then a tedious chore if you want to run down everyone to hail them and hope they exchange a hail back. This system could be fine for an RP server but I only see it as a community hinderance for any kind of normal server. So I argue that such a system only makes the game more social to some but holds back the many.
As for addressing anxiety, it isn't that cut and dry. That's like telling a depressed person to "cheer up." Why can't they just enjoy the game? It isn't to say they aren't enjoying the game, but that making it harder for them to talk to people by requiring additional layers is less than ideal. I'm sure we have all grouped with plenty of people who aren't too social in groups but play well, and I would bet a decent number of those people have anxiety. Don't want to say the wrong thing, don't want to sound dumb, etc. These are psychological issues that can't just be addressed by forcing them into certain scenarios. I have plenty of friends who won't talk on mics if there are any strangers present and it is more or less the same ballpark. They are fine with the bare essentials of socialization with strangers but otherwise just want to get lost in the game, making a few select friends along the way. And I say this as someone who deals with depression and anxiety personally.
I don't know if I got lost somewhere or if that all makes sense. Basically I think we should let social people be social and not force those that are less than to really have to go out of their way to be so.
Nope doesn't sound like it would promote community much. Good community is good for the game, prolongs its life. This system sounds a bit convoluted, specially for new players who want to get into the game...just sounds like something extra tacked on to frustrate newcomers. :)
I am reposting my reply as it may have been missed at the bottom of the first page, but it is important to read.
"This would be more complicated than people think for us to implement and it kind of goes against our view, there will be toggles to turn overhead names off, we already have a slider in-game that adjusts the distance at which you can see name bars, or remove them completely, plus we have the F9 hide UI command, so if that is how you like to play, you will be able to RP that on any server but the names will be on by default for everyone else. :)"
Fluffy said:At least I hope they mean it in a sense of giving direction and the tools for players to find friends,not force it with all kinds of systems.
Going by Brad's history, what they mean is that the game itself, will make it so that being a loner will bring more difficulties and struggles than will being willing to make friends and group up. It also means that it will assist people who are less socially adept to still find ways to break that initial barrier and make contact.
I appreciate that you would like to see the game force people into 'gaining social skills', but unfortunately, when you don't have social skills, you need guidance. They hope to funnel people into groups in ways that feel natural, the way that EQ1 did. In EQ, you could play a character role that was sought-after. That way, people came to YOU, you didn't have to face your fear of reaching out to others. Through this, I learned the social skill of approaching people--not by doing it, but recieving it.
There are many ways in which a game can compesate for the naturally introverted people who will most likely be drawn to gaming as a whole. Unfortunately, too many games have catered to the idea that introverts actually dislike people, but should be made to interact with them. Introverts as a general rule like people, they just don't handle crowds well. They also often struggle to make friends because they don't HAVE social skills.
The problem with social skills in REAL social situations is that you have to have them to learn them. The proposed concept in the OP requires that you either HAVE social skills already, or that you learn social skills that won't actually work in the real world. Hailing someone to learn their name doesn't translate well into real life. When you meet someone in real life, there's a whole awkward dance of asking their name, asking about their life, etc. etc. that doesn't translate into a game well, either.
Socializing in games must be considered its own beast. It must be dealt with according to the typical people who will inhabit it, which in most cases will be introverts--and the extroverts don't need help, anyway. :p
This is another thing that can be boiled down to: Practicality vs. Realism
Personally, I basically see this being too much of an annoyance and not worth the realism. So in this case, I vote for practicality and simplicity.
Alexander said: Regardless, it's very creative thinking and well-explained. I enjoy reading your posts, Homer!
Oh yeah it's definitely not a bad idea. I just think it's one of those things that's better in theory than in practice.
Bazgrim said:Alexander said: Regardless, it's very creative thinking and well-explained. I enjoy reading your posts, Homer!Oh yeah it's definitely not a bad idea. I just think it's one of those things that's better in theory than in practice.
Yar - I can imagine that too. And my post was not directed toward you in particular, Mazter Baz =)
Amris said:I appreciate that you would like to see the game force people into 'gaining social skills', but unfortunately, when you don't have social skills, you need guidance.
Fluffy said:The need for people to open up to get somewhere is a good thing.Taking initiative in life,working those social skills a bit.
Which does not mean a matchmaking system is out of the question,it could offer some direction to meet new people.
I have nothing against that.
Only against automated systems and systems that try to force people to play together by offering some reward
True social interaction happens in a natural way only.At least I hope they mean in a sense of giving direction and the tools for players to find friends,not force it with all kinds of systems.
When systems takes over we often end up with things like group finder that damages communities and true social interaction
Direction/guidance are synonyms.
What truly damages the community as a whole is when systems take over for players by forming groups for them
Sparing them the social interaction required to get to know people.That is how games have been forcing us together.The result is that we remain strangers,even with names
So you do instances and likely never speak a word,then once the instance is over -> group disperses.
Proactive systems like the group finder are bad.I do not disagree with the FAQ that it damages communities and social interaction.
CanadinaXegony said:Short form of this and an old saying "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink". I like what the Devs have planned. Can't be trying to force people to do things, that doesn't work.
Also how many names do you remember of the people you've ever done a random dugeon with? Except from the naughty ones that have made you giggle <333
Iksar said:To me being proactive about this situation DOES in fact imply groupfinders.
Not in the automated sense but more of a button you click to bring up a LFG menu that players can list themselves as looking or groups can list with open slots,
or communicate that "a slot is opening in say 20 minutes for a healer, PST."
It's about making it far easier for people to pick up the game and get the most out of their hour+ after work for those with limited time.
If you don't mean it in an automated sense,it might be better to call it matchmaker or questboard/datingboard to avoid confusion.Everyone would talk about the groupfinder they have come to know.
So for afer work you'd want some kind of chat roulette system to group up?After the group is over the question would pop to ask if you would like to play together in the future or not :-D
Or do you have a system in mind more like a questboard where players can enlist themselves,doing so would automatically attach their profile and name.
Iksar said:Do you just message "Stranger - level 20 cleric" and agree to meet up somewhere?
Without names,places like an inn or aventurers guild would become worth a visit,they'd have real purpose.
As it is now,yea sometimes they provide some rested experience,yea they let you skip the 30 seconds to log off
But they are not a place where you meet up or connect with other players because any place will do in MMOrpgs
Such system as this can thus add extra purpose to places.Iksar said: How could such a system, or anything remotely similar work if you don't know the names of anyone else? How do the chat channels work?Personally have mixed feelings about global chat,while it is convenient to talk to everyone,it also damages social interaction in your current local environment and situation I think.
It makes interaction banal
often I wonder where I ended up with all the racial slurs,dirtyness,spoilers,goldselling messages
Wouldn't miss it.
But chat channels are a different topic.Iksar said:How can you report gold sellers or abusive players?The lack of a global chat might make their lives much harder.Would it be possible for the game to detect if goldsell messages?
If so the game could automatically ban them
Or players can still report other players whether they know their name or not.The report system would report that player with the name even if other players do not know it.
Global chat gives them a lot of power.Sending whispers would only be possible between people you know.
So instead of having global chat we could have a contact list that grows as we travel and connect to the players we meet
Our growing list the evidence of the journey we made and the people we met.
Thats how it would have lasting meaning.
Also the journey we make in real life,all that we do and all the people we meet.
In our lifetime we see one page of the book which we read,which requires time.
Those that came before and will come after us will be on a diffent page of the book.As for abusive players,they'd only fool themselves if they are like a thirsty horse under the hot desert sun and they ruin their chances to get to water in time.In a difficult environment there is nothing to win if they are horrible to others
Iksar said:What if you are trying to chat to multiple strangers?You could only talk to multiple strangers if you meet a group of multiple strangers.
Meeting mulitple stranger would actually be experienced as a great chance to connect to new people.
It would be special without global chat.In danger ,the circumstances would invite you to connect too.
Think about the horse saying CanadinaXegony mentioned and adding that hot desert sun to make the horse thirsty,always hoping that what they meet will lead them to waterI do not think it would be a lonely world,but world where you are looking forward to meet new people.A world with meaningful interaction.
This post was edited by Fluffy at February 12, 2017 2:16 AM PST
@Fluffy "
Yes,so in this context what would you do to make the horse thirsty ingame? Do you force it to drink water like the groupfinder does?
Or do you make the horse thirsty by increasing the temperature under a hot desert sun?The horse would be so thankful to anyone leading it to water.
Meaningful cooperation in a difficult game environment is what makes community stronger.Only the situations you meet ingame can make the horse happy to meet others.
A system that tosses together 2 thirsty horses,they are not happy to meet each other,they only have water on their mind and nothing else.
Just like gamers have reward on their mind and not who they do instances with ;instance over-> group disperses.
There are exceptions like me who will stick around in the hope someone stays to chat
But 90 procent of the time the group has dispersed in less than 10 seconds :-((
Also how many names do you remember of the people you've ever done a random dugeon with? Except from the naughty ones that have made you giggle <333 - end quote
First off I don't wish to be hog-tied into a system where I can't find out the name of the person who just trained me. That horse or mule still won't drink no matter how many hours you stand there and coax it...UNLESS it wants to of its own volition. Meaningful cooperation is just that "cooperation" comes from the people who WANT to participate and think its a good idea. If they don't they won't. You can't force someone to be an extrovert nor an introvert, you can make it a situation where its enticing and fun to want to introduce yourself. ( Why don't we allow this to happen naturally..as it has since the 1990s online.) Some won't. Some will take advantage of the system ...the other part that I note here, is that when the Community Manager Kilsin tells us...that this would be more complicated than everyone realizes...then perhaps we should have a listen...eh what?
" Naughty" ones don't tend to make me giggle..they go on my ignore. Period. As for random dungeons done in 30 seconds ...race race no talk ...ala Rift. I detest them. Guildies and friends will see me in their groups...no random cross server pugs, where all are anonymous, don't speak, aren't accountable for their actions...and are never seen again. As someone mentioned earlier...this might be a thing for a roleplay ruleset server, have at it if the Devs want to spend their time doing this....remembering that it would have to be a popular idea to keep that server running and worthwhile. You won't see me there. :D
Fluffy said:Amris said:I appreciate that you would like to see the game force people into 'gaining social skills', but unfortunately, when you don't have social skills, you need guidance.
The need for people to open up to get somewhere is a good thing.Taking initiative in life,working those social skills a bit.
Which does not mean a matchmaking system is out of the question,it could offer some direction to meet new people.
I have nothing against that.
Only against automated systems and systems that try to force people to play together by offering some reward
True social interaction happens in a natural way only.At least I hope they mean in a sense of giving direction and the tools for players to find friends,not force it with all kinds of systems.
When systems takes over we often end up with things like group finder that damages communities and true social interaction
I don't believe that we're talking oranges and oranges here.
I don't, and the Devs don't, want "group finder" type things where you join up with a group through a fully automated system that then drops everyone into an instanced dungeon where you never see another human being. Follow that up with said dungeon being perfectly scripted and standardized so that everyone can choose which "well known" dungeon they enter into with this random bunch of complete strangers and then disband instantly at the death of the scripted 'ending' of the dungeon.
I believe we can both agree that this is "big no thanks", yes?
So that is oranges and oranges.
Where I think we start to have our challenge in communication is at what point does one of those oranges become an apple, so to speak.
In old EQ, you were encouraged to group up, not by group finders, but by the fact that the premier way to progress was grouping. People in the same locale as you were in were talking and carrying on and you could say you were X level Y class LFG (looking for a group). Then people could send you a tell/whisper and say, "We need you over at Z camp!"
At this point, you'd get there, join up, and listen to people chatting in the group. Eventually, if you were socially stunted, you would end up chiming in, or if you were less socially stunted, you'd chime in right away. This group would then last for HOURS, instead of going through a short, scripted, very specific "ending point" whereup everyone just bails.
That is radically different from what is being suggested in the OP. In the OP, everyone is required, forced, to be completely unknown to everyone from the very beginning. You cannot walk up to someone who's camping something and say, "Do you know how long you'll be here?" and get a nasty response and let your guild know that "this person is nasty and rude". You can only say, "Yet another stranger told me to go screw myself."
That does not improve the server, because "some stranger" doesn't give said stranger a reputation for being a jerk. In order for that person to get a bad reputation, everyone he ever treats badly has to jump through 5000 hoops before they can tell people, "this person behaves badly."
The proposal in the OP actually encourages bad behavior because people don't want to jump through 5000 hoops. Only the very, very vengeful people will bother, so reputation won't follow anyone except the people who anger the most determined and infuriated players.
At the point where "everyone is a stranger until you go through enough hoops" is where you and I start talking apples and oranges instead of oranges and oranges.
The devs want to use grouping "systems" that encourage that "play together for hours" method instead of the, "finish a scripted, short dungeon and then bail" system. They want to encourage actually coming into a group and wanting to come back to the SAME group after you shut down for a half hour for dinnertime or putting kids to bed.
The devs are very aware of the fact that many of their desired playerbase "have lives" and they want to encourage the community part of MMO gaming while not creating havoc with those "lives".
While the whole "everyone's a stranger until you go through enough hoops to be able to say, "Jokerfacehaha02 trained me repeatedly in Z dungeon" might be great in a hardcore game where everyone has TIME to waste on discovering the jerk's name, that's not what they're going for here. They're going for a game where there's time to accomplish things, but there's also a great desire to group with people who have taken their time to learn their classes ahead of random strangers in a 20 minute scripted instance.
So we're on the same page with regards to not having people plopped in each other's laps for limited duration scripted repeat dungeons.
We're diverging on just how hard it should be to learn a person's name and to interact with them and to create reputations/ learn reputations. No one should feel like they are protected from any form of reputation because, "nobody knows my name, anyway." I'm sorry, but such a system protects no one but griefers. It has no benefit with regards to socializing. People will become extremely insular because they don't want to have to jump through a million hoops to find out a person's name. Reputation means nothing when someone sees you coming and has no idea that you're that Jokerfacehaha that his or her guildie warned about.
You want to force people to interact by using a system that actually will only force people to form cliques and not take risks of allowing other people in or approaching people for fear that the randomstranger1-million-and-2 will train you instead of giving you the time of day. No one's going to learn social skills from that, unless avoiding others like the plague is a "skill".
CanadinaXegony said:First off I don't wish to be hog-tied into a system where I can't find out the name of the person who just trained me.
I was thinking
who would want to be trained by someone they don't know?And if names are revealed immediately like usual in MMOrpgs,it is possible to be trained by a complete stranger with a name.Yea they have a name but in my view a random player with a name is still a stranger if you have never interacted.If there is a prerequisition for the trainers to train other players ,The investment from the trainer to learn more about the player ,like name ,makes it more personal and special. It shows they care <333
CanadinaXegony said:That horse or mule still won't drink no matter how many hours you stand there and coax it...UNLESS it wants to of its own volition. Meaningful cooperation is just that "cooperation" comes from the people who WANT to participate and think its a good idea. If they don't they won't. You can't force someone to be an extrovert nor an introvert, you can make it a situation where its enticing and fun to want to introduce yourself. ( Why don't we allow this to happen naturally..as it has since the 1990s online.) Some won't. Some will take advantage of the system ...the other part that I note here, is that when the Community Manager Kilsin tells us...that this would be more complicated than everyone realizes...then perhaps we should have a listen...eh what?
" Naughty" ones don't tend to make me giggle..they go on my ignore. Period. As for random dungeons done in 30 seconds ...race race no talk ...ala Rift. I detest them. Guildies and friends will see me in their groups...no random cross server pugs, where all are anonymous, don't speak, aren't accountable for their actions
If the game rules dehydrate the horse it will drink water ,it will be thankful to whoever provides it with water.So if the game rules are right people want to participate,because survival is a good idea. It has litlle to do with extrovert and introverts.Its not forcing someone to be extrovert or introvert.Basic needs demand it for survival.The game and game rules create the situations where it is enticing and fun to want to introduce yourself too.The game provides the players with the moments where it is fun to introduce yourself. The dungeons done in 30 seconds with race race and no talk do not provide players with these moments to introduce.Names have no weight anymore because players don't have to introduce themselves for you to know their names.You see in the 30 sec race no talk dungeons players are still anonymous,even with a name.5mins after the PUG it is likely you can't even remember who you ran a PUG with.Without the game environment that brings together players in a memorable way ,nothing sticks.Names or no names.If you need help from other players to get somewhere,that is where meaningful cooperation happens.I say meaninful because it builds relations.
Amris said:everyone is required, forced, to be completely unknown to everyone from the very beginning. You cannot walk up to someone who's camping something and say, "Do you know how long you'll be here?" and get a nasty response and let your guild know that "this person is nasty and rude". You can only say, "Yet another stranger told me to go screw myself."
They could just introduce diminishing returns farming the same spots over and over,problem solved :-D Or they could make it possible to report whoever you target ,knowing the name or not.
I don't know if the game could be able to detect bad behavior,like if you would steal from other players you'd be known as thief.If you kill a friendly npc Assassin .That way they can still get a bad reputation even without their names revealed.
Amris said:You want to force people to interact by using a system that actually will only force people to form cliques and not take risks of allowing other people in or approaching people for fear that the randomstranger1-million-and-2 will train you instead of giving you the time of day. No one's going to learn social skills from that, unless avoiding others like the plague is a "skill".
I want to force nothing,I just want to get in the mood <3 So the horse does not want to drink?increase the temperature(game rules) so the horse becomes dehydrated and begging for water. It is like the white stuff they release in the air at danceparties to make you thirsty so you will buy more drinks.Once thirsty you can not avoid the thristy lickies. Avoiding others is still an option.Only thing is that you'll likely end up collapsing in the desert from dehydration.while the other thirsty horses that do interact with other horses have a chance of meeting a horse that can lead them to water. Nothing is forced,the choice is still yours.
Fluffy said:CanadinaXegony said:First off I don't wish to be hog-tied into a system where I can't find out the name of the person who just trained me.I was thinking
who would want to be trained by someone they don't know?And if names are revealed immediately like usual in MMOrpgs,it is possible to be trained by a complete stranger with a name.Yea they have a name but in my view a random player with a name is still a stranger if you have never interacted.If there is a prerequisition for the trainers to train other players ,The investment from the trainer to learn more about the player ,like name ,makes it more personal and special. It shows they care <333
CanadinaXegony said:That horse or mule still won't drink no matter how many hours you stand there and coax it...UNLESS it wants to of its own volition. Meaningful cooperation is just that "cooperation" comes from the people who WANT to participate and think its a good idea. If they don't they won't. You can't force someone to be an extrovert nor an introvert, you can make it a situation where its enticing and fun to want to introduce yourself. ( Why don't we allow this to happen naturally..as it has since the 1990s online.) Some won't. Some will take advantage of the system ...the other part that I note here, is that when the Community Manager Kilsin tells us...that this would be more complicated than everyone realizes...then perhaps we should have a listen...eh what?
" Naughty" ones don't tend to make me giggle..they go on my ignore. Period. As for random dungeons done in 30 seconds ...race race no talk ...ala Rift. I detest them. Guildies and friends will see me in their groups...no random cross server pugs, where all are anonymous, don't speak, aren't accountable for their actions
If the game rules dehydrate the horse it will drink water ,it will be thankful to whoever provides it with water.So if the game rules are right people want to participate,because survival is a good idea. It has litlle to do with extrovert and introverts.Its not forcing someone to be extrovert or introvert.Basic needs demand it for survival.The game and game rules create the situations where it is enticing and fun to want to introduce yourself too.The game provides the players with the moments where it is fun to introduce yourself. The dungeons done in 30 seconds with race race and no talk do not provide players with these moments to introduce.Names have no weight anymore because players don't have to introduce themselves for you to know their names.You see in the 30 sec race no talk dungeons players are still anonymous,even with a name.5mins after the PUG it is likely you can't even remember who you ran a PUG with.Without the game environment that brings together players in a memorable way ,nothing sticks.Names or no names.If you need help from other players to get somewhere,that is where meaningful cooperation happens.I say meaninful because it builds relations.
Amris said:everyone is required, forced, to be completely unknown to everyone from the very beginning. You cannot walk up to someone who's camping something and say, "Do you know how long you'll be here?" and get a nasty response and let your guild know that "this person is nasty and rude". You can only say, "Yet another stranger told me to go screw myself."
They could just introduce diminishing returns farming the same spots over and over,problem solved :-D Or they could make it possible to report whoever you target ,knowing the name or not.
I don't know if the game could be able to detect bad behavior,like if you would steal from other players you'd be known as thief.If you kill a friendly npc Assassin .That way they can still get a bad reputation even without their names revealed.
Amris said:You want to force people to interact by using a system that actually will only force people to form cliques and not take risks of allowing other people in or approaching people for fear that the randomstranger1-million-and-2 will train you instead of giving you the time of day. No one's going to learn social skills from that, unless avoiding others like the plague is a "skill".
I want to force nothing,I just want to get in the mood <3 So the horse does not want to drink?increase the temperature(game rules) so the horse becomes dehydrated and begging for water. It is like the white stuff they release in the air at danceparties to make you thirsty so you will buy more drinks.Once thirsty you can not avoid the thristy lickies. Avoiding others is still an option.Only thing is that you'll likely end up collapsing in the desert from dehydration.while the other thirsty horses that do interact with other horses have a chance of meeting a horse that can lead them to water. Nothing is forced,the choice is still yours.
Gaming definition of training in the way I was using it. He trained me = meaning he ran me over with this long TRAIN of aggressive mobs purposely to either grief me or kill my character. So in order to make that horse drink you would torture it? Really? What on earth is a "thristy lickies" You are still talking about FORCING a situation to reflect your own desires, not the desires of the people around you. A shy or introverted person is not going to appreciate being forced to do something they aren't ready or don't want to do. Instead you need to make the situation easier to participate in. You make it fun, inclusive. Another old saying: You get more flies with honey than vinegar.
Gaming communities have existed since the early 1990s. If they are good communities they help their newbies, show them the ropes, and include them in the fun. And eventually invite them to their guilds. Making all names anonymous...makes it easier for the "naughty" ones as you put it ie: the griefers, the trolls, and kill thieves..not the people who want to participate in community activities with others. Anonymity makes it easy to grief and troll others.
AnyWAY...this conversation is turning silly in the extreme. May I point to our Community Manager and what he had to say, its important to take note. :) "I am reposting my reply as it may have been missed at the bottom of the first page, but it is important to read.
"This would be more complicated than people think for us to implement and it kind of goes against our view, there will be toggles to turn overhead names off, we already have a slider in-game that adjusts the distance at which you can see name bars, or remove them completely, plus we have the F9 hide UI command, so if that is how you like to play, you will be able to RP that on any server but the names will be on by default for everyone else. :)" -end quote
Thanks for your input here Kilsin appreciate it :) I'm out of here lol.
Never heared about training,is it something from the 90's? I remember one Asian mmo where one could pull a room but with the dumb AI the mobs simply reset after
following the one who wants to train,ignoring any players in between.Unless they stand in range of the point where the mob has reset.
Is training as you mean it possible?depends on several things,AI being one of them.
The game would create the climate to make the horse thirsty. thirsty lickies yes <3
It is not forcing a situation for own desires at all
it is about creating the right game climate with basic needs in mind that creates the opportunities to have meaningful encounters on your journey.
Leading a horse to water might not make it drink water,so have the game increase the temperature.
You do get more flies with honey than vinegar.Games have used systems that use a lot of vinegar
That is why games are in need of memorable social meetings that stick like honey
Anonimity does not make it easier to grief and troll if player can report a player with or without a named target .
No names induce a healthy curiosity for other players.But it will not have effect if one side can toggle overhead names off.
the curiosity is no longer there for one side.Its like in a discussion about the taste of herring.
As soon as one group tastes the herring they'll have their own thought and the curiosity is gone.
The other group that did not get a taste of herring will still wonder
It is like when you work together with your partner;at the end of day there is nothing to be curious about,nor talk about.
Because you all saw it happen.
hmm herring
Im happy either way
and didn't miss Kilsin his post.
Just know that it lessens the healthy curiousity and reasons to connect with other players if names float around everywhere.
No,it creates the environments where players are encouraged to interact with one another.
That is typical about MMOrpgs,a large number of players able to interact.That is how MMOrpgs are distinguished from single player games.
the player will always be encouraged to push themselves out the door and to embrace exploration, adventure, danger and the community of players alongside them-it tells us in the about section.
If you think the game providing the players with the motives to interact is forced,you would likely think what is written in the about Pantheon section is forced too.
A lot of MMOrpgs are in my view single player abominations not knowing what they want to be and who to target
,we all play them like single player games, questing is bland and boring without any challenge,there are no motives for players to play together
It is like the horse you place in front of water without the thirst inducing push to embrace the adventure.So the game needs to provide the motives to interact too
Some solo play is welcometo give the opportunity to explore Terminus.
But solo play can't become the main focus of the game.It is not right to reach maximum level without the need to interact once on the journey.
The no name idea will help push players out the door to embrace the unknown adventure. It would only add to that compelling ,social and group oriented game they want to aim for.
It stimulates the healthy curiousity about who you encounter on your journey.
I do not deny there would be some complications.
In my view overcoming them would be worth it.
The wonder of the adventure and the unknown awaits <3
All that would happen is everyone would log in and spam /hail everywhere they ran to fill up their name log. Some more resourceful folks would make a macro to do it for them.
Path of least resistance will almost always be followed.
Fulton said:
All that would happen is everyone would log in and spam /hail everywhere they ran to fill up their name log. Some more resourceful folks would make a macro to do it for them.
Path of least resistance will almost always be followed.
This. Along with the fact that grouping being either largely required or just vastly more efficient is plenty enough to bring people together; not anonymity and running up to players trying to get their name, obfuscating chat and /who which would make grouping/trading even harder.
But at this point we will just have to agree to disagree.