Feyshtey said:The problem that Kilsin is trying to point out in this particular case (I think) is that fine-tuning is a progression. And the means by which any final idea is crafted is relevent to anyone that enters the conversation. Lacking the foundation from which the conversation began because its been deleted puts any new entry into the conversation at a disadvantage, and is ripe for rehashing things that were already "resolved". Deleting your posts makes it appear that those who responded to them are talking about things that are irrelevent, obtuse, off-topic or quite possibly dillusional. If people dont know why they responded in the way they did, everything they say looks to be entirely out of context.
Very valid point, and there are a couple examples of that in this thread. This has been a learning experience for me and I will keep that perspective in mind in an effort to prevent that type of occurence from happening again. At the end of the day, I'm just trying to contribute some ideas the best I can. We're all here for the same reason ... we believe in the vision for this game. I think it's a pretty amazing feat for VR to have such an active playerbase for a game that's been under development for 3 years. Rather than spending my time playing another game, I get more satisfaction from imagining how things could be in Pantheon. VR has done a great job with luring people to their vision, and in my case, hooking me. Having an engaged playerbase like this is pretty remarkable, and I think it's a great sign for the future of the game.
oneADseven said:Kilsin said:oneADseven said:Kilsin said:Please do not post to say that you have edited man, they are deemed spam/double posts and have to be moderated, just update the OP and people can see the update date/time and know that you have added something new. ;)
I apologize, but since starting the thread, some new ideas have blossomed and replaced some of the former. As it were, people would see certain information in one post, only to read further into the thread and see another statement that might contradict or repeat a slightly different version of something they have already read. To clarify, none of the posts that I edited to read as "Edited" were a double post or spam. They were all responses to player questions or a new piece of information. I've been adding to the idea as the thread progressed and felt it would be easier for people to read/understand the idea if everything was condensed into a single unified post. Prior to the edits it may have seemed a bit discombobulated. Can you confirm if the new forum platform will allow us to delete posts? I would gladly have gone in and taken care of legwork myself.
It really doesn't matter man, I can even see that you edited this reply:
"This post was edited by oneADseven at February 4, 2017 12:59 PM AEDT"
So everyone can see it and know that you updated the OP, so please use that method instead of double posting ;)
No, deleting post will only ever be in the control of Admins like myself and it is up to VR Staff to set the rules and moderate to enforce them.
I'm sorry, I should have clarified my question a little better. I didn't mean to ask if people would have access to delete posts in general and partake in moderation, I meant to ask if we could delete our own posts. On a post like this for example, where I am actively seeking input from other players to help fine tune the idea, it would be helpful if I were able to delete my own posts. The option to do so would make it easier for the thread to a tell a story without being discombobulated with different posts that might contradict my intention of adapting the story based on feedback from other players. The way it's set up right now prevents me from being able to do that. It's not a huge deal to me either way, but I understand that you're only one guy and cleaning up an entire forum could be frustrating. Allowing players to delete their own posts would help alleviate some of that burden for you. I don't recall ever purposely double posting, but there was one instance where I made a post and it instantly generated 2 identical posts at the exact same time. That would have been a perfect opportunity for me to be able to delete the accidental double post rather than editing the duplicate to reflect that it was an accidental double post and you needing to come in and remove it. Just an idea.
That is what I was referring to my friend, it opens the door for people to do all kinds of things and then remove the evidence before a VR staff member can see it, so it is not something we will allow, you will rarely find a company that does allow people to delete their own posts in big communities like this.
On a different and more general note (but still relevant)
Just keep in mind these are development forums and the posts here need to be relative, on topic and insightful, excessive posts, arguments, rumours, opinions without evidence/experience just cause forum bloat and make my job all that much harder while increasing the chances of having good information missed and not passed onto the devs.
The game is so far into development now that most ideas/suggestions have already been taken into account and the game it on it's way to testing with what we already have, so while discussing things like Coliseums is cool, it is more a long term idea that would be considered for after release, so I would encourage you and others to save ideas like this and put them somewhere safe so you can repost them on the new forums at the appropriate time, otherwise all of this information will be archived and one of us (probably me) will have to sift through numerous spam threads/posts to find good info and I wouldn't want this type of idea lost.
This is also why I am so harsh with arguments and judging mechanics before they have even been tested, when it comes time for me to search through these forums when they are archived, I will be skipping arguments and opinions and they may result in good posts being missed, so while we are posting on these development forums, it would be helpful if everyone kept that in mind ;)
Nikademis said:@oneADseven Did you play Vanguard by chance? Are you familiar with how the VG arena in Seawatch Coast functioned?
That was something that came straight to my mind as well, I actually enjoyed that area and it suited being mid level 30-40.
There was also the Teh Harbour arena for actual PvP which was rarely used on the PvE servers, it was fun for around a month until the newness wore off and then it went unvisited. If we were to do something like the Qalia Arena I think it could work very well, but it is something the devs would need to discuss during testing/after launch.
I really like the idea, though :)
<3 a Champion vs challenger system could work.
The player that is able to stay champion for a week gets a very nice prize
other players can come watch the arena fights and place bets.
There is an entrance fee to challenge the champion
If a player does not participate in the fight on the planned day,that entrance fee is lost.
Lack of participation ,to let the other win means the outcome of a battle is declared forfeit. All the money bet will be returned to the mailboxes and your entrance fee is lost
Players would want to remain champion and fight for it because the jackpot is won after someone is able to hold on to the champion title for a week
If only one fight takes place a day and players can actually bet,watch or challenge I don't think the newness will wear off
There would be need of a limit on how much a player can challenge the same champion. never twice in the same month
If there are more players that want to challenge the champion on one day ,they will have to fight over the spot in the smaller practice arena? Or would a guild need to appoint its challenger? We don't want one group of players to claim the whole week for themselves.Not sure what a solution could be
Maybe challenge option only enables on the day itself and it can happen in the morning,afternoon or evening .Always at different time so it is impossible for one group of players to claim the whole week for themselves.Or the challenge spot could be a matter of highest bidder?Highest bidder is not so fair maybe.It could be lovely for the jackpot <3
Nikademis said:@oneADseven Did you play Vanguard by chance? Are you familiar with how the VG arena in Seawatch Coast functioned?
I did play Vanguard, but I don't remember any sort of arena. When was it added to the game? I remember making a really awesome guild castle ... was a huge undertaking. Shortly thereafter though, my entire guild quit. I never had the opportunity to try APW ... I remember looking for updates on it almost every day. My people just couldn't hold out long enough to experience any raid content other than Rahz Inkur, which we did enjoy. Other than that I remember doing some pretty cool bug zone where we would fly around and land on huts of some sort. I remember farming sets of armor from there. I remember a pretty tough group boss in a cave somewhere ... and several overland contested raid bosses which seemed completely broken. Fighting the overworld contested in VG was like watching the dev team kill that giant boss in Amberfaet in pre-prealpha. They didn't do anything. They took forever to kill, and then dropped a "?" ... or a lobster claw, or something, which I can't remember what those were even used for but we never ended up being able to redeem them. So really the only end-game stuff we had to enjoy was Rahz Inkur, the group bug zone, a few other odds and ends places ... oh and Temple of Tehatamani. We farmed the heck out of that zone too, getting jewelery for everybody in our guild. I really did love playing Vanguard. I really wish my guild would have held out long enough to make it to APW and beyond, but we had a vote and the majority wanted to go back to EQ2 and kill Gods.
One thing I will say about VG too though is that I really enjoyed leveling up. I loved the class/race combinations. I loved exploring the world ... the sense of danger. The only reason my guild lost interest is because the game honestly just wasn't ready to be released. We all rushed to max level, of course, exhausted everything to do in the game ... and simply got bored. And it's a real shame. This is one of the main reasons why I am willing to wait several more years for Pantheon if necessary. I want it to be released as soon as possible, just like everyone else, I'm sure. But if waiting an extra year or more will mean the difference of the game being polished, and more end-game content being released ... it's worth the wait. I promise.
Kilsin said:oneADseven said:Kilsin said:oneADseven said:Kilsin said:Please do not post to say that you have edited man, they are deemed spam/double posts and have to be moderated, just update the OP and people can see the update date/time and know that you have added something new. ;)
I apologize, but since starting the thread, some new ideas have blossomed and replaced some of the former. As it were, people would see certain information in one post, only to read further into the thread and see another statement that might contradict or repeat a slightly different version of something they have already read. To clarify, none of the posts that I edited to read as "Edited" were a double post or spam. They were all responses to player questions or a new piece of information. I've been adding to the idea as the thread progressed and felt it would be easier for people to read/understand the idea if everything was condensed into a single unified post. Prior to the edits it may have seemed a bit discombobulated. Can you confirm if the new forum platform will allow us to delete posts? I would gladly have gone in and taken care of legwork myself.
It really doesn't matter man, I can even see that you edited this reply:
"This post was edited by oneADseven at February 4, 2017 12:59 PM AEDT"
So everyone can see it and know that you updated the OP, so please use that method instead of double posting ;)
No, deleting post will only ever be in the control of Admins like myself and it is up to VR Staff to set the rules and moderate to enforce them.
I'm sorry, I should have clarified my question a little better. I didn't mean to ask if people would have access to delete posts in general and partake in moderation, I meant to ask if we could delete our own posts. On a post like this for example, where I am actively seeking input from other players to help fine tune the idea, it would be helpful if I were able to delete my own posts. The option to do so would make it easier for the thread to a tell a story without being discombobulated with different posts that might contradict my intention of adapting the story based on feedback from other players. The way it's set up right now prevents me from being able to do that. It's not a huge deal to me either way, but I understand that you're only one guy and cleaning up an entire forum could be frustrating. Allowing players to delete their own posts would help alleviate some of that burden for you. I don't recall ever purposely double posting, but there was one instance where I made a post and it instantly generated 2 identical posts at the exact same time. That would have been a perfect opportunity for me to be able to delete the accidental double post rather than editing the duplicate to reflect that it was an accidental double post and you needing to come in and remove it. Just an idea.
That is what I was referring to my friend, it opens the door for people to do all kinds of things and then remove the evidence before a VR staff member can see it, so it is not something we will allow, you will rarely find a company that does allow people to delete their own posts in big communities like this.
On a different and more general note (but still relevant)
Just keep in mind these are development forums and the posts here need to be relative, on topic and insightful, excessive posts, arguments, rumours, opinions without evidence/experience just cause forum bloat and make my job all that much harder while increasing the chances of having good information missed and not passed onto the devs.
The game is so far into development now that most ideas/suggestions have already been taken into account and the game it on it's way to testing with what we already have, so while discussing things like Coliseums is cool, it is more a long term idea that would be considered for after release, so I would encourage you and others to save ideas like this and put them somewhere safe so you can repost them on the new forums at the appropriate time, otherwise all of this information will be archived and one of us (probably me) will have to sift through numerous spam threads/posts to find good info and I wouldn't want this type of idea lost.
This is also why I am so harsh with arguments and judging mechanics before they have even been tested, when it comes time for me to search through these forums when they are archived, I will be skipping arguments and opinions and they may result in good posts being missed, so while we are posting on these development forums, it would be helpful if everyone kept that in mind ;)
Thank you for the response. I know that the forums are going to be upgraded eventually and had concerns about some of the threads being lost, so I have been saving the majority of ideas I come up with in my own type of archive system. I understand that at this point in the development phase, the odds of an idea like this getting implemented into the game is slim to nil. I also recognize that there is probably another year or so of development/testing that will take place before this dream-come-true game is finally released. I want to share as many ideas as possible with the community to get people thinking and engaged with the potential for Pantheon. This is the first game I have ever followed this closely while it was in development. I truly feel that as a member on the community forum, I have a voice, and I really want to make the most out of that opportunity. If a single person from VR's development team caught wind of this post and thought that it might have potential, I would consider my effort a success. I don't expect anybody to just drop what they are doing and redirect their focus to new ideas ... that's counter-intuitive. VR already has their own vision of how the game will feel, within the confines of their core features/tenets. I just want to brainstorm with other passionate followers and contribute as much as possible. If that means 1 out of 20 ideas might have enough merit to be considered for future implementation, I'm okay with that.
I know that certain details may seem like bloat ... such as listing names of potential mobs, or some of the bonus objectives. For stuff like that, I'm really just trying to create examples. I want other players to imagine a few of these scenarios and just see that the system has potential. My intention isn't to say that these specific encounters should be added, or this is how the loot system should work, etc. That is not my goal at all ... everything is completely open-ended. All of those finer details are something that the development team would figure out, and balance, relative to everything else in the game. It's impossible to gauge what is appropriate when dealing with a highly conceptual idea like this ... so again, the whole purpose is just to provide examples. Nothing is set in stone. Just one idea of many, to be considered. I would like to ask other players that might respond to this thread to keep all of that in mind as well ... these are just ideas. They don't need to be reverse engineered, run through cross-compatability analysis tests, or anything deep like that. Rather than worrying about why a certain aspect might not work, try to help think of an alternative. Help me build upon the idea and we might have something pretty cool in the works ... and if it eventually makes it's way into the game, you can sit back and smile, knowing that your input made a difference in building something great.
I promised you I would read this, and I had to read it several times. Then I had to consider what I really think of it.
My initial reaction was not negative as much as hesitant. Again it comes back to instancing for me, and how much I dislike it.
I then considered further, because I actually like the idea of a collesium and the possibilities of it being a sort of server-wide invite/ party... So here are my thoughts on changes I'd want to see, but also the possible downsides/ challenges to those.
-- I'd like this if it were actually like a Collesium. By this, I mean an actual audience, where people can watch this battle royale. One thing that's always cool is to be in zone watching as someone takes down Gorenaire, for example. To get to watch a real battle can be almost as much fun as being in it. It also gives somewhat celebrity status to those doing the fight.
-- BUT, the downside... this is to be a "no combat lock" game, which means that if people are allowed in to watch, they'll do their best to KS those who are actually doing the fight. If these fights are to be kept to group level, that will become a possible ugly thing... That means something should be done to protect the fighters, and using collision isn't enough--too often players find a way around collision-based controls. Therefor, it would be encumbent upon the devs to figure out how to prevent KSing or "assistance" to the fighters.
--- I like the concept of the dropped tickets (and I assume that was figured out later, this time I did NOT read the whole thread). That being said, I also like the idea of this being used for GM events. It would be a very easy and positive way to make it so that people can come to massive GM events.
--- A lot could be done with that, in particular. There could be accidents at the Collesium where monsters escape or gladiators have an uprising... A month-long Event could be such a thing. I like it for this, because it lends an opportunity for quick-and-easy ways to bring in content, provided it doesn't last long and doesn't take over the rest of the game.
---- I don't personally like the "hardcore" nature of it, myself. Giving such a limited amount of time for each encounter, with limited tickets, and then limited rewards when you can't even finish it with the super rare ticket that you got... Just not really my bag. I would want people to have multiple opportunities to attempt it before getting a basically "haha, no soup for you!" to the face. That's just me, though. If such a hardcore dynamic existed with it, I wouldn't bother, I'd prefer to go to encounters I can try over and over again and eventually best. Feeling like I'm set up for failure before I even begin would make me just give the ticket away and move on, myself. Of course, when I've been in raiding guilds, it's always been because I like to master things, not to simply 'be challenged' for its own sake, so other people may find this super rewarding instead of ultimately discouraging. Different strokes and all that.
------ I'm just this kind of person... I think there should be "elite combatants" or gladiators there... Perhaps named after Devs. They'd require full-scale raids. OR, these could be the GM events. These elites would stand and "watch" and then at GM events, the GMs could just take them over as avatars and raids would have to face them.
I dunno, I do think it's a great idea, but again, I don't want anything that, in and of itself, begins to dominate the game at ANY level range--including "end game".
This idea is a balance of your other idea, I think. This could be made less a focus and more just a sort of sometimes draw. I don't like the other idea because I think it would become a replacement for actually exploring the environment. This, if implemented in such a way that it's UNUSUAL, could be a really dynamic way to draw crowds and create interesting short-term content. I like short-term, variable content. I don't like static variable content that becomes itself a constant draw away from the world at large.
Thanks Amris! I really appreciate your perspective. Your constructive feedback is inspiring because the idea as a whole seems to feel much cooler now. I have a tendency to get a little tunnel visioned with my ideas but it's never with the intention to say that everything is set in stone. I try to be as descriptive as possible to make an idea pop out, feel tangible, and garner interest. Your input is very valuable and I think when people work together on an idea like this, the development team can observe a much broader perspective on how certain concepts could be perceived. I would love a chance to play in the type of coliseum setting that you have described.
Maybe they can use the existing example of the Colesium in Sancus Seru in EQ1 (down the left) Same concept. But a ticket and face a monster in the collesium. If you won, you had a certain time to rest before you faced the second monster slightly harder. Supposedly it was scaled to your level. The ticket was expensive. 3 monsters total. and If I recal it had a day lockout. Death penalty applied if you died- needed a rez, and you had to run back if you wanted to get your stuff and do somehting else or continue.
I like the idea in theory, but I'll have to digest all the info and compare it to other similar experiences I've had in other games.
One thought I had while reading this, though, was maybe the same general idea could be used in another way.
Let's say raid mobs / raid bosses all have a very small chance at dropping various pieces of various sets. As I mentioned in another thread, these sets--once all the pieces have been gathered--form an item. So, pommel, hilt, blade piece A, blade piece B, and bejeweled scabbard. All of these items are combined into one "legendary sword of some such whatever". This sword is then taken to a specific location (a temple in Thronefast, for example? Or a netural temple somewhere) and presented as a gift to the gods. For whatever reason, this causes a world-wide message "Terminus shakes violently" (but something less stupid, obviously...) and a world boss to spawn. Nobody knows the location of the boss or which boss, so it becomes a race to find it and kill it before other people get to it. A good form of competition. But if you're turning the item in, you obviously have a raid ready to go, porters ready to port, etc... And you have scouts in different areas looking for which world boss has spawned.
I think this would be pretty fun. :D And you could have some of these item sets drop in a horizontal-progression dungeon, as I believe we discussed. I'm not at all saying this would / should replace the coliseum, but I think something like this would be fun and assuage some of the concerns I've seen brought up in this thread.
Just a thought. Not trying to derail the thread! I'll be back once I've given the coliseum some more thought. :P
One of the primary draws to the coliseum (for me at least) is the idea that players could plan around it. Guilds could focus on stockpiling their tickets and then schedule a weekend event where they can combine their resources and spend a day or two messing around in the coliseum. That's basically how BCNM's worked in FFXI although you may have gotten lucky every now and then and end up seeing a group that was looking to spend their tickets but they needed an extra body or two to help them with the battles. When I think about your example, you could still plan for it, but I think a lot of guilds would try and coordinate the event in ways that would alleviate competition as much as possible. I would think it would take a bit of time and effort to procure a full set (especially if they only drop from raid mobs) and the last thing anybody wants (IMO) is to combine their full set of rare trigger pieces only to see some other guild tag the NPC and walk away with the rewards. If it were me, I would schedule the event when the server population was the lowest to increase the likelihood of my guild being able to claim the mob we spawned. I am definitely a fan of competition but when it comes to force-pop mechanics, I think the guild who spawns the bosses should at the very least get first crack at them. If not, you'll see some pretty shady behavior including, but not limited to, guilds trying to plant spies in competing guilds for the sole purpose of pulling the rug from beneath their feet and getting a drop on any rare boss that they intend to spawn. I have seen just about every dirty trick in the book and to be honest I have grown numb to them over the years, almost getting to the point where the expectation is for foul play. I think it's important that the developers go out of their way to avoid encouraging this kind of behavior.
oneADseven said:One of the primary draws to the coliseum (for me at least) is the idea that players could plan around it. Guilds could focus on stockpiling their tickets and then schedule a weekend event where they can combine their resources and spend a day or two messing around in the coliseum. That's basically how BCNM's worked in FFXI although you may have gotten lucky every now and then and end up seeing a group that was looking to spend their tickets but they needed an extra body or two to help them with the battles. When I think about your example, you could still plan for it, but I think a lot of guilds would try and coordinate the event in ways that would alleviate competition as much as possible. I would think it would take a bit of time and effort to procure a full set and the last thing anybody wants (IMO) is to combine their full set of rare trigger pieces only to see some other guild tag the NPC and walk away with the rewards. If it were me, I would schedule the event when the server population was the lowest to increase the likelihood of my guild being able to claim the mob we spawned. I am definitely a fan of competition but when it comes to force-pop mechanics, I think the guild who spawns the bosses should at the very least get first crack at them. If not, you'll see some pretty shady behavior including, but not limited to, guilds trying to plant spies in competing guilds for the sole purpose of pulling the rug from beneath their feet and getting a drop on any rare boss that they spawn. I have seen just about every dirty trick in the book and to be honest I have grown numb to them over the years, almost getting to the point where the expectation is for foul play. I think it's important that the developers go out of their way to avoid encouraging this kind of behavior.
I think it would be cool if maybe the coliseum was only open during the in-game night cycle (this goes good with the "black market" or mafia/syndicate vibe I was shooting for), and possibly only a few days of the week. I wouldn't want to limit it too much as there should be a degree of player flexibility when it comes to planning their events. I do like the idea of making it semi-exclusive though as it would definitely compliment the idea of attracting spectators as they too would be able to plan their attendance around times where there is sure to be plenty of action. I think this would be an ideal location for a sort of "underground" PVP style arena as well as it could attract folks who might not have any tickets. Make players fight while they are drunk or dealing with atmospheric drains/impairments. Allowing wagers could be interesting but that would probably lead to people throwing fights for profit which would be lame.
oneADseven said:I think it would be cool if maybe the coliseum was only open during the in-game night cycle (this goes good with the "black market" or mafia/syndicate vibe I was shooting for), and possibly only a few days of the week. I wouldn't want to limit it too much as there should be a degree of player flexibility when it comes to planning their events. I do like the idea of making it semi-exclusive though as it would definitely compliment the idea of attracting spectators as they too would be able to plan their attendance around times where there is sure to be plenty of action. I think this would be an ideal location for a sort of "underground" PVP style arena as well as it could attract folks who might not have any tickets. Make players fight while they are drunk or dealing with atmospheric drains/impairments. Allowing wagers could be interesting but that would probably lead to people throwing fights for profit which would be lame.
Thanks for putting so much thought into this oneADseven, I personally love the idea and have played through these in any game that offered something similar. I know that when balanced properly it can be rewarding, challenging and a cool change of venue. I'm all about options for advancement.
The Vanguard version was an awesome find, we spent a lot of time there and I'd always wondered why more games didn't offer similar. It was very, very useful gear at the level, it took some work, but was a lot of fun, but even still it wasn't *all* we did. EQ had a version in later years too, though I think that was mainly for levelling a trinket based on how far you made it through the events? GW2 had an event that was similar but on a much smaller scale, stands out among the hundreds of events because that was also fun.
Vanguard actually had a 2nd and similar event just west along the cliffs of New Targonor, although it was more of a ring event than a colliseum but it served a similar function. We'd found an amulet in an abandoned cabin at the top of the cliffs, which we eventually discovered (with insanely few clues or info to go on in game) triggered a ring event at the bottom of the cliffs (ants, lots of terribly powerful ants mostly...). I think I remember that it took a long time for the medallion to respawn? Either way, it was incredibly, incredibly hard and I think it took us a while to finish it - if we ever fully did. Awesome rewards though, but balanced well to how challenging it was and how obscure it was.
I'm totally convinced that there are absolutely ways to include this type of content while keeping it balanced and from simply being the path of least resistance as it's worked many times before.
Kyridel said:Thanks for putting so much thought into this oneADseven, I personally love the idea and have played through these in any game that offered something similar. I know that when balanced properly it can be rewarding, challenging and a cool change of venue. I'm all about options for advancement.
The Vanguard version was an awesome find, we spent a lot of time there and I'd always wondered why more games didn't offer similar. It was very, very useful gear at the level, it took some work, but was a lot of fun, but even still it wasn't *all* we did. EQ had a version in later years too, though I think that was mainly for levelling a trinket based on how far you made it through the events? GW2 had an event that was similar but on a much smaller scale, stands out among the hundreds of events because that was also fun.
Vanguard actually had a 2nd and similar event just west along the cliffs of New Targonor, although it was more of a ring event than a colliseum but it served a similar function. We'd found an amulet in an abandoned cabin at the top of the cliffs, which we eventually discovered (with insanely few clues or info to go on in game) triggered a ring event at the bottom of the cliffs (ants, lots of terribly powerful ants mostly...). I think I remember that it took a long time for the medallion to respawn? Either way, it was incredibly, incredibly hard and I think it took us a while to finish it - if we ever fully did. Awesome rewards though, but balanced well to how challenging it was and how obscure it was.
I'm totally convinced that there are absolutely ways to include this type of content while keeping it balanced and from simply being the path of least resistance as it's worked many times before.
I loved all the hidden bits in Vanguard... I wonder if we will ever see a game with such a grand scope made again.
I would start up a new character right now if the servers were still up and running.
I also enjoyed the colliseum and how it was located on the west coast of Qalia made the scenic trip out there worth it just for the view.
Kiz~
I appreciate the kind words @Kyridel. I'm actually pretty jealous that you have seen something like this in other games! I never played EQ or GW2 and I don't remember something like this being in Vanguard while I played. To be honest, the Coliseum concept was inspired by FF6 on the SNES. I'm not sure if you ever played that game but there are some similarities to it in what I have described here, including the options to wager gear and the black-market theme. I do remember there being some sort of arena in WoW (Gurubash or something) but it felt pretty bland, and that's probably because they had other real arenas going on that you could just queue up for. The main selling point for me is having some sort of hub that pulls people together whether you are participating in the events or just hanging out. I know some people have concerns when it comes to something like that but some of my favorite memories from games like EQOA were Highpass and the Black Swan Inne, Jeuno in FFXI, or even Maj'dul in EQ2. I think a coliseum type setting would be the kind of place that could turn into a fun trade destination similar to the stories I have heard about the EC tunnel in EQ.
One of the concerns I have seen pop up a few times is that people think it would have a "carnival" vibe and I guess my response to that is ... are carnivals always bad? I think it really depends on how things are implemented. The golden saucer from FF7 felt like a real carnival but it made sense in the context of the game world. Terminus is going to be a "world" after all and I like to think that it makes sense for these type of places to exist. Look how much value the human species puts in our entertainment ... surely there could be some carry over into a fantasy world? The main reason these coliseums existed in the real world all those years ago was because of the entertainment value. People love going to the aquarium, the zoo, theme parks or ... wait for it ... carnivals! A lot of people have shared concerns that they don't want the game to feel like a job and I like to think that this sort of content could serve as an escape from the regular grind of the game. When you go to the arcade, or a carnival, you still get that grind feeling when you try to earn a bunch of tickets that can be redeemed for prizes. I think we could capture that same sensation but do it in the context of a fantasy world.
It's obviously very important that you balance things. I expect plenty of great things from VR when it comes to building a living breathing world but when I reflect on my prior MMO experiences, I start to wonder why this sort of content didn't exist. WoW did have the Darkmoon Faire which seemed like a pretty decent attempt of bringing something like this to life but I don't think it was fleshed out nearly as much as it could have been. If you look at the lore I came up with each race would have an ambassador. The coliseum could be a true neutral ground where all races put their differences to the side. It would be a fun way to bring a little bit of culture from each race and forge a melting pot of sorts. Maybe the Halflings make a name for themselves by running a high profile restaurant while the Ogres lead the charge with the arenas. The Dark Myr could manage some sort of luxurious spa while the Dwarves are known for their amazing Brewery. You could allow players to set up their own shops in an area similar to what Thronefast had with all of the stalls. Anyway, those are just a few ideas of how I feel a place like this could feel alive and offer something special. Maybe it would feel sort of like a carnival ... but I don't necessarily view that as a bad thing. Sometimes it's good to take a break and just hang out with other players. There is a high emphasis on social interaction so I think it would be great if there were places in the game world that are intentionally designed to encourage it.
Lots of good discussion so far. Here's my opinion/feedback.
1) I support the concept of a PvE coliseum as a way to present individuals and groups with encounters of increasing difficulty.
Ex: You can register for a solo fight or a group fight (or a raid fight). Defeating a fight increases your "ranking", allowing you to register for more difficult fights.
2) When it comes to rewards, I'm in favor of having some rewards for defeating opponents in the coliseum, both money, experience, and potentially items.
- It would need to be carefully tuned so that a player cannot use it as a sole means of progressing their level or gearing their character. For example, maybe you only get an experience reward the first time you clear a given encounter.
- Any items rewarded would need to be balanced against other items in the world that come from encounters of similar difficulty. The coliseum should not be seen as an "easy" way to gear up. However, awarding some unique-looking items from it would make it a cool point of pride for players.
3) I strongly support the concept of a "coliseum-like" venue (or several venues, realistically, scattered in different places in Terminus) that can be used by players to do player-run events: races, pvp, and whatever else we can imagine.
4) I support the idea of a PvP "coliseum" where players can fight each other FFA, or in tournaments/matches.
5) As a money sink, I support the concept of charging entry fees from players. I also support the concept of allowing players to find "golden tickets" out in the world (in treasure chests, from quests, etc) that would either get them in for free OR allow them to challenge special encounters, but only once per ticket.
My opinions ;)
I think leveraging an arena/coliseum type event as described would be a cool way to add another dimension to the game. I don't see how this would be a replacement for doing "real world" content, merely an extension/horizontal scaling. There are quests like this in EQ and other games, where one person has to collect some items to create a key or whatever that is turned in to start an event(The horror construct in Cazic Thule, for example). I could definitely see people coming to watch the event, making it a social experience as well.
Angrykiz said:Kyridel said:Thanks for putting so much thought into this oneADseven, I personally love the idea and have played through these in any game that offered something similar. I know that when balanced properly it can be rewarding, challenging and a cool change of venue. I'm all about options for advancement.
The Vanguard version was an awesome find, we spent a lot of time there and I'd always wondered why more games didn't offer similar. It was very, very useful gear at the level, it took some work, but was a lot of fun, but even still it wasn't *all* we did. EQ had a version in later years too, though I think that was mainly for levelling a trinket based on how far you made it through the events? GW2 had an event that was similar but on a much smaller scale, stands out among the hundreds of events because that was also fun.
Vanguard actually had a 2nd and similar event just west along the cliffs of New Targonor, although it was more of a ring event than a colliseum but it served a similar function. We'd found an amulet in an abandoned cabin at the top of the cliffs, which we eventually discovered (with insanely few clues or info to go on in game) triggered a ring event at the bottom of the cliffs (ants, lots of terribly powerful ants mostly...). I think I remember that it took a long time for the medallion to respawn? Either way, it was incredibly, incredibly hard and I think it took us a while to finish it - if we ever fully did. Awesome rewards though, but balanced well to how challenging it was and how obscure it was.
I'm totally convinced that there are absolutely ways to include this type of content while keeping it balanced and from simply being the path of least resistance as it's worked many times before.
I loved all the hidden bits in Vanguard... I wonder if we will ever see a game with such a grand scope made again.
I would start up a new character right now if the servers were still up and running.
I also enjoyed the colliseum and how it was located on the west coast of Qalia made the scenic trip out there worth it just for the view.
Kiz~
Me too, I'm sure there's fertile ground for dissecting all of its flaws if someone is so inclined, but it was probably the closest anyone has come to the game that suits me best. It was *vast*. I was in alpha from 2005-2007 and watching the game evolve was one of my most memorable and enjoyable gaming experiences of the last 20 years. I've played launched games for longer that didn't have the impact it did. I still have it installed on a backup hard drive, for posterity.