I have been throwing around few ideas on how to make the game community stronger and more interactive across level tiers and zones.. This seems like an awesome idea in my opinion. Please tell me why i'm wrong :)
Apprentice system where higher level players can take on one or multiple(limited) apprentices and as a result both sides benefit with stat boosts in the game. To make this more clear, lets use some arbitrary examples. Apprentice can only have one master but a master can have 3 apprentices. You can be both a master and an apprentice. Each apprentice gets a bonus of 10% of all master stats and a master gets 10% bonus of apprentices stats if they are both online. And possibly half of the bonus if one of them is not online.
So if a master has 200str and his apprentice has 50str; Apprentice gets +20str(from master) and master gets +5 str from apprentice. Ending up master: 205str and apprentice 70str. Note these are buffs and not permanent stats.
The idea behind this is that it would motivate higher level players to seek out promising "young" players, guide them and help them in their journey. It would benefit a master if their apprentice plays consistently levels up and gets better gear. It would motivate the master to come down once in a while to lover level tiers and help out. It would also motivate him to sponsor his young friend in his guild and bring him to raids, allowing for better opportunities for new players, instead of creating hostile close knit groups of "uber" players.
From the other side, it would motivate young players to seek out higher level players because they would get a huge benefit in return. It would "force" lover level players to give "realistic" type of respect to more accomplished players. Creating almost role playing type of environment and a vibrant community.
Some other details on this system:
- Master can only take on an apprentice that is X+ number of levels below him. 10-20+
- Apprentice will stay an apprentice even if caught up in levels to master to eliminate constant rotation of apprentices and make sure master feels longer term bond to their apprentice. Master should not feel that its a waste of time putting all the effort into an apprentice when soon they will pass their level limit and move on.
- Contrary to above, apprentice will be forced to leave a master if they out level them to maintain some realism.
Mod Edit: Consolidated double post.
I get the feeling even a minor stat boost will make a big impact in this game, especially low to mid level, so I'd like to not see an artificial player abusable buff system in place where if I want to level an alt all I have to do is apprentice to a guild member and get the equiv of an extra 2-4 slots of twink gear. I think the community will evolve as it will, despite artificial mechanics with the intent to force play nice policies between level tiers, and any gimmicks to modify that community evolution will be for naught (due to either player abuse for gain or players loopholing thru to avoid a false community...Nature of the beast).
Just my 2 coppers
Xilshale said:I get the feeling even a minor stat boost will make a big impact in this game, especially low to mid level, so I'd like to not see an artificial player abusable buff system in place where if I want to level an alt all I have to do is apprentice to a guild member and get the equiv of an extra 2-4 slots of twink gear. I think the community will evolve as it will, despite artificial mechanics with the intent to force play nice policies between level tiers, and any gimmicks to modify that community evolution will be for naught (due to either player abuse for gain or players loopholing thru to avoid a false community...Nature of the beast).
Just my 2 coppers
Good points. But you have to keep in mind that each apprentice to a high level player would be like a gear slot. You would not be running around with an empty slot or wear a cloth shirt to help out an alt of a guildy. Each apprentice would be an important part of a game play and "required" for higher level players. You have a limited apprentice slots. You would not just drop your long term apprentice to "twink" your guildies alt for a bit. Also, you cant take on apprentice that is less than 20 levels below you, while you can maintain an apprentice that is same level as you. You would not simply drop your apprentice temporarily to twink others. Its all a question of implementation.
Way to think outside the box. I like the idea of promoting a stronger community and giving the higher end people a reason to talk to/help out lower levels. However, I don't think stat boosts should be the way to do it. Anything having to do with stat gains becomes a "must have" so this would become a mini game for min/maxers. Would have to meet 3 requirements: a) Would play long term and very active b) high end raider (higher stats means bigger bonuses) and c) levels slower than you do.
Maybe if the buff given was only available once a day and 2 hr duration or something similar it would work. Possibly even make it slightly stronger for the apprentice and give a small xp boost for the duration. But having a permanent stat boost is too much
Enitzu said:Way to think outside the box. I like the idea of promoting a stronger community and giving the higher end people a reason to talk to/help out lower levels. However, I don't think stat boosts should be the way to do it. Anything having to do with stat gains becomes a "must have" so this would become a mini game for min/maxers. Would have to meet 3 requirements: a) Would play long term and very active b) high end raider (higher stats means bigger bonuses) and c) levels slower than you do.
Maybe if the buff given was only available once a day and 2 hr duration or something similar it would work. Possibly even make it slightly stronger for the apprentice and give a small xp boost for the duration. But having a permanent stat boost is too much
Agreed. I definitely wasn't trying to imply that stat boosts is a core requirement as a reward. Just an example to make the system clear. Reward system could be situational or random. As long as there is enough reward to motivate the type of behavior that I described on both sides.
I'm conflicted. It's a cool idea and I want to see these kind of social interactions happen, but I prefer that they arise naturally rather than be "institutionalized" with baked-in mechanics. I think on balance I'd rather not see this be a formalized system that conveys gameplay benefits. However, I think it would be pretty rad if it was purely a flavor thing where you could, say, allow you to add mentor and mentee titles or flashes to your name and/or armor. I would love to have a mentee that wore my crest on his cloke for example.
Nice idea, but I agree that the stat thing would be too much. What if you could only have a character of the same class as your master or apprentice, and master characters have a training interface for their apprentices? You happen to meet your master out in the field after recently leveling and you can learn your new spells/abilities from him rather than returning home. I think that would be pretty sweet, but not sure how useful it would really end up being.
In EQ2, you can get married. When you and your spouse are both logged in, you get a stat bonus. Basically, this just sold more accounts because everyone wanted to have their spouse on at all times.
I would see this happening again with this system.
I can see this getting abused by having four accounts with 3 alt "apprentices" parked in game so your main gets boosts (be it stat boosts, xp boosts, whatever) and this being something required by high-end raiding groups; I can see raiding guilds with half of their "members" being alt accounts for use as apprentices to higher level players. While I like the idea of having a master/apprentice of the same class that can teach the apprentice skills/spells/abilities that the master already knows, I think that any kind of "boost" system to either the master or apprentice could easily be abused.
As with all things pros and cons have to be weighted. Not all people are the same and some WILL prefer buying 4 different accounts and 4 different computers and than level and gear all their characters just to get that stat bonus. "Abuser" in this case will be contributing to the game positively in other ways (financially) due to this system. On the other hand majority will find this counterproductive and will be engaged in community building by using the system the way it was intended. I cant imagine most will find that they will be able to level and gear 3+ alts better than someone who plays their character as main and will find that leveling/gearing time more productive than just accepting someone’s apprenticeship request and helping them out once in a while to make sure they do well.
100% of all suggestions that dont meet cookie cutter tried and proved mmo features are met with: "It will be abused". Definitely all features will be abused. Just like killing mobs for gear and exp is abuse in the same sense. Getting benefit from something is not an abuse. Its all a question of balance. One should only ask a question: "Does this overall contribute positively to the game or negatively?"
I love you Bazgrim you glorious poster! Alot of these concerns have been addressed with specifics already. I think it's wonderful that the forum community is filled with people with ideas and suggestions - but I think it's very important to temper expectations and dreams with heavy doses of reality. Everyone has ideas when they see a game that excites them, but not everyone has ever shipped a game proving those ideas to be fantastic.
Bazgrim said:They have already said there will be Mentoring and Guide systems in the game that sound very similar to what you're suggesting. However, I think the bonus to stats would be OP. But regardless, rest assured there are already plans to have something like this in game :)
Verdic said:I love you Bazgrim you glorious poster! Alot of these concerns have been addressed with specifics already. I think it's wonderful that the forum community is filled with people with ideas and suggestions - but I think it's very important to temper expectations and dreams with heavy doses of reality. Everyone has ideas when they see a game that excites them, but not everyone has ever shipped a game proving those ideas to be fantastic.
Bazgrim said:They have already said there will be Mentoring and Guide systems in the game that sound very similar to what you're suggesting. However, I think the bonus to stats would be OP. But regardless, rest assured there are already plans to have something like this in game :)
Lol thanks, I agree wholeheartedly. I try to be the voice of reason and realism when I can without being a total buzzkill. It's a very fine line :P Especially with people that think their ideas are way more original than they actually are. But we've all been there :)
Bazgrim said:Lol thanks, I agree wholeheartedly. I try to be the voice of reason and realism when I can without being a total buzzkill. It's a very fine line :P Especially with people that think their ideas are way more original than they actually are. But we've all been there :)
Thanks Bazgrim. Can you please let me know which mmos have this implemented? Just curious to check it out. Or are you simply talking about the consept of "Apprentice System"? Never thought that was in any way original.. pretty ancient idea.
No worries man. I wasn't even necessarily directed at you. This is far from the worst idea I've read here :P
Anyway, I may have misunderstood slightly, because I was mostly referring to the apprentice system in general. I don't know of a game that specifically uses stat boosts (as you were suggesting) as an incentive for taking part in an Apprentice/Mentor program (the terms are interchangeable in this case). Almost every MMO apprentice program uses xp, gold, or cosmetic items as a reward. As others have pointed out, if stats are involved, it would undoubtedly become a "must have" for high-end raiders.. and pretty much anyone for that matter. But especially with top tier raiders, I can pretty much guarantee they won't even care to actually invest time or resources in their apprentice - they will only do the absolute minimum in order to get the stats. And that's no fun for the apprentice. Plus it pressures some top tier raiders to do something that they don't want to do. And that is to be avoided. XP or gold are much more benign ways to encourage apprenticeship. It's tough to figure out a solution that is both rewarding and not OP because everyone approaches games with different intentions. But to be fair, your first post did invite people to tell you why you were wrong :P
Either way, all I was saying earlier is that we already know for sure that there will be a full-fledged Mentor system in Pantheon. The goals of which are very similar to what you were talking about - building a sense of bonding and community, maintaining interactions between high and low lvl players, etc. Brad said that there will be rewards for partaking in it, but has not specified what those rewards would be. He also mentioned plans to have a neat tool that allow you to sign up to be a Mentor and include your preferred play time, class, playstyle, etc. so you can be matched with someone similar to you. (Brad starts to explain it around the 2:38:00 mark of the December Twitch stream if you wanna hear for yourself)